Eugene, The discussion on RINs has been interesting and useful, but I'm not sure it answered you question. If you want to find out which RINs are unused, go to your Find Individual list (the binocular icon on your task bar) and then change the Sort from alphabetical to RIN. That will list everyone in RIN order from # 1 to however many you have. You can then scroll down through the list and see which RINs have no name attached to them. The most common reasons for having blank RINs is you have either deleted some individuals or have merged them with someone else. The RIN of those people remain in the system. As far as reusing the unused RINs, PAF automatically does it for you. When you enter a new individual, if you have the unused RINs, the new person is automatically assigned the largest RIN # that is unused. If you actually have over 3,000 unused RINs, it's going to take quite a while to use them up. As others have said, RINs as well as MRINs, really have no meaning, other than an arbitrary # assigned by the program to give it the capability to link individuals. If you just want to get rid of the unused #s, use the export-import of gedcoms that was suggested. But I don't really see any value of doing it, based on what the #s represent. One person suggested he used them to clear up goofs he made in linking children to the wrong parents (a sibling as a child of another sibling, rather than a child of their parents. If you catch it, jot down the RIN of the person with the wrong linkage and correct as suggested. I also use it to merge people that I find need to be merged. I jot down the RIN of both names and use the individual Match and Merge function rather than the mass search Match and Merge. This also often turns up other needed merges, such as duplication of wives and parents, which will show up on the merge screens. It also then gives a clue about possible duplication of children, which should be checked from the family screen and merged again by jotting down the matching RIN #s and merging them. I used to use RIN to identify people that I know are the same, but go by different names, like children from one marriage who are adopted by a 2nd spouse or by grandparents, aunts, uncles etc. I put a reference in the Notes of each that # 999999 is the same person as # 000 and then explain why the are the same. But I did it with the full knowledge that if I sent a gedcom including those people to someone the Notes reference is useless and confusing. I'm now trying to find and correct those entries by merging them and showing both surnames, then explaining the situation in the Notes. Dick Cazier Lakewood, Colorado USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "H. Eugene McInturff" <hemack@lynxconnect.com> To: <PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 9:43 AM Subject: [PAF-5] RIN's > There is a discrepancy of over 3000 count between the numerical sort of my > data base and the number of individuals when I export a GEDCOM. Would > someone enlighten advise me how to find and use these unused RIN's? > Thanks........Eugene > > > ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== > RootsWeb's WorldConnect Project: > Connecting the World One GEDCOM at a Time > http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/ > >

Those simple manipulations I also use, but in terms of a permanent number connection they have no use and one should use the Custom ID if a form of number identification is desired. Past discussions have addressed different ways to form a Custom ID and a lot depends on the user's desires. Bill > I don't agree with some of this discussion about the usefulness of RINs. I > find them extremely helpful when I do stupid things like attaching a child > to the last child I entered. All I have to do is remember the RIN, detach > the newest child from his brother/sister and reattach it to the parent. > This is one instance that I can immediately think of which demonistrates > the way RINs can be used. I'm sure there are others. > > Pat >

I don't agree with some of this discussion about the usefulness of RINs. I find them extremely helpful when I do stupid things like attaching a child to the last child I entered. All I have to do is remember the RIN, detach the newest child from his brother/sister and reattach it to the parent. This is one instance that I can immediately think of which demonistrates the way RINs can be used. I'm sure there are others. Pat At 12:52 PM 6/23/2005, Stewart Millar wrote: >Eugene, > >Personally - I would never recommend using RIN numbers for any significant >purpose - they provide the internal linkages for the programming to maintain >links and relationships - the fact that there are gaps in the sequence is >immaterial to the database and the "user" use of PAF. > >The true count is of course what is on your gedcom and should agree with the >stats displayed on the File > Properties window and should equal the record >count less the deleted records on the properties window. > >For the pedantically minded - RIN's can be re-ordered in two main ways: > >(1) - Re-import your gedcom file into a new database - RIN's will be >assigned from #1 in the sequence of loading from the gedcom file. > >(2) - For the really pedantic - PAFInsight (from Ohana Software) provides >features to re-number individual records or sequentially renumber groups of >records. > >But I really cannot think why any one should bother - no significance >external to PAF internal programming should ever be attached to RIN (or MRIN >numbers). >(now that's likely to start a debate!) > >Regards, >Stewart > > >-----Original Message----- >From: H. Eugene McInturff [mailto:hemack@lynxconnect.com] >Sent: 23 June 2005 16:43 >To: PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [PAF-5] RIN's > >There is a discrepancy of over 3000 count between the numerical sort of >my data base and the number of individuals when I export a GEDCOM. >Would someone enlighten advise me how to find and use these unused >RIN's? Thanks........Eugene > > >==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== >RootsWeb's WorldConnect Project: >Connecting the World One GEDCOM at a Time >http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/ > > > > >==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== >PAF-5-USERS Mailing List Search >http://searches2.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=PAF-5-USERS

Sorry --- I hit the SEND to quickly Melanie -- to answer your original question: When you generate your list of Living persons set your Filter criteria as: 1. Death Date does Not exist; AND Birth Date Is Greater Than 1910 (for example) Regards, Ken Guilette South Barrington, IL ----- Original Message ----- From: Melanie Petersen To: PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 9:32 AM Subject: [PAF-5] living status What is the protocol in PAF for recording a death when you don't have a day, month, year etc., but you know that they died? Sometimes I run reports and someone born in the early 1800's turns up as living. I guess what I'm saying is--how do you let the computer know that they are no longer living? Thanks, Melanie ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== PAF @ FamilySearch Internet Genealogy Service http://www.familysearch.org/eng/paf/

Eugene, Personally - I would never recommend using RIN numbers for any significant purpose - they provide the internal linkages for the programming to maintain links and relationships - the fact that there are gaps in the sequence is immaterial to the database and the "user" use of PAF. The true count is of course what is on your gedcom and should agree with the stats displayed on the File > Properties window and should equal the record count less the deleted records on the properties window. For the pedantically minded - RIN's can be re-ordered in two main ways: (1) - Re-import your gedcom file into a new database - RIN's will be assigned from #1 in the sequence of loading from the gedcom file. (2) - For the really pedantic - PAFInsight (from Ohana Software) provides features to re-number individual records or sequentially renumber groups of records. But I really cannot think why any one should bother - no significance external to PAF internal programming should ever be attached to RIN (or MRIN numbers). (now that's likely to start a debate!) Regards, Stewart -----Original Message----- From: H. Eugene McInturff [mailto:hemack@lynxconnect.com] Sent: 23 June 2005 16:43 To: PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PAF-5] RIN's There is a discrepancy of over 3000 count between the numerical sort of my data base and the number of individuals when I export a GEDCOM. Would someone enlighten advise me how to find and use these unused RIN's? Thanks........Eugene ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== RootsWeb's WorldConnect Project: Connecting the World One GEDCOM at a Time http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/

There are many ways to enter possible death dates so a person does not appear to be living. However, keep in mind that if you enter a possible date - the person will not appear when you generate a list of persons who's Death Dates you have not found. I sometime use this type of list for research planning. Regards, Ken Guilette South Barrington, IL ----- Original Message ----- From: Melanie Petersen To: PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 9:32 AM Subject: [PAF-5] living status What is the protocol in PAF for recording a death when you don't have a day, month, year etc., but you know that they died? Sometimes I run reports and someone born in the early 1800's turns up as living. I guess what I'm saying is--how do you let the computer know that they are no longer living? Thanks, Melanie ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== PAF @ FamilySearch Internet Genealogy Service http://www.familysearch.org/eng/paf/

alanjones10@cox.net wrote: 1st, I agree with those who already replied regarding RIN numbers. They can have gaps, they are of no real use. 2nd, it is also possible to have people in your database who are not connected to your family tree. I have people like this. For example, if I find someone with one of my odd surnames in a town where my people lived but I have not found how the person is related, I add them to my database, BUT if I export my family tree these people are not included. (This is true if you don't export "all" the file.) It is also possible to get these stray or extra people if you import other GEDCom files that have them.(This is true if you do export "All" the file.) So exporting option "all " or "partial" can make a different. The best thing to do is to run "insight" they will show you all your individuals that are not linked to your main pedigree. Many times these people become unlink when you delete someone. You may find a lot more than you thought you had in there. R Paul Alan > > From: "H. Eugene McInturff" > Date: 2005/06/23 Thu AM 11:43:15 EDT > To: PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [PAF-5] RIN's > > There is a discrepancy of over 3000 count between the numerical sort of > my data base and the number of individuals when I export a GEDCOM. > Would someone enlighten advise me how to find and use these unused > RIN's? Thanks........Eugene > > > ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== > RootsWeb's WorldConnect Project: > Connecting the World One GEDCOM at a Time > http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/ > > ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List http://www.ausbdm.org/p5uindex.php __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

I try to use "Est" when I am making a logical guess about a date but have no solid information and "Abt" when I can narrow the date down to a couple of years. Elaine Oakes

Hi Elaine: How folks enter data into their family history program is a personal choice. Where they might run into a problem is if they make a Gedcom for TR didn't edit it. The former Temple President of the Anchorage Alaska Temple told us in a FHC Staff Training Meeting that many TR disks are unreadable because the Temple's program that reads the disks cannot read them because of unacceptable/extra words or characters. He said to always use Abt. instead of what many of us used to do - ca (circa). So, because my database started with the very first PAF program offered, and I haven't gone back and made those edits, when I make my TR Gedcom, I edit it before I take it to the FHC to make sure it conforms. He said extra punctuation will cause the disk to be rejected as unreadable at that temple and it will have to be sent to a temple that processes Cyrillic languages. Have you heard of that in your area? Connie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elaine Oakes" <eoakes@blueridge.net> To: <PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 12:44 PM Subject: Re: [PAF-5] living status >I try to use "Est" when I am making a logical guess about a date but have >no > solid information and "Abt" when I can narrow the date down to a couple of > years. > Elaine Oakes > > > > ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== > AVG Anti-Virus Users > Disable the 'Certify outgoing messages' option via the E-mail Scanner tab. > >

1st, I agree with those who already replied regarding RIN numbers. They can have gaps, they are of no real use. 2nd, it is also possible to have people in your database who are not connected to your family tree. I have people like this. For example, if I find someone with one of my odd surnames in a town where my people lived but I have not found how the person is related, I add them to my database, BUT if I export my family tree these people are not included. It is also possible to get these stray or extra people if you import other GEDCom files that have them. Alan > > From: "H. Eugene McInturff" <hemack@lynxconnect.com> > Date: 2005/06/23 Thu AM 11:43:15 EDT > To: PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [PAF-5] RIN's > > There is a discrepancy of over 3000 count between the numerical sort of > my data base and the number of individuals when I export a GEDCOM. > Would someone enlighten advise me how to find and use these unused > RIN's? Thanks........Eugene > > > ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== > RootsWeb's WorldConnect Project: > Connecting the World One GEDCOM at a Time > http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/ > >

There is a discrepancy of over 3000 count between the numerical sort of my data base and the number of individuals when I export a GEDCOM. Would someone enlighten advise me how to find and use these unused RIN's? Thanks........Eugene

Here is a couple of ways that might help some. 1.) When you import a new file mark the option to use unused rin #'s. or 2.) Export all information out and reload as new file (and replace old file with this if you want.) This will change all the rin #'s. But they will be continuous. or 3.) Use "Insight" program to change Rin of any existing people of your choice, or let them change it all. Again with this last option your existing rin will change. R paul --------------------------------- Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

It will also accept "dead," and it is typed with one hand. Ruby in WA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Halliday" <rhaldy@comcast.net> To: <PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [PAF-5] living status > PAF accepts the word "Deceased" in place of a death date when you cannot > assign any date but you are sure he is dead. > > Richard L. Halliday > West Linn, Oregon > > > FHB39@cs.com wrote: > >>I record the date as before or after a certain year..i.e. if I find them >>in the 1870 census but 1880 I put "by 1880" Fran > > > ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== > FamilySearch Internet Genealogy Service > http://www.familysearch.org/ > > >

Hi together, Melanie Petersen asked: > which end of line character I would like. > I can choose from CRLF, LF, CR, or LFCR. First: these characters are inherited from typewriters and teleprinters (telex). CR stands for 'carriage return' LF stands for 'line feed' If you grew up before computers you might remember, that a new line on a typewriter has been produced by two different actions: 1. rolling the platen a few cogs up - a line feed 2. moving the daisy wheel or the golf ball to the beginning of the line - a carriage return The first computers were developed following teletypers which had to send both characters in order to print out the whole thing correctly. When the ASCII code has been established by the ISO in 1968 it has been defined, that these control characters as well as all letters, digits etc are represented by certain Bit-sequences which means certain values, eg CR = 000 1101 (= 13), LF = 000 1010 (= 10). But computer memory has been expensive these days and as programmers are creative people and while printers ceased to be the only output device and cathode ray tubes became common, some programmers found out, that a single LF would long to 'tell' the screen, that the next character has to appear at the beginning of the next line. This is, why text files from unix-based-computers usually have a single 'LF' as a mark at the end of a line and DOS-computers the sequence of 'CR' and 'LF'. The several database-management-systems had their own customs of marking the 'end-of-record'. I don't know which, but some may use a single 'CR' or just a 'LF' followed by 'CR'. Have fun. Regards from Bremen, Old Germany. Hans-Christian

PAF accepts the word "Deceased" in place of a death date when you cannot assign any date but you are sure he is dead. Richard L. Halliday West Linn, Oregon FHB39@cs.com wrote: >I record the date as before or after a certain year..i.e. if I find them in >the 1870 census but 1880 I put "by 1880" >Fran > >

I record the date as before or after a certain year..i.e. if I find them in the 1870 census but 1880 I put "by 1880" Fran

Hi Melanie, I always use the About prefix to enter an approximate date of death - on the basis that an approximate/best guess for the year provides a starting point for further research. I also use on birth dates where preciseness has not yet been established. For example - Abt 1790 PAF is able to do date and age calculations based on this approved prefix. Regards, Stewart -----Original Message----- From: Melanie Petersen [mailto:melaniepetersen23@hotmail.com] Sent: 22 June 2005 15:32 To: PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PAF-5] living status What is the protocol in PAF for recording a death when you don't have a day, month, year etc., but you know that they died? Sometimes I run reports and someone born in the early 1800's turns up as living. I guess what I'm saying is--how do you let the computer know that they are no longer living? Thanks, Melanie ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== PAF @ FamilySearch Internet Genealogy Service http://www.familysearch.org/eng/paf/

I consider that the easiest method. And more importantly it works <smile>. Elaine > I *think* you have to generate the report to > your HD and then copy it > onto the CD. > Cheryl

If your database has names that require special characters you would use UTF-8. I use ANSI as my dynamic web site, DFT Com2, requires it. http://userweb.suscom.net/~billinn/ Ansel is a very old character set and not supported by some programs. I really don't know about UNICODE. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Geier" <chargerfree@mindspring.com> To: <PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 9:22 AM Subject: [PAF-5] Exportion to 'Other Gedcom 5.5' > I'd never noticed that 'Other Gedcom 5.5' option until you mentioned it, > Bill. How does one know which character set to use? > > Thanks, > > Charlotte > > > Subject: > Re: [PAF-5] Burning CD for hurrican protection > From: > "Bill Linn" <billinn@suscom.net> > Date: > Tue, 21 Jun 2005 01:05:18 -0400 > > To: > PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com > > > The first step is to export your PAF-5 file to GEDCOM. I would use "Other > GEDCOM 5.5" since this would be compatible with almost any genealogy > program, not just PAF. After exporting you can compress it with Windows XP > Zip utility or Winzip. I can't imagine a GEDCOM so large it wouldn't fit > on one CD after it was zipped. Your sister would need some genealogy > program to view your data. She could open the GEDCOM in a text editor but > that's a pretty tough way to wade through any serious amount of > genealogical data. If your "data" includes photos or links to photos you > could reduce the size of the photos and convert them to jpg format and > burn them to the CD also. > > Regards...... > > Bill > > > ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== > PAF-5-USERS Mailing List > http://www.ausbdm.org/p5uindex.php > >

Usually you have a date that you know they were not living in, so I write "Bef 1950" and that registers as dead. > From: "Melanie Petersen" <melaniepetersen23@hotmail.com> > Date: 2005/06/22 Wed AM 10:32:25 EDT > To: PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [PAF-5] living status > > What is the protocol in PAF for recording a death when you don't have a day, > month, year etc., but you know that they died? Sometimes I run reports and > someone born in the early 1800's turns up as living. I guess what I'm > saying is--how do you let the computer know that they are no longer living? > > Thanks, > Melanie > > > > ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== > PAF @ FamilySearch Internet Genealogy Service > http://www.familysearch.org/eng/paf/ > >