Robin, Info I've seen indicates that Johann Herman Helman, who died 1797 in Haines Twp, Centre (then Northumberland) Co, had a son Johannes, b 8 Aug 1787 and bp 24 Apr 1789 at the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Middleton, Frederick Co, MD. This is a year and 3 days off of the date you have. What I believe makes this data relative to your search is that at least two of this Johannes' siblings -- Susan (Helman) Bechdel and Maria Magdalena (Helman) Brickley -- came to the Bald Eagle Valley, just as he did. This could be a connection. I really don't know at this point, however, whether this Johannes and your John are the same person. I have some ties to the Bechdel/Schenck connection and would be interested in sharing information. Justin Justin Kirk Houser Genealogist/Researcher of Central PA and Beyond Main Lines: Houser, Breon, Shawley, Ranio/Hrynio (and others) President, BAHS Class of 2003 Student Representative, BASD Board of Education Listowner, PACENTRE-L@Rootsweb.com Historian, Schürch Association of North America (specialty Central PA lines) Member, Valley View United Methodist Church "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature"