My thanks to Stewart for specifying steps in defining a Source. I am more and more convinced that I should use this resource. With over 25,000 names in my largest PAF file, it would be a daunting task to do this, but in the long run would be worthwhile. Tom Sevy in Taylorsville, Utah

In a message dated 7/24/2005 10:17:01 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, dsz@bcpl.net writes: He has a zip feature on the old one, but even with that cannot get all our PAF on one floppy, so he's going to break PAF down into (four?) files. Personally, I think you are asking for a lot of extra work doing that (and maybe some problems getting the files back together). Either just back up to floppies (using however many you need) or buy a cheap 64 meg USB stick and backup to that (if the old machine has a USB port). PAF knows when more than one floppy is used for backup and can handle the restoration to the new machine. However, do not get rid of your PAF files on the old machine until you know that the new one is working properly and your file has been backed up from that new one.

In a message dated 7/23/2005 7:47:40 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, lemow@email.com writes: I make a "backup" to my hard disk. It's not my only backup (I use both floppies and USB Drives) This, of course, is the key. Having a backup to your hard drive only, or to one floppy only, or to one USB stick only, is dangerous. Having multiple backups is more work, but if your data is valuable (and all Family History data is valuable), then it is worth it. I also write data to CD's about once a month. But this is generally raw data (PAF files, Word files, Excel files, etc.). What I do not do is store those backups somewhere away from my home for safety. I guess I will have to think about doing that. I have been thinking about hard drive crashes not fires.

On the contrary, I find PAF5 sources very easy to use. They can be edited at any time. The main entry can be copied and used over many times, exchanging just the personal information about the ancestor. I found Elizabeth Shown Mills' book "Evidence : Citation & Analysis for the Family Historian." It is quite reasonable in price and is available in several places. I like it because it teaches how to construct a citation in bibliographic form, which I like. As an example, censuses are entered: Iowa. Decatur County. 1860 US census, population schedule. If you edit the main citation, it changes for all of those involved. You can also find out who you have listed under that particular citation which also can be a great help. I love it. The Master Genealogist is too complicated for me. In fact, I had a friend who is a computer programmer advise me never to get iinvolved with it because I would debate with myself with myself too much for en tries and their value. I'm very satisfied with PAF5. Pat Pat At 07:47 PM 7/24/2005, Bill Williams wrote: >I have sent a request about the subject some time ago but received no >responses, I do not even see my inquiry listed. What am I doing wrong? > >I would like some help on how to identify my sources. I must not be using >a correct title or something. When I go in to the source list I see >dozens of duplicate sources listed. I am considering going over to the >Master Genealogist Program as I see it assigns a number to each source. I >used to enjoy giving sources in PAF 4 but in PAF 5 it seems to be very >cumbersome. There must be a better way. >Bill Williams > > >==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== >PAF-5-USERS Mailing List Search >http://searches2.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=PAF-5-USERS

At 08:09 PM 7/24/2005, Patricia J Weisshaus wrote: [snip] >You can also find out who you have listed under that particular citation >which also can be a great help. I have wanted to do that but couldn't figure out how. Could you give details? Thanks, Beth Johnston

I have sent a request about the subject some time ago but received no responses, I do not even see my inquiry listed. What am I doing wrong? I would like some help on how to identify my sources. I must not be using a correct title or something. When I go in to the source list I see dozens of duplicate sources listed. I am considering going over to the Master Genealogist Program as I see it assigns a number to each source. I used to enjoy giving sources in PAF 4 but in PAF 5 it seems to be very cumbersome. There must be a better way. Bill Williams

You are correct and I forgot to mention that weekly updates are taken to work in another City, and sent to family in Arizona. I have a copy of a friends file and she has mine (zip drives and installed on our computers) and a coworker keeps a copy at her home. Every couple of months I send a backup to my Uncle in another city in CA. Copies of the actual documents & more backups are housed in fireproof boxes and stored in a warehouse that also has it's own protection. I have been doing genealogy for 55 years -- started at age 12 -- and could not afford to lose my items. I know my method is not full-proof. But I am hoping I have it pretty well covered. Sharon in So. California

I have run the check/repair report and have one error. This problem is also on my back up copies. I ran the repair option but although it says it is fixed, when I run the check/repair report again, the same error turns up, saying fixed. This is what it says. Checking Citations: 467 records. Citation 186 comments note pointer 121 pointing to wrong owner (47). (FIXED) Can anyone advise how I can stop this appearing? Or, how I can I fix it myself. Thanks, Valerie

PAF Insight is far superior for many things over the PAF program. Check and repair is one of them. It is available at this site for a very small fee (worth every penny spent). http://www.ohanasoftware.com/ Not connect with it, just a happy customer. Sharon in So. California

Shirley, To use a CD for backups, first make a backup from PAF and put it somewhere on your hard drive ("My Documents" works well). Next, click on My Documents on the start menu. Now insert a CD and you will be asked want you want to do. Choose "Open writable CD folder using Windows Explorer." You will now have two windows open. Find your backup file and drag it into the window for your CD. After you drag it over you will see the choice to "Write these files to CD" in the left column of the CD window. Click on that operation and then follow the prompts. You can use the same CD for more backups in the future. However you should at least rotate using several CD's so you are a bit more safe. I generally use CD-R because they are so cheap. A CD-RW will allow you to erase files, a CD-R will not. Since a CD-R holds so much I never need to bother with erasing. It would take a very long time to fill a CD-R with PAF backups. For my PAF file I could store more than 500 backups before filling either a CD-R or a CD-RW. Aloha, John -----Original Message----- From: makekaus [mailto:makekaus@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 7:32 AM To: John Vilburn Subject: RE: [PAF-5] Backup files I'm a lurker here but reading about back ups and CD's ..I have never used the CD's for back ups and I need to know if you use a CD-R or a CD-RW? I am used to floppies but my computer now has both. Do you use the same CD to back up or what? I am anxiously waiting for a reply. I am not computer savvy so talk to me in simple language LOL Thank You. Shirley

I understand that PAF offers a "log file" (.pal) parallel to the database (.paf). I had a look into this log file - it shows just the facts that a person's data have been inserted/modified/removed, but not the details of this change. So you are forced to use a separate means like PAF Insight to compare two "generations" of the database to see the differences in case you must - e.g. after a crash or after you mis-updated the PAF file - go back to an earlier generation and re-apply all or selected changes. And this must be done step by step, manually! When I see a .paf file as a database which has a logging facility I normally expect that a recovery takes place in the following way: First: restore an older generation of the .paf file; second: re-apply all (automatically) or selected (e.g. from the beginning until a explicitely named transaction) transactions from the log file(s) which have been created from the first update to this particular generation onwards. This in mind I cannot see the .pal file functionality as a real logging facility; it's just a means which can tell you: have a look at RIN or MRIN number ...: at ...date... ...time... there have been changes. Will a successor of PAF5.2.18 have a real logging facility which such a complicated database is worth to have? -- Nikolaus (Ordemann) http://privat.genealogy.net/ordemann Die genealogische Ordemann-Homepage The (German language) genealogical Ordemann homepage

Sharon, You said "I am hoping I have it pretty well covered." If every one took the care to back up as well as you do, loss of data would be practically unheard of. Aloha, John -----Original Message----- From: GenBound@aol.com [mailto:GenBound@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 12:50 PM To: PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PAF-5] Re: Backing Up Files You are correct and I forgot to mention that weekly updates are taken to work in another City, and sent to family in Arizona. I have a copy of a friends file and she has mine (zip drives and installed on our computers) and a coworker keeps a copy at her home. Every couple of months I send a backup to my Uncle in another city in CA. Copies of the actual documents & more backups are housed in fireproof boxes and stored in a warehouse that also has it's own protection. I have been doing genealogy for 55 years -- started at age 12 -- and could not afford to lose my items. I know my method is not full-proof. But I am hoping I have it pretty well covered. Sharon in So. California ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List Archives http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PAF-5-USERS/

Generally, the backups you would create with PAF are not for long-term use, but until a few more have been made. Floppies need to be reformated occasionally to lay down a new magnetic pattern that is more reliable. Even with that, they may eventually fail. CDs are said to have a life- time of about 10 years, but not the way I see many folks handle them. Every media has problems. With care, proper cleaning of heads and such, most of the drives and media will last quite a while. If you do not rewrite the data to a floppy on occasions, it will ultimately fail. Not necessarily because it is bad, but because the magnetic markers slowly decay unless reset. Yes, they are considered to be probably the least reliable, but still work great for a lot of folks that take care of them. Your warning should be noted for all media. Bill > This is all good but, I've said this many times here, if at all possible use > CDs or something other than floppies for backups. If you don't have a CD > burner you can back up to one of the available free web pages. I have more > than 1000 floppies dating back to the late 1980s. About one in four of these > are no longer readable. I've had 3 zip drives that have failed so these are > no longer usable and 2 tape backup drives. I still have about 20 tapes, (at > $20.00 each), but can't find a tape drive that can read them. I've had 4 or > more hard drive failures where some data was lost even though I've always > had 2 hard drives in my computer. Right now CDs seem to be the best media > available but the way technology is advancing even CDs may be obsolete a few > years down the road. If you must back up to floppies make several sets so > your data is at least semi-safe and keep your data on more than one > computer. > > Regards, Bill > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary Templeman" <gtempleman1@comcast.net> > To: <PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 1:51 PM > Subject: Re: [PAF-5] ?moving PAF to new computer > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dolly Ziegler" <dsz@bcpl.net> > >> > >> He has a zip feature on the old one, but even with that cannot get all > >> our > >> PAF on one floppy, so he's going to break PAF down into (four?) files. > >> > >> Any advice, please? Thanks, Dolly in Maryland > >> > > > > The backup file that PAF creates is a ZIP file. When that file is too long > > for one floppy, PAF will automatically span over however many floppies are > > needed. Or let PAF create the backup to the hard drive and then burn that > > file to a CD. There is no need to break down your master PAF file into > > smaller files for backup purposes. > > > > Make sure you are NOT using a separate utility (WinZip, etc) to create > > your > > PAF backups, but let the PAF program do it for you. I would only use > > WinZip > > for things like zipping a GEDCOM or other files prior to emailing, zipping > > and unzipping other archives, etc. Let PAF handle the backup and restore > > functions internally. > > > > Gary Templeman > > > > > > ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== > > FreeBMD - Free Access to England and Wales Civil Registration Index > > Volunteer as a Transcriber Today! > > http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > > > > > > ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== > RootsWeb > http://www.rootsweb.com/ > -- Dr. William A. Davis, Director of VT Antenna Lab The Bradley Dept of Elec & Comp Engr, Virginia Tech Blacksburg, VA 24061-0111 [(540)231-6307, 231-3362FAX] http://antenna.ece.vt.edu

The main problem with sending a GEDCOM to a web location is the risk (very strong) that you are posting living data. If you restrict the living, then you have not backed up some of your important data. It is best to use the backups. In 2 lines, John Vilburn just summarized at least 2 reasons for making backups: archive and for potential errors. The backups are the most efficient method due to the compression in the file. The GEDCOM lacks the completeness of the backup that is an exact copy (just compressed) of your data file. It is easy to recover and store in other locations. A zip drive was also mentioned as a possible source. I am comfortable with a zip drive, but there are a lot of folks that have sworn off of them because of problems. I am not sure what there problems were. In any case, all media have pros and cons. As long as you cycle through media copies, you should be OK - floopy, zip drive, memory stick, CD, or even external hard drives. In fact the last is good for backing up your whole system in case it crashes. Bill > Another Idea is what I do to my Genealogy Data that I do not want to loose > is I send it through Familysearch.org by way of Gedcom to the Sharing to > "Pedigree Resource File" They in turn put it on CDs and store it in the > Granite Mountain and also share it by putting it on CDs. > Donna >

This is all good but, I've said this many times here, if at all possible use CDs or something other than floppies for backups. If you don't have a CD burner you can back up to one of the available free web pages. I have more than 1000 floppies dating back to the late 1980s. About one in four of these are no longer readable. I've had 3 zip drives that have failed so these are no longer usable and 2 tape backup drives. I still have about 20 tapes, (at $20.00 each), but can't find a tape drive that can read them. I've had 4 or more hard drive failures where some data was lost even though I've always had 2 hard drives in my computer. Right now CDs seem to be the best media available but the way technology is advancing even CDs may be obsolete a few years down the road. If you must back up to floppies make several sets so your data is at least semi-safe and keep your data on more than one computer. Regards, Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Templeman" <gtempleman1@comcast.net> To: <PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [PAF-5] ?moving PAF to new computer > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dolly Ziegler" <dsz@bcpl.net> >> >> He has a zip feature on the old one, but even with that cannot get all >> our >> PAF on one floppy, so he's going to break PAF down into (four?) files. >> >> Any advice, please? Thanks, Dolly in Maryland >> > > The backup file that PAF creates is a ZIP file. When that file is too long > for one floppy, PAF will automatically span over however many floppies are > needed. Or let PAF create the backup to the hard drive and then burn that > file to a CD. There is no need to break down your master PAF file into > smaller files for backup purposes. > > Make sure you are NOT using a separate utility (WinZip, etc) to create > your > PAF backups, but let the PAF program do it for you. I would only use > WinZip > for things like zipping a GEDCOM or other files prior to emailing, zipping > and unzipping other archives, etc. Let PAF handle the backup and restore > functions internally. > > Gary Templeman > > > ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== > FreeBMD - Free Access to England and Wales Civil Registration Index > Volunteer as a Transcriber Today! > http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > >

I agree with the recommendation that you backup to CD's as the best current method. But, I also want secure storage of my backups. I bought a small fire box, but quickly outgrew it. Then one day, I had a stroke of brilliance (IMHO). We have a cold storage room in our basement that has 8 inch concrete walls, floor and ceiling. Granted, it has a wood door at one end, but the room is 25 feet long. I figure (accurately I hope) that by storing my backup media in the far end of my cold storage room in a fairly air-tight plastic box, it should make it through a house fire. Not that I anticipate a house fire, but it would be easier to replace my house than to replace my family history computer files. I agree that another way to achieve security is to store them in a totally separate location, but convenience means a lot -- and it is a short walk down one flight of stairs to my new "storage facility". I recognize that this idea is of no use to most people, but if you do happen to have a cold storage room, or even a 1950s era bomb shelter, you might consider this. Also, if your have a gun safe (or even buy a used gun safe), that would be another option. Tom Sevy in Salt Lake

The "backing up files" thread is interesting; thanks to all. This is a related question: My husband uses his computer only for PAF. It's Win98, Pentium 2. Is NOT connected to the internet, though we've tried. (My computer, six feet away, is on internet, Verizon DSL.) He's getting a new Dell, may be delivered tomorrow; Win XP Home, Pentium 4; added 3.5" floppy drive and CD burner. He has a zip feature on the old one, but even with that cannot get all our PAF on one floppy, so he's going to break PAF down into (four?) files. Any advice, please? Thanks, Dolly in Maryland

The true test of a backup file, Patricia IS will it actually restore your files? The fact that they are showing when you check the contents of a diskette is immaterial. That doesn't indicate if the file is damaged in any way. That's why it always pays to use different mediums of saving backups so that you always have alternatives - diskettes; CD-R; DVD; another hard drive; external hard drive; etc. On 7/24/05, Patricia J Weisshaus <patjw28@earthlink.net> wrote: > I have a question: > > When I do a backup I always go into Run Command dir a: to check what's on > the disk. Is this not proof enough that I have a good backup if it tells me > there was one made on this date? I also do two backups and store one in my > file at the FHC. > > Pat > > > > > At 10:13 PM 7/23/2005, Mike St. Clair/ST wrote: > >When you make your backups to floppy diskettes, there is a danger many folks > >ignore. If you use a single diskette or set of diskettes to do your backups > >there are two catastrophes that can occur. > > > >1 - One that is guaranteed to happen over time is that the backup > >diskette(s) can become "worn out" over time by the constant passing of the > >drive heads over the diskettes. This can result in the failure to do a > >successful restore when you need to. > > > >2 - A catastrophe that is "waiting in the wings" and could happen results > >from a crash of the computer during the backup process. If you are doing a > >backup and your hard drive crashes while in the process, you've just > >overwritten your last backup, but haven't successfully created a usable new > >backup. Thus you wouldn't have anything to restore. The same thing can > >result from a power outage during the backup process, or a motherboard > >failure during the backup, etc. > > > >I've observed that a great many PAF users follow the approach of using the > >same backup disk over and over, and are thus susceptable to this sort of > >problem. They feel comfortable that they are backing up their data, but > >they don't really have solid protection. > > > >I teach an approach for folks using diskettes that get's around this > >problem. > > > >First, assemble a set of diskettes for the backups - I recommend at least 5, > >but it can be any number. A set is however many diskettes it takes to do > >your backups - one being enough for most folks. > > > >Second, make labels indicating these are PAF backups and numbered from 1 to > >as many sets as you have, and mark them with the date they went into > >service. > > > >Third, organize the backup diskettes in numerical order (such as in a closed > >diskette box or plastic diskette holder with a cover) > > > >Fourth, when you make a backup, take the set of diskettes off the back , > >make your backup and replace them in the front. > > > >Fifth, at the end of each year, replace half of the diskettes. > > > >For some other comments about the backup process, see the following page at > >PAF Review: > > > >http://www.paf-review.com/paf_backup.html > > > >Mike St. Clair > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Stewart Millar [mailto:sm999@tiscali.co.uk] > >Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 10:11 AM > >To: PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: RE: [PAF-5] Backup files > > > >John, > > > >What you are doing is absolutely fine - keep making those back-ups to your > >floppy disc! > > > >The 3-steps I proposed are an enhancement to that process. > > > >Having a designated folder on your hard drive for backups (as defined in > >Tools > Preferences > Folders) in combination with my second step of naming > >each back-up with a date --- gives you your first line of defence - having > >available on your hard drive, for immediate access and comparison a series > >of dated past back up files. > > > >Your preference set-up for this setting most likely specifies the A-drive. > > > >It is of course only a first line of defence - each backup file should > >subsequently be copied to an exterior medium and/or facility (floppy disc, > >CD, memory stick, email attachment, ftp to internet site etc.). > > > >I find it most useful to have a series of past dated backups immediately > >accessible for quick comparisons or testing/corrupting with some new > >procedure - and, in common with a growing number of modern PC's and lap > >tops, there is no built in floppy drive to my pc (although I do have an > >exterior attachment which I only bring out when someone specifically wants a > >floppy disk from me - becoming very rare now). > > > >Regards, > > > >Stewart > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: john burns [mailto:johnburns@telus.net] > >Sent: 23 July 2005 00:30 > >To: PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: Re: [PAF-5] Backup files > > > >I've been looking at this post for a day and still can't make any sense of > >it. I just make a backup of my PAF to a floppy disc. > >Why would you "set up a specific folder for your back-up files"? > >John > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Stewart Millar" <sm999@tiscali.co.uk> > >To: <PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com> > >Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 2:27 AM > >Subject: RE: [PAF-5] Backup files > > > > > > > Grace, > > > > > > Good Question! Despite backups being an essential safety net, over the > >years > > > I have seen great confusion and actual loss of data because of the way in > > > which backups have been handled. > > > > > > The steps that I teach and advocate are as follows: > > > > > > 1. In Tools > Preferences > Folders set up a specific folder for your > > > back-up files. This would be somewhere on your hard drive - mine are kept > >in > > > C:\........\My Documents\PAF\Backup. > > > > > > 2. When selecting or requested to do a backup - the suggested name of > > > the zipped backup is your PAF database name - this should be changed to > > > include the date of your backup - for example, my database is millar.paf, > > > which for a backup (today) I would change the suggested name to > > > > > > millar-2005-07-21 (the .zip extension will be added automatically for > > > you) > > > > > > This example of course is using the reverse European date system (Y-M-D) > > > which is recommended for keeping a series of files in date sequence. > > > > > > For any time where you have multiple backups on the same day - for > >instance, > > > where you create a backup to take to a FHC or on a research trip - add > >some > > > data at the FHC - then create a backup at the FHC to take home - simply > >add > > > an additional version number at the end of the second backup file name, > >for > > > example: > > > > > > Millar-2005-07-21-2 > > > > > > 3. The backed-up file should then - for security reasons - either - be > > > burned onto a CD - copied to a floppy disc (if your PC still has a floppy > > > disc) - copied to a USB memory stick - attached and emailed to a friend - > > > uploaded (ftp) to a secure internet site. Whatever suits your off-site > > > storage arrangements. > > > > > > Using this approach you will then have a series of past backups - all date > > > marked. > > > > > > Periodically you would delete the older backup versions. > > > > > > This way, any restored backup will create a PAF file with the same name > >that > > > has the date incorporated in it. From any restored backup, you can then > >make > > > the deliberate choice to rename the restored backup as your main file > >(using > > > Save-As). > > > > > > Backups are not only a safety net for restoring a lost file but used in > >this > > > way can allow you to open up (restore) a past back for a specific date and > > > compare it with your current database to track any changes that you may > >have > > > made. > > > > > > Good luck, > > > > > > Stewart > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Grace Inman [mailto:Grace@eufaula.rr.com] > > > Sent: 21 July 2005 04:03 > > > To: PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: [PAF-5] Backup files > > > > > > Could someone please explain to me in real simple baby steps how to make > >the > > > best kind of backup files? When I click "Backup" on the File menu of > >PAF.5, > > > I always tell it to overwrite the current file. Is that the way I should > >do > > > it, or not? If not, how should I be doing it to provide the maximum > > > protection for my file(s)? Please and thank you very much. > > > Grace in Georgia, USA > > > > > > In God we trust. > > > > > > > > > ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== > > > PAF @ FamilySearch Internet Genealogy Service > > > http://www.familysearch.org/eng/paf/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== > > > FreeBMD - Free Access to England and Wales Civil Registration Index > > > Volunteer as a Transcriber Today! > > > http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== > >PAF @ FamilySearch Internet Genealogy Service > >http://www.familysearch.org/eng/paf/ > > > > > >==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== > >Replying to Posts > >When quoting a post you're replying to, omit signatures and taglines that > >are appended to the post. > > > ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== > RootsWeb > http://www.rootsweb.com/ > > -- P. S. Check out Legacy Family Tree today! This full featured genealogy program can be downloaded FREE at http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Index.asp?mid=52583ii

Hello Mike St Clair and all: Thank you Mike, so very much for posting the URL (_http://www.paf-review.com/paf_backup.html_ (http://www.paf-review.com/paf_backup.html) ) for the PAF Review. I think it could be helpful for everyone to review the total site. I found it extremely helpful and wish I had known about it before. I also want to input my backup plan. When I bought my second computer a year ago (one of the last models with a floppy drive), I kept my old computer. Every time I make a backup floppy, I restore it to my old computer and a do a quick compare job between the two computers on my newly entered data. About once a week I store the current floppy at my son's house for double security. Thanks again Mike. Gladys

----- Original Message ----- From: "Dolly Ziegler" <dsz@bcpl.net> > > He has a zip feature on the old one, but even with that cannot get all our > PAF on one floppy, so he's going to break PAF down into (four?) files. > > Any advice, please? Thanks, Dolly in Maryland > The backup file that PAF creates is a ZIP file. When that file is too long for one floppy, PAF will automatically span over however many floppies are needed. Or let PAF create the backup to the hard drive and then burn that file to a CD. There is no need to break down your master PAF file into smaller files for backup purposes. Make sure you are NOT using a separate utility (WinZip, etc) to create your PAF backups, but let the PAF program do it for you. I would only use WinZip for things like zipping a GEDCOM or other files prior to emailing, zipping and unzipping other archives, etc. Let PAF handle the backup and restore functions internally. Gary Templeman