I have not been able to participate recently in the Pace-L discussions due to intense caregiver responsibilities with my mother in law. She requires constant attention day and night, and I am the “night shift” because I have the ability to sleep 25 minutes if you give me a 39 minute quiet spell, and my wife can’t do that. I have, however, been able to squeeze out a few minutes a day to follow the discussions. She is in the hospital now, and I found that this hospital has a free wi-fi connection within the hospital area. So I brought my laptop and I can get some things done. I am interested in the discussion of Richard and Isabella of Wapping/Richard and Isabella of Jamestown and the proofs that they are the same. It is gratifying to see so many posters questioning the sources, as this connection has been taken as if proven in earlier Pace Society publications, and there is no direct documentary evidence. However, I did not see a thorough examination of all of the circumstantial evidence in any of the posts, so I would like to try to sum it up. I am away from my home computer and do not have all the sources at my fingertips, but I will indicate which sources I have seen personally and know to exist. Start of course with the marriage in the Sepney parish records: Richard Pace of Wapping Wall Carpenter and Isabell Smyth of the same marryed the 5th day October 1608 It should be noted that despite diligent searching of London area parish records, no further mention has been found of Richard and Isabella. There was migration into London but virtually no migration out of London; it was THE place to be for an enterprising young man. One would expect to find birth records of children, death records, etc. if they had stayed. This at least suggests that they may have emigrated. Next, we know that a Richard and Isabella Pace arrived in Jamestown before the spring of 1616. The first record we have in America is in 1620 when Richard and Isabella received grants of 100 acres each. The original patents do not exist, but Isabella's renewal of her patent in 1628, when she was married to William Perry, states that she received the land as an "Ancient Planter". Their son George Pace also renewed his father's patent in that year, and his patent states that his father Richard received 100 acres based on "personal adventure", or in other words, for coming here himself. These documents would suggest that the Paces were here before Thomas Gates' departure in 1616, as that was the requirement set forth in the "Greate Charter" of 1618 for the designation of “ancient planter”. We know that there was a close relationship between the Paces and William Perry. It was “Perry’s Indian” who notified Richard Pace of the oncoming 1622 massacre. I believe but do not have the records on hand that Perry was a superintendent or something at Pace’s Paines, and Isabella married him after Richard died. Perry was from Poplar, adjacent to Wapping and in the Stepney parish. Their closeness indicates the probability that they knew one another in England. This is probably the strongest circumstantial evidence that the Wapping Paces and Jamestown Paces are the same. Then there is this: ENGLISH ADVENTURERS AND EMIGRANTS, 1609-1660 by Peter Wilson Coldham, Publ. Baltimore, 1984 p. 21, Wife of William Perry, Izabell (Widow of Richard Pace) 26 Aug 1629 mentions she is aged 40. (Amended land patent date 26 Aug 1627.) I’m not sure if the was 40 in 1689 or at the time of the amended land patent, but this indicates that she was a young woman of marriageable age in 1608 when the Paces were married in Stepney. (My program keeps trying to change Stony to Stony, so if I don’t catch it, you will understand.) I don’t understand how the amended land patent of 1627 fits in. The above of course is a secondary source. The primary source is a court deposition by Isabell when she returned to England to testify in a court case and stated her age. I do not have that source handy. It might be good to check out what kind of court case; did it show evidence that she was from the London area? Then there is this tantalizing record: Pub. Registers of England Christening Isabell Smyth, father John Smyth, St. Clement Danes, Westminster, London, England 4 May 1587 Which is within the age range for Isabella’s testimony. Sometimes folks didn’t know their exact ages or maybe rounded them off a little and the christening was not always in the year of birth. St. Clement Danes is near the waterfront in London a couple of miles upriver from Wapping. No proof here but a record worth storing and watching. How many Isabell Smyths could be born at about that time and of marriageable age in 1608? Next is the age of George. Does the following indicate that he was a minor at the time and therefore of young enough age to be born after the marriage of Richard Pace and Isabella Smythe? Is there other evidence of George’s age to suggest that he was born shortly after the marriage of Richard Pace and Isabella Smythe? George Pace, sonn and heire apparent to Richard Pace, dec'd., 400 acs. within the Corp of James Citty, 1 Sept. 1628, p. 64 The only DNA evidence we have is that of Antony Pace of London, whose 19th century ancestor was a barge builder directly across the Thames from Wapping, and with earlier records suggesting long term London ancestry. The first 25 markers did not look like a match but 26-37 markers were consistent with a relationship to our North Carolina Paces who seem to be descended from Richard of Jamestown (actual documentation not found but much circumstantial evidence and the Winnifred Aycock Lane letter—see discussion on the Pace Network). This suggests (but only faintly, I think) a London area ancestry for Richard. So what we have is a bunch of jigsaw puzzle pieces that fit together perfectly but we don’t have the pieces for the center of the puzzle. However, for my money, the evidence is strong enough for a 95% probability. Isabell/Isabella a slightly uncommon name, not like Mary or Sarah or Jane. How many Richard Paces could have married Isabellas in this time span? Incidentally—this is not my lineage. I am John of Middlesex. To those who have complained—Richard Pace as the first Pace in America and an important actor in American history is important to all of us. Roy Johnson