Fred, You need to look at it this way ---------- In PAF each/any set of parents/marriage partners can have children - it is the couple (parents) that can have biological or adopted children Any one parent can be both one of the biological parents and one of the adopted parents. The duality of relationship for this particular parent is apparent when viewing the child's other parents and this parent shows up as a partner in the biological parents and as a partner in the adopted parents. Once you get your mind around this way of working - it really isn't a problem. Regards, Stewart -----Original Message----- From: HoutsRFred@aol.com [mailto:HoutsRFred@aol.com] Sent: 05 June 2005 13:36 To: PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PAF-5] Re: Biological/Adopted ALAN -- Sorry, but I'm not following you. I just put a sample couple in my d.b. to use for this, plus a "new" father by the mother's remarriage. Then I added a child, Jimmy, to original biological parents. When I highlight Jimmy, thinking I'm going to add him as an adoptive child of his step-father, it displays in the "Add Parent" window the ORIGINAL biological parents for Jimmy. I don't know how to get from there to the new father (step-father). He is not displayed and once I'm at this point I can select type of parents (step, adoptive etc.) but I can't go from that point to the new father as the biological parents (both) are displayed at this point. Can't get from point A to point B, I guess. Can you make it plainer for a dummy like me? Thanks for step-by-step. Keep in mind that we want this to end up showing that Jimmy is the adopted child of ONLY the one parent . . . not both, for after all, he is the natural child of one of them. --Fred Houts, Brooklyn Center MN In a message dated 6/4/2005 10:03:07 P.M. Central Daylight Time, alanjones10@cox.net writes: Let say you have the biological family in PAF, and then the parents divorce or one dies, and the other remarried. You add the person's new spouse. THEN go to the child of the biological parents highlight the child, click on ADD .... OTHER PARENTS.... Select the new step/adoptive parent. In this say window where you select the person, you select the type of parent adoptive, guardian, etc. ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List Search http://searches2.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=PAF-5-USERS

Stewart, I hate to disagree with you, but a natural parent cannot also be an adoptive parent of their natural child. Under no adoption law that I'm aware of, is there a requirement to, or provision for, the natural parent to go through the adoption process required for a second spouse to adopt the child of his spouse and another natural parent. The natural parent's name may appear in the adoption records and it may require that parent's consent to the adoption, but the natural parent is not an adopter. Dick Cazier Lakewood, Colorado USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stewart Millar" <sm999@tiscali.co.uk> To: <PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 7:10 AM Subject: RE: [PAF-5] Re: Biological/Adopted > > Fred, > > You need to look at it this way ---------- > > In PAF each/any set of parents/marriage partners can have children - it is > the couple (parents) that can have biological or adopted children > > Any one parent can be both one of the biological parents and one of the > adopted parents. > > The duality of relationship for this particular parent is apparent when > viewing the child's other parents and this parent shows up as a partner in > the biological parents and as a partner in the adopted parents. > > Once you get your mind around this way of working - it really isn't a > problem. > > Regards, > > Stewart > > > -----Original Message----- > From: HoutsRFred@aol.com [mailto:HoutsRFred@aol.com] > Sent: 05 June 2005 13:36 > To: PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PAF-5] Re: Biological/Adopted > > > ALAN -- Sorry, but I'm not following you. I just put a sample couple in > my > > d.b. to use for this, plus a "new" father by the mother's remarriage. > Then > I added a child, Jimmy, to original biological parents. When I > highlight > Jimmy, thinking I'm going to add him as an adoptive child of his > step-father, > it displays in the "Add Parent" window the ORIGINAL biological parents > for > Jimmy. I don't know how to get from there to the new father > (step-father). > He is not displayed and once I'm at this point I can select type of > parents > > (step, adoptive etc.) but I can't go from that point to the new father as > the > biological parents (both) are displayed at this point. Can't get from > point > A to point B, I guess. Can you make it plainer for a dummy like me? > Thanks for step-by-step. Keep in mind that we want this to end up > showing > that > Jimmy is the adopted child of ONLY the one parent . . . not both, for > after > > all, he is the natural child of one of them. --Fred Houts, Brooklyn > Center > MN > > In a message dated 6/4/2005 10:03:07 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > alanjones10@cox.net writes: > > Let say you have the biological family in PAF, and then the parents > divorce or one dies, and the other remarried. You add the person's new > spouse. THEN go to the child of the biological parents highlight the > child, click on > ADD .... OTHER PARENTS.... Select the new step/adoptive parent. In > this say window where you select the person, you select the type of > parent adoptive, guardian, etc. > > > > > > > ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== > PAF-5-USERS Mailing List Search > http://searches2.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=PAF-5-USERS > > > > > ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== > AVG Anti-Virus Users > Disable the 'Certify outgoing messages' option via the E-mail Scanner tab. > >

The key to understanding this problem we are having in showing strictly correct parental relationships within the program PAF, is that within this program an individual CAN NOT have any relationship to any children OR to any parent WITHOUT ALSO BEING TIED TO A MARRIAGE. It is just impossible to do in this program, PAF (ver.5). And if you think about that for one moment, you will better understand the problem and the limitations of this software. For whatever motivation, it's the way the software was written. So the individual CAN have a single parent, whether biological, adopted or guardian but in every single case that parent, as far as PAF the software program is concerned, IS DEFINITELY MARRIED! Even if that person is only married to UNKNOWN in the "software" created marriage! Once a program user realizes and accepts that from PAF's "point of view" NO child-parent/parent-child relationship can exist or be entered WITHOUT also a marriage, then that user can work with the limitation imposed by that. Therefore within PAF the individual actually has a relationship to the Marriage, and so if the individual has ANY form of parental relationship to one person in a marriage, he MUST ALSO HAVE THE SAME parental relationship to the other person in that marriage. That is just a limitation of this software. Don't forget PAF is very much connected to LDS, a religion which has it's doctrines and philosophies and I very much suspect the decision was made to write the software this way based on some of those views. However, oddly enough, PAF DOES allow an individual to have an unlimited number of parents, but still each is always married, even if only to the polygamous UNKNOWN! And even more oddly still, within PAF an individual can simultaneously have multiple instances of every type of parent, EVEN BIOLOGICAL! The program will alert you that you have created more than one, two, three, four or more biological parent links, but it will still allow you do it. So in short, if it's your goal to show ALL children, of every type of parent-child relationship, on the single Family View Screen, then each of those children can only HAVE and only SHOW the one type of relationship to that "marriage" and therefore to both parents connected by that marriage. On the Family View Screen, for each individual child under the heading Parent Link, there will either be a blank (implying a biological relationship) or the word Adopted or the word Guardian, but always it will be the relationship to the marriage and thus to both individuals connected by that marriage. Otherwise, to be strictly accurate, one would have to create multiple instances of parents for the child, each married to UNKNOWN, and NOT connect the child to even the marriage of his biological parent to his adopted parent! And of course, then he definitely won't show on the family screen of that marriage but rather must be viewed on one or the other Parent married to UNKNOWN screens! Hope this helps, John