First, the HS did not want to move from the second floor of the public library, and did not do so by choice. The library wanted to expand, and basically told us to find another facility. After lengthy negotiaitons, and through the generosity of the Barco/Duratz family, we were able to relocate to the new building. The layout is different, and it does not appear as spacious as the old facility, but we are happy to be in a modern building at a central location in town, roughly two blocks from the court house, with some off-street parking, which we did not have in the past. Contrary to what as been mentioned, we do have furniture. There are tables and chairs, shelves, and more on order, if I remember correctly. I cannot imagine why anyone had to stand for two hours, and I am sure the staff would have found seating for the visitor, had they known. I know that many of the major genealogical/historical societies charge entrance fees. Western Reserve HS has been doing this for years, and charges substantially more. Our $5.00 fee is about the price of two cups of coffee at some fancy coffee shop, I think. The decision to charge an entrance fee was discussed at length. It did not come about because of "poor planning, decision making, or over an emotionally charged issue." The HS gets no public funding. We still have to pay for utilities, maintenance, supplies, etc., etc., and a small entrance fee is one of the few ways we have to cover those costs. We do pursue and obtain grants, but these are usually for specific things - evaluation of the railroad collection, for example, or publication of a specific book. The grants do not cover daily operating expenses. We do have some local fundraising events, but out-of-town researchers would most likely not be involved in those. I am sorry that someone was startled and offended by the change, and I agree that the fee should be clearly posted at the door. Otherwise, unfounded insinuations about the HS, its planning, organization, motivation, etc., do not really offer any positive input. Annette Lynch >From: "Rick Polaski" <r.polaski@att.net> >Reply-To: PACRAWFO-L@rootsweb.com >To: PACRAWFO-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: Fw: [PACRAWFO] NEW FEES - Crawford County Historical Society >Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:50:01 -0500 > > > Pardon my soap box for a minute. > >I have in the past and currently belong to a number of organization(s) that >provide quite a bit >of service for free to many people that have fallen on hard times or simply >can not afford much.. I'm not trying to criticize an organization of >dedicated volunteers, but being a dedicated volunteer I personally would >have a hard time imposing a >fee because poor planning, decision making, or over an emotionally charged >issue. > >I feel that if you make a decision, because you do not like your >surroundings or how things are handled, it >should not be up to the rest of us to pay for that decision. > Not everyone has the where with all to pay. > >I originally sent out an email to try to find out what people think and >also >to see if anyone could put the >situation into proper perspective. >In light of the absence of this information it seems what your saying is >that this information should be for those fortunate enough to be able to >afford this fee no matter how it was arrived at. > >Also Erie, Just up the road from Meadville ( 45 miles north on I 90) has a >Historical Society with a free library, the only fee is 0.30 cents per >photocopy. How can they obtain this level of service, for free, such a >short >distance away and Crawford County Historical can not? >It still comes down to this for me, are we being charged for poor >decisions? >Back in October the Historical Society Library was located in the Meadville >Public Library ( info from this list October 2003). Why the move? Did the >Library need more room? What was the issue for the Move? > >I do not mind paying the $5 for supporting any program, I also pay for my >own mistakes and I'm not looking for a free ride. I also pay taxes, like >everyone else, some of the tax money is returned in the form of grants for >programs like this. I believe I read a while ago Crawford County >Historical >received some of these funds. What is really going on? > >Rick > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "David Palmer" <dpalmer@shentel.net> >To: <PACRAWFO-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 10:49 AM >Subject: Re: Fw: [PACRAWFO] NEW FEES - Crawford County Historical Society > > > > Sounds like too many people are looking for a free ride. The most you >have to > > pay is $15 a year. Even one visit would be worth that to me. Instead >of > > criticizing an organization of dedicated volunteers, how about giving >them some > > financial and moral support for all the good work they do? > > Dave Palmer > > Mount Jackson, Virginia > > > > Rick Polaski wrote: > > > > > I'm Sorry Darla, I meant to send this to the List. > > > > > > > I wonder why Erie can have a massive library at their Historical >Society > > > and > > > > Meadville can not. > > > > Is it because of mis management, failure to plan, no grant writing > > > > committee. Correct me if I'm wrong, but > > > > didn't the CCHS have a falling out with their former host. With this >in > > > mind > > > > it sounds if everyone will pay > > > > for some bad decisions. If this is true I would have a hard time >shelling > > > > out $5 every visit. > > > > What does anyone think? > > > > > > > > Rick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Darla Mader" <dsmader@qwest.net> > > > > To: <PACRAWFO-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 10:18 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [PACRAWFO] NEW FEES - Crawford County Historical >Society > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with you Rob. I have never been able to go to Crawford >County > > > > > PA and I am a $15 dollar a year member too. I'm sure that they >have > > > > > expenses in the new place and I would be happy to pay $5 to get in >the > > > > > door. > > > > > > > > > > Darla Mader > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: waltonrp@bellsouth.net [mailto:waltonrp@bellsouth.net] > > > > > Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 6:33 PM > > > > > To: PACRAWFO-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [PACRAWFO] NEW FEES - Crawford County Historical >Society > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have to say that everytime I have been at the Historical >Society, >the > > > > > information that I was able to research was definately worth $5. I >live > > > > > near > > > > > Miami, and plan to visit Crawford this year, I'll just become a >member. > > > > > $15 > > > > > a year is a pretty good deal for all the information that they >archive > > > > > there. They should have charged a long time ago IMO. > > > > > > > > > > Rob WALTON > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just FYI, for all of you who have used or plan to use the >Crawford > > > > > County Historical Society - they now charge a $5.00 admission fee. >They > > > > > have not widely publicized this, but since their move to the new > > > > > facility, this formerly free and open society is on the fast track >to > > > > > extinction. The new facility is smaller and much less user >friendly > > > > > than the old one. I had to work standing up for almost 2 hours. > > > > > > > > > > > > Having been there for 2 months now, they still have yet to put a >sign > > > > > out in front of the building. Even the paper sign on the door >mentions > > > > > nothing about the new entrance fee, but they approach you >immediately > > > > > upon entrance to demand it. > > > > > > > > > > > > I won't be visiting there again anytime soon, and will never >again > > > > > donate my work to them. It is sad to see the society go into >decline so > > > > > quickly. I would not be surprised to see them close permanently >before > > > > > long. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== PACRAWFO Mailing List ==== > > > > > ~ SUBJECT LINES ~ > > > > > Think about it!! A picture's worth 1000 words; a Subject Line >more! >The > > > > > 4 W's: Who? What? When? and Where? Don't leave home without 'em! > > > > > > > > > > ============================== > > > > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new >Immigration > > > > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== PACRAWFO Mailing List ==== > > > > > Looking for your ancestors in Crawford County? Visit the Crawford > > > County, > > > > PA USGenWeb site at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~pacrawfo > > > > > > > > > > ============================== > > > > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new >Immigration > > > > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== PACRAWFO Mailing List ==== > > > ~ SUBJECT LINES ~ > > > Think about it!! A picture's worth 1000 words; a Subject Line more! >The > > > 4 W's: Who? What? When? and Where? Don't leave home without 'em! > > > > > > ============================== > > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > ==== PACRAWFO Mailing List ==== > > Looking for your ancestors in Crawford County? Visit the Crawford >County, >PA USGenWeb site at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~pacrawfo > > > > ============================== > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > >==== PACRAWFO Mailing List ==== >Looking for your ancestors in Crawford County? Visit the Crawford County, >PA USGenWeb site at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~pacrawfo > >============================== >Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration >Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > _________________________________________________________________ Take off on a romantic weekend or a family adventure to these great U.S. locations. http://special.msn.com/local/hotdestinations.armx

I believe that I will end with the following. Thanks to all I've enjoyed the discussion. I do not believe that I made any insinuations. If so please point them out. I was asking questions and did not intend to insinuate. It seems ambiguous to say the Library wanted to expand so we had to go. If the Library was going to expand there would be more room added on correct?, or am I missing what an expansion is? Or were they expanding room by the removal of the HS? Would not most libraries appreciate having this type of information for their patrons? The Albion Pa library has just accepted a large donation of Genealogy data. I'm not positive but I believe they even put it in the local rag. How can you say HS did not do so by choice and then go on to quote that there was no " emotionally charged issue". Being asked to leave when it was not by choice did not evoke any emotions? After what you have explained it seems to me that some one would have been upset. No poor planning? It is obvious that there was no contingency plan. Let me understand this correctly, you have access to a facility with free rent and it never crossed anybody's mind that this gift would one day end? If the HS was paying rent I couldn't imagine that the Library would rid itself of funding. Currently most libraries seem to be screaming for funding. You go on to mention that large Historical Societies have cover charges, that's great. But they are also dealing with a larger scale operation. There was no comment on how Erie HS could run their operation with out a cover charge, I'm sure their organization is close to the same scale as Crawford County HS,this seemed to be conveniently omitted. I have done some grant writing and you can have daily operating expenses covered with some grants, you can ask for anything in a grant, it is how the subject is approached. I believe the same can be said with public funding. Also, there was a lot of positive input that was generated by the many emails over this issue. If you are a member of the Historical Society you have just received a number of opinions of potential customers, for free. This should be quite valuable. Maybe we should thank Jeff and everyone else that chimed in on the discussion for their opinion. You now have some idea how people feel Is the glass half empty or half full? Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Annette Lynch" <all_lynch@hotmail.com> To: <PACRAWFO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 9:34 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [PACRAWFO] NEW FEES - Crawford County Historical Society > First, the HS did not want to move from the second floor of the public > library, and did not do so by choice. The library wanted to expand, and > basically told us to find another facility. After lengthy negotiaitons, and > through the generosity of the Barco/Duratz family, we were able to relocate > to the new building. The layout is different, and it does not appear as > spacious as the old facility, but we are happy to be in a modern building at > a central location in town, roughly two blocks from the court house, with > some off-street parking, which we did not have in the past. > > Contrary to what as been mentioned, we do have furniture. There are tables > and chairs, shelves, and more on order, if I remember correctly. I cannot > imagine why anyone had to stand for two hours, and I am sure the staff would > have found seating for the visitor, had they known. > > I know that many of the major genealogical/historical societies charge > entrance fees. Western Reserve HS has been doing this for years, and > charges substantially more. Our $5.00 fee is about the price of two cups of > coffee at some fancy coffee shop, I think. The decision to charge an > entrance fee was discussed at length. It did not come about because of > "poor planning, decision making, or over an emotionally charged issue." > > The HS gets no public funding. We still have to pay for utilities, > maintenance, supplies, etc., etc., and a small entrance fee is one of the > few ways we have to cover those costs. We do pursue and obtain grants, but > these are usually for specific things - evaluation of the railroad > collection, for example, or publication of a specific book. The grants do > not cover daily operating expenses. We do have some local fundraising > events, but out-of-town researchers would most likely not be involved in > those. > > I am sorry that someone was startled and offended by the change, and I agree > that the fee should be clearly posted at the door. Otherwise, unfounded > insinuations about the HS, its planning, organization, motivation, etc., do > not really offer any positive input. > > Annette Lynch > > > > > >From: "Rick Polaski" <r.polaski@att.net> > >Reply-To: PACRAWFO-L@rootsweb.com > >To: PACRAWFO-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: Re: Fw: [PACRAWFO] NEW FEES - Crawford County Historical Society > >Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:50:01 -0500 > > > > > > Pardon my soap box for a minute. > > > >I have in the past and currently belong to a number of organization(s) that > >provide quite a bit > >of service for free to many people that have fallen on hard times or simply > >can not afford much.. I'm not trying to criticize an organization of > >dedicated volunteers, but being a dedicated volunteer I personally would > >have a hard time imposing a > >fee because poor planning, decision making, or over an emotionally charged > >issue. > > > >I feel that if you make a decision, because you do not like your > >surroundings or how things are handled, it > >should not be up to the rest of us to pay for that decision. > > Not everyone has the where with all to pay. > > > >I originally sent out an email to try to find out what people think and > >also > >to see if anyone could put the > >situation into proper perspective. > >In light of the absence of this information it seems what your saying is > >that this information should be for those fortunate enough to be able to > >afford this fee no matter how it was arrived at. > > > >Also Erie, Just up the road from Meadville ( 45 miles north on I 90) has a > >Historical Society with a free library, the only fee is 0.30 cents per > >photocopy. How can they obtain this level of service, for free, such a > >short > >distance away and Crawford County Historical can not? > >It still comes down to this for me, are we being charged for poor > >decisions? > >Back in October the Historical Society Library was located in the Meadville > >Public Library ( info from this list October 2003). Why the move? Did the > >Library need more room? What was the issue for the Move? > > > >I do not mind paying the $5 for supporting any program, I also pay for my > >own mistakes and I'm not looking for a free ride. I also pay taxes, like > >everyone else, some of the tax money is returned in the form of grants for > >programs like this. I believe I read a while ago Crawford County > >Historical > >received some of these funds. What is really going on? > > > >Rick > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "David Palmer" <dpalmer@shentel.net> > >To: <PACRAWFO-L@rootsweb.com> > >Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 10:49 AM > >Subject: Re: Fw: [PACRAWFO] NEW FEES - Crawford County Historical Society > > > > > > > Sounds like too many people are looking for a free ride. The most you > >have to > > > pay is $15 a year. Even one visit would be worth that to me. Instead > >of > > > criticizing an organization of dedicated volunteers, how about giving > >them some > > > financial and moral support for all the good work they do? > > > Dave Palmer > > > Mount Jackson, Virginia > > > > > > Rick Polaski wrote: > > > > > > > I'm Sorry Darla, I meant to send this to the List. > > > > > > > > > I wonder why Erie can have a massive library at their Historical > >Society > > > > and > > > > > Meadville can not. > > > > > Is it because of mis management, failure to plan, no grant writing > > > > > committee. Correct me if I'm wrong, but > > > > > didn't the CCHS have a falling out with their former host. With this > >in > > > > mind > > > > > it sounds if everyone will pay > > > > > for some bad decisions. If this is true I would have a hard time > >shelling > > > > > out $5 every visit. > > > > > What does anyone think? > > > > > > > > > > Rick > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Darla Mader" <dsmader@qwest.net> > > > > > To: <PACRAWFO-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 10:18 PM > > > > > Subject: RE: [PACRAWFO] NEW FEES - Crawford County Historical > >Society > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with you Rob. I have never been able to go to Crawford > >County > > > > > > PA and I am a $15 dollar a year member too. I'm sure that they > >have > > > > > > expenses in the new place and I would be happy to pay $5 to get in > >the > > > > > > door. > > > > > > > > > > > > Darla Mader > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: waltonrp@bellsouth.net [mailto:waltonrp@bellsouth.net] > > > > > > Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 6:33 PM > > > > > > To: PACRAWFO-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Subject: Re: [PACRAWFO] NEW FEES - Crawford County Historical > >Society > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have to say that everytime I have been at the Historical > >Society, > >the > > > > > > information that I was able to research was definately worth $5. I > >live > > > > > > near > > > > > > Miami, and plan to visit Crawford this year, I'll just become a > >member. > > > > > > $15 > > > > > > a year is a pretty good deal for all the information that they > >archive > > > > > > there. They should have charged a long time ago IMO. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob WALTON > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just FYI, for all of you who have used or plan to use the > >Crawford > > > > > > County Historical Society - they now charge a $5.00 admission fee. > >They > > > > > > have not widely publicized this, but since their move to the new > > > > > > facility, this formerly free and open society is on the fast track > >to > > > > > > extinction. The new facility is smaller and much less user > >friendly > > > > > > than the old one. I had to work standing up for almost 2 hours. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having been there for 2 months now, they still have yet to put a > >sign > > > > > > out in front of the building. Even the paper sign on the door > >mentions > > > > > > nothing about the new entrance fee, but they approach you > >immediately > > > > > > upon entrance to demand it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I won't be visiting there again anytime soon, and will never > >again > > > > > > donate my work to them. It is sad to see the society go into > >decline so > > > > > > quickly. I would not be surprised to see them close permanently > >before > > > > > > long. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== PACRAWFO Mailing List ==== > > > > > > ~ SUBJECT LINES ~ > > > > > > Think about it!! A picture's worth 1000 words; a Subject Line > >more! > >The > > > > > > 4 W's: Who? What? When? and Where? Don't leave home without 'em! > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================== > > > > > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new > >Immigration > > > > > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > > > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== PACRAWFO Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Looking for your ancestors in Crawford County? Visit the Crawford > > > > County, > > > > > PA USGenWeb site at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~pacrawfo > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================== > > > > > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new > >Immigration > > > > > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > > > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== PACRAWFO Mailing List ==== > > > > ~ SUBJECT LINES ~ > > > > Think about it!! A picture's worth 1000 words; a Subject Line more! > >The > > > > 4 W's: Who? What? When? and Where? Don't leave home without 'em! > > > > > > > > ============================== > > > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > ==== PACRAWFO Mailing List ==== > > > Looking for your ancestors in Crawford County? Visit the Crawford > >County, > >PA USGenWeb site at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~pacrawfo > > > > > > ============================== > > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== PACRAWFO Mailing List ==== > >Looking for your ancestors in Crawford County? Visit the Crawford County, > >PA USGenWeb site at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~pacrawfo > > > >============================== > >Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > >Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Take off on a romantic weekend or a family adventure to these great U.S. > locations. http://special.msn.com/local/hotdestinations.armx > > > ==== PACRAWFO Mailing List ==== > ROLL CALLS? Not permitted unless instituted by the List Admin. But post > your interests and areas of search often. New members join every day. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >