After reading the initial complaints about access to Delaware County records, I went looking for information on Pennsylvania's laws regarding access to public records (a remark about a reporter who didn't see a problem caught my attention since I'm in the newspaper business -- that reporter needs to learn some things about open government). I discovered the problem is more than a hard-headed functionaries who don't have any notion of what it means to be PUBLIC servants. Pennsylvania's law regarding access to public records (the Right to Know Law mentioned in somebody else's message) is extremely weak compared to such laws in most states. For example, it places the burden for proving a record should be open to members of the public on the person who requests access. A good open records law assumes all government records are open unless the custodian can point to a specific law that says that particular type of record is closed. Furthermore there is no enforcement mechanism other than filing a lawsuit, and if a citizen goes to court and wins, he or she cannot force the state to reimburse legal costs. Incidently nonresidents have been excluded from even using the law by a court decision; denying those of us who live in other states access does not violate the law according to that decision. By all means, go ahead with protests, letter-writing campaigns etc. It might convince some elected official in Delaware County to change things there. But also consider getting involved with some broader efforts to change the state law. It's not just genealogical research that is affected by public employees who think their offices and files are private reserves from which the public can be excluded. The Pennsylvania Newspaper Association is involved in just such an effort. Check out its arguments for a replacement law at http://www.pnpa.com/legislative/r2kcrisis.htm or the current law at http://www.pnpa.com/legal/open.htm There is also a series of articles that were apparently published in April 1999 about how even reporters were denied access to a good number of records that should be open by even a narrow interpretation of the current law. The series is not the easiest thing to access (I've only looked at a couple of the text files), but you can start at http://www.pnpa.com/projectopen/ -- Karl Seitz

I say if we are all going to complain lets do it "en masse" so to say. Complaining individually wont really do a lot of good as each individuals letter will probably end up in the waste bin. If someone was willing to coordinate the petition I would be more than happy to write a letter to the official and send it to them to be passed on in a bunch. I think if we all do this together and the right elected officials are targeted it will do so much more than individual complaints. I also think we should state our case firmly that we are not willing to back down from this issue until we recieve assurances that things will improve and the records of our ancestors are administered by people who actually care about them. Ian.

Helen: My wife mentioned in passing that you were looking for suggestions on securing access to public information at the Delaware County courthouse. I did some on-line research on this issue, but you should verify this with an attorney familiar with Pennsylvania law before getting too involved: Try appealing to local elected officials with responsibility over the career civil servants who obviously don't want to be bothered by citizen requests for information. According to the Delaware County website, the following individuals (all elected officials) appear to have responsibility for various records at the courthouse and should be responsive to citizen (i.e., voter) concerns regarding courthouse administration and delivery of public service: Michael F.X. Gillen, Esq. -- Register of Wills and Clerk of Orphan Court. Up for re-election in Nov. 2001. Tim Murtaugh -- County Councilman -- areas of responsibility on the County Council include oversight of Executive Director, County Clerk, and Recorder of Deeds. He also oversees Library Services. Up for re-election in Nov. 2001. Kathrynann W. Durham -- County Councilman -- areas of concentration on the County Council include Public Property and Records. Up for re-election in Nov. 2003. Among the arguments that might be raised are the following: Section 66.2 of the Pennsylvania Statutes (otherwise known as the Pennsylvania "Right-to-Know Law") provides that "Every public record of an agency shall, at reasonable times, be open for examination and inspection by any citizen of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania." As a political subdivision of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, the County and the various departments within the County, are covered by this law. Moreover, disclosure of the records sought by genealogists, such as those relating to the Revolutionary War, would not "operate to the prejudice or impairment of a person's reputation or personal security." The refusal of certain county employees to allow inspection of these records has no foundation in law, but is indicative of their indifference to public service. If the County is unable or unwilling to properly maintain its historically valuable local public records, it should immediately transfer possession of those records to the state's Historical and Museum Commission. Title 46, Chapter 15 of the Pennsylvania Code provides for removal of local public records of historical value in such situations: "Sec. 15.2 Transfer to Historical and Museum Commission. (a) Public records are public property and should remain in public custody. If a county or municipal government cannot adequately care for its own historical records, they shold be transferred to the custody of the Commission. (b) The Commission believes that it is in the best interest of the public that local public records of historical value be maintained in a county or municipal archives operated by the political subdivision. If individual county/municipal governments are unable to maintain a local public archives, arrangements should be made to transfer historical records to the Commission. (c) Records transferred to the Commission will be maintained at the State Archives or at depositories designated and approved by the Commission. Approved repositories will be required to sign memorandums of agreement with the Commission, which will focus on the institutions' duties and responsibilities with respect to the care and administration of public records deposited by the Commission." If the County courthouse is, in fact, already considered such a repository, then it should abide by the standards imposed by the Historical and Museum Commission: "Sec. 15.3. Standards for repositories. A repository maintaining historically valuable local public records should be able to demonstrate that it has the legal authority to hold the records and meet the following minimum standards: (1) Archival records are to properly protected against fire, theft or other loss. (2) Archival records are to be arranged and described according to commonly accepted archival standards. (3) Archival records are to be made available at reasonable times." Maintenance of historically valuable public records at the home of a former county employee most assuredly would NOT meet these high standards for archival preservation. Moreover, this situation raises serious questions as to whether public property (i.e., the historically valuable public records) has been diverted to the private inurement of a former government employee. Another tact might be to contact the Delaware County Bar Association, Front & Lemon Streets Media, PA 19063; Tel:610-566-6625; Fax: 610-566-7952. Local bar associations maintain close liaison with the judges and court administrators, and should be concerned about court employees refusing to make public information available. Finally, if any of the local law schools have a clinical law program, they might be interested in taking on a project on access to government information. A list of links to Pennsylvania law schools as it: http://lawschools.findlaw.com/schools/pennsylvania.html Good luck! Jeff : -----Original Message----- : From: HMWEBBER@aol.com [mailto:HMWEBBER@aol.com] : Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 9:00 AM : To: PACHESTE-L@rootsweb.com : Subject: [PACHESTE] Re: Records at the Court House in Dela. Co., PA! : : : Thank you Mary Jane--I'm running out of words--I just don't know : what to say--how about if we start sending all of the remarks to : the Elected Officials & the newspapers? : : Happy hunting, Helen (DCGS) : : In a message dated 8/27/0 12:18:21 AM, REDSKI9136@aol.com writes: : : << In a message dated 8/26/00 11:36:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, : harv@uswest.net : writes: : : << Does anyone know if there is a State Office that we can : get to help : > us in regard to these RECORDS or do we get up a PETITION?????? : > : > Happy hunting, Helen (DCGS) >> : : Hi Helen, : : Were is the petition? I am ready to sign it. I was born and : raised in Chester, Del. Co. and I am surprised to here they are : still acting : like this in Media. I have seen very much of this same attitude : over 10 years : ago, when genealogist were on foot. : I had less hassle at Phila.Archives and couthouse, then I had in : my own home : town. : Does anybody know if Judge Kelly is still in Media?You get that petition : going, I will sign it. : : Mary Jane : Bright Star : : >> : : : ==== PACHESTE Mailing List ==== : Visit the PA GenWeb Archives at : http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/pa/pafiles.htm : : : : :

Seeking death dates for: Enoch Gray (1796- ) son of Anthony Gray and Mary Beale. Mar Mary Conard 13 Mar 1823 at New Garden MM. Enoch Sewell Gray (1803- ) son of Enoch Gray, Jr. and Sarah Swayne. May be in PA willbook 1682-1834, but it isn't in our library. Thanks, Sophie Fisher

The Fall 2000 issue of Chester County Town & Country Living magazine has an article on the Newlin Grist Mill in Glen Mills. If you want a copy contact the magazine @ 40 S. Main Street Yardley PA 19067 (215) 321-6040. Subscription is $13.50/year 4 issues. It has beautiful pictures and some interesting historical stuff in a superficial way. Also lots of articles about artsy-crafty Chester Co people. Every month they run an article about a different Chester Co. village or town, and a spread showing interiors and exteriors of another interesting old house. Anne Wiegle -----Original Message----- From: Nadine Holder [SMTP:nadin@C2i2.com] Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 11:50 AM To: PACHESTE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PACHESTE] Newlin of Chester County, PA Please visit our Newlin Web Page at http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Farm/4038 (You probably can't get near it on the weekend as Yahoo gets very, very busy and always says "page not found" not "we're too busy".) Am very curious as to your source that Rachel was a daughter - have not run across that. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Perdue" <john@macromatic.com> To: <PACHESTE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 7:50 PM Subject: [PACHESTE] Newlin of Chester County, PA > There have been a number of postings for the Newlin family. I have the > following Newlin's in my database and was wondering if anything looked > familiar to anybody: > > Nicholas Newlin b 1620 in Queens County, Ireland d 31 May 1699 probably in > Chester County, PA > Elizabeth Paggott b uk in Queens County, Ireland d 1 February 1716/17 > probably in Chester County, PA > > Children > > Nathaniel > Elizabeth > Rachel > John > > The only child I know anything about is Rachel: b between 1665-1685 in > Chester County, PA, d 1742 Chester County, PA, m Ephriam Jackson 1695 in > Chester County, PA. > > Thanks, John > > > ==== PACHESTE Mailing List ==== > Stop by our associated website for Chester County Genealogy at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~pacheste/chester.htm > > > > > ______________________________

You can get a Death Certificate from the State of PA not the county they died in or were buried in. Try: <A HREF="http://vitalrec.com/pa.html">PA Vital Records Info</A> http://vitalrec.com/pa.html I know some state are putting a time limit on Death Certificates but I don't think PA has. You can also get a copy of his Social Security Record at: <A HREF="http://ssdi.genealogy.rootsweb.com/">SSDI Rootsweb*</A> http://ssdi.genealogy.rootsweb.com/ He may have died in Delaware Co., PA--this is what I found at SSDI. Name Birth Death Last Residence Last Benefit SSN Issued CHARLES GEAR 27 Sep 1897 Jul 1966 19082 (Upper Darby, Delaware, PA) 171-10-2427 PA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ In a message dated 8/27/0 4:48:43 AM, SirIanOfCa@aol.com writes: << It seems I have to start my Chester County research with a death certificate that is for Charles R. Gear died July 21 1966.Can anyone tell me the appropriate place to write to? Will they let me have a copy seeings as its less than 40 years ago? It seems I am a direct descendant of Charles. Thanks Ian.>>

<A HREF="http://www.rollanet.org/~bdoerr/mo.htm">Click here: MISSOURI FAMILY HISTORY</A> In keeping with the project to storm Dela Cty records department, you might find the announcement in the first part of the MO site helpful- - - - - -it deals with opening records to the public. You may add my name to those who believe the records in Dela Cty's keeping belong to us - - - they ARE OUR records! Dori , in California Beannachtai

Thank you Mary Jane--I'm running out of words--I just don't know what to say--how about if we start sending all of the remarks to the Elected Officials & the newspapers? Happy hunting, Helen (DCGS) In a message dated 8/27/0 12:18:21 AM, REDSKI9136@aol.com writes: << In a message dated 8/26/00 11:36:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, harv@uswest.net writes: << Does anyone know if there is a State Office that we can get to help > us in regard to these RECORDS or do we get up a PETITION?????? > > Happy hunting, Helen (DCGS) >> Hi Helen, Were is the petition? I am ready to sign it. I was born and raised in Chester, Del. Co. and I am surprised to here they are still acting like this in Media. I have seen very much of this same attitude over 10 years ago, when genealogist were on foot. I had less hassle at Phila.Archives and couthouse, then I had in my own home town. Does anybody know if Judge Kelly is still in Media?You get that petition going, I will sign it. Mary Jane Bright Star >>

Thank you very much Gail. Anything you can do is fine with me! I appreciate all the responses & offers of help I have gotten. I also thank Karen Greim Mullian <booboopies@aol.com> for the PA Elected Officials info. :) I just can't thank you all enough! I never expected such an overwhelming response but I guess it has been along time coming. Happy hunting, Helen (DCGS) Helen-- I, too, would be glad to help in any way I can to make these records available to all of us. I was raised in Trainer, Delaware Co., and now live in Claymont, DE. Due to my MS and lack of transportation, I can't always get around as I'd like, but I could write a letter! I haven't been able to visit the Court House yet to look for information. But it is on my list of things to do. I'd be more than happy to add my voice and support wherever I can! Gail Faries

Since these gentleman are elected officials, I don't see why not (There are others, check out the Delaware County Home Page for the others): Ron Raymand (a really nice guy and very interest in history, by the way) Mailing Address: 1337 Chester Pike, Sharon Hill, PA, 19079 Curt Weldon (also a really nice guy) curtpa7@hr.house.gov Honorable Curt Weldon 2452 Rayburn House Office Building Washington, D.C. 20515 30 S. Valley Road Paoli, Pennsylvania 19301 Honorable Curt Weldon 1554 Garrett Road Upper Darby, Pennsylvania 19082 If I may offer just a suggestion or two to those considering putting your experiences on paper. Use commonsense when writing your letters. While reasonable access to records is of vital importance to all genealogists, this isn't by any stretch of the imagination the most important thing to the State Assembly or Congress. Be tactful and offer practical solutions for ways to make change possible, rather than just complaining. You get more bees with honey than vinegar; and if the people and their elected representatives can work together to present well-considered alternatives and options to the present situation, we'd have a better chance at opening up those archives. Karen Greim Mullian booboopies@aol.com In a message dated Sat, 26 Aug 2000 11:55:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, harv <harv@uswest.net> writes: << How about if you post the names and addresses (email) of the state representative(s) who represent that area on this mail list? I would be happy to drop him/her a line and voice my displeasure. My husband experienced difficulty with this same group when trying to get some info on his family (by mail). I think if all of us wrote a letter to the representative and let them know that the offices are stonewalling citizens who pay their salaries that maybe something might be changed. I'd be happy to be one of the letter writers. >> ==== PADELAWA Mailing List ====

--part1_78.983aa89.26da633a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alice, Thank you very much for your response to my problem at the Delaware Co. Court House. Sometimes I wonder did I so or do something wrong but with all the stories my students have told me over the years--I know it's not me--I know it is them! About the Lancaster County Mennonite Historical Society, how & where could I contact them? happy hunting, Helen (DCGS) In a message dated 8/27/0 12:13:18 AM, louiseb@lancnews.infi.net writes: << Helen, you weren't the only one treated badly by the clerks at the Delaware County Courthouse in Media. I was there a few years ago and they definitely made me feel like a crook because I wanted information from the Register of Wills office. It was clearly a public record. I was looking for a will or intestate records for Thomas TUCKER, ca 1800. I definitely got the impression that the records were theirs and I couldn't have them. I would have thought by now, with all the genealogical research going on, that they would have loosened up. I have never had the trouble researching anywhere in this tri~state area than I have had in the Delaware Co. Courthouse and I have been researching for the past 30 years. Here in Lancaster County, PA, you can go into the Archives at the Courthouse and where they keep the Deeds, you can find Veterans records. I found recorded in a very tattered book my father's name as well as my uncles, who all served in World War II. My father's war records were destroyed by fire at the national level and this was the only way, besides newspaper accounts of him and his brothers being in the war together, that he had to prove he served during the Second World War. He needed proof of his service to obtain his veterans benefits. I don't know what can be done to make the records more accessible in Delaware County. Perhaps the PA State Archives in Harrisburg can help you with this problem. You said in your email that you conduct Genealogy Workshops. The reason that I mention this, the Lancaster County Mennonite Historical Society is always looking for speakers and instructors for their Genealogy Conference they have in the Spring. If you would be interested contact the society for more information. Alice Beard >> --part1_78.983aa89.26da633a_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <louiseb@lancnews.infi.net> Received: from rly-yd03.mx.aol.com (rly-yd03.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.3]) by air-yd04.mail.aol.com (v75_b3.11) with ESMTP; Sun, 27 Aug 2000 00:13:18 -0400 Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by rly-yd03.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Sun, 27 Aug 2000 00:12:55 -0400 Received: from lancnews.infi.net (A020-0101.LANR.splitrock.net [64.196.128.101]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA01924 for <HMWEBBER@aol.com>; Sun, 27 Aug 2000 00:12:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <39A89558.178EF000@lancnews.infi.net> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 00

These are Public Records--I'm not an attorney so I don't know the answer to your question! But if all the other counties in PA let you see & make copies of their county records--WHY can't Delaware Co., PA? :) Happy hunting, Helen (DCGS) In a message dated 8/26/0 11:59:29 PM, harv@uswest.net writes: << P.S. if you would also cite the statutes and laws that cover our rights to see such records, that would be helpful in writing a letter. >>

I will try to have all the addresses posted by tomorrow for e-mail & snail-mail! Thank you! Happy hunting, Helen How about if you post the names and addresses (email) of the state representative(s) who represent that area on this mail list? I would be happy to drop him/her a line and voice my displeasure. My husband experienced difficulty with this same group when trying to get some info on his family (by mail). I think if all of us wrote a letter to the representative and let them know that the offices are stonewalling citizens who pay their salaries that maybe something might be changed. I'd be happy to be one of the letter writers. ==== PADELAWA Mailing List ====

--part1_30.976e086.26da5997_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_30.976e086.26da5997_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <DENEWCAS-L-request@rootsweb.com> Received: from rly-zc04.mx.aol.com (rly-zc04.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.4]) by air-zc02.mail.aol.com (v75_b3.11) with ESMTP; Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:44:05 -0400 Received: from lists6.rootsweb.com (lists6.rootsweb.com [63.92.80.125]) by rly-zc04.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:43:39 -0400 Received: (from slist@localhost) by lists6.rootsweb.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id e7R3gwu12763; Sat, 26 Aug 2000 20:42:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 20:42:58 -0700 X-Original-Sender: woodside1728@uswest.net Sat Aug 26 20:42:57 2000 Delivered-To: fixup-DENEWCAS-L@rootsweb.com@fixme Message-ID: <008001c00fd9$09efbc40$20b6a1d8@uswest.net> From: "Kathleen Woodside Freiburg" <woodside1728@uswest.net> Old-To: "New Castle Co DE List" <DENEWCAS-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 20:44:01 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [DENEWCAS] Appellate Court Records?! Resent-Message-ID: <8Qnm8C.A.PHD.C5Iq5@lists6.rootsweb.com> To: DENEWCAS-L@rootsweb.com Resent-From: DENEWCAS-L@rootsweb.com X-Mailing-List: <DENEWCAS-L@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/968 X-Loop: DENEWCAS-L@rootsweb.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: DENEWCAS-L-request@rootsweb.com Hi, Listers . . . I subscribe to a free daily email service called EVERTON'S FAMILY HISTORY NEWSLINE Sponsored by: The Genealogical Helper. To subscribe: http://www.everton.com/subscribe I get short but informative article on a different topic of genealogical research each day. Thursday's really took me by surprise! I'd never heard of this and can't say I've ever heard anyone discuss it either so I wanted to share it. Have you ever thought of searching Appellate Court Records? Nor had I! Seems they are printed and arranged chronologically by court, with alphabetic indexes to the parties involved. These records are typically found in legal libraries of law schools, large legal firms, and state governments. Has anyone in your family ever contested a will? Well, this is where that wealth of information will be found. I understand a lot more of these are going online, too. Here are some links to explore further; the last a link to Everton for reprints. United States Appellate Court Records http://www.everton.com/oe3-14/appeal.htm Texas Appellate Court Case Search http://www.info.courts.state.tx.us/appindex/appindex.exe California Appellate Courts Case Information System http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/ Recent articles are available online at http://www.everton.com/FHN/ Email me privately if you would like a forwarded a copy of the entire article. Kathy W-F mailto:woodside1728@uswest.net --part1_30.976e086.26da5997_boundary--

--part1_ca.974e48e.26da563f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh, Helen, if only I weren't trying to save a historic house, I'd work with you on this in a heart beat! Have you contacted the Heritage Commission? How about a few words placed in the appropriate ear, i.e., State Rep. Ron Raymond or U.S. Congressman Curt Weldon? Would it help, do you suppose, if anyone who experiences any difficulties obtaining records from the Delaware County Court House in Media were to document such incidences and share them with our State Rep and US Rep? I believe the federal wait time is 72 years, so any records at the Court House prior to 1918 are most definitely public records. It is county tax money that pays for their maintenance, the people maintaining them are employed at tax-payer expense. Seems to me the tax-payers or reasonable facsimiles should have free access to this material. Karen Greim Mullian booboopies@aol.com In a message dated Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:33:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, HMWEBBER@aol.com writes: << Hi, You cannot believe how bad/hard it is to get records at The Delaware County Court House--please read the following: --part1_ca.974e48e.26da563f_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <Booboopies@aol.com> Received: from web33.aolmail.aol.com (web33.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.9]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.11) with ESMTP; Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:41:06 -0400 Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:41:04 EDT From: Booboopies@aol.com Subject:Re: Records at the Court House in Dela. Co., PA! To: <HMWEBBER@aol.com>, <PADELAWA-L@rootsweb.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown Message-ID: <12.18d46b7.26d9e7d2@aol.com> Oh, Helen, if only I weren't trying to save a historic house, I'd work with you on this in a heart beat! Have you contacted the Heritage Commission? How about a few words placed in the appropriate ear, i.e., State Rep. Ron Raymond or U.S. Congressman Curt Weldon? Would it help, do you suppose, if anyone who experiences any difficulties obtaining records from the Delaware County Court House in Media were to document such incidences and share them with our State Rep and US Rep? I believe the federal wait time is 72 years, so any records at the Court House prior to 1918 are most definitely public records. It is county tax money that pays for their maintenance, the people maintaining them are employed at tax-payer expense. Seems to me the tax-payers or reasonable facsimiles should have free access to this material. Karen Greim Mullian booboopies@aol.com In a message dated Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:33:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, HMWEBBER@aol.com writes: << Hi, You cannot believe how bad/hard it is to get records at The Delaware County Court House--please read the following: I have been very upset, about the Delaware Co. Court House Records not being available to & for the public the way they should be! Over the years while instructing my many Genealogy Workshops & at the lecture for the GENEALOGY 1995 Spring Conference, at Neumann College, I was asked to start a petition & go after the county in regard to these records. Just recently, I spoke to a reporter from the Phila. Inquire, hoping he would do a story, he told me, "We have no problems getting records." He did not see anything wrong with the way the records are kept. My response, "I guess not, your a newspaper!" I also, spoke to an attorney & I was told, "You don't want to get anyone mad at you!! :( Has anyone ever tried to get Citizenship Records? You have to go to the Passport Office, talk to the woman there & she in turn contacts a woman at her home! This info is in her basement--the clerk will not give you the woman's name. The woman use to work for the court house & is now retired. What is going to happen to these record when she dies?? Are these records going to disappear like The Adoption Docket & The Murder Index Book & other records? I have been told that they do not want the public to know where these Citizenship Records/Letters of Intent/Immigration Records are--now YOU know--I just TOLD YOU!! :) : About a year ago, I was doing a lot of research on VA Record at the Veterans Affairs Office, in the court house, they were very kind & helpful! The ladies' names are Fran & Angie, one day, one of them said to me, "Helen have you checked the VA records at The Recorder of Deeds Office." I looked at her--thinking has this lady gone a little bananas on me. I was born & raised in Delaware County & have doing research here for about 25 years--I NEVER heard of any veterans' records being in The Recorder of Deeds Office. So I finished what I was doing & went to the deed's office & very nicely asked a clerk if I could see some veterans' records from the Revolutionary War & the Civil War. She told me I could not because they were private records & the public were not allowed to use them. I told her they are not! And rattled on about the Privacy Act (still being very nice) & asked to see her supervisor, & she went to get her! This woman came out of her office, no cubical, screaming at me, telling me WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE! I said very calmly, "I'm doing research on veterans to replace their tombstones at St. Martin's Cem., in Marcus Hook. I was again told that they were private records & I replied, they are not private! This woman is still being very nasty & loud! If I can send to The National Archives, get these records for $10.00 & you have them here, I should get them for free? I'm doing a community project for free--I'm not being paid for this work!! She said, "You mean to tell me that if you want to see my husband's Korean War Record, you think you should be allowed to see it"--I told her, "I do not want to see his record." I know I cannot see veterans' record from World War I up to present time unless I'm a direct descendant of theirs! I was still being very sweet to her & asked for her card--then I asked do I need a court order & walked out. I called Stephen BARRAR & complained-- which did no good. He had a Mr. JUDGE call me & he was of no help either!! The woman's name is Grace RUANE, Chief Deputy, Recorder of Deeds. Does anyone know if there is a State Office that we can get to help us in regard to these RECORDS or do we get up a PETITION?????? Happy hunting, Helen (DCGS) P.S. There are even more stories but I think I got my point across! :) In a message dated 8/26/0 10:03:56 AM, glo777@home.com writes: << Are the Fair Acres holdings accessible? In a word - no. I'm told by the archivist that he does not have any work space available for people who want to come in and do research. The only way I get anywhere with him is to call him and ask for him to check his records. Believe me, this is an issue I've already been over with him. I feel very strongly that these records should be available to the public just as with any other public records. Regards, Gloria >> ==== PADELAWA Mailing List ==== Please remember our pledge drive to support RootsWeb! http://199.72.15.191/Sites/Gen/Chet2/scripts/RWGoal.asp >> --part1_ca.974e48e.26da563f_boundary--

Can someone draft a letter--any attorneys out there? We will all sign it separately & e-mail it separately to the Governor's Office, Curt Weldon's Office, Stephen Barrar's Office, The Daily Times & The Phila. Inquirer. Then we will all print out a copy & snail-mail them all one. How does this sound? I have been waiting for this for a long time! :) Thank you! Happy hunting, Helen (DCGS) Helen M. (Webber) Imburgia 396 Derry Dr. Aston, PA 19014 (610) 358-1102 Founder of The Delaware County Genealogical Society of PA. In a message dated 8/26/0 11:25:28 PM, ajgreen@mis.net writes: << This is unbelievable of people in public jobs, being paid with tax dollars. Could we get a letter writing campaign started....to the Governor's office on down? The people in the county and the state should be outraged that their records are being kept in such a haphazard way. Please let me know if there is anything I can do to help. June >>

Thank you Roslyn--that is a great idea! In a message dated 8/26/0 10:56:39 PM, nonny984@home.ffni.com writes: << Can you write your congressman and make sure you send a copy of the letter to the newspapers? And make sure they both know that copies have been sent out to the otherss? Sometiems that works better than anything? If your congressman or rep thinks the public is going to be in on something and it is an election year, it might help. Roslyn >>

Good morning Ray, Thank you so much for your kind words of interest & listening to me! :) Most of my families come from the Eastern Shore of MD, DE, Berks Co., Bucks Co., Montgomery Co., Chester Co., Northampton Co., PA, the Bronx & a few others. Wayne Co. is just great. I have never had any difficulty in any of these please doing genealogy research. My families did not show up in Delaware Co. until 1878 & I wish they would have kept going. I told this Mr. JUDGE, "Do you know that Delaware County is still listening to the radio & the rest of the world, even the 3rd world counties, are watching TV or playing on their computers, when it comes to your record keeping," & hung up the phone! :) Happy hunting, Helen (DCGS)

HMWEBBER@aol.com wrote: > These are Public Records--I'm not an attorney so I don't know > the answer to your question! > > But if all the other counties in PA let you see & make copies of > their county records--WHY can't Delaware Co., PA? :) > > Happy hunting, Helen (DCGS) > > Beaver County has done the same thing. I looked for probate and estate admin > records there earlier this summer and was told at every office in the Court > House and everywhere else "We don't have 'em." At one office they had an > index, but didn't know who had the full records. It sounded as though they all > had a script memorized as they all used exactly the same words. Go figure. > Florence >

It seems I have to start my Chester County research with a death certificate that is for Charles R. Gear died July 21 1966.Can anyone tell me the appropriate place to write to? Will they let me have a copy seeings as its less than 40 years ago? It seems I am a direct descendant of Charles. Thanks Ian.