I will second the comments of those who have had positive experiences with posting family trees to World Connect. I posted my tree online on New Year's Eve in 2003 as a third line of defense when I was afraid my computer was about to crash. Since that time I have added thousands of individuals to my tree through my own research and that contributed by others who found their ancestors out on the tip of one of my branches and offered information about descendants. Rarely is there a day when I don't have contact with one or more persons based on my online tree. Think about that: two contacts per day for 18 months--that's 1,080 people contacting me! I've had exactly one of them say, "Send me all you have." The others are usually offering help in filling in gaps. I have at times been overwhelmed by the offerings. Why add them? Because otherwise information that might help yet another researcher get their tree growing would possibly not be available. Maybe, just maybe, that second researcher might have been the one who would break down one of my brick walls. AND, because the more I know about the extended family, the more I really understand my own direct ancestors. I long ago lost track of the times I have found family trails crossing and re-crossing lines. Besides that, you never know when one of those really distant cousins is going to have the old family Bible that has the missing piece of information that's not recorded anywhere else in the known world. Several years ago we made contact with a descendant of my 2nd great grandfather's brother. This family had preserved a family Bible dating back to the Rev. War that included my 3rd great grandmother's maiden name AND both her parents' names (for which our line of researchers had been searching for over 50 years). In another instance of cooperative effort, I had three different researchers on related lines contact me in a two month period. One had letters from the 1880's that had clues, that worki! ng together, allowed us all to add significantly to our total knowledge. Two others had numerous family photos to share. None of us had enough to have accomplished so much alone. I could give dozens of examples where having my tree online has lead others to me and allowed us to create a mutually beneficial correspondence. The growth has been exponential. The more information I have out there, the more people there are finding what they need in my web, and it just keeps growing. I note in the heading of my WorldConnect tree that: "This information is the work of many researchers and should be considered tentative until you've documented it to your own satisfaction." I also note that sources and notes are available upon request. I do not post my notes or sources online. As I stated, I've been doing genealogy research for many years and have been entering information in PAF for more than half that time...long before I ever thought of putting it online. Therefore, I know there are things in my notes and sources that I would prefer to not have posted online for a variety of reasons. I also have entered actual text on many, many of my sources, in some cases 15-20 of them on an individual. I'm not sure how WorldConnect or any other site would handled such a posting for 25,000 individuals (+ sources & text), or what the copyright issues might be. I really do not want anyone wholesale downloading my information, but I am very willing, when contacted, to do ! whatever I can to assist other researchers with the information I have in my files, selecting appropriate records that I think will help them and often doing additional research myself when I have little to report. At the same time I refer them to others who have contacted me about common interests and who are actively researching the line in question. All I ask is the opportunity to SHARE information. Do I use WorldConnect myself? You bet. How do I select the entries out of many to contact? I look for the ones that have the most complete information on the individuals I need. If they have only a name with no supporting dates or places, marriages, children, both parents, etc...I'll probably look at another entry where someone has to all appearances spent a little, or a lot, more time and effort locating information. Something missing? Want more? See an error? Have a suggestion? Email makes it easy to write and inquire. I've been doing genealogy for half my lifetime and would have been delighted had I had resources for all those 25 years that have become available only in the last few years. Where would I be today in my research had I had such access all along? How many people can I equip with information hammers to help work on breaking down our common brick walls? Sherry Johnson ______________________________Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 18:55:01 -0400 From: wadavis@vt.edu To: PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PAF-5] Gedcom sharing/worldconnect I too have concerns about GEDCOMs and generally do not download them or make mine available. If I talk to some one on mail for a bit, I might send part. WorldConnect is good about the living filter that is good. That way I don't accidentally forget when I make my GEDCOM and then upload living folks. I have had to revise some notes that referred to living. The advantage to me has been the contact with other family members who found me this way. One is the daughter of my Dad's cousin that I was named after. She was letting me know some additional info on the murder of our great grandmother that came from her Grandmother (the kid that did the crime apparently lived his whole life in regret and confessed on his death bed. If now we could only identify him! You might find some great contacts this way. Bill --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

Gary and Rollie, Thanks to both of you for your very clear and concise instructions and comments. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Templeman" <gtempleman1@comcast.net> To: "Dick Cazier" <dcazier@comcast.net> Cc: <PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [PAF-5] ?moving PAF to new computer > See inserted comments. > > Gary Templeman > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dick Cazier" <dcazier@comcast.net> > To: <PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 12:31 PM > Subject: Re: [PAF-5] ?moving PAF to new computer > > >> Hi Group, >> Somehow I missed this thread or deleted it, thinking I didn't need to > worry >> about it. I have now purchased a laptop computer to take with me on >> research trips. So I need to transfer/copy, or whatever term is >> appropriate, my master file (over 32,000 individuals) from my tower > computer >> to my laptop. Both computers have Windows XP Home Edition, with Service >> Pack II installed. My need for help is about the following items. >> >> 1. Downloading PAF5. I have the setup file still on my tower computer >> desktop. Should I transfer that file to my laptop and install from >> there, >> or is it better to go directly to the website and download from there? > > If you have a broadband connection it is probably a wash, but with dial-up > it will definitely be faster to transfer from the desktop to the laptop. > The > file is the exact same file, so the source doesn't matter. The choice is > totally your preference. BTW, I suggest making a folder on the hard drive > (NOT on the desktop screen) called downloads, and store all the downloaded > program installation files in sub-folders within the download folder. That > will help uncluttered your desktop screen, and saving the install files > means you don't have to navigate to the web site and download over again > should you need to re-install (unless a program has been updated). > >> >> 2. Moving Data from one computer to the other. I plan to put my entire >> database on the laptop initially. I want to be able to add information >> to >> either one; mostly the laptop, while traveling for research purposes, and >> then transfer it to my tower computer. I know there has been much >> discussion concerning the importance, or lack of importance, of RINs and >> keeping them the same for each individual when info is transferred. >> Until > I >> actually experience transferring and adding new data, then transferring >> it >> back to the other computer, I'd like to keep existing people with >> constant >> associated RINs and newly added people winding up with the same RINs >> after >> transfers in either direction. I'm afraid transferring the data via a >> GEDCOM won't maintain the RINs like I want them to. > > Correct. Go to File_Backup and make a backup file, then take that file on > a > CDE, flash drive or the multiple floppies to the laptop, start PAF 5 and > go > to File_Restore. Select the file you just created (say, cazier.zip) and go > through the restore process. It will transfer EXACTLY as you have it now, > RIN's, etc. Remember to also manually transfer any folders of multimedia > to > the exact same path on the laptop if you want the links to work. > >> >> Can someone give me baby step instructions on what kind of files to >> create >> and how to transfer them. My tower has a CD-RW drive and my laptop has a >> DVD-CD ROM drive. I also have a 3.5" floppy drive in each computer, but >> using a backup file still takes more than one disk to hold the data. >> >> Thanks for your help. >> Dick Cazier >> Lakewood, Colorado >> USA >> > > The biggest potential problem I see is in keeping the data in sync. If you > accidentally take a backup from the computer with older data and restore > it > on the one you have been using for data entry, all the new data will be > wiped out. Even having a historical backup will not replace the lost > entries. While it is possible to use something like PAF Insight to keep > things in sync, it is definitely safer to pick one computer and stick with > it, or be absolutely religious in keeping a record of which computer has > the > most current information if you do not want to be doing the same data > entry > 2 or more times. > > Gary > >

I think maybe the answer is yes, they are shown in the Pedigree Resource Files which are avilale at the Family History Centers. Pat At 05:13 PM 7/29/2005, alanjones10@cox.net wrote: >The citations are accepted. I believe that they are only shown on the CDs. >The CDs can be veiwed in any of the 4,000+ Family History Centers. > > > > > > From: "Rollei Little" <rollei_little@hotmail.com> > > Date: 2005/07/29 Fri PM 04:25:19 EDT > > To: alanjones10@cox.net, PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [PAF-5] Lack of Internet citations > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Correct me if I'm wrong but the familysearch site doesn't accept > citations. > > Unless I'm doing something wrong. I have submitted several database > entries, > > all with citations, but when I check back (once it's been processed), > > citations aren't shown. > > Maybe it's me????? > > > > Rollei > > > > <SNIP> > > > > > >There is one site I know of that will accept our genealogy postings and > > >they do not sell ad space, it is www.familysearch.org On that site the > > >database PRF is the one we can contribute to. It is done under the SHARE > > >tab. Of course lazy people may not provide their sources here too. Yes > this > > >site is sponsored by the LDS Church, but they never ever sell > genealogy for > > >profit. > > > > > <SNIP> > > > > > > > > >==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== >PAF @ FamilySearch Internet Genealogy Service >http://www.familysearch.org/eng/paf/

Correct me if I'm wrong but the familysearch site doesn't accept citations. Unless I'm doing something wrong. I have submitted several database entries, all with citations, but when I check back (once it's been processed), citations aren't shown. Maybe it's me????? Rollei <SNIP> > >There is one site I know of that will accept our genealogy postings and >they do not sell ad space, it is www.familysearch.org On that site the >database PRF is the one we can contribute to. It is done under the SHARE >tab. Of course lazy people may not provide their sources here too. Yes this >site is sponsored by the LDS Church, but they never ever sell genealogy for >profit. > <SNIP>

They are available in any center which has purchased them. Unfortunately, the CDs are not sent to centers for free and many centers do not have the budget to keep up with the releases. Gary Templeman Director, Corvallis Oregon FHC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia J Weisshaus" <patjw28@earthlink.net> To: <PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 5:39 PM Subject: Re: Re: [PAF-5] Lack of Internet citations > I think maybe the answer is yes, they are shown in the Pedigree Resource > Files which are avilale at the Family History Centers. > > Pat > > At 05:13 PM 7/29/2005, alanjones10@cox.net wrote: > >The citations are accepted. I believe that they are only shown on the CDs. > >The CDs can be veiwed in any of the 4,000+ Family History Centers. > > > > > > > > > > From: "Rollei Little" <rollei_little@hotmail.com> > > > Date: 2005/07/29 Fri PM 04:25:19 EDT > > > To: alanjones10@cox.net, PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [PAF-5] Lack of Internet citations > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Correct me if I'm wrong but the familysearch site doesn't accept > > citations. > > > Unless I'm doing something wrong. I have submitted several database > > entries, > > > all with citations, but when I check back (once it's been processed), > > > citations aren't shown. > > > Maybe it's me????? > > > > > > Rollei > > > > > > <SNIP> > > > > > > > >There is one site I know of that will accept our genealogy postings and > > > >they do not sell ad space, it is www.familysearch.org On that site the > > > >database PRF is the one we can contribute to. It is done under the SHARE > > > >tab. Of course lazy people may not provide their sources here too. Yes > > this > > > >site is sponsored by the LDS Church, but they never ever sell > > genealogy for > > > >profit. > > > > > > > <SNIP> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== > >PAF @ FamilySearch Internet Genealogy Service > >http://www.familysearch.org/eng/paf/ > > > ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== > FreeBMD - Free Access to England and Wales Civil Registration Index > Volunteer as a Transcriber Today! > http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ >

The citations are accepted. I believe that they are only shown on the CDs. The CDs can be veiwed in any of the 4,000+ Family History Centers. > > From: "Rollei Little" <rollei_little@hotmail.com> > Date: 2005/07/29 Fri PM 04:25:19 EDT > To: alanjones10@cox.net, PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PAF-5] Lack of Internet citations > > > > > > > > Correct me if I'm wrong but the familysearch site doesn't accept citations. > Unless I'm doing something wrong. I have submitted several database entries, > all with citations, but when I check back (once it's been processed), > citations aren't shown. > Maybe it's me????? > > Rollei > > <SNIP> > > > >There is one site I know of that will accept our genealogy postings and > >they do not sell ad space, it is www.familysearch.org On that site the > >database PRF is the one we can contribute to. It is done under the SHARE > >tab. Of course lazy people may not provide their sources here too. Yes this > >site is sponsored by the LDS Church, but they never ever sell genealogy for > >profit. > > > <SNIP> > > >

Dick, You say: "Can someone give me baby step instructions on what kind of files to create and how to transfer them. My tower has a CD-RW drive and my laptop has a DVD-CD ROM drive. I also have a 3.5" floppy drive in each computer, but using a backup file still takes more than one disk to hold the data." I have and use a similar setup. Since both of your computers are using Windows XP I assume your have a USB port on each one. In my case I use a 512 MB Flash Drive to backup my PAF5 files onto. It is very easy to Restore the data from one computer to the other. Most of my work is done on the Laptop since I use it for portability. Quite often I move the Flash Drive to the desk top and update my 12 Databsases. I have setup both computers to use a separate Folder for data storage on the main drive with another separate Folder for backup. It is easy to then save it to the Flash Drive and move back and forth. Ross GH Cotton, Burlington ON CAN 905)639-2929 Genealogy of the COTTON surname is my Enigma. I haven't sent an attachment if the details are not mentioned above. Check out my Genealogy Web Page at www.skylinc.net/~rgcotton GOONS member responsible for tracking the family name COTTON, #1437 Coordinator for Cotton DNA testing Project, Worldwide ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Cazier To: PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 3:31 PM Subject: Re: [PAF-5] ?moving PAF to new computer Hi Group, Somehow I missed this thread or deleted it, thinking I didn't need to worry about it. I have now purchased a laptop computer to take with me on research trips. So I need to transfer/copy, or whatever term is appropriate, my master file (over 32,000 individuals) from my tower computer to my laptop. Both computers have Windows XP Home Edition, with Service Pack II installed. My need for help is about the following items. 1. Downloading PAF5. I have the setup file still on my tower computer desktop. Should I transfer that file to my laptop and install from there, or is it better to go directly to the website and download from there? 2. Moving Data from one computer to the other. I plan to put my entire database on the laptop initially. I want to be able to add information to either one; mostly the laptop, while traveling for research purposes, and then transfer it to my tower computer. I know there has been much discussion concerning the importance, or lack of importance, of RINs and keeping them the same for each individual when info is transferred. Until I actually experience transferring and adding new data, then transferring it back to the other computer, I'd like to keep existing people with constant associated RINs and newly added people winding up with the same RINs after transfers in either direction. I'm afraid transferring the data via a GEDCOM won't maintain the RINs like I want them to. Can someone give me baby step instructions on what kind of files to create and how to transfer them. My tower has a CD-RW drive and my laptop has a DVD-CD ROM drive. I also have a 3.5" floppy drive in each computer, but using a backup file still takes more than one disk to hold the data. Thanks for your help. Dick Cazier Lakewood, Colorado USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dolly Ziegler" <dsz@bcpl.net> To: <PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 7:03 PM Subject: Re: [PAF-5] ?moving PAF to new computer > THANKS to Gary, Rollei, Ross, Larry, Bill L., Bill D., Theresa & Alan B. > for taking the time to offer suggestions on the various ways to do this. > I suspect we are not the only ones on list who are very much interested! > Cheers, Dolly in Maryland USA > > > ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== > FreeBMD - Free Access to England and Wales Civil Registration Index > Volunteer as a Transcriber Today! > http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > > ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== Replying to Posts When quoting a post you're replying to, omit signatures and taglines that are appended to the post.

Hi Group, Somehow I missed this thread or deleted it, thinking I didn't need to worry about it. I have now purchased a laptop computer to take with me on research trips. So I need to transfer/copy, or whatever term is appropriate, my master file (over 32,000 individuals) from my tower computer to my laptop. Both computers have Windows XP Home Edition, with Service Pack II installed. My need for help is about the following items. 1. Downloading PAF5. I have the setup file still on my tower computer desktop. Should I transfer that file to my laptop and install from there, or is it better to go directly to the website and download from there? 2. Moving Data from one computer to the other. I plan to put my entire database on the laptop initially. I want to be able to add information to either one; mostly the laptop, while traveling for research purposes, and then transfer it to my tower computer. I know there has been much discussion concerning the importance, or lack of importance, of RINs and keeping them the same for each individual when info is transferred. Until I actually experience transferring and adding new data, then transferring it back to the other computer, I'd like to keep existing people with constant associated RINs and newly added people winding up with the same RINs after transfers in either direction. I'm afraid transferring the data via a GEDCOM won't maintain the RINs like I want them to. Can someone give me baby step instructions on what kind of files to create and how to transfer them. My tower has a CD-RW drive and my laptop has a DVD-CD ROM drive. I also have a 3.5" floppy drive in each computer, but using a backup file still takes more than one disk to hold the data. Thanks for your help. Dick Cazier Lakewood, Colorado USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dolly Ziegler" <dsz@bcpl.net> To: <PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 7:03 PM Subject: Re: [PAF-5] ?moving PAF to new computer > THANKS to Gary, Rollei, Ross, Larry, Bill L., Bill D., Theresa & Alan B. > for taking the time to offer suggestions on the various ways to do this. > I suspect we are not the only ones on list who are very much interested! > Cheers, Dolly in Maryland USA > > > ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== > FreeBMD - Free Access to England and Wales Civil Registration Index > Volunteer as a Transcriber Today! > http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ > >

See inserted comments. Gary Templeman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Cazier" <dcazier@comcast.net> To: <PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [PAF-5] ?moving PAF to new computer > Hi Group, > Somehow I missed this thread or deleted it, thinking I didn't need to worry > about it. I have now purchased a laptop computer to take with me on > research trips. So I need to transfer/copy, or whatever term is > appropriate, my master file (over 32,000 individuals) from my tower computer > to my laptop. Both computers have Windows XP Home Edition, with Service > Pack II installed. My need for help is about the following items. > > 1. Downloading PAF5. I have the setup file still on my tower computer > desktop. Should I transfer that file to my laptop and install from there, > or is it better to go directly to the website and download from there? If you have a broadband connection it is probably a wash, but with dial-up it will definitely be faster to transfer from the desktop to the laptop. The file is the exact same file, so the source doesn't matter. The choice is totally your preference. BTW, I suggest making a folder on the hard drive (NOT on the desktop screen) called downloads, and store all the downloaded program installation files in sub-folders within the download folder. That will help uncluttered your desktop screen, and saving the install files means you don't have to navigate to the web site and download over again should you need to re-install (unless a program has been updated). > > 2. Moving Data from one computer to the other. I plan to put my entire > database on the laptop initially. I want to be able to add information to > either one; mostly the laptop, while traveling for research purposes, and > then transfer it to my tower computer. I know there has been much > discussion concerning the importance, or lack of importance, of RINs and > keeping them the same for each individual when info is transferred. Until I > actually experience transferring and adding new data, then transferring it > back to the other computer, I'd like to keep existing people with constant > associated RINs and newly added people winding up with the same RINs after > transfers in either direction. I'm afraid transferring the data via a > GEDCOM won't maintain the RINs like I want them to. Correct. Go to File_Backup and make a backup file, then take that file on a CDE, flash drive or the multiple floppies to the laptop, start PAF 5 and go to File_Restore. Select the file you just created (say, cazier.zip) and go through the restore process. It will transfer EXACTLY as you have it now, RIN's, etc. Remember to also manually transfer any folders of multimedia to the exact same path on the laptop if you want the links to work. > > Can someone give me baby step instructions on what kind of files to create > and how to transfer them. My tower has a CD-RW drive and my laptop has a > DVD-CD ROM drive. I also have a 3.5" floppy drive in each computer, but > using a backup file still takes more than one disk to hold the data. > > Thanks for your help. > Dick Cazier > Lakewood, Colorado > USA > The biggest potential problem I see is in keeping the data in sync. If you accidentally take a backup from the computer with older data and restore it on the one you have been using for data entry, all the new data will be wiped out. Even having a historical backup will not replace the lost entries. While it is possible to use something like PAF Insight to keep things in sync, it is definitely safer to pick one computer and stick with it, or be absolutely religious in keeping a record of which computer has the most current information if you do not want to be doing the same data entry 2 or more times. Gary

I also use WorldConnect and have been happy for the same reasons as Ken. I have made errors and sometimes things are posted that are a best guess. I will often state the guesses in the notes and even if I did not, folks should take anything without documentation as a guess and not fact. That is even true of books and claims in the media (maybe I shouldn't go there!). The information published often helps folks to the proper result, even if sometimes it is misleading. In genealogy, a guess is sometimes all that you will get with the elimination of records by fire and related issues. It sure would be nice to have the 1890 census available and some of the ones from 1800 that were burned in the War of 1812. Without those records, only reasonable guesses can be made. However, cross checking records to disprove a guess is as important as using records to prove the data. I have a lot of my family history recorded, but continually work on finding better (or any) documentation for what I have. I have met cousins through my posts that have been valuable. Sometimes folks have pointed out errors and suggested sources that indicate such. That kind of info is also great - it suggests a guess is wrong. I do not have the funds to travel all over the US and the world to collect detailed records, so the ability to exchange with others has been very useful. On-line genealogy has helped countless folks make advances in their lines that my grandfather could not have believed. He started our work, and both my brother and I have used it as a base for substantial expansion. I have my brick-walls and hope that some day I will see a post that may just be what I need to track the needed documentation. Thus, I agree with Ken - I am happy I posted my data on WorldConnent. Bill > Bottom line -- I'm happy I posted my data on WorldConnect. > > Ken

I would like to add a few points. Most of the kind people who try to provide a free service for posting our genealogies do not have unlimited wealth (and most of us don't want to pay for it) and so they often sell ads on their site to corporations to help support them. This is true of RootsWeb.com which is sponsored by Ancestry.com. It does not mean that the corporation has the genealogy that is posted, though since anyone could download it, I suppose everyone could have it. There is one site I know of that will accept our genealogy postings and they do not sell ad space, it is www.familysearch.org On that site the database PRF is the one we can contribute to. It is done under the SHARE tab. Of course lazy people may not provide their sources here too. Yes this site is sponsored by the LDS Church, but they never ever sell genealogy for profit. Regarding the lack of citations, a citation is anything telling where you got it. Saying "Mom told me" is a citation but I suspect you mean much more than that. I would love to see references to primary source documentation. Yes, many people are lazy and don't put citations in their postings. It is a shame, BUT I would like to argue that it still provided a great service. I accept the wonderful gifts I find where people have posted part of my family on the Internet as a map or guide post. I don't accept it as fact, but it gives me something to use to know where to look. Often without it I would be at a brickwall. Bottom line for me, is that I hope people will continue to post their genealogies to the internet, and I hope people will not accept things on the internet as absolute fact. Alan > From: "MJ" <genehunter@verizon.net> > Date: 2005/07/29 Fri AM 04:33:38 EDT > To: PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [PAF-5] Lack of Internet citations > > > Fact is that most genealogy on the internet is not documented and is > therefore highly suspect. I have found many errors in the indexes provided > for a fee by the major services. I have made many errors transcribing > census records that I put up on my website. The difference is that I > correct my errors when I find them. Commercial services do not. A citation > guides researchers to the source so they can evaluate the evidence for > themselves. Perhaps we ought to emphasize that citations are essential, and > not limply accept what is offered for a fee. > > We should insist that any commercial service provide a scanned image of the > record that they have indexed. Census images are easy: NARA microfilms are > in wide circulation. Commercial services are charging for tertiary documents > and are not even providing images of those. I have several military records > obtained from a commercial service that are based on indexes of databases of > indexes of genealogical societies. Can you say error boys and girls? > > I will never again contribute my research to any on-line sharing site. I did > that once and several months later, my info has not appeared on the site. > It disappeared into the cybervoid of volunteer-managed internet sites. > > Judging from my Google searching, most of the sites calling for submissions > are filled with misleading links to commercial services. I think that if I > submit my research to these sites, I am handing my work to a corporation > that will make money with my free information that they conned out of me. > > I could rant on and on about free access to public records that the people > paid taxes to the government so that it would keep the records. Instead, I > will recommend personal contact researcher to researcher, outside of the > corporate-sponsored mailing lists. And INSIST on a citation. Anyone who > cannot provide a citation is not a researcher. > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.4/57 - Release Date: 7/22/2005 > > > > ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== > AVG Anti-Virus Users > Disable the 'Certify outgoing messages' option via the E-mail Scanner tab. > >

Richard Rands wrote: > At 04:33 AM 7/29/2005 -0400, MJ wrote: > >> I could rant on and on about free access to public records that the >> people >> paid taxes to the government so that it would keep the records. >> Instead, I >> will recommend personal contact researcher to researcher, outside of the >> corporate-sponsored mailing lists. And INSIST on a citation. Anyone who >> cannot provide a citation is not a researcher. > > > As the principal author of the SV-CGG's Documentation Guidelines, I too > advocate solid documentation, but I would never go so far as to > effectively cut off access to the undocumented information that more > often than not contains just enough of a hint that can narrow a search > for an original source, or that may be a discrepancy that triggers the > search for a better source. 100% accuracy is the ideal, but we > certainly do not live in an ideal world. Agreed -- one never knows what the researcher's issue was in not providing documentation ... by definition, there IS documentation because darn few of us would waste the time and effort necessary to make up out of whole cloth a 10 generation pedigree! It's no where near as easy as it sounds. If one's research resources include "Grandmother Lawfull's diary", there's not a lot of POINT to citing it because the number of folks who will have access to it to verify it are vanishingly small, yet Grandmother surely knew when her youngest baby died. Ditto, "Private Communication" which is as it says, private and therefore not subject to verification or refutation. In the case of hard-copy publications, often the cost of publishing it deters the inclusion of sourcing. (See, for instance, my own "The History of the Cresaps, 3rd ed" which covers 12 generations between 1695 and 2000 and is just under 1100 pages with no source citations in sight. I've GOT sources for most of it, but printing a half-line of information and 3 lines of source citation seemed excessive even if it hadn't pushed the book into three volumes.) In the case of on-line publication, the amount of server-space one is willing to pay for, or is allowed free, may contribute to the decision. That Unsourced Cresap History eats up more than 8M of space. Sources are good; data is better. (g) A good researcher can always find supporting documents if he's interested and has data to start with. Cheryl

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > At 04:33 AM 7/29/2005 -0400, MJ wrote: > >>I could rant on and on about free access to public records that the people >>paid taxes to the government so that it would keep the records. Instead, I >>will recommend personal contact researcher to researcher, outside of the >>corporate-sponsored mailing lists. And INSIST on a citation. Anyone who >>cannot provide a citation is not a researcher. > > First off, I have downloaded gedcoms that contained no documentation for the simple reason that it often has provided me with a clue of where to look for the needed information. After all, in most cases, people do have a reason for the information they put in their individual records. NEVER are these gedcoms imported into my database but rather reside in their own files which I can examine whenever I wish. Secondly, sad experience has taught me that even "official" records can be wrong. My grandfather's death certificate is an example although it is a secondary source for his birth. The informant was his wife and she certainly was of sound mind and in possession of the correct information regarding her husband's place of birth. However, that didn't prevent the recorder from listing "Austria" as his birthplace when, in reality, it was Ostergötland, Sweden! Fortunately, my father was still living when I received this record and, as he looked at it, he declared that the "recorder" was "the town drunk who couldn't spell his own name" and we decided that the beginning sound of the two places (Austria and Ostergötland) were similar. <g> The only place I've uploaded my files is on familysearch.org to the Pedigree Resource File. Is all my information documented? No, but I continue to search for the missing documentation and have made contact with individuals who, viewing my files, have recognized a possible connection and we both have benefited from the upload. By comparing notes I have often been able to find the missing documentation. Yes, my information is then put out on cd's that are not free but considering all the information the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints makes available to the world at no cost whatsoever, I still think it's the greatest bargain in the world. Just my opinion, of course. Beverly -- Mailto:kngsldy@cableone.net Families are Forever!

Please taike me off of this list. Paf-5-users-L@rootsweb.com Thank you. Deborah Creighton

Hi Tony The responses so far have been pretty negative so I thought I'd insert a bit of balance ;o)) I've had my data posted on WorldConnect for several years and have been happy that I posted it. 1. I've been contacted by several "cousins" and we've exchanged information on branches of the family tree. 2. WorldConnect is part on Ancestry.COM -- but (so far) they have never "harvested" data to sell. 3. By including my sources on WorldConnect people can go to the sources to verify my data. As hard as it for me to admit -- I sometimes make errors. I occasionally will get a question about where I found a date or event. 4. By using the WorldConnect software to "Protect the Living" -- I have a Doomsday backup of my data. Many of the negatives cited in earlier responses are valid for everyday situations (Not Just WorldConnect) and are common sense. Bottom line -- I'm happy I posted my data on WorldConnect. Regards, Ken Guilette South Barrington, IL ----- Original Message ----- From: Anthony Roberts To: PAF-5-USERS-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 4:52 PM Subject: [PAF-5] Gedcom sharing/worldconnect I am interested in others views on world connect and sharing gedcom files. Worldconnect is a rootsweb/ancestry.com site that allows you to place your gedcom data on the web, where others can search from it. There is an option which you can turn on or off which allows users to download your gedcom. Do people here you this site? I do, because it increases the likelihood of finding people with common ancestors who may be able to share research. I also like the fact that my research is "published", in case unforseeable events mean that me and my gedcom file vanish. However there are downsides as well. Sometimes there are 20 or 30 entries for a single soul (20 or 30 people have the person in there tree), and it is hard to determine who, if anyone actually did the research, so you can follow up on it. Ideally each entry should be documented, so that you can repeat the research more easily if you need to. On numerous occasions I have contacted owners and found that no little about person, they just copied the person undocumented into their tree as they were distantly related (I guess bigger is better?). For this reason I don't make my gedcom downloadable - I don't want vaguely interested people pasting my entire gedcom into theirs. If someone came looking to share information on an ancestor and encountered the 29 people who only have a vague interest, they might never get to me.I sometimes get requests for my gedcom from people who I have not shared any research with, and I do not know how to politely convey my feelings on these issues. I am happy to share my gedcom with people who care about documentation, will not extract holus bolus data from it, and won't keep propogating it. One copy on the web seems enough. Do other people feel this way? Am I just being a stinge and unfriendly? If the shoe were on the other foot, if someone had some beautifully researched and documented line of mine I would certainly like to incorporate that line in my tree (for printing trees and reports etc). A second downside of using worldconnect is that ancestry.com emails me every so often and asks me if I want to pay to read my database ("Anthony, we have found an ancestor of yours, please pay us to expand your tree"). It annoys me that I place my data for tree and ancestry tries to hock it off for money, without saying it is available on worldconnect (where they must have sourced the names I'm talking about) for free. I am interested in your views on these matters. Cheers, Tony ==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== PAF @ FamilySearch Internet Genealogy Service http://www.familysearch.org/eng/paf/

At 04:33 AM 7/29/2005 -0400, MJ wrote: >I could rant on and on about free access to public records that the people >paid taxes to the government so that it would keep the records. Instead, I >will recommend personal contact researcher to researcher, outside of the >corporate-sponsored mailing lists. And INSIST on a citation. Anyone who >cannot provide a citation is not a researcher. As the principal author of the SV-CGG's Documentation Guidelines, I too advocate solid documentation, but I would never go so far as to effectively cut off access to the undocumented information that more often than not contains just enough of a hint that can narrow a search for an original source, or that may be a discrepancy that triggers the search for a better source. 100% accuracy is the ideal, but we certainly do not live in an ideal world. Richard Rands

Fact is that most genealogy on the internet is not documented and is therefore highly suspect. I have found many errors in the indexes provided for a fee by the major services. I have made many errors transcribing census records that I put up on my website. The difference is that I correct my errors when I find them. Commercial services do not. A citation guides researchers to the source so they can evaluate the evidence for themselves. Perhaps we ought to emphasize that citations are essential, and not limply accept what is offered for a fee. We should insist that any commercial service provide a scanned image of the record that they have indexed. Census images are easy: NARA microfilms are in wide circulation. Commercial services are charging for tertiary documents and are not even providing images of those. I have several military records obtained from a commercial service that are based on indexes of databases of indexes of genealogical societies. Can you say error boys and girls? I will never again contribute my research to any on-line sharing site. I did that once and several months later, my info has not appeared on the site. It disappeared into the cybervoid of volunteer-managed internet sites. Judging from my Google searching, most of the sites calling for submissions are filled with misleading links to commercial services. I think that if I submit my research to these sites, I am handing my work to a corporation that will make money with my free information that they conned out of me. I could rant on and on about free access to public records that the people paid taxes to the government so that it would keep the records. Instead, I will recommend personal contact researcher to researcher, outside of the corporate-sponsored mailing lists. And INSIST on a citation. Anyone who cannot provide a citation is not a researcher. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.4/57 - Release Date: 7/22/2005

Joan's message just reinforces one of the first rules of good genealogy--do the research and prove or disprove any fact you receive from anyone else. Pat At 07:28 PM 7/28/2005, Joan Lowrey wrote: >Everyone beware! Some people have acknowledged that they intentionally >insert some wrong dates, etc., in the data they upload to any database or >post to their own websites, so they can tell if someone has copied >(stolen) from them > >Joan Lowrey > > >At 05:59 PM 7/28/05 -0400, Patricia J Weisshaus wrote: >>There was one fellow that I contacted because of his entry in >>WorldConnect because he supposedly had a date that I had been looking for >>quite awhile. His response was that he had thrown it in to see if he got >>any reponses that would help him!]] >> >>End of contact! >> >>Pat > > > >==== PAF-5-USERS Mailing List ==== >PAF-5-USERS Mailing List Archives >http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/PAF-5-USERS/

At a certain point, you HAVE to share living info to be certain you're dealing with the same line ... and once you "share", you have NO control over what the other person does with it. Cheryl Jennifer Jackson wrote: > I do not understand why people would do this. Why don't they want to > share with others? I don't mind sharing my information as along as > the living people's information is protected. > > Jennifer > > On 7/28/05, Joan Lowrey <joanlowr@pacbell.net> wrote: > >>Everyone beware! Some people have acknowledged that they intentionally >>insert some wrong dates, etc., in the data they upload to any database or >>post to their own websites, so they can tell if someone has copied (stolen) >>from them >> >>Joan Lowrey >> >> >>At 05:59 PM 7/28/05 -0400, Patricia J Weisshaus wrote: >> >>>There was one fellow that I contacted because of his entry in WorldConnect >>>because he supposedly had a date that I had been looking for quite awhile. >>>His response was that he had thrown it in to see if he got any reponses >>>that would help him!]] >>> >>>End of contact! >>> >>>Pat

Yep, I sometimes did that. It might not keep other people honest, but it DOES keep me from taking their material as additional support for my own. I've already got four places where I can't tell "who published first" so I can't tell whether they are quoting us or we are quoting them. Cheryl Joan Lowrey wrote: > Everyone beware! Some people have acknowledged that they intentionally > insert some wrong dates, etc., in the data they upload to any database > or post to their own websites, so they can tell if someone has copied > (stolen) from them > > Joan Lowrey > > > At 05:59 PM 7/28/05 -0400, Patricia J Weisshaus wrote: > >> There was one fellow that I contacted because of his entry in >> WorldConnect because he supposedly had a date that I had been looking >> for quite awhile. His response was that he had thrown it in to see if >> he got any reponses that would help him!]] >> >> End of contact! >> >> Pat