If you Google the Horn Papers you will find the William and Mary Quarterly article. ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.A. Florian" <cageycat@gmail.com> To: <rslater463@aol.com> Cc: <pagreene@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [PAGRE] Cornerstone Clues > Before *I* end up feeling personally attacked, I only wanted to present an > explanation of why researchers will often hear admonitions against Horn > from > librarians, societies, and genealogists. It's not MY statements, but as > Bill pointed out, the sentiment is repeated and repeated by genealogists > and > certified genealogists (and volunteer genealogists). > > The ONLY reason I used Wiki was because it described "the problem" in a > few > short paragraphs AND gave the source for the criticisms of Horn, which > appeared in: > > Middleton, Arthur Pierce & Adair, Douglass (Oct., 1947). The Mystery of > the > Horn Papers. The William and Mary Quarterly, 3rd Ser., Vol. 4, No. 4. pp. > 409-445. (This was at the end of the Wiki article) > > I didn't feel like writing it ALL out in my own words, and the Wiki > article > for this purpose was on target. Uhm.....just as people point out not to > throw out all of Horn, then why would anyone also throw out all of Wiki? > Some things in Wiki are perfectly okay, but like anything, you have to > know > how to research and cross-check. > > So if you don't believe Wiki on this "report" of the critism, do your own > research. If you have questions about Horn or doubt that the critisms are > valid and widespread, then call Citizens Library Washington (Research > Librarian); Carnegie Library (Research Librarian); Washington Co or Greene > Co Historical Societies; or write to the The William and Mary Quarterly > contributor cited above and ask questions! > > But, I will say again, Horn is NOT considered historically valid in the > first 2 volumes. Historically valid is the key point. When researchers > back then looked at his work, dissected his work, and tried to find > secondary sources, they concluded his writing was fiction. (I'm just > reporting what I have read over the last 30 years of my own research.) > > Thank you for hearing my statements. > > Judy > > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 12:59 PM, <rslater463@aol.com> wrote: > >> To say that the first two volumes of The Horn Papers?in their entirety >> are >> pure fabrication (not what you are saying Judy, but what some claim) is a >> reckless statement.? I believe that if one were to compare the >> information >> to the records, some of?it in regard to families and their >> relationships?proves to be?true.? Some of?the?work was?pure hogwash but >> then >> a lot of people in area were totally embarrassed at having bought into >> the >> Horn Papers without taking a close look at them.? It was easier to reject >> the whole and let the embarrassment die down than to sort through the >> information and separate fact from fiction.? Perhaps if the plates had >> been >> made of gold, like those found 100 years earlier on which en entire >> religion >> is based, Mr. Horn would have had more credibility. And of course Mr. >> Horn >> died before they could get him into court. >> >> I have? family stories handed down in writing?that parts of are pure >> fiction, but if I didn't follow the clues to separate out what is fact I >> would not have taken my research to the place it is today. >> >> Any written?history is NOT a primary source but it looks as if the >> community at that time did what a lot of researchers do today - take >> everything they see in writing as fact and never proof the research >> supposedly done by others. >> Just my 2-cents. >> >> Jan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: J.A. Florian <cageycat@gmail.com> >> To: Bill <bocsi505@windstream.net> >> Cc: PAGREENE-L@rootsweb.com >> Sent: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 8:47 am >> Subject: Re: [PAGRE] Cornerstone Clues >> >> >> >> Often people think of "the maps" when they speak of the Horn Papers. The >> maps *are* considered historically accurate, based on documents. >> >> But, there are 3 volumes to the Horn Papers. A writer at "Wikipedia" >> explains the problem with the first 2 volumes::: >> >> (Quoted Material below) >> >From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia >> Jump to: navigation, search >> The Horn Papers were a genealogical hoax consisting of forged historical >> records pertaining to the northeastern United States for the period from >> 1765 to 1795. They were published by William F. Horn of Topeka, Kansas >> between 1933 and 1936, and presented as a transcription of documents of >> his >> great-great-great grandfather, Jacob Horn (died 1778), and other members >> of >> the Horn family. >> >> The Horn Papers first appeared publicly in 1932 in letters sent from >> Topeka >> to the editors of the Washington, Pennsylvania Observer and the >> Waynesburg, >> Pennsylvania Democrat-Messenger in which their author claimed to possess >> important historical documents relating to the area. >> >> >From 1933 to 1936 the newspapers printed excerpts from Horn's >> >manuscripts >> and diaries. Horn even moved to his ancestral home of Waynesburg and >> through >> speeches became well known as an historical expert. >> >> Material in the papers included diaries, Virginia court records, and >> maps. >> They were notable for their great level of detail, especially concerning >> the >> lives of the common people. Because the papers appeared to supply >> information about famous historical figures and to fill gaps in existing >> historical knowledge, they were received enthusiastically despite some >> apparent contradictions. >> >> Although a minority opposed William Horn, on August 11, 1936 his claims >> appeared to have been corroborated when he announced that he had dug up >> two >> lead plates dated 1795 in a location predicted by the papers. >> >> The apparent find increased the confidence of members of the Greene >> County, >> Pennsylvania Historical Society, who sponsored the reissuing of the >> papers >> in book form. In 1945 the papers were published as a three-volume >> collectio >> n >> entitled The Horn Papers: Early Western Movement on the Monongahela and >> Upper Ohio, 1765-1795. >> >> A year later, a report by a committee of representatives of historical >> societies from the region concluded in The William and Mary Quarterly >> that >> the first two volumes were substantially hoaxes. >> >> There is no conclusive explanation why W. F. Horn devoted such a great >> effort to the forgeries. >> >> [edit] References >> Horn, W. F. [ed.] (1945), The Horn Papers: Early Western Movement on the >> Monongahela and Upper Ohio, 1765-1795, 3 vols. >> Middleton, Arthur Pierce & Adair, Douglass (Oct., 1947). The Mystery of >> the >> Horn Papers. The William and Mary Quarterly, 3rd Ser., Vol. 4, No. 4. pp. >> 409-445. >> [edit] External links >> Genealogical Hoax - The Horn Papers >> Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horn_Papers" >> (End of Quoted Material) >> >> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Bill <bocsi505@windstream.net> wrote: >> >> > I do not have the latest Cornerstone Clues as I loaned my copy so I am >> not >> > sure what was referenced about the Horn Papers. >> > >> > Being my early Greene County family were slaves, I find the Horn Papers >> > quite interesting for they add to the history of Greene County Slavery >> > rather than take from it. >> > >> > I have been in Cornerstone when a researcher would ask about the Horn >> > Papers and I would hear a volunteer urging caution when reading the >> > Horn >> > Papers... not to believe all they say. >> > >> > I have also read books by Greene County researchers regarding Slavery >> that >> > offer no positive proof, only stories and rumors so with those written >> > books, I, and others, must be "cautious" when reading them. For >> > example, >> my >> > GGG Grandfather is "rumored" to have earned his freedom by digging 5000 >> > bushels of coal for his master. However, Document Books at the Greene >> > County Courthouse show no "Deed of Manumission" for my GGG Grandfather. >> > >> > I trust some of what the Horn Papers say..some. But not to be able to >> read >> > them, would be a loss. >> > >> > Bill Davison >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > -- >> > WASHINGTON COUNTY PA WEBSITES::: >> > http://freepages.misc. >> rootsweb.com/~florian/ >> > Coordinator of the Washington County PAGenWeb: >> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~pawashin/ >> > >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> PAGREENE-request@rootsweb.com >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the >> body >> of >> the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> PAGREENE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > -- > -- > WASHINGTON COUNTY PA WEBSITES::: > http://freepages.misc.rootsweb.com/~florian/ > Coordinator of the Washington County PAGenWeb: > http://www.rootsweb.com/~pawashin/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PAGREENE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >