I was not irritated by your message; but thought it confusing and incorrect because of misunderstandings (even in what you wrote below). All Page/Paige males do not have the same Y-DNA markers or even belong to the same Y-haplogroup (A through R1b)! - see [1]http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/~mcdonald/WorldHaplogroupsMaps.pdf This is true even without paternal irregularities. When I started the Y-DNA Project for Pages several years ago (and three other surnames), it was with the presumption (thesis) that all male Pages were from the same family within recorded history (i.e., shared a common male Page ancestor whose name was either Page, Paige, or le Page). After 100+ males with the surname Page were Y-DNA tested and 25 of their markers were compared, I disproved the thesis and found that most fell into one of about fifteen Page Family Lines which I have designated A through O. Those who are in a specific group with close matches (at least 23 out of 25 Y-DYS markers are in fact cousins who share a common male ancestor somewhere and sometime back in recorded history. Those within the same haplogroup (A through share a common male ancestor back before recorded history about 10,000 years ago. There were a few whose surname was not Page, who had 25 Y-DNA markers that were identical, or closely matched those in one of my designated Page Family lines. One such person was a black from Gloucester Co., VA, whose Negro grandmother way back had given birth to a child fathered by a male Page from that Family Line that lived in that county for several generations (which I have determined and traced back in England to the 1500s). I other cases we found that there were a few males with the Page surname who did not fit into any of the identified Page Family Lines. They had been adopted and therefore acquired the Page surname. In some cases we were even find out in which generation the adoption occurred. Lets start from the beginning: ALL males started from one male (normally referred to as Adam) who has a very small part of his nuclear DNA called Y-Chromosome DNA which determines the sex of his offspring and is passed down only to his son(s). Occasionally some of the DYS values mutate so that the numerical values for a few markers change. (I have two brothers-in-law who have a difference in one DYS marker out of 25. Because there are only two to compare I don't know who has the mutated DYS marker, or when or why it occurred. The science of experts selecting the best set of DYS markers to test in the package of 12, 25, 37,or 64 markers that mutate often to is the key to good and useful Y-DNA results. Not all firms that sell Y-DNA test kits offer the same markers, and not all process them in an expert fashion! In summary, testing a males Y-DNA is useful only if the results are compared with a set of others known to have the same surname. If they fall into the set (Page Family Line) they are cousins who share a common male ancestor by that name somewhere and sometime back in recorded history. They can, and do, share family history and increase their tested markers up to 67 to try and determine exactly who is their common male Page ancestor. I recommend you view the links on Y-DNA testing and definitions on my website where you can also learn more about the Page Family Lines and the origin of the name. [2]www.PageY-DNA.ORG GWP Page Y-DNA Project Administrator ______________ At 12:32 PM 12/13/2008, you wrote: George, Irritating you was not my goal. Yes, non-paternity in this case means non-Page. Perhaps I should have been more specific. I thought the term non-paternity would be self explanatory. What I meant by non-paternity and adoption was - a couple adopts a boy that is not a Page, is raised as a Page, passes along his genetic code. However, generations later his descendants have no idea that he was adopted thus not carrying the Page DNA. Thus their confusion about not matching others Page's. What I meant by non-Page union was - the wife goes off and has sex with a man that is not her Page husband (not his brother or any other Page relative) and produces a child from that union, the offspring is not a Page but is raised as one without the family knowing that the offspring is not a genetic Page, then his offspring also have no idea that they are not actually Page offspring, and generations later they have no idea why they do not match other Page DNA. Perhaps you missed the first sentence of my e-mail, "DNA can really assist greatly with traditional genealogical research! :-)" I am all for DNA analysis - no need to defend it to me, nor was I questioning its validity. I am actually very well versed in it and have a lot of experience with it. I was merely trying to get folks to think outside the box in cases where their Page ancestry is well documented but they still don't see a genetic connection. Sorry for your negative take on my initial e-mail. Perhaps this e-mail clears up what I was trying to convey. Sheila **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (htt p://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom0000001 0) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PAGE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message References 1. http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/~mcdonald/WorldHaplogroupsMaps.pdf 2. http://www.PageY-DNA.ORG/