My source sent me a snippet of information that definitively identifies Lt. Johannes Wagner of Cumru and wife Susannah as mine. "In the meantime, I wanted to let you know quickly that I have a document you will want to see. ... "A Brief History concerning Lt. John and Susannah Wagner and Michael and Barbara Werner and their Descendants." Susannah's name is given as Lees." Below is the proof that he was of the Wagner family that are my ancestors, and also of close links to the Keim and Schneider families of some kind. Can someone please tell me more about this Lt Johannes Wagner of Cumru and his family? Ny source can't get that document to me for atleast two weeks - and it may contain only info on Lt Johannes' wife and children. I'm probably interested in the man's parents, siblings (and their spouses) and first cousins. One thing - it is pretty obvious from the records that if Lt. Johannes WAgner and wife Susannah Liesz lived in Cumru, then they wouldn't have gone near the Welsh Baptists if their lives depended on it - they were travelling to Alsace, Exeter and Reading to attend church. Don't know exactly how Henry and Elisabeth concealed themselves prior to 1782, though - unless of course, they simply attended Spies Church which kept burning down. I expect to spend the entire holiday weekend (no work tomorrow) working on my Schneider clan (Keim, Hoch, and other allied families) data base. Yours, Dora Smith Philip Burkhart of Alsace m on 7/23/1804 Barbara Wagner of Alsace, at Trinity Lutheran or Schwarzwald Church. They had Lydia Ann Burkhart, who m Gilbert Dehart - my ancestors. Had John B. Dehart m Mary Weiss. Barbara Burkhart's death certificate states that her husband was Philip Burkhart, her parents were Henry and Elizabeth Wagner, and she was born on 3/14/1775, and died on 12/17/1855, of consumption. (like a number of Burkharts around) Philip Burkhart died in 1823 and left his "plantation" or large farm in Alsace, with its forge and mill, mentioned wife Barbara and several of his children. The 1790 census shows Philip Burkhart on his farm in Alsace with a woman about his age and a small girl and three servants. Philip Burkhart acquired his land from Samuel Burkhart, on 8/31/1796. He acquired more land from Samuel Burkhart's estate via the sheriff, on 4/24/1805. On Feb 23, 1795, Samuel Burkhart acquired land fro George Hill in Cumru township. On 2/24/1802 he acquired land from John Bishop of or in Alsace township. (This is interesting, those are two more Schneider clan members.) Other people mentioned in these deeds, Spohn, Witman, Michael Meyer, also sound likely to have been related to the Schneiders - and Witman turns up again in Philip Burkhart's will. Along with Baird, which is also in the Keim-Schneider-Hoch trees somewhere. On Sep 7, 1796, Adam Leiss acquired land from Samuel Burkhart "Asgmt" and also acquired land in Alsace township. Philip Burkhart's will named Benneville Keim an executor, called him a "friend". Benneville Keim was Schneider clan. Many of these people were Hoch clan, too. Most of these records from Schwarzwald's. That doesn't necessarily mean the people attended Schwarzwald as the ministers of that church got around and kept their records with Schwarzwald's. 4/1/1777 John Waggoner m Susannah Lieze of Exeter township, Berks Co. 3/17/1782 Johannes Wagener the son of Johannes b 10/11/1781 sponsor the father. Paul Jung son of Christina and ___ b 11/9/1781 bapt 8/24/1782 sp Henrich Wagner, wife Elisabetha. Elizabeth Wagener dau Johannes and ____ b 5/6/1783 bapt 10/6/1783 sp Elizabeth Lies. 1784 Susanna Wagner b 25 Feb 1784 Frist Reformed in Reading daughter of Henrich and Elizabeth Wagner. sponsors; Susanna and Johannes Wagner. Anna Maria Schneider dau Conrad and ____ b 2/16/1793 apt 6/30/1793 sp Philip Lies, Ann Marie Kelchner. Magdalena Lies da Peter and wife b 8/17 bapt 9/28/1787 of Exeter Oley (Salem) Ref Ch Child of Contrath and Mareda Schneider b 1/13/1787 sp Elias Wagner and Eva. Catherina Ritter dau Frantz and ___, b 2/23/1785 bapt 4/9/1785 sp Jacob Schneider, Susanna Jung. Samuel Ritter son of Frantz and ____ (Barbara Schneider) b 3/27/1792 bapt 4/7/1793 at Schwarzwalkd, sp Henrich Wagner. Jacob Schneider was m to Anna Maria Jung. Barbara Schneider who m Frantz Ritter was the daughter of Peter Schneider and Eva Appolonia Jung. Anna Maria the daughter of Adam Jung of Exeter d 1794 was married at that time to John Schneider (Adam Jung's will, the same one that states that Adam Jung was his son). 12/23/1788 Peter Schneider m Catherina Jung of Exeter. 2/14/1789 Jacob Schneider m Anna Maria Ritter of Exeter, Berks, at Shwarzwald. 2/14/1777 b Elizbetha dau Jacob Wagner. witnesses Maria Wagner, Valentine Schneider. Wagner George d Exeter 1805 administration to widow Susanna (alot of Wagner girls as well as Barbara the daughter of Henry and Elizabeth of Alsace got married out of Exeter and Alsace 1789 through 1810.) Benneville and George Keim as well as being closely related to the Schneiders, just kind of executed everyone's estates of the Schneider clan and served as guardians for their children - that kind of thing. Yours, Dora Smith __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/