The differences in mutation speeds (fast/slow) as determined by FTDNA in the early stages of DNA testing have been shown to not always be correct. Marker DYS 390 is actually one of the faster markers rather than one of the slower markers tested by FTDNA. It has been reported on the Genealogy-DNA mail list that FTDNA is planning on revising their designations of fast/slow markers. Of the three markers with differences between the modal values for Group 3a and participant #8179, two markers (DYS 390 and DYS 447) are some of the faster markers tested by FTDNA. It is possible that no additional mutations will appear in the additional markers tested. If this happens then this would be a very interesting result for participants in Group 3a especially and for those who believe they descend from Richard Pace of Jamestown and Wapping, England. The only way to find out is with additional testing. Rebecca Christensen Roy Johnson <royj@webster.edu> wrote: Rebecca Christenson has pointed out that Antony Pace (#8179) matches 22/25 with our group 3a and suggests that an upgrade to 37 markers might be interesting. FTDNA says his 22/25 is a mismatch especially due to a mutation in the slow moving marker 390. This upgrade would have to be funded at $59.00. We have $14.00 in the general fund left over from the last funding. If you are interested in contributing, let me know. If it appears there is enough interest for the $59.00 I will send info on how to donate to the general fund. Roy Johnson DNA coordinator ==== PACE Mailing List ==== You can search archived messages from the Pace Mailing List by going to http://searches.rootsweb.com. If you need instructions just ask me - gordonpace@comcast.net

Interesting indeed, if it turns out there was a connection. It could be. It seems there has always been a lot of traffic between Wapping and Rotherhithe. Google threw up some accounts of 17th century trials at the Old Bailey. In one of these trials, a man named Richard Badcock tells how he was drinking in Wapping and a man said he would row him across the river to Rotherhithe (where he lived) "if I would give him a dram". Instead, they robbed him. That was in 1766, a long time after "our" Richard Pace. But it shows that at that time people were going across between Wapping and Rotherhithe pretty regularly. These accounts are at http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/html_sessions/T17661217.html. A tunnel was built between Wapping and Rotherhithe by Isambard Kingdom Brunel -- the first underwater tunnel in the world. There is an interesting account of the building of the tunnel at http://www.brunelenginehouse.org.uk/press_cuttings/southwark_news.pdf. According to this article, in the 18th century you could get from Rotherhithe to Wapping just by jumping from barge to barge. I see that Antony says his great grandfather and great great grandfather were barge builders. It does seem to fit with Richard Pace, carpenter, though I suppose we must bear in mind that the carpenter lived a good 2.5 centuries before the barge builders. Still, it's possible. Rotherhithe, by the way, is where the Mayflower sailed from. It would certainly be exciting if the DNA shows a close relationship. Won't prove anything, I suppose, but very interesting indeed. Rebecca, can you tell us what conclusions could reasonably be drawn (if any) if all the other markers turn out to match? Ellen