This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: ThomasCArnold Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.pennsylvania.counties.cumberland/5494.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Marsha, Is this the family your researching.... 1880 Census 1st Ward, Carlisle, Cumberland, Pennsylvania Elizabeth CRAMER Self W Female W 46 BAVARIA BAVARIA BAVARIA John W. CRAMER Son S Male W 19 PA Laborer PA PA Annie C. CRAMER Dau S Female W 18 PA At Home PA PA Walter CRAMER Son S Male W 1M PA PA PA Have you tried, the 1860 or 1870 census or the marriage license for John and Alice. Do you have any other info. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.