Dear List, Nothing should be discounted. Everything should be considered. I've found a very important piece of factual information in the Horn Papers. It's the only resource I've found so far for this piece of information. So, I'm certainly not discounting them. They're a reference document. Period. For those of us who lives thousands of miles away, they're a valuable reference document. Just like everything else. Not everything is 100 percent. Look at the census records! My families names are spelled a zillion different ways, depending on the literacy of the census taker! One time they're white, another time mulatto, and another time nothing! Hello? Their skin color didn't change between census'! Also, Wikipedia should be examined closely too. FYI. Wikipedia is NEVER allowed to be used as a primary reference for students (i.e., high school or college). My 2 cents + some change! Carole Clarke --- On Thu, 2/26/09, rslater463@aol.com <rslater463@aol.com> wrote: > From: rslater463@aol.com <rslater463@aol.com> > Subject: Re: [PAGRE] Cornerstone Clues > To: pagreene@rootsweb.com > Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009, 9:59 AM > To say that the first two volumes of The Horn Papers?in > their entirety are pure fabrication (not what you are saying > Judy, but what some claim) is a reckless statement.? I > believe that if one were to compare the information to the > records, some of?it in regard to families and their > relationships?proves to be?true.? Some of?the?work was?pure > hogwash but then a lot of people in area were totally > embarrassed at having bought into the Horn Papers without > taking a close look at them.? It was easier to reject the > whole and let the embarrassment die down than to sort > through the information and separate fact from fiction.? > Perhaps if the plates had been made of gold, like those > found 100 years earlier on which en entire religion is > based, Mr. Horn would have had more credibility. And of > course Mr. Horn died before they could get him into court. > > I have? family stories handed down in writing?that parts of > are pure fiction, but if I didn't follow the clues to > separate out what is fact I would not have taken my research > to the place it is today. > > Any written?history is NOT a primary source but it looks as > if the community at that time did what a lot of researchers > do today - take everything they see in writing as fact and > never proof the research supposedly done by others. > Just my 2-cents. > > Jan > > -----Original Message----- > From: J.A. Florian <cageycat@gmail.com> > To: Bill <bocsi505@windstream.net> > Cc: PAGREENE-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 8:47 am > Subject: Re: [PAGRE] Cornerstone Clues > > > > Often people think of "the maps" when they speak > of the Horn Papers. The > maps *are* considered historically accurate, based on > documents. > > But, there are 3 volumes to the Horn Papers. A writer at > "Wikipedia" > explains the problem with the first 2 volumes::: > > (Quoted Material below) > >From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia > Jump to: navigation, search > The Horn Papers were a genealogical hoax consisting of > forged historical > records pertaining to the northeastern United States for > the period from > 1765 to 1795. They were published by William F. Horn of > Topeka, Kansas > between 1933 and 1936, and presented as a transcription of > documents of his > great-great-great grandfather, Jacob Horn (died 1778), and > other members of > the Horn family. > > The Horn Papers first appeared publicly in 1932 in letters > sent from Topeka > to the editors of the Washington, Pennsylvania Observer and > the Waynesburg, > Pennsylvania Democrat-Messenger in which their author > claimed to possess > important historical documents relating to the area. > > >From 1933 to 1936 the newspapers printed excerpts from > Horn's manuscripts > and diaries. Horn even moved to his ancestral home of > Waynesburg and through > speeches became well known as an historical expert. > > Material in the papers included diaries, Virginia court > records, and maps. > They were notable for their great level of detail, > especially concerning the > lives of the common people. Because the papers appeared to > supply > information about famous historical figures and to fill > gaps in existing > historical knowledge, they were received enthusiastically > despite some > apparent contradictions. > > Although a minority opposed William Horn, on August 11, > 1936 his claims > appeared to have been corroborated when he announced that > he had dug up two > lead plates dated 1795 in a location predicted by the > papers. > > The apparent find increased the confidence of members of > the Greene County, > Pennsylvania Historical Society, who sponsored the > reissuing of the papers > in book form. In 1945 the papers were published as a > three-volume collectio > n > entitled The Horn Papers: Early Western Movement on the > Monongahela and > Upper Ohio, 1765-1795. > > A year later, a report by a committee of representatives of > historical > societies from the region concluded in The William and Mary > Quarterly that > the first two volumes were substantially hoaxes. > > There is no conclusive explanation why W. F. Horn devoted > such a great > effort to the forgeries. > > [edit] References > Horn, W. F. [ed.] (1945), The Horn Papers: Early Western > Movement on the > Monongahela and Upper Ohio, 1765-1795, 3 vols. > Middleton, Arthur Pierce & Adair, Douglass (Oct., > 1947). The Mystery of the > Horn Papers. The William and Mary Quarterly, 3rd Ser., Vol. > 4, No. 4. pp. > 409-445. > [edit] External links > Genealogical Hoax - The Horn Papers > Retrieved from > "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horn_Papers" > (End of Quoted Material) > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Bill > <bocsi505@windstream.net> wrote: > > > I do not have the latest Cornerstone Clues as I loaned > my copy so I am not > > sure what was referenced about the Horn Papers. > > > > Being my early Greene County family were slaves, I > find the Horn Papers > > quite interesting for they add to the history of > Greene County Slavery > > rather than take from it. > > > > I have been in Cornerstone when a researcher would ask > about the Horn > > Papers and I would hear a volunteer urging caution > when reading the Horn > > Papers... not to believe all they say. > > > > I have also read books by Greene County researchers > regarding Slavery that > > offer no positive proof, only stories and rumors so > with those written > > books, I, and others, must be "cautious" > when reading them. For example, my > > GGG Grandfather is "rumored" to have earned > his freedom by digging 5000 > > bushels of coal for his master. However, Document > Books at the Greene > > County Courthouse show no "Deed of > Manumission" for my GGG Grandfather. > > > > I trust some of what the Horn Papers say..some. But > not to be able to read > > them, would be a loss. > > > > Bill Davison > > > > > > > > -- > > -- > > WASHINGTON COUNTY PA WEBSITES::: > > http://freepages.misc. > rootsweb.com/~florian/ > > Coordinator of the Washington County PAGenWeb: > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~pawashin/ > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PAGREENE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of > the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PAGREENE-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message