Dear listers, A most enjoyable discussion. > Incidentally, 1793-99 tax records for Tyrone Township list not only Christian Gumber, but also a John >Gumber (his missing father????) and a Valentine Gumber. A William Gumber witnessed at least two >legal documents for Christian. I surmise Christian's son William was named for this William. Tyrone township from sometime before the 1800 census had another Gamber group: Frederick Gamber born 07 December 1747 Oberhochstadt, Pfalz, his brother Valentine born 28 April 1754 Tulpehocken, Berks Co, PA, William Gamber born 07 February 1761 Lancaster, PA, and their families. These three were the sons of Wilbert Gamber baptized 09 May 1717 Niederhochstadt, Pfalz. (The family actually lived in the other half of the village, Oberhochstadt.) Wilbert with wife and three children arrived in Philadelphia on the ship Dragon from Rotterdam on 17 Oct 1749. He settled in Pine Grove twp, Berks (now Schuylkill) co, PA, though the family moved around a bit due to Indian Wars. Wilbert apparently died in Pine Grove after 1785 and his sons moved on. > You also mentioned in another message on this board that Johann Gamber, William's grandfather, came to >PA in 1732 as an indentured servant. Most researchers I've read are unsure of Johann's arrival in the US, >and as a result, it is questioned whether his son Christian (b. circa 1740) was born in Germany or in PA. I have another suggestion for the origin of Johannes Gumbert (or Gamber as he appears in a 1775 property record for Maidencreek twp Berks co). Wilbert arrived with a Johannes, likely a brother from Hochstadt. (Hacker transcribes the name "Oberlustadt", which is an error.) Maidencreek is maybe 15 - 20 miles from Pine Grove. Johannes reportedly arrived with three children. That sons of Wilbert and sons of Johannes should later end up in the same township on the other side of the Susquehanna suggests a relationship. Another point: the Johannes Gamber who arrived Philadelphia on Pleasant 11 Oct 1732 was 32. It would be unusual for him to still be alive after 1790. Regards, Dan Gamber www.gamber.net/gamber/