Thank you everyone for getting upset about the attitude problem at the Delaware County courthouse! I had a similar experience at the Mifflin County Courthouse, trying to obtain a copy of a probate file. Below is all of the discussion about it on the list. Even though I'd written partly in response to two other people with similar problems who never got any response from the list, the people on the list were very snotty, and lectured me on how the clerk's office are swamped with work and can't do genealogical research all day, and how great the staff there are. Now, I knew the date of death, the town, the clerk did tell me they do have a probate file on her, so presumably they know where it is ; I wanted only a copy. I couldn't find or else two more replies I got were private, lecturing me for expecting those busy people to "spend their day doing genealogical research", and how wonderful and helpful those people are - if you can go there in person! And noone ever did take me up on my effort to swap services for someone copying my probate file for me. I have access to entire U.S. Census, as well as many Texas records - could do some great research for someone! I asked a friend on the Web who is knowledgeable, and he said try a letter to the town supervisor or something of the sort, and that they might be getting around it by saying you can go there in person to view the records, which indeed is the claim they are making. And that you can hire someone to get them for you. I really think that these offices are obliged by FOIA or whatever law covers court records to copy the files for you. Does anyone specifically know? I really wish someone would please tell me what law applies. And if anyone knows of an effective place to complain, I'll definately do it! Yours, Dora I just had an experience with getting probate in Mifflin County; I wonder what experiences other people have had. I called the court clerk's office for Mifflin County to ask if they had my great aunt's and her daughter's probate, and they said they had just the daughter's. Well, great, I said, how do I get a copy of the file? Well, the woman was rude, and she said they don't copy probate files for people "just for genealogy", "you'll have to contact the Historical Society". I pointed out to her that those are public records, and the law requires her to make copies. "The law requires us to make them available, but they are all the way down in the basement, and you have to have someone come in and make copies yourself". Now, I already have to pay someone $50 to get my great grandfather's probate in Philadelphia, where they follow procedures, just don't often find probate records that are there, and I really don't ahve this kind of cash to throw around; plus I believe they really have to have a procedure to make copies for people. Well, later in the afternoon I got her boss, who told me that actually they have an arrangement with the Mifflin County Historical Society to come in and copy those documents for people - for a fee. If that is indeed what other people have found to be the case, I have the phone number for Mifflin Co Historical Society at the other end of the house in my knapsack because I also was trying to call them today. They are only open Tuesday and Wednesday and half the day on Saturday I can't remember which half the day. Yours, Dora That phone number for Mifflin Co Historical Society is 717-242-1449. Phone number for recorder in clerk's office is 717-242-1449. If anyone wants to see what luck they have. I searched the PAMIFFLI-L archives for anything to do with will, wills, or probate, this came up: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 19:49:40 -0400 From: Alice Kern <akern@nauticom.net> To: PAMIFFLI-L@rootsweb.com Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990428194940.006a4b78@nauticom.net> Subject: [PAMIFFLI-L] Mifflin Register of Wills Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello listmembers, I recently wrote to the Courthouse, Register of Wills and asked if a certain will existed. I received a form letter back that they did not answer genealogical requests. I have never had a courthouse refuse to send me information. Every other courthouse in Pennsylvania that I have had contact with has been very co-operative. Is this something new? In the time it took them to send me the form letter, they could have looked up the will in the will book! Thanks! Alice Kern Searching for a will for Christian or Hannah KIPE/KIBE How long should I expect it to take for a research request to the Mifflin Co. Historical Society? I sent $$ May 10 for some research at the courthouse - specific deeds as well as a search in the indexes for a surname. The check was cashed soon after, but I have not heard a word as to whether they are really backed up, or if anyone is working on the request. Even a word that they haven't forgotten would be appreciated. Seems like I read that 8-10 weeks is not uncommon. If so, hopefully I will hear tomorrow - 10 weeks. I'm trying to be patient. Thanks. Ann Brickner annbrick@turbosurf.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I too just got back from vacationing in central PA, doing my research in Mifflin County. It's a nice small town kind of place, but, yes the ladies at the courthouse are swamped with work. They help you with what you need, but can't spend the day with you and your research. The people over at the Mifflin County Historical Society are great too, and will gladly help you with your research at the courthouse. Just be patient, and you'll get your info!! Honest! Lisa I'm afraid what we've been getting is a flat "no". Yours, Dora --- Lisa Kirkhoff <lmae@voicenet.com> wrote: > I too just got back from vacationing in central > PA, doing my research in > Mifflin County. It's a nice small town kind of > place, but, yes the > ladies at the courthouse are swamped with work. > They help you with what > you need, but can't spend the day with you and > your research. The > people over at the Mifflin County Historical > Society are great too, and > will gladly help you with your research at the > courthouse. Just be > patient, and you'll get your info!! Honest! > Lisa > > > ==== PAMIFFLI Mailing List ==== > > This entire dialogue with a Wayne Seibert: References <20000729022436.4449.qmail@web3204.mail.yahoo.com> Resent-Date Fri, 28 Jul 2000 20:14:01 -0700 Resent-From PAMIFFLI-L@rootsweb.com Resent-Message-ID <JlHSq.A._1G.5vkg5@lists5.rootsweb.com> Resent-Sender PAMIFFLI-L-request@rootsweb.com - On their web page the Mifflin Co. Court clearly states that the Historical Society be contacted for certain research. I, too had been a little upset by this but I was assured that I could search the records myself. I visited there earlier this month and found the clerks to be very busy but took time to assist me. In NY I wasn't even allowed to look at the books and had to show ID to get a copy of a death certificate. In Montcalm Co., MI I was a day late for the only day that genealogical research was allowed. Check the fees for research by the State of Pennsylvania (New Castle) if you don't know the exact date or place of an event. It's worse for the Social Security Administration if you don't have the SSN. These people in Lewistown have to deal with the administration of more current matters. Sometimes we find what we are looking for quickly, but usually we read and search for many hours to find nothing. I would hate to think that somebody's financial affairs after a recent death, or the court itself was delayed because I wanted to know if my gr-great grandaddy had a will. Certainly these are public records but a legal need must exist for them to be required to expend time on a search. Our hobby just doesn't qualify. > Guess we have a different understanding of the > law; I believe it says that they have to copy > those court records for you. > > I didn't say anything about anyone doing research > for me; would you kindly explain where you got > it? But please, just don't explain it to me. I > haven't the patience. > > Dora He of course explained anyway: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Public Records Administration is a very specialized field and one must not only know the Federal laws and court decisions, but many local laws as well. I certainly won't try your patience explaining so complex an issue but to not be redundant, how do you copy an old record without first locating it? By researching the files, right? I have been working with these laws professionally for 21 years and have been teaching on the college level for 15. If I were to gain employment as a records clerk I would still have to go to a specialized school to be qualified. We have all run into unreasonable public officials in the course of our hobby but be assured that a court of record, like Mifflin County, is operating within the law. Also, we should all realize that the Freedom of Information Act covers only certain Federally kept records, not state. States often comply eventually but some states like New York and California have very strict privacy laws so that even though a living person may be on a census, the state held records could still be sealed. May this be the last words on this topic so we can return to finding dead ancestors and living cousins. By the way, I have four direct Smiths from Mifflin, Hintingdon and and Bedford Counties that I'm looking for. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut_48@yahoo.com> To: "Wayne Seibert" <wseibert@erinet.com>; <PAMIFFLI-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 7:24 PM Subject: Re: [PAMIFFLI-L] census research for a Mifflin County probate file I can't believe people wrote the things they did in response to my postings and my effort to find anyone to trade research with. I can plainly see why there was not a single response to the earlier posting about the same problem. Not one of you care. It's quite a switch from my previous experience with this list, which was that people were extremely helpful. It's always possible that the more helpful members of the list are on vacation, I guess. Those people are nice - and I can't imagine one of them writing such stuff - or indeed, not sharing my concerns and my feelings. If, instead of merely having snooty comments to make, anyone wants some census or Texas work done and can get to the Mifflin County courthouse to copy that probate for me, I"m still looking for such an arrangement. Yours, Dora Smith __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/