Hi Marlene, thanks for the response. I had some early pioneers settle into Centre county. There cit/nat papers were telling of him from Holland. I was just getting a feel how settled the area was by the Dutch. So far, not much! Thanks for replying, Mark in Kansas -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 8:48 PM Subject: Re: [PACENTRE] what counties considered to be Pennsylvania Dutch Hi Mark, Pennsylvania Dutch refers more to a people. I live in Upper Bucks County in Pa, and this area along with Berks, Northampton, Leigh counties have a large settlement of Pa Duth....they were german speaking people who settled this area. Marlene Let music fill your spirit! Start out by supporting Chamber Arts Guild Chorus www.chamberartsguild.org And for the child in you also Check out Mike Ford's latest musical adventure, "Dog Train". www.boyntonfordmusic.com/products.htm "We must be the change we wish to see in the world" Mahatma Gandhi ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:58 PM Subject: [PACENTRE] what counties considered to be Pennsylvania Dutch > Hi all, > I read an email earlier talking about a couple of counties in Pennsylvania > as Pennsylvania Dutch. I am familiar with the term but don't know exactly > what counties they would have been. > Can anybody tell me? > > Thank you, > Mark in Kansas > ________________________________________________________________________ > Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security > tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, > free AOL Mail and more. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

Ah, the Pennsylvania Dutch were not Hollanders or Low Dutch. The Pennsylvania Dutch were Deutsch, that is, German-speakers, chiefly from the Pfalz/Palatinate, the Alsace region of what is now France, and the German-speaking Cantons of Switzerland, such as Bern and Zürich. Those persons who were Dutch from what is now called the Netherlands are a different group of people, although linguistically related, not being considered part of the Pennsylvania Dutch people. Justin At 10:33 PM 1/7/2007, you wrote: >Hi Marlene, >thanks for the response. I had some early >pioneers settle into Centre county. There >cit/nat papers were telling of him from Holland. >I was just getting a feel how settled the area >was by the Dutch. So far, not much! > >Thanks for replying, >Mark in Kansas > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Sent: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 8:48 PM >Subject: Re: [PACENTRE] what counties considered to be Pennsylvania Dutch > > >Hi Mark, > >Pennsylvania Dutch refers more to a people. I live in Upper Bucks County in >Pa, and this area along with Berks, Northampton, Leigh counties have a large >settlement of Pa Duth....they were german speaking people who settled this >area. > >Marlene > >Let music fill your spirit! >Start out by supporting Chamber Arts Guild Chorus >www.chamberartsguild.org > >And for the child in you also > >Check out Mike Ford's latest musical adventure, "Dog Train". >www.boyntonfordmusic.com/products.htm > >"We must be the change we wish to see in the world" Mahatma Gandhi > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:58 PM >Subject: [PACENTRE] what counties considered to be Pennsylvania Dutch > > > > Hi all, > > I read an email earlier talking about a couple of counties in Pennsylvania > > as Pennsylvania Dutch. I am familiar with the term but don't know exactly > > what counties they would have been. > > Can anybody tell me? > > > > Thank you, > > Mark in Kansas > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security > > tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, > > free AOL Mail and more. > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >email to [email protected] >with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of >the message >________________________________________________________________________ >Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set >of free safety and security tools, free access >to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >email to [email protected] with the >word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the >subject and the body of the message

Centre County's settlement can be understood, briefly, in this way: 1700s - initial influx of Scots-Irish (Presbyterian) settlers in the valleys 1790s-1840s - "Pennsylvania Dutch" (Lutheran and Reformed, Evangelical/United Brethren, a few Mennonite) move into the valleys from the southeastern counties; Scots-Irish push westward and up into mountainous areas (Snow Shoe, Philipsburg, etc. areas) c.1800-c.1865 - Many African Americans pass through on the "Underground Railroad;" a considerable portion stay so that there is a sizable African American population in Bellefonte by the time of the Civil War 1830s-1860s - Irish (Roman Catholic) come into the area to work on the canals, and stay; waves of Irish immigrants follow; newer German immigrants come into parts of the county, including a small colony called "Germania" in Burnside Twp. and a number of farming families in Halfmoon Valley; other nationalities arrive in small numbers (English, etc.) 1880-1920 - Tremendous influx of Italian and Slavic settlers of various nationalities, settling chiefly around Bellefonte and in the Snow Shoe/Philipsburg regions, and changing the ethnic composition of those areas drastically Post WWII - Penn State attracts residents from all over the world, particularly to the State College area; moderate numbers of Asians, Middle Eastern residents, etc., increasing as time continues 1990s - Russian Baptist immigrants begin settlement in Pleasant Gap and State College areas At 10:33 PM 1/7/2007, [email protected] wrote: >Hi Marlene, >thanks for the response. I had some early pioneers settle into >Centre county. There cit/nat papers were telling of him from >Holland. I was just getting a feel how settled the area was by the >Dutch. So far, not much! > >Thanks for replying, >Mark in Kansas > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Sent: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 8:48 PM >Subject: Re: [PACENTRE] what counties considered to be Pennsylvania Dutch > > >Hi Mark, > >Pennsylvania Dutch refers more to a people. I live in Upper Bucks County in >Pa, and this area along with Berks, Northampton, Leigh counties have a large >settlement of Pa Duth....they were german speaking people who settled this >area. > >Marlene > >Let music fill your spirit! >Start out by supporting Chamber Arts Guild Chorus >www.chamberartsguild.org > >And for the child in you also > >Check out Mike Ford's latest musical adventure, "Dog Train". >www.boyntonfordmusic.com/products.htm > >"We must be the change we wish to see in the world" Mahatma Gandhi > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:58 PM >Subject: [PACENTRE] what counties considered to be Pennsylvania Dutch > > > > Hi all, > > I read an email earlier talking about a couple of counties in Pennsylvania > > as Pennsylvania Dutch. I am familiar with the term but don't know exactly > > what counties they would have been. > > Can anybody tell me? > > > > Thank you, > > Mark in Kansas > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security > > tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, > > free AOL Mail and more. > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] >with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of >the message >________________________________________________________________________ >Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and >security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from >across the web, free AOL Mail and more. > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

With great gratitude always to Justin for his good and helpful work in our behalf, let me try to just a teeny bit clarity what he wrote here: > Centre County's settlement can be understood, briefly, in this way: > > 1700s - initial influx of Scots-Irish (Presbyterian) settlers in the valleys > 1790s-1840s - "Pennsylvania Dutch" (Lutheran and Reformed, > Evangelical/United Brethren, a few Mennonite) move into the valleys > from the southeastern counties; These are separate groups: Lutherans (all based on what some of us call the "Muhlenberg" tradition, recognizing that Muhlenberg was NOT the earliest of these immigrants), who taught principally from Luther's Large (for pastors) and Small (for family use) Cathecisms, the Augsburg Confession, etc. German Reformed: followers of Ulrich Zwingi from the Palatinate (die Pfalz, now part of the state of Rheinland-Pfalz) and who taughty principally from the Heidelberg Catechism Evangelical Church: followers of Jakob Albrecht (Jacob Albright), for whom Albright College in Reading PA is named. His followers were esp. numerous NW in (present-day) Union, Snyder, and Centre Counties -- others also? -- but also in (present-day) Lancaster, Lebanon, Berks, Northampton, Lehigh Counties -- perhaps a few others also? -- and the Evangelical Home and hospital just north of Lewisburg reflects this history. United Brethren Church -- more properly, the United Brethren in Christ Church: followers of the famous meeting of German Reformed pastor Philipp Otterbein and Mennonite preacher Martin Böhm (or if you wish, Boehm), at the barn on the farm of one Mr. Long in Manheim Township, just north of Lancaster. This meeting gradually led to the founding of this denomination ca 1800 at Frederick, MD, with the name comign from the words of Otterbein at Long's barn, "Wir sind Brüder" -- "We are brothers." Otterbein was a pastor at York PA at the time of the Long's Barn meeting, but he became pastor of the German Reformed congregation in Baltimore which still exists in the "Inner Harbor area and just a bit east of Oriole Field at Camden Yards; the church now bears the name Otterbein United Methodist Church, for it went along into the newly-formed United Brethren in Christ denomination soon after 1800, one of the ancestors of the present-day United Methodist Church. NB.: this group is not to be confused with an Anabaptist group established in Pennsylvania and known to this day as the Brethren in Christ Church, which, for example, operates Messiah College at Grantham, not many miles south of Harrisburg. The "Albrighters" became numerous northwest of Harrisburg. I am not aware if the Untied Brethren did and would be grateful to be updated on that question. Justin, this is, indeed, YOUR church heritage. Would you be willing to take all of us a step yet further in detail? Interesting, too: the German Lutherans and the German Reformed often shared the same church building, and the old joke used to be that sometimes their services of worship were so similar that you couldn't tell which denomination's pastor was holding forth until they prayed the Lord's Prayer, where the Lutherans began "Vater unser in Himmelreich" and the Reformed "Unser Vater in Himmelreich." Such "union churches" remain, including one of my family background in Freeburg, Snyder Co. I assume that the Lutherans and Reformed once shared the same buildings in Rebersburg in Brush Valley, Centre Co, another of my family ancestry sites, and at Centre Hall. Aaronsburg, Millheim, and Tusseyville also? The two definitely shared the same building in Boalsburg until the Reformed congregation erected her own building just south of the Lutheran building. One of my family folks, Henry Meyer, buried right next to the west wall of the present-day Lutheran building, was a leader in the Reformed congregation in he days when the Reformed worshiped in the "union church" on where the current Lutheran building now stands. Indeed, it would be interesting to see a list of "union churches" (Lutheran and Reformed and with perhaps other denominational bodies joining them) in Centre Co. Perhaps such a list already exists; yes? What writing exists regarding the relationship of the Scotts-Irish (thus, often Presbyterians, as at Center Hill, not far north of Potters Mill at the corner where the road goes to Tusseyville) and the Germans. There would have been at least a bit closer theological concordance, if not cultural bearing, between the German Reformed and the Presbyterians, both being of the overall "reformed" background, but it is important how the cultural similarities brought Lutherans and German Reformed together in "union churches" despite sharp differences in certain areas of theological disputation. Mit besten Grüßen Karl E. Moyer Lancaster PA

Karl, Thanks for your extensive commentary. See my notes below: At 12:33 PM 1/8/2007, Karl Moyer wrote: > With great gratitude always to Justin for his good and helpful work in >our behalf, let me try to just a teeny bit clarity what he wrote here: > > > Centre County's settlement can be understood, briefly, in this way: > > > > 1700s - initial influx of Scots-Irish > (Presbyterian) settlers in the valleys > > 1790s-1840s - "Pennsylvania Dutch" (Lutheran and Reformed, > > Evangelical/United Brethren, a few Mennonite) move into the valleys > > from the southeastern counties; > >These are separate groups: >Lutherans (all based on what some of us call the "Muhlenberg" tradition, >recognizing that Muhlenberg was NOT the earliest of these immigrants), who >taught principally from Luther's Large (for pastors) and Small (for family >use) Cathecisms, the Augsburg Confession, etc. I'd be interested to know more about the "Muhlenberg" tradition. Is this a primary distinction from, say, the Zinzendorf tradition or the John Casper Stoever tradition? (I know those two were often at loggerheads, as was Pastor Stoever generally, it appears!) >German Reformed: followers of Ulrich Zwingi from the Palatinate (die Pfalz, >now part of the state of Rheinland-Pfalz) and who taughty principally from >the Heidelberg Catechism > >Evangelical Church: followers of Jakob Albrecht (Jacob Albright), for whom >Albright College in Reading PA is named. His followers were esp. numerous >NW in (present-day) Union, Snyder, and Centre Counties -- others also? -- >but also in (present-day) Lancaster, Lebanon, Berks, Northampton, Lehigh >Counties -- perhaps a few others also? -- and the Evangelical Home and >hospital just north of Lewisburg reflects this history. The Evangelical Association "Albrights" had a strong foothold in the German valleys -- Penns Valley and Brush Valley in particular. The Woodward congregation traces its origins back to 1806, and I believe Rev. Albright made personal visitations here. Humorous anecdotes on the activities of some of the Gramlys and Spanglers following their conversion regarding the use of whisky for farm hands at harvest time (they disallowed it) and the outcry of their Lutheran-Reformed neighbors is found in the Miles Township section of Linn's History, and is entertaining reading. The Fourth General Conference of the Evangelical Association was held at the Paradise Church in Penn Twp. in 1839, with Bishop Johannes Seybert, I believe, presiding. Trinity Evangelical Church in Bellefonte was not founded until 1889. This was my grandmother Houser's home church before she married my grandfather. Centre County was heavily impacted by the Esher-Dubbs split (1894-1922), with most of the congregations here following Bishop Dubbs and adhering to the United Evangelical Church. This resulted in a near-doubling of congregations, as they lost title to the buildings, and a few Esherites tenaciously hung on, but most succumbed. The Historical Society of the Central Pennsylvania Conference of the United Methodist Church documented many of these congregations in its annual publication some years back. One of the notable "Esher" congregations included the Egg Hill Church in Potter Twp., under the legacy of "Father David Hennigh" (1809-1891), which closed in 1927. After the reunification in 1922, most of the congregations ended up in the Dubbs buildings, often across the street from the old buildings, some of which are in use as houses today. >United Brethren Church -- more properly, the United Brethren in Christ >Church: followers of the famous meeting of German Reformed pastor Philipp >Otterbein and Mennonite preacher Martin Böhm (or if you wish, Boehm), at the >barn on the farm of one Mr. Long in Manheim Township, just north of >Lancaster. This meeting gradually led to the founding of this denomination >ca 1800 at Frederick, MD, with the name comign from the words of Otterbein >at Long's barn, "Wir sind Brüder" -- "We are brothers." Otterbein was a >pastor at York PA at the time of the Long's Barn meeting, but he became >pastor of the German Reformed congregation in Baltimore which still exists >in the "Inner Harbor area and just a bit east of Oriole Field at Camden >Yards; the church now bears the name Otterbein United Methodist Church, for >it went along into the newly-formed United Brethren in Christ denomination >soon after 1800, one of the ancestors of the present-day United Methodist >Church. NB.: this group is not to be confused with an Anabaptist group >established in Pennsylvania and known to this day as the Brethren in Christ >Church, which, for example, operates Messiah College at Grantham, not many >miles south of Harrisburg. > > The "Albrighters" became numerous northwest of Harrisburg. I am not >aware if the Untied Brethren did and would be grateful to be updated on that >question. Justin, this is, indeed, YOUR church heritage. Would you be >willing to take all of us a step yet further in detail? The Church of the United Brethren in Christ also had a strong foothold in parts of Centre County. They did not take off in Penns Valley, although there was a church at Millheim connected with the celebrated Rev. Adam Noon, and also a congregation at Rebersburg for a short time. My 4th great grandfather, Rev. Martin Houser, was a circuit-rider for the UB Church, and was active in congregations at Houserville, Bellefonte, and other places. (The Bellefonte congregation is one of the ancestors of Faith UMC in Bellefonte, one of the largest churches in the area.) There were also UB churches at Valley View (my church), Stormstown, Paradise (Patton Twp.), and a string of them in the upper Bald Eagle Valley (Hannah, Martha, Mount Pleasant, etc.) and the efforts of Rev. Homer Gauntt in the 1930s created Woodycrest and Buffalo Run United Brethren Churches. There were probably several others I'm not thinking of at the moment. > Interesting, too: the German Lutherans and the German Reformed often >shared the same church building, and the old joke used to be that sometimes >their services of worship were so similar that you couldn't tell which >denomination's pastor was holding forth until they prayed the Lord's Prayer, >where the Lutherans began "Vater unser in Himmelreich" and the Reformed >"Unser Vater in Himmelreich." Such "union churches" remain, including one >of my family background in Freeburg, Snyder Co. I assume that the Lutherans >and Reformed once shared the same buildings in Rebersburg in Brush Valley, >Centre Co, another of my family ancestry sites, and at Centre Hall. >Aaronsburg, Millheim, and Tusseyville also? There are two union churches left in Centre County -- Emmanuel Union Church at Tusseyville, and St. John's Union Church at Farmers Mills, Gregg Twp. Rebersburg was union until 1876; Boalsburg was union until the 1850s or 1860s (you would know that date, Karl). Penns Creek Church in Gregg Twp. was union until 1859, giving birth to Penns Creek Lutheran (now defunct) and Salem UCC (now) in Penn Twp. Centre Hall church was union for some period of time. Aaronsburg was never union; the Salem Lutheran and St. Peter's Reformed congregations had separate buildings and graveyards from the 1790s forward. I do not know whether Millheim had a union church. Holy Cross Lutheran in Gregg Twp. was union from ca. 1848 to ca. 1871, when the Reformed side disintegrated. The church at Pine Hall, Ferguson Twp., may have been union for some length of time. Pine Grove Mills also had a union church, with the Lutheran side surviving to this day in a new building. Maybe more. > The two definitely shared the same building in Boalsburg until the >Reformed congregation erected her own building just south of the Lutheran >building. One of my family folks, Henry Meyer, buried right next to the >west wall of the present-day Lutheran building, was a leader in the Reformed >congregation in he days when the Reformed worshiped in the "union church" >on where the current Lutheran building now stands. Indeed, it would be >interesting to see a list of "union churches" (Lutheran and Reformed and >with perhaps other denominational bodies joining them) in Centre Co. >Perhaps such a list already exists; yes? > > What writing exists regarding the relationship of the Scotts-Irish >(thus, often Presbyterians, as at Center Hill, not far north of Potters Mill >at the corner where the road goes to Tusseyville) and the Germans. There >would have been at least a bit closer theological concordance, if not >cultural bearing, between the German Reformed and the Presbyterians, both >being of the overall "reformed" background, but it is important how the >cultural similarities brought Lutherans and German Reformed together in >"union churches" despite sharp differences in certain areas of theological >disputation. Yes, the early English-speaking recorders often called the German Reformed people "Calvinist Presbyterian" or some such terminology in their records. You and I discussed this, concerning the church at Reamstown, a few years back on the Lancaster Co. list, as I recall. I've not done a lot of research in the area of cultural interaction -- that would be very interesting. > Mit besten Grüßen > > Karl E. Moyer > Lancaster PA > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >email to [email protected] with the >word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the >subject and the body of the message

Jeff, I read thru your response. I wonder if you would care to comment on one of my early relatives. His name was Casper Ross. He emigrated from Holland to Pa in 1802 and settled in Centre County. I understand now he really wouldn't be considered "Pennsylvania Dutch" however his father was from Germany, Straaslund, mother from Amsterdam. Casper was baptised in an Evangelical-Lutheran church in Amsterdam. I don't know what that makes him, but from the explanation would you espect a person like Casper, to comfortably settle in Centre county? Thank you, Mark in Kansa -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 4:52 PM Subject: Re: [PACENTRE] what counties considered to be Pennsylvania Dutch Karl, Thanks for your extensive commentary. See my notes below: At 12:33 PM 1/8/2007, Karl Moyer wrote: > With great gratitude always to Justin for his good and helpful work in >our behalf, let me try to just a teeny bit clarity what he wrote here: > > > Centre County's settlement can be understood, briefly, in this way: > > > > 1700s - initial influx of Scots-Irish > (Presbyterian) settlers in the valleys > > 1790s-1840s - "Pennsylvania Dutch" (Lutheran and Reformed, > > Evangelical/United Brethren, a few Mennonite) move into the valleys > > from the southeastern counties; > >These are separate groups: >Lutherans (all based on what some of us call the "Muhlenberg" tradition, >recognizing that Muhlenberg was NOT the earliest of these immigrants), who >taught principally from Luther's Large (for pastors) and Small (for family >use) Cathecisms, the Augsburg Confession, etc. I'd be interested to know more about the "Muhlenberg" tradition. Is this a primary distinction from, say, the Zinzendorf tradition or the John Casper Stoever tradition? (I know those two were often at loggerheads, as was Pastor Stoever generally, it appears!) >German Reformed: followers of Ulrich Zwingi from the Palatinate (die Pfalz, >now part of the state of Rheinland-Pfalz) and who taughty principally from >the Heidelberg Catechism > >Evangelical Church: followers of Jakob Albrecht (Jacob Albright), for whom >Albright College in Reading PA is named. His followers were esp. numerous >NW in (present-day) Union, Snyder, and Centre Counties -- others also? -- >but also in (present-day) Lancaster, Lebanon, Berks, Northampton, Lehigh >Counties -- perhaps a few others also? -- and the Evangelical Home and >hospital just north of Lewisburg reflects this history. The Evangelical Association "Albrights" had a strong foothold in the German valleys -- Penns Valley and Brush Valley in particular. The Woodward congregation traces its origins back to 1806, and I believe Rev. Albright made personal visitations here. Humorous anecdotes on the activities of some of the Gramlys and Spanglers following their conversion regarding the use of whisky for farm hands at harvest time (they disallowed it) and the outcry of their Lutheran-Reformed neighbors is found in the Miles Township section of Linn's History, and is entertaining reading. The Fourth General Conference of the Evangelical Association was held at the Paradise Church in Penn Twp. in 1839, with Bishop Johannes Seybert, I believe, presiding. Trinity Evangelical Church in Bellefonte was not founded until 1889. This was my grandmother Houser's home church before she married my grandfather. Centre County was heavily impacted by the Esher-Dubbs split (1894-1922), with most of the congregations here following Bishop Dubbs and adhering to the United Evangelical Church. This resulted in a near-doubling of congregations, as they lost title to the buildings, and a few Esherites tenaciously hung on, but most succumbed. The Historical Society of the Central Pennsylvania Conference of the United Methodist Church documented many of these congregations in its annual publication some years back. One of the notable "Esher" congregations included the Egg Hill Church in Potter Twp., under the legacy of "Father David Hennigh" (1809-1891), which closed in 1927. After the reunification in 1922, most of the congregations ended up in the Dubbs buildings, often across the street from the old buildings, some of which are in use as houses today. >United Brethren Church -- more properly, the United Brethren in Christ >Church: followers of the famous meeting of German Reformed pastor Philipp >Otterbein and Mennonite preacher Martin Böhm (or if you wish, Boehm), at the >barn on the farm of one Mr. Long in Manheim Township, just north of >Lancaster. This meeting gradually led to the founding of this denomination >ca 1800 at Frederick, MD, with the name comign from the words of Otterbein >at Long's barn, "Wir sind Brüder" -- "We are brothers." Otterbein was a >pastor at York PA at the time of the Long's Barn meeting, but he became >pastor of the German Reformed congregation in Baltimore which still exists >in the "Inner Harbor area and just a bit east of Oriole Field at Camden >Yards; the church now bears the name Otterbein United Methodist Church, for >it went along into the newly-formed United Brethren in Christ denomination >soon after 1800, one of the ancestors of the present-day United Methodist >Church. NB.: this group is not to be confused with an Anabaptist group >established in Pennsylvania and known to this day as the Brethren in Christ >Church, which, for example, operates Messiah College at Grantham, not many >miles south of Harrisburg. > > The "Albrighters" became numerous northwest of Harrisburg. I am not >aware if the Untied Brethren did and would be grateful to be updated on that >question. Justin, this is, indeed, YOUR church heritage. Would you be >willing to take all of us a step yet further in detail? The Church of the United Brethren in Christ also had a strong foothold in parts of Centre County. They did not take off in Penns Valley, although there was a church at Millheim connected with the celebrated Rev. Adam Noon, and also a congregation at Rebersburg for a short time. My 4th great grandfather, Rev. Martin Houser, was a circuit-rider for the UB Church, and was active in congregations at Houserville, Bellefonte, and other places. (The Bellefonte congregation is one of the ancestors of Faith UMC in Bellefonte, one of the largest churches in the area.) There were also UB churches at Valley View (my church), Stormstown, Paradise (Patton Twp.), and a string of them in the upper Bald Eagle Valley (Hannah, Martha, Mount Pleasant, etc.) and the efforts of Rev. Homer Gauntt in the 1930s created Woodycrest and Buffalo Run United Brethren Churches. There were probably several others I'm not thinking of at the moment. > Interesting, too: the German Lutherans and the German Reformed often >shared the same church building, and the old joke used to be that sometimes >their services of worship were so similar that you couldn't tell which >denomination's pastor was holding forth until they prayed the Lord's Prayer, >where the Lutherans began "Vater unser in Himmelreich" and the Reformed >"Unser Vater in Himmelreich." Such "union churches" remain, including one >of my family background in Freeburg, Snyder Co. I assume that the Lutherans >and Reformed once shared the same buildings in Rebersburg in Brush Valley, >Centre Co, another of my family ancestry sites, and at Centre Hall. >Aaronsburg, Millheim, and Tusseyville also? There are two union churches left in Centre County -- Emmanuel Union Church at Tusseyville, and St. John's Union Church at Farmers Mills, Gregg Twp. Rebersburg was union until 1876; Boalsburg was union until the 1850s or 1860s (you would know that date, Karl). Penns Creek Church in Gregg Twp. was union until 1859, giving birth to Penns Creek Lutheran (now defunct) and Salem UCC (now) in Penn Twp. Centre Hall church was union for some period of time. Aaronsburg was never union; the Salem Lutheran and St. Peter's Reformed congregations had separate buildings and graveyards from the 1790s forward. I do not know whether Millheim had a union church. Holy Cross Lutheran in Gregg Twp. was union from ca. 1848 to ca. 1871, when the Reformed side disintegrated. The church at Pine Hall, Ferguson Twp., may have been union for some length of time. Pine Grove Mills also had a union church, with the Lutheran side surviving to this day in a new building. Maybe more. > The two definitely shared the same building in Boalsburg until the >Reformed congregation erected her own building just south of the Lutheran >building. One of my family folks, Henry Meyer, buried right next to the >west wall of the present-day Lutheran building, was a leader in the Reformed >congregation in he days when the Reformed worshiped in the "union church" >on where the current Lutheran building now stands. Indeed, it would be >interesting to see a list of "union churches" (Lutheran and Reformed and >with perhaps other denominational bodies joining them) in Centre Co. >Perhaps such a list already exists; yes? > > What writing exists regarding the relationship of the Scotts-Irish >(thus, often Presbyterians, as at Center Hill, not far north of Potters Mill >at the corner where the road goes to Tusseyville) and the Germans. There >would have been at least a bit closer theological concordance, if not >cultural bearing, between the German Reformed and the Presbyterians, both >being of the overall "reformed" background, but it is important how the >cultural similarities brought Lutherans and German Reformed together in >"union churches" despite sharp differences in certain areas of theological >disputation. Yes, the early English-speaking recorders often called the German Reformed people "Calvinist Presbyterian" or some such terminology in their records. You and I discussed this, concerning the church at Reamstown, a few years back on the Lancaster Co. list, as I recall. I've not done a lot of research in the area of cultural interaction -- that would be very interesting. > Mit besten Grüßen > > Karl E. Moyer > Lancaster PA > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >email to [email protected] with the >word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the >subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.