Oops, here's where I have to back up and confess that I have more expertise in DNA than I do in Pace genealogy. By Richard of NC, I was referring to that line that goes from Richard of Jamestown to George to Richard (II) to James to Richard (III), etc - the line that most believe to descend from Richard of Jamestown. All of you know that story better than I and many of you know how firm the connections are in the paper trail. I did not mean to suggest that this group DID NOT descend from Richard of Jamestown, but I feel that I am correct in stating that the DNA study did not PROVE the connection. What the Pace DNA study has shown is that a group of male Paces who believe that they descend from Richard of J. do in fact have a common male ancestor that might have been Richard of Jamestown. It supports the genealogical tale in that it does not disprove it. The DNA study does not tell us who that common male ancestor was - that conclusion has to be reached through wills, deeds, and whatever other paper trail can be found. The only way that DNA can prove descent from Richard of J. is to extract some DNA from his bones if you can find them. [I'm using the concept of "proof" loosely here, since DNA results only give us a probability that a hypothesis is true or false. A better way to state it is to say that it is highly, highly, extremely unlikely that the two big Pace lines (Middlesex & NC) descend from a common ancestor in recent generations. It is so unlikely that I can regard it as "proven."] I'm descended from one of the Paces who settled in Clarke Co, AL, in the first decades of the 19th century and who believed that we descended from Frederick Pace of Wales. In a web search a few years ago, I discovered that Bruce Howard and some others had concluded that Frederick of Wales was a myth. Mr. Howard seemed so adamant in this conclusion that I bought his book in the hope that it would allow me to flesh out my Pace ancestry all the way back to England. Instead, I found that his conclusion was based on the disappearance of some Paces in the Carolinas and the appearance shortly afterward of some very similar folk in Alabama. He made some large assumptions and concluded that these two groups were the same people. This could well be true, but it's a leap of faith that's a bit too large for me. So, I'm back to assuming that I descend from Frederick Pace of Wales. Only one line related to me has contributed DNA to the study (results show no relationship to other Pace lines), and I'm hoping for a couple of more divergent samples before I conclude firmly that Bruce Howard has it wrong. The other reason for my interest in the Pace DNA study is that I have a bit of training in the area. My university training was in plant genetics and I am employed as something of an applied geneticist (a plant breeder) who is trying to use the modern DNA (molecular) technologies in my work. It has required a lot of work for me to bring my skills up to modern levels and I find it fascinating that a group of laymen have been able to use DNA results to reach useful conclusions in their area of interest. Joe ----Original Message Follows---- From: Compurose@cs.com To: PACE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PACE-L] Re: PACE-D Digest V05 #173 Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 00:39:33 EST Joe has written that " To my mind, the Pace Y chromosome study has proven conclusively that two Pace lines (John of Middlesex and Richard of NC) did not descend from a common male ancestor here in America." and also "..... the Pace DNA study has not proven that either group descends from Richard Pace of Jamestown." I have not followed the posts about the DNA testing too carefully. I was interested in learning a connection of John of Middlesex to Richard Pace of Jamestown and when I read there was none, I didn't follow through to learn that there is no connection of Richard of NC to Richard of Jamestown either. Question - would you identify the Richard of NC... is this the line that has "always" been thought to be directly connected to Jamestown? And have there been any lines definitely connected, by DNA, to Richard of Jamestown? ==== PACE Mailing List ==== You can search archived messages from the Pace Mailing List by going to http://searches.rootsweb.com. If you need instructions just ask me - gordonpace@comcast.net

At 08:35 09/11/2005 -0600, Janders 45 wrote: >My university training was in plant genetics and I am employed as >something of an applied geneticist (a plant breeder) who is trying >to use the modern DNA (molecular) technologies in my work. It has >required a lot of work for me to bring my skills up to modern levels >and I find it fascinating that a group of laymen have been able to >use DNA results to reach useful conclusions in their area of interest. Even more unexpectedly, it emerged last week that a 15-year-old boy with a minimal amount of background information, an impressive quantity of initiative, and a sound understanding of the principles of Y-chromosome inheritance, has used the FTDNA database to help him find the identity of his anonymous-sperm-donor father. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4400778.stm Ellen