> WOW! this is over my head. think I'll take a couple days off after reading > this! Actually it is interesting but speaking for myself, I need to digest it > a bit! I am curious, though, Karl, John Casper appears in your email. I have > many,many John Casper Ros(s) in my group. Is your group from the the > Netherlands. If you don't mind where did the "John Casper" originate? Was > Casper more of a Christian name used ah...more of a title then moved around > when they arrived in America? I ask because not only do my ancestors have John > Casper all the generations thru but the first emigrant "Casper" Ros(s) was > simply listed as Casper. I wonder if he would have had a middle or first > name? Thank you! Mark Ross Permit a question -- and please, NOT a negative criticism, either!! -- about the above. Every so often I get a message that looks like the above with those little upright rectangular "boxes" separating sentences. I've wondered if they represent the use of the space bar, and I've wondered who they appear in my screen. Does anyone know if they come from a particular sort of computer or text program or e-mail program? Mark, do you write directly into an e-mail program? Now to the substance of your questions: Apparently many Germans had the practice of giving a child several names, the first of which was of some saint -- perhaps also of some other highly-esteemed person?? -- but really used the second name as the actual name. Thus, for example, my great-grandfather John Henry Moyer (d. 1872) signed his will as "Henry Moyer," and the sale bill regarding some of his personal property, etc., listed him likewise, even though his grave marker is John Henry Moyer. However, his son John Henry Moyer, (d. 1928) began to be known as "John," and one might guess that among the Lebanon Co. Pa. Dutch this practice changed at about the turn of the century. I would be grateful to anyone who can comment about this from a position of good authority on the subject. One might guess, therefore, that John Casper Stöver actually went by "Casper," though we today may suffer the "problem" of looking at formal documents that include his name, see his full "Christian name" with that saint's name first, and conclude, out of our own cultural assumptions, that HE also called himself "John Casper Stöver" or even just "John." <Casper> was a common German name, of course, and you might raise the same sort of issue with a name <John Casper Roß>, though you should not conclude firmly that he went by <Casper> simply from my comments here. Related to all this: Justin: when branches of my Meyer family moved to Centre Co, they maintained the Meyer name, and it remains there to this day, as with Meyer's Dairy and Don Meyer's motel the Autoport, both on East Atherton Street. Yet, in Lebanon Co., the name went to "Moyer," which was a Pa. Dutch mis-pronunciation of "Meyer" and which began to take on the spelling people were hearing. This is so blatant as to find my great-great-grandfather, who moved to Brush Valley in retired years, buried at Rebersburg under the name Michael MOYER but two years later a grandson of a Centre Co. so buried as William Franklin MEYER: grandfather and grandson buried next to each other with different surname spellings!! And since Michael's widow moved to a son west of Boalsburg and died 30 years later, her son buried her at Boasburg as Elizabeth MEYER!! Husband and wife buried under different surnames and in different locations. So, is there other evidence that Pa. Dutch folks who came to Centre Co. maintained older cultural ways, perhaps including therefore this question of one <John Casper Roß> really being known as <Casper>? Can anyone address these question with better authority than I? Cordially, Dr. Karl E. Moyer Lancaster PA

Hi Karl, Negative criticism, I get it all the time. A little more won't matter! Just kidding, the boxes you refer are not visible on my screen at all! Your response looks fine as well. The only time I would see these characters, if they are characters, is using a word processor. However, I put my numerous questions directly into AOL mail. Sorry can't be of any help there. So you are saying you see these characters on your side then on my email or all email? I'd be curious to know? On Casper Ros or Ross he's a problem for me. I'm getting headaches now trying to figure him out. Like you were saying, there were several John Casper Ross's throughout the generations. Some went by John others by John Casper Ross. Then at the top of the pyramid stood "Casper Ross" first to America. But he didn't have or put down another middle name anywhere that I have found. However, in corresponding to some researchers in the Netherlands, they have found a Casper Jacob Ros(s), only 1 "s". He was born in 1781 in Amsterdam, same place the Nat/Cit papers have him as being a Native and Citizen. I could go on and on, but, 2 things bother me alot about this. 1- his fathers name is Christian Ros, his mother's name is Aalida Hop. 2- his birth date according to the 1850-1860 and nat/cit papers has im being born in 1875. His father was from Germany right across the Rhine from Amsterdam, and his mother from Amsterdam. It makes me wonder why he didn't name any of his kids after his father or even his middle or given name, assuming "Casper" is more a Christian title. You have made me think of another thing and that of his last name. "Ros" is typical of Dutch, however if his father was German, why would the last name be "Ros" rather than the german end?(I can't put the special character on the end) Any comments? Mark in Kansas -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 9:13 PM Subject: Re: [PACENTRE] what counties considered to be Pennsylvania Dutch > WOW! this is over my head. think I'll take a couple days off after reading > this! Actually it is interesting but speaking for myself, I need to digest it > a bit! I am curious, though, Karl, John Casper appears in your email. I have > many,many John Casper Ros(s) in my group. Is your group from the the > Netherlands. If you don't mind where did the "John Casper" originate? Was > Casper more of a Christian name used ah...more of a title then moved around > when they arrived in America? I ask because not only do my ancestors have John > Casper all the generations thru but the first emigrant "Casper" Ros(s) was > simply listed as Casper. I wonder if he would have had a middle or first > name? Thank you! Mark Ross Permit a question -- and please, NOT a negative criticism, either!! -- about the above. Every so often I get a message that looks like the above with those little upright rectangular "boxes" separating sentences. I've wondered if they represent the use of the space bar, and I've wondered who they appear in my screen. Does anyone know if they come from a particular sort of computer or text program or e-mail program? Mark, do you write directly into an e-mail program? Now to the substance of your questions: Apparently many Germans had the practice of giving a child several names, the first of which was of some saint -- perhaps also of some other highly-esteemed person?? -- but really used the second name as the actual name. Thus, for example, my great-grandfather John Henry Moyer (d. 1872) signed his will as "Henry Moyer," and the sale bill regarding some of his personal property, etc., listed him likewise, even though his grave marker is John Henry Moyer. However, his son John Henry Moyer, (d. 1928) began to be known as "John," and one might guess that among the Lebanon Co. Pa. Dutch this practice changed at about the turn of the century. I would be grateful to anyone who can comment about this from a position of good authority on the subject. One might guess, therefore, that John Casper Stöver actually went by "Casper," though we today may suffer the "problem" of looking at formal documents that include his name, see his full "Christian name" with that saint's name first, and conclude, out of our own cultural assumptions, that HE also called himself "John Casper Stöver" or even just "John." <Casper> was a common German name, of course, and you might raise the same sort of issue with a name <John Casper Roß>, though you should not conclude firmly that he went by <Casper> simply from my comments here. Related to all this: Justin: when branches of my Meyer family moved to Centre Co, they maintained the Meyer name, and it remains there to this day, as with Meyer's Dairy and Don Meyer's motel the Autoport, both on East Atherton Street. Yet, in Lebanon Co., the name went to "Moyer," which was a Pa. Dutch mis-pronunciation of "Meyer" and which began to take on the spelling people were hearing. This is so blatant as to find my great-great-grandfather, who moved to Brush Valley in retired years, buried at Rebersburg under the name Michael MOYER but two years later a grandson of a Centre Co. so buried as William Franklin MEYER: grandfather and grandson buried next to each other with different surname spellings!! And since Michael's widow moved to a son west of Boalsburg and died 30 years later, her son buried her at Boasburg as Elizabeth MEYER!! Husband and wife buried under different surnames and in different locations. So, is there other evidence that Pa. Dutch folks who came to Centre Co. maintained older cultural ways, perhaps including therefore this question of one <John Casper Roß> really being known as <Casper>? Can anyone address these question with better authority than I? Cordially, Dr. Karl E. Moyer Lancaster PA ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.