Hi Joyce. Thanks for the reply. I don't understand how that record could be interpreted to mean Richard was married to Rebecca Poythress. Sounds to me as if Francis Poythress owned a tract of land which included the plantations of Richard Pace, Joseph Carter, Edward Crosland, Thomas Kirkland, and Michael Rosser, Sr., and in 1718 Richard Pace bought the title to the land. He lived on the land before he bought it, but so apparently did all these other chaps, and there seems to be no suggestion that they were living there because they were related to Francis Poythress by marriage. (Is there? I could not find anything to indicate it.) A fuller version of that entry reads as follows: "Prince George Wills and Deeds, p. 269, November 11, 1718 Frances Poythress, the Elder, of Westover Parish, Prince George County, to Richard Pace of the same, "for divers good causes and considerations him there unto wavering but more especially for and in consideration of the value of One hundred pounds Sterling to him in hand paid by the said Richard Pace" for the land "Whereon the said Richard Pace now liveth, the plantation whereon Joseph Carter, Edward Crossland, Thomas Kirkland, & Michael Rosser Senr. Liveth...being about four hundred acres bounded on the lands of the said Francis Poythress according to several Lines of Marked Trees lately made between the said Francis and the said Richard." Wit: Peter Wynne, John (B) Bonner, Thomas Poythress ff. Poythress This seems to make it clear that the basis for the deal was cash paid on the nail. On the same day we have: "Nov. 11, 1718 Francis Poythress of Westover Parish, Pr. Geo. Co. to Thomas Goodwyn of Surry Co., 100 acres in Westover Parish, Pr. Geo. next to Peter Grammer, and lands lately purchased of Richard Pace by said Francis Poythress F. Poythress Wit: Peter Wynne John (JB) Bonner Thomas Poythress " and "Nov. 11, 1718 Richard Pace and Francis Poythress of Pr. Geo. Co. to Thomas Goodwyn of Surry Co. for £ 100, 400 acres in Westopher Par. bounded by Ol Town Run, path from old Michael Rosser's plantation, Edward Goodrich's, Richard Pace's, place where John Whittmore lately lived together with 200 acres of land at head of Richard Pace's dividend, next to Mr. Charles Anderson, dec'd, F. Poythress Richard Pace Wit: Peter Wynne John (JB) Bonner Thomas Poythress " To me these records just show that Francis Poythress, Richard Pace, Thomas Goodwyn and John Bonner were all conducting land transactions between one another, for money not for love, and they all went to court on 11 November 1718 to get it sorted. The deed of 1721, in which Rebecca is referred to as Rebecca Poythress (not Rebecca Pace), seems to me to show that Rebecca Poythress was not married to Richard Pace, else she would have been referred to as Rebecca Pace, not Rebecca Poythress. The land in question was apparently given by Mrs Rebecca Pothress to her two daughters, Ann and Rebecca. Ann is referred to by her married name, as Ann Green; if Rebecca had been married in 1721, she would no doubt have been also referred to by her married name. Since she is named as Poythress still, the conclusion (it seems to me) must be that she was unmarried. "Deed 15 November 1721, from Burrell Green and Ann, his wife, and Francis Poythress all of Surry County, conveying a tract of land in Prince George County to Robert Hunnicut patented by Rebecca Poythress (being in all 1000 A.) on 29 April 1692, half of which land is in the possession of Littleberry Eppes, 300 acres of said land was given to Rebecca Poythress a daughter of said Rebecca, and 200 A. to the said Ann Green." What do you think? Ellen

Virginia Marriages Vol 2 Part 2 page 25,Under the Poythress family notes Rebecca Poythress -m- Richard Pace but no date given several records indicate they married but no dates given Va Record Vol 2 Part 2 Page 146 Richard Pace d- 1738 believed to have -m- Rebecca Poythress d/o Francis Poythress & Rebecca Goggin I also found one other reference that mention that Richard Pace removed to NC in the Will of Richard Pace of Bertie NC Feb court 1738 it mention his wife name as Rebecca so when you put it all togather more or less leads one to believe Rebecca Poythress was Richard Pace's wife... but I am finding in 1700 records its so hard to prove up things like I like.... ((Grin)) Does this Help Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: <genealogy@snuffy.britishlibrary.net> To: <PACE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 7:09 AM Subject: RE: [PACE-L] Poythress > Hi Joyce. Thanks for the reply. > > I don't understand how that record could be > interpreted to mean Richard was married to > Rebecca Poythress. Sounds to me as if Francis > Poythress owned a tract of land which included > the plantations of Richard Pace, Joseph Carter, > Edward Crosland, Thomas Kirkland, and Michael > Rosser, Sr., and in 1718 Richard Pace bought the > title to the land. He lived on the land before > he bought it, but so apparently did all these > other chaps, and there seems to be no suggestion > that they were living there because they were > related to Francis Poythress by marriage. (Is > there? I could not find anything to indicate it.) > > A fuller version of that entry reads as follows: > > "Prince George Wills and Deeds, p. 269, November 11, 1718 > Frances Poythress, the Elder, of Westover Parish, > Prince George County, to Richard Pace of the > same, "for divers good causes and considerations > him there unto wavering but more especially for > and in consideration of the value of One hundred > pounds Sterling to him in hand paid by the said > Richard Pace" for the land "Whereon the said > Richard Pace now liveth, the plantation whereon > Joseph Carter, Edward Crossland, Thomas Kirkland, > & Michael Rosser Senr. Liveth...being about four > hundred acres bounded on the lands of the said > Francis Poythress according to several Lines of > Marked Trees lately made between the said Francis and the said Richard." > Wit: Peter Wynne, John (B) Bonner, Thomas Poythress ff. Poythress > > This seems to make it clear that the basis for > the deal was cash paid on the nail. > > On the same day we have: > > "Nov. 11, 1718 Francis Poythress of Westover > Parish, Pr. Geo. Co. to Thomas Goodwyn of Surry > Co., 100 acres in Westover Parish, Pr. Geo. next > to Peter Grammer, and lands lately purchased of > Richard Pace by said Francis Poythress > F. Poythress > Wit: > Peter Wynne > John (JB) Bonner > Thomas Poythress " > > and > > "Nov. 11, 1718 Richard Pace and Francis Poythress > of Pr. Geo. Co. to Thomas Goodwyn of Surry Co. > for £ 100, 400 acres in Westopher Par. bounded by > Ol Town Run, path from old Michael Rosser's > plantation, Edward Goodrich's, Richard Pace's, > place where John Whittmore lately lived together > with 200 acres of land at head of Richard Pace's > dividend, next to Mr. Charles Anderson, dec'd, > F. Poythress > Richard Pace > Wit: > Peter Wynne > John (JB) Bonner > Thomas Poythress " > > To me these records just show that Francis > Poythress, Richard Pace, Thomas Goodwyn and John > Bonner were all conducting land transactions > between one another, for money not for love, and > they all went to court on 11 November 1718 to get it sorted. > > The deed of 1721, in which Rebecca is referred to > as Rebecca Poythress (not Rebecca Pace), seems to > me to show that Rebecca Poythress was not married > to Richard Pace, else she would have been > referred to as Rebecca Pace, not Rebecca > Poythress. The land in question was apparently > given by Mrs Rebecca Pothress to her two > daughters, Ann and Rebecca. Ann is referred to > by her married name, as Ann Green; if Rebecca had > been married in 1721, she would no doubt have > been also referred to by her married name. Since > she is named as Poythress still, the conclusion > (it seems to me) must be that she was unmarried. > > "Deed 15 November 1721, from Burrell Green and > Ann, his wife, and Francis Poythress all of Surry > County, conveying a tract of land in Prince > George County to Robert Hunnicut patented by > Rebecca Poythress (being in all 1000 A.) on 29 > April 1692, half of which land is in the > possession of Littleberry Eppes, 300 acres of > said land was given to Rebecca Poythress a > daughter of said Rebecca, and 200 A. to the said Ann Green." > > What do you think? > > Ellen > > > > > ==== PACE Mailing List ==== > Check out the Pace GenConnect Boards where you can post or peruse Pace Bibles, Obits, Bios, Deeds, Wills, Queries, etc. Bookmark this URL: http://boards.ancestry.com > > __________ NOD32 1.1348 (20060102) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > >

POYTHRESS & PACE CONNECTION NOT A POPULAR SUBJECT WITH POYTHRESS RESEARCHERS STEALING ANOTHER MANS WIFE OR DAUGHTER ON GENEALOGICAL PAPER MAY NOT BE A CRIMINAL OFFENSE, BUT THE SUBJECT IS A SERIOUS ONE. With humor I share the info below and hope all study the info carefully, and make the appropriate changes in your tree. At least admit in your notes this Pace - Poythress connection is unproven speculation. Regarding Richard Pace b abt. 1661, d. Jan 6, 1737 Bertie Co., NC and his wife Rebecca being a Poythress. Source of supporting evidence is based on VA deeds showing business transactions between Richard Pace and Francis Poythress. Not sufficient proof in my opinion. Sometime ago, I contacted by e-mail a few Poythress researchers and I received not one answer to their opinion on the matter. Somehow I obtained the info below from what I would consider a serious Poythress Researcher who does not take to kindly to us Pace's stealing another mans wife or daughter on paper. If the Poythress folks do not claim any connection to our Richard Pace, then maybe we best with a bit of grace give up the fight to claim their Rebecca Poythress. I suspect there are many other folks that wished their famous relative was not claimed by everyone who happens to have the same Surname End of my comments. Larry Pace COMMENTS ON FILE FROM JOHN MAYNARD POYTHRESS dated 1997: Subj: Pace-Poythress Date: 97-01-05 23:37:18 EST From: VKRatliff@aol.com I picked up your web site off Cindi's Genealogy Links list. I am John Maynard Poythress. I am one of a half dozen or so Poythress descendents doing work on our line which was complicated by those friendly folks from the Army of the Potomac having wreaked havoc on Prince George County Courthouse during the siege of Petersburg. Anyway, to my point, about every month or so a Pace chaser comes to me asking about a particular reference: Richard Pace- b. ca 1675 Va. Will proved Feb.1738, Bertie County, NC, removed from Virginia to NC ca 1723-1726, m. Rebecca __________. (Rebecca Poythress ?) Apparently the matter of whether the bride in question was or was not a Poythress is a matter hotly contested among the Pace researchers. After enough queries I was finally motivated to go thru my material and compose a document containing all my Pace references to the marriage in question so that I might just attach it to an e-mail reply which would be the best I had for the questioner. I have attached a copy for you. My interest in this is that if I am going to be a magnet for Pace queries anyway I certainly want to do the best by them as many have done for me. Oh yes, and the question is whether or not you all have answered the question was she or was she not a Poythress? Look forward to hearing from you and thanks. John M. Poythress (VKRatliff@aol.com).....and a Mississippi boy ought to recognize that "handle". Pace-Poythress controversy Poythress references to possible marriage of Richard Pace to Rebecca Poythress. Submitted by John Maynard Poythress. *The Poythress Family- A Study of Francis(1),Francis(2), Frances(3), and Francis(4) by William B. Hall of Selma, Alabama. Wm & Mary Quarterly Vol. 14 (1934), pgs. 77-83. *Wm & Mary Quarterly Vol. 27 (1918-1920), pgs. 37-38, Deed by By Burrell Green and his wife Anne(Poythress...sister to Rebecca?)and Francis Poythress...etc. *The Edward Pleasants Valentine Papers. See Wm. & Mary Quarterly, Series 2, Vol. 10 (1930). *Colonial and Revolutionary Lineages of America, Vol. 24, Pub. 1968 The American Historical Society, NY. Page 293 ff. First Poythress line: Captain Francis (1) Poythress, father of Major Francis (2) Poythress. Major Francis (2) Poythress m. Rebecca Coggin (likely Rebecca Wynn Coggin). Children: John Poythress (m. Mary Batte 1690), daughter: Elizabeth, son: William, daughter: Rebecca (the Rebecca in question as to whether she married Richard Pace). *Some Southern Colonial Families, Vol. 2, by David A. Avant, Jr., Pub. by L'Avant Studios, Box 1711, Tallahassee, 1982. Chapter V: Pace Family of England, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, & Georgia. Working chart: "Richard Pace- b. ca 1675 Va., will proved Feb. 1738, Bertie County, NC, removed from Virginia to NC ca 1723-1726, m. Rebecca _______. Mr. Avant is vigorous in his point that Richard Pace's wife Rebecca was not a Poythress. [I have excerpted this material from Mr. Avant's book and the complete text can be found following Mr. Poythress' citations. -Webmaster] *See family group sheets "Pace" and "Poythress" of Phyllis Lindenmeyer, 1902 Pine Lake Drive, W. Columbia, S. C.29169 ...Mrs. Lindenmeyer actively researching Pace/Poythress in 1995, has very comprehensive line of Richard Pace/Rebecca Poythress with ten issue. * Historical Southern Families, John Bennett Boddie, Volume IV, "Poythress": "III Rebecca Poythress. Circumstantial evidence is strong that she married Richard Pace, d. 1738, and removed with him to N. C. (VHG 168). According to family tradition, this Richard Pace m. a Rebecca Poythress. In 1715 Francis Poythress, Sen., sold 100 acres to Peter Grammar on Holly Bushes Branch, on the line of Richard Pace. (P. G. B. 1718-1728, 63). On 11-11=1718, Richard Pace and Francis Poythress sold 400 acres on Old Town Run, adjoining the lands of Rosser and Goodrich.". -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source: Some Southern Colonial Families, Vol. 2, by David A. Avant, Jr., Pub. by L'Avant Studios, Box 1711, Tallahassee, 1982. Chapter V: Pace Family of England, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, & Georgia. pp. 209-212 Note: numbers in parenthesis indicate the number of generations from Richard Pace of Jamestown. Col. Avant lists RICHARD PACE (4) as the great-grandson of Richard of Jamestown. Some in the Pace Society have referred to him as Richard Pace III because he would be the third Richard Pace in that line. Mr. Avant's method is accepted genealogical practice; the Pace Society method is not. The following is quoted verbatim from Col. Avant's book: It seems unthinkable to this writer to leave the records of RICHARD PACE (4) without addressing the riddle of the maiden name of his wife, Rebecca. The Pace Society Bulletin #6 (Dec., 1968) offers the hypothesis that Richard (4) (called Richard III in the article) married REBECCA POYTHRESS, PROBABLY the daughter of FRANCIS POYTHRESS , SR.(d. ca. 1690). The argument considering this possibility is based primarily on the fact that RICHARD (4) paid FRANCIS POYTHRESS, JR. £100 in 1718 for a 300 acre tract of land which had formerly been given to REBECCA POYTHRESS by her mother, an older REBECCA POYTHRESS, plus a 100 acre tract of land belonging to the said RICHARD PACE. The Pace Society Bulletin #44 (June 1978) has another article concerning this by MRS. RUTH R. BROCK KRAMER who states that, "RICHARD PACE married REBECCA about 1699. Their eldest child was born 1700. AUTHORITIES AGREE THAT SHE WAS REBECCA POYTHRESS." MRS. KRAMER also states "IT HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED THAT MARY, WIFE OF RICHARD PACE(3), WAS A DAUGHTER OF JOHN KNOWLES AND HIS WIFE MARY. Who the "AUTHORITIES" were or who "ESTABLISHED" the maiden name of MARY as "KNOWLES' is carefully ignored. MRS. KRAMER continues her undocumented contribution by stating that ELIZABETH PACE, DAUGHTER OF RICHARD AND MARY PACE, MARRIED JOHN HAMLIN, SR. This now becomes thoroughly discredited as there is ample proof that CAPT. JOHN HAMLIN, SR., MARRIED ELIZABETH TAYLOR (NOT PACE) and this writer, as one of their descendants, has unquestioned documentation of this fact. A letter written to MRS. ELEANOR PACE TERRELL 20 MAY 1971 by MISS MAUD KELLY, Attorney, who devoted over forty years accumulating Pace family records, states on p. 5 of the letter that RICHARD PACE (4) DID NOT MARRY A POYTHRESS and, "FURTHERMORE, THE REBECCA POYTHRESS WHOM SOME CLAIM AS HIS WIFE WAS BORN ABOUT 1714, WHEREAS RICHARD AND REBECCA PACE HAD GIRLS BORN IN THE 1690'S AND A SON, RICHARD, BORN 1699-1700, WHICH IS 14 YEARS AT LEAST BEFORE HIS SO CALLED [alleged] MOTHER WAS BORN." The patent for 1,000 acres in Charles City Co., Va., (in that portion which became Prince George in 1702) dated 29 Apr. 1692, granted to (MRS.) REBECCA POYTHRESS, late in the tenure of EDWARD ARLINGTON, deceased, and found to escheat, etc. (NUGENT, 2:378), proves (1) that REBECCA was a widow, (2) that her husband must have died before 1692, and (3) therefore her children, including REBECCA, the younger, were born before 1692. MISS KELLY, therefore, erred in her estimation that REBECCA, THE YOUNGER, was born ca. 1714. However, MISS KELLY in her notarized account of the PACE family, does not enter the melee and has no mention, pro or con, concerning the conjectural and unproved theory that REBECCA (PACE) "THE YOUNGER'S" maiden name was "POYTHRESS." Prince George Co., VA, Wills & Deeds (1713-1728), p. 502: 11 Dec. 1721 - Indenture in which BURRELL GREEN and ANNE, HIS WIFE, and FRANCIS POYTHRESS, of Surry Co., Va., sell to ROBERT HUNNICUT, of Prince George Co., shoemaker, a tract of land in Prince George Co. containing 200 acres...BEING PART OF A PATENT FOR 1`,000 ACRES GRANTED TO [MRS.] REBECCA POYTHRESS, BY ESCHEAT, DATED 29 Apr. 1692 ... THE MOIETY OF ONE-HALF OF THE PATENT [500 Acres] BEING IN POSSESSION OF LITTLEBERRY EPES AND 300 ACRES MORE OF SAID PATENT GIVEN TO REBECCA POYTHRESS, DAUGHTER OF THE SAID REBECCA, THE PANTENTEE, AND THE OTHER 200 ACRES, THE RESIDUE, WAS GIVEN TO THE SAID ANNE [GREEN] AND IS BOUNDED BY THE SAID REBECCA'S 300 ACRES. Witnesses: JOSEPH SIMMONS, ABR. ODUIM, and JAMES JONES. Recorded 12 Dec. 1721. COMMENT: [by Col. Avant] The proponents of the REBECCA "POYTHRESS" theory cite the above record as their evidence. An analysis by this writer seems to indicate the opposite. RICHARD and REBECCA PACE had been married more than 20 years when the above deed was written and had children of adult age. If the 300 acres described had belonged to REBECCA, WIFE OF RICHARD PACE, it would have belonged to RICHARD PACE, IN RIGHT OF HIS WIFE, and he would have been cited as the owner of the 300 acres, NOT REBECCA POYTHRESS. ANNE POYTHRESS is clearly described as wife of BURRELL GREEN but REBECCA is NEVER cited as the wife of RICHARD PACE NOR AS "REBECCA PACE". It is particularly noted that IN THE YEAR 1721 (date of the deed) the 300 acres is still described as belonging to "THE SAID REBECCA [POYTHRESS]," NOT REBECCA, WIFE OF RICHARD PACE WOULD HAVE BEEN THE LEGAL OWNER IF REBECCA POYTHRESS HAD BEEN HIS WIFE. (End of quoted material from Col. Avant) Larry Pace Pace Society of America Membership Chairman pace.membership@pacesociety.org LPace1943@comcast.net

Hi Darlene, thank you for your reply. What are the books you cite? Are they collections of official records? If there exists an official record of the marriage of Richard Pace and Rebecca Poythress, then there is no arguing with that, but I understood that there was no such record. I'm partly making an assumption -- I'm assuming that if there was an official record of the marriage, it would have been mentioned by Bruce Howard or by David Avant, neither of whom accept the Poythress theory. I agree, indeed it can't be doubted, that a Richard Pace removed to NC, but as I understand it there was more than one Richard Pace and we don't know which one went to NC. I don't know enough about this point to comment on it, but I accept that if there was more than one RP, and nothing definite to connect the NC RP with any of the VA RPs, then we don't know whose son the NC RP was and we don't know whether he was a descendant of Richard and Isabella. I agree that Richard's wife's name was Rebecca, I just don't see any evidence that she was Rebecca Poythress, and the fact that she was known as Rebecca Poythress in 1721 clinches it for me. Ellen At 09:37 02/01/2006 -0800, darlene wrote: >Virginia Marriages Vol 2 Part 2 page 25,Under the Poythress family notes >Rebecca Poythress -m- Richard Pace but no date given several records >indicate they married but no dates given > >Va Record Vol 2 Part 2 Page 146 Richard Pace d- 1738 believed to have -m- >Rebecca Poythress d/o Francis Poythress & Rebecca Goggin > >I also found one other reference that mention that Richard Pace removed to >NC > >in the Will of Richard Pace of Bertie NC Feb court 1738 it mention his wife >name as Rebecca so when you put it all togather more or less leads one to >believe Rebecca Poythress was Richard Pace's wife... but I am finding in >1700 records its so hard to prove up things like I like.... ((Grin)) > >Does this Help Darlene > >----- Original Message ----- >From: <genealogy@snuffy.britishlibrary.net> >To: <PACE-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 7:09 AM >Subject: RE: [PACE-L] Poythress > > > > Hi Joyce. Thanks for the reply. > > > > I don't understand how that record could be > > interpreted to mean Richard was married to > > Rebecca Poythress. Sounds to me as if Francis > > Poythress owned a tract of land which included > > the plantations of Richard Pace, Joseph Carter, > > Edward Crosland, Thomas Kirkland, and Michael > > Rosser, Sr., and in 1718 Richard Pace bought the > > title to the land. He lived on the land before > > he bought it, but so apparently did all these > > other chaps, and there seems to be no suggestion > > that they were living there because they were > > related to Francis Poythress by marriage. (Is > > there? I could not find anything to indicate it.) > > > > A fuller version of that entry reads as follows: > > > > "Prince George Wills and Deeds, p. 269, November 11, 1718 > > Frances Poythress, the Elder, of Westover Parish, > > Prince George County, to Richard Pace of the > > same, "for divers good causes and considerations > > him there unto wavering but more especially for > > and in consideration of the value of One hundred > > pounds Sterling to him in hand paid by the said > > Richard Pace" for the land "Whereon the said > > Richard Pace now liveth, the plantation whereon > > Joseph Carter, Edward Crossland, Thomas Kirkland, > > & Michael Rosser Senr. Liveth...being about four > > hundred acres bounded on the lands of the said > > Francis Poythress according to several Lines of > > Marked Trees lately made between the said Francis and the said Richard." > > Wit: Peter Wynne, John (B) Bonner, Thomas Poythress ff. Poythress > > > > This seems to make it clear that the basis for > > the deal was cash paid on the nail. > > > > On the same day we have: > > > > "Nov. 11, 1718 Francis Poythress of Westover > > Parish, Pr. Geo. Co. to Thomas Goodwyn of Surry > > Co., 100 acres in Westover Parish, Pr. Geo. next > > to Peter Grammer, and lands lately purchased of > > Richard Pace by said Francis Poythress > > F. Poythress > > Wit: > > Peter Wynne > > John (JB) Bonner > > Thomas Poythress " > > > > and > > > > "Nov. 11, 1718 Richard Pace and Francis Poythress > > of Pr. Geo. Co. to Thomas Goodwyn of Surry Co. > > for £ 100, 400 acres in Westopher Par. bounded by > > Ol Town Run, path from old Michael Rosser's > > plantation, Edward Goodrich's, Richard Pace's, > > place where John Whittmore lately lived together > > with 200 acres of land at head of Richard Pace's > > dividend, next to Mr. Charles Anderson, dec'd, > > F. Poythress > > Richard Pace > > Wit: > > Peter Wynne > > John (JB) Bonner > > Thomas Poythress " > > > > To me these records just show that Francis > > Poythress, Richard Pace, Thomas Goodwyn and John > > Bonner were all conducting land transactions > > between one another, for money not for love, and > > they all went to court on 11 November 1718 to get it sorted. > > > > The deed of 1721, in which Rebecca is referred to > > as Rebecca Poythress (not Rebecca Pace), seems to > > me to show that Rebecca Poythress was not married > > to Richard Pace, else she would have been > > referred to as Rebecca Pace, not Rebecca > > Poythress. The land in question was apparently > > given by Mrs Rebecca Pothress to her two > > daughters, Ann and Rebecca. Ann is referred to > > by her married name, as Ann Green; if Rebecca had > > been married in 1721, she would no doubt have > > been also referred to by her married name. Since > > she is named as Poythress still, the conclusion > > (it seems to me) must be that she was unmarried. > > > > "Deed 15 November 1721, from Burrell Green and > > Ann, his wife, and Francis Poythress all of Surry > > County, conveying a tract of land in Prince > > George County to Robert Hunnicut patented by > > Rebecca Poythress (being in all 1000 A.) on 29 > > April 1692, half of which land is in the > > possession of Littleberry Eppes, 300 acres of > > said land was given to Rebecca Poythress a > > daughter of said Rebecca, and 200 A. to the said Ann Green." > > > > What do you think? > > > > Ellen > > > > > > > > > > ==== PACE Mailing List ==== > > Check out the Pace GenConnect Boards where you can post or peruse Pace >Bibles, Obits, Bios, Deeds, Wills, Queries, etc. Bookmark this URL: >http://boards.ancestry.com > > > > __________ NOD32 1.1348 (20060102) Information __________ > > > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > >==== PACE Mailing List ==== >Be sure to check the Pace Family Genealogy Forum >at http://genforum.com/pace/ and the Pace >Network at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~pace

I believe this Poythress controversy has been going on for some time. Consider also the following land record between Frances Poythress and Richard Pace which I believe shows a joint ownership between them. While other transactions on this day show a business relationship, some could consider this transaction to show a possible closer relationship... John Pace This Indenture made this eleventh Day of November in the year of our Lord God One thousand seven hundred and eighteen. Between Richard Pace and Francis Poythress of the County of Prince George of the one part and Thomas Goodwynne of the County of Surry of the other part, Witnesseth that the said Richard Pace and Francis Poythress for divers good causes and considerations then thereunto moving, but more especially for and in consideration of the sum of One hundred pounds Sterl: to them in hand paid by the said Thomas Goodwynne at and before the ensealing and delivery of these presents the rect whereof the said Richard Pace and Francis Poythress doth hereby acknowledge they themselves to be therewith fully satisfied contented and paid and thereof doth aquire release and discharge the said Thomas Goodwynne his Ex Hath given granted bargained sold remised, released, and for ever quitted claim, and by these presents the said Richard Pace and Francis Poythress doth for themselves ! their heirs Exrs and Admts forever give grant bargain sell remise release and for ever quit claim unto the said Thomas Goodwynne and to his heirs forever to all that seat tract parcell or dividend of Land situate lying and being in the Pssh of Westopher in the County of Prince George contain by estimation four hundred acres of Land, be it more or less and bounded Viz: beginning at the Path on the Old Town run, where it crosses the same, leading from Old Michael Rossers plantation to Edward Goodriches plantation, and running thence Westwardly as the path leads along the said Rossers corn field fence to the upper end of the same and from thence west nineteen degrees north along a line of marked trees to a corner oak in the head of a bottom thence down that bottom by a line of mark trees to the runn between Richard Paces plantation where he now lives, and the plantation whereon John Whitmore more lately lived, and so down that runn to the Path at the beginning, together with Tw! o hundred acres of Land at the head of the said Richard Paces dividend, beginning at his southern corner tree and running east fifty chaines to a red oake, thence No. One hundred and sixty chains to the line dividing this land from lands which did belong to Mr. Cha. Anderson Decsd: thence West fifty chains, thence So. One hundred and sixty chains to the beginning. To have and to hold the said lands and premises hereby granted unto the said Thomas Goodwynne and to his heirs forever, together with all houses Orchards, Gardens, Woods, underwoods, wayes, Pastures etc. and all other the apputenances thereon or thereunto belonging or in any wise appurtaining, so that neither the said Richard Pace nor Francis Poythress nor their heirs nor any other person or persons whatever claiming or to claim by from or under them or either of them shall not at any time hereafter have any right title interest claims or demand of in or too the sd. Lands and premises, but that the same with every ! part and parcell thereof shall be and forever hereafter enure to the only sole proper use of and behoof of him the said Thomas Goodwynne and to his heirs forever. In Witness whereof we have hereunto set our hands and affixed our seals the day and year first above written. Peter Wynne Richd: Pace (sealed with red wax) John (B) Bonner Ff. Poythress (sealed with red wax) Thomas Poythress Recorded Dec. 9, 1718 ----- Original Message ----- From: <genealogy@snuffy.britishlibrary.net> To: <PACE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:09 AM Subject: RE: [PACE-L] Poythress > Hi Joyce. Thanks for the reply. > > I don't understand how that record could be interpreted to mean Richard > was married to Rebecca Poythress. Sounds to me as if Francis Poythress > owned a tract of land which included the plantations of Richard Pace, > Joseph Carter, Edward Crosland, Thomas Kirkland, and Michael Rosser, Sr., > and in 1718 Richard Pace bought the title to the land. He lived on the > land before he bought it, but so apparently did all these other chaps, and > there seems to be no suggestion that they were living there because they > were related to Francis Poythress by marriage. (Is there? I could not > find anything to indicate it.) > > A fuller version of that entry reads as follows: > > "Prince George Wills and Deeds, p. 269, November 11, 1718 > Frances Poythress, the Elder, of Westover Parish, Prince George County, to > Richard Pace of the same, "for divers good causes and considerations him > there unto wavering but more especially for and in consideration of the > value of One hundred pounds Sterling to him in hand paid by the said > Richard Pace" for the land "Whereon the said Richard Pace now liveth, the > plantation whereon Joseph Carter, Edward Crossland, Thomas Kirkland, & > Michael Rosser Senr. Liveth...being about four hundred acres bounded on > the lands of the said Francis Poythress according to several Lines of > Marked Trees lately made between the said Francis and the said Richard." > Wit: Peter Wynne, John (B) Bonner, Thomas Poythress ff. Poythress > > This seems to make it clear that the basis for the deal was cash paid on > the nail. > > On the same day we have: > > "Nov. 11, 1718 Francis Poythress of Westover Parish, Pr. Geo. Co. to > Thomas Goodwyn of Surry Co., 100 acres in Westover Parish, Pr. Geo. next > to Peter Grammer, and lands lately purchased of Richard Pace by said > Francis Poythress > F. Poythress > Wit: > Peter Wynne > John (JB) Bonner > Thomas Poythress " > > and > > "Nov. 11, 1718 Richard Pace and Francis Poythress of Pr. Geo. Co. to > Thomas Goodwyn of Surry Co. for £ 100, 400 acres in Westopher Par. bounded > by Ol Town Run, path from old Michael Rosser's plantation, Edward > Goodrich's, Richard Pace's, place where John Whittmore lately lived > together with 200 acres of land at head of Richard Pace's dividend, next > to Mr. Charles Anderson, dec'd, > F. Poythress > Richard Pace > Wit: > Peter Wynne > John (JB) Bonner > Thomas Poythress " > > To me these records just show that Francis Poythress, Richard Pace, Thomas > Goodwyn and John Bonner were all conducting land transactions between one > another, for money not for love, and they all went to court on 11 November > 1718 to get it sorted. > > The deed of 1721, in which Rebecca is referred to as Rebecca Poythress > (not Rebecca Pace), seems to me to show that Rebecca Poythress was not > married to Richard Pace, else she would have been referred to as Rebecca > Pace, not Rebecca Poythress. The land in question was apparently given by > Mrs Rebecca Pothress to her two daughters, Ann and Rebecca. Ann is > referred to by her married name, as Ann Green; if Rebecca had been married > in 1721, she would no doubt have been also referred to by her married > name. Since she is named as Poythress still, the conclusion (it seems to > me) must be that she was unmarried. > > "Deed 15 November 1721, from Burrell Green and Ann, his wife, and Francis > Poythress all of Surry County, conveying a tract of land in Prince George > County to Robert Hunnicut patented by Rebecca Poythress (being in all 1000 > A.) on 29 April 1692, half of which land is in the possession of > Littleberry Eppes, 300 acres of said land was given to Rebecca Poythress a > daughter of said Rebecca, and 200 A. to the said Ann Green." > > What do you think? > > Ellen > > > > > ==== PACE Mailing List ==== > Check out the Pace GenConnect Boards where you can post or peruse Pace > Bibles, Obits, Bios, Deeds, Wills, Queries, etc. Bookmark this URL: > http://boards.ancestry.com >

Thanks for quoting the transaction in full. It's an interesting record, isn't it? The language is a little unusual: "...the said Richard Pace and Francis Poythress doth hereby acknowledge they themselves to be therewith fully satisfied contented and paid and thereof doth aquire release and discharge the said Thomas Goodwynne..." I am just guessing, but to me it sounds as if perhaps there was a mortgage on the land, held jointly by Richard Pace and Francis Poythress, and the £400 discharges the mortgage. It doesn't sound like a straightforward sale, does it? Ellen At 13:04 02/01/2006 -0500, Mr John Pace wrote: >I believe this Poythress controversy has been >going on for some time. Consider also the >following land record between Frances Poythress >and Richard Pace which I believe shows a joint >ownership between them. While other transactions >on this day show a business relationship, some >could consider this transaction to show a possible closer relationship... >John Pace > > >This Indenture made this eleventh Day of >November in the year of our Lord God One >thousand seven hundred and eighteen. Between >Richard Pace and Francis Poythress of the County >of Prince George of the one part and Thomas >Goodwynne of the County of Surry of the other >part, Witnesseth that the said Richard Pace and >Francis Poythress for divers good causes and >considerations then thereunto moving, but more >especially for and in consideration of the sum >of One hundred pounds Sterl: to them in hand >paid by the said Thomas Goodwynne at and before >the ensealing and delivery of these presents the >rect whereof the said Richard Pace and Francis >Poythress doth hereby acknowledge they >themselves to be therewith fully satisfied >contented and paid and thereof doth aquire >release and discharge the said Thomas Goodwynne >his Ex Hath given granted bargained sold >remised, released, and for ever quitted claim, >and by these presents the said Richard Pace and >Francis Poythress doth for themselves ! their >heirs Exrs and Admts forever give grant bargain >sell remise release and for ever quit claim > >unto the said Thomas Goodwynne and to his heirs >forever to all that seat tract parcell or >dividend of Land situate lying and being in the >Pssh of Westopher in the County of Prince George >contain by estimation four hundred acres of >Land, be it more or less and bounded Viz: >beginning at the Path on the Old Town run, where >it crosses the same, leading from Old Michael >Rossers plantation to Edward Goodriches >plantation, and running thence Westwardly as the >path leads along the said Rossers corn field >fence to the upper end of the same and from >thence west nineteen degrees north along a line >of marked trees to a corner oak in the head of a >bottom thence down that bottom by a line of mark >trees to the runn between Richard Paces >plantation where he now lives, and the >plantation whereon John Whitmore more lately >lived, and so down that runn to the Path at the >beginning, together with Tw! o hundred acres of >Land at the head of the said Richard Paces >dividend, beginning at his southern corner tree >and running east fifty chaines to a red oake, >thence No. One hundred and sixty chains to the line dividing > >this land from lands which did belong to Mr. >Cha. Anderson Decsd: thence West fifty chains, >thence So. One hundred and sixty chains to the beginning. > >To have and to hold the said lands and premises >hereby granted unto the said Thomas Goodwynne >and to his heirs forever, together with all >houses Orchards, Gardens, Woods, underwoods, >wayes, Pastures etc. and all other the >apputenances thereon or thereunto belonging or >in any wise appurtaining, so that neither the >said Richard Pace nor Francis Poythress nor >their heirs nor any other person or persons >whatever claiming or to claim by from or under >them or either of them shall not at any time >hereafter have any right title interest claims >or demand of in or too the sd. Lands and >premises, but that the same with every ! part >and parcell thereof shall be and forever >hereafter enure to the only sole proper use of >and behoof of him the said Thomas Goodwynne and >to his heirs forever. In Witness whereof we have >hereunto set our hands and affixed our seals the >day and year first above written. > >Peter Wynne Richd: Pace (sealed with red wax) > >John (B) Bonner Ff. Poythress (sealed with red wax) > >Thomas Poythress > >Recorded Dec. 9, 1718 > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- From: <genealogy@snuffy.britishlibrary.net> >To: <PACE-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:09 AM >Subject: RE: [PACE-L] Poythress > > >>Hi Joyce. Thanks for the reply. >> >>I don't understand how that record could be >>interpreted to mean Richard was married to >>Rebecca Poythress. Sounds to me as if Francis >>Poythress owned a tract of land which included >>the plantations of Richard Pace, Joseph Carter, >>Edward Crosland, Thomas Kirkland, and Michael >>Rosser, Sr., and in 1718 Richard Pace bought >>the title to the land. He lived on the land >>before he bought it, but so apparently did all >>these other chaps, and there seems to be no >>suggestion that they were living there because >>they were related to Francis Poythress by >>marriage. (Is there? I could not find anything to indicate it.) >> >>A fuller version of that entry reads as follows: >> >>"Prince George Wills and Deeds, p. 269, November 11, 1718 >>Frances Poythress, the Elder, of Westover >>Parish, Prince George County, to Richard Pace >>of the same, "for divers good causes and >>considerations him there unto wavering but more >>especially for and in consideration of the >>value of One hundred pounds Sterling to him in >>hand paid by the said Richard Pace" for the >>land "Whereon the said Richard Pace now liveth, >>the plantation whereon Joseph Carter, Edward >>Crossland, Thomas Kirkland, & Michael Rosser >>Senr. Liveth...being about four hundred acres >>bounded on the lands of the said Francis >>Poythress according to several Lines of Marked >>Trees lately made between the said Francis and the said Richard." >>Wit: Peter Wynne, John (B) Bonner, Thomas Poythress ff. Poythress >> >>This seems to make it clear that the basis for >>the deal was cash paid on the nail. >> >>On the same day we have: >> >>"Nov. 11, 1718 Francis Poythress of Westover >>Parish, Pr. Geo. Co. to Thomas Goodwyn of Surry >>Co., 100 acres in Westover Parish, Pr. Geo. >>next to Peter Grammer, and lands lately >>purchased of Richard Pace by said Francis Poythress >>F. Poythress >>Wit: >>Peter Wynne >>John (JB) Bonner >>Thomas Poythress " >> >>and >> >>"Nov. 11, 1718 Richard Pace and Francis >>Poythress of Pr. Geo. Co. to Thomas Goodwyn of >>Surry Co. for £ 100, 400 acres in Westopher >>Par. bounded by Ol Town Run, path from old >>Michael Rosser's plantation, Edward Goodrich's, >>Richard Pace's, place where John Whittmore >>lately lived together with 200 acres of land at >>head of Richard Pace's dividend, next to Mr. Charles Anderson, dec'd, >>F. Poythress >>Richard Pace >>Wit: >>Peter Wynne >>John (JB) Bonner >>Thomas Poythress " >> >>To me these records just show that Francis >>Poythress, Richard Pace, Thomas Goodwyn and >>John Bonner were all conducting land >>transactions between one another, for money not >>for love, and they all went to court on 11 November 1718 to get it sorted. >> >>The deed of 1721, in which Rebecca is referred >>to as Rebecca Poythress (not Rebecca Pace), >>seems to me to show that Rebecca Poythress was >>not married to Richard Pace, else she would >>have been referred to as Rebecca Pace, not >>Rebecca Poythress. The land in question was >>apparently given by Mrs Rebecca Pothress to her >>two daughters, Ann and Rebecca. Ann is >>referred to by her married name, as Ann Green; >>if Rebecca had been married in 1721, she would >>no doubt have been also referred to by her >>married name. Since she is named as Poythress >>still, the conclusion (it seems to me) must be that she was unmarried. >> >>"Deed 15 November 1721, from Burrell Green and >>Ann, his wife, and Francis Poythress all of >>Surry County, conveying a tract of land in >>Prince George County to Robert Hunnicut >>patented by Rebecca Poythress (being in all >>1000 A.) on 29 April 1692, half of which land >>is in the possession of Littleberry Eppes, 300 >>acres of said land was given to Rebecca >>Poythress a daughter of said Rebecca, and 200 A. to the said Ann Green." >> >>What do you think? >> >>Ellen >> >> >> >> >>==== PACE Mailing List ==== >>Check out the Pace GenConnect Boards where you >>can post or peruse Pace Bibles, Obits, Bios, >>Deeds, Wills, Queries, etc. Bookmark this URL: http://boards.ancestry.com > > >==== PACE Mailing List ==== >Check out the Pace GenConnect Boards where you >can post or peruse Pace Bibles, Obits, Bios, >Deeds, Wills, Queries, etc. Bookmark this URL: http://boards.ancestry.com >