New 37 marker results are in for kit 8179, Antony Pace, London. The last 12 markers match 12/12 with the other three 37 marker submissions that we have in group 3-two in group 3a and one in 3b, but the last 12 markers match for all three. The closest matches are kits 6366 and 7833, who happen to trace to William Pace/Ruth Lambert, but this specific line is not necessarily significant, as we do not have 37 marker tests for other lines in group 3a. This greatly increases the chances of a common ancestor, and further cements the probability of group 3 having a London area origin, as Antony's grandfather was a barge builder on the Thames in London. Examining the John of Middlesex 37 markers, we find beaucoup differences, further separating these two lines and I believe tending to support my hypothesis that the Pace surname does not have a single origin in England. Take a look at the chart at http://www.pacesociety.org/DNA/results.htm. I have moved Antony's record to the 3a group to show the comparison better, even though he is not a descendent of the North Carolina Paces and therefore technically is not in this group. As usual, the differing alleles are marked in green. I have not found a calculation for 34/37 on FTDNA as to the probable distance to MRCA (Most Recent Common Ancestor) but from the graphs, I think it approaches 50% or better somewhere about 12 generations. Maybe others who have been studying DNA results can comment. Roy Johnson DNA coordinator

Roy and all others interested, What exciting news!!!! especially for those of us in group 3a, and probably those in group 3b as well as the third panel for kit #8179 matches the third panel for both groups 3a and 3b participants that have upgraded. For emphasis, we have perfect matches in the third panel for group 3a, group 3b, and London kit #8179. FTDNA's webpages indicate the 34/37 match between Group 3a and London kit #8179 is "related" when you share the same surname and the shared ancestry is probably within the time period of surnames in Europe. For FTDNA's official blurb, see http://www.familytreedna.com/GDRules_37.html The third panel of markers tested by FTDNA contains the most volatile markers, including the 3 fastest mutating markers currently tested by FTDNA - CDYa, CDYb, and DYS 576. Often it is the third panel of markers that cause possible "relatedness" to fall apart, but in the Pace DNA study, these markers for the tested participants from the William Pace/Ruth Lambert line of Group 3a, kit #7811 of Group 3b, and kit #8179 of London have the same results! The difference in the London kit #8179 at Pace marker #2 (DYS 390) occurs on one of the faster moving markers as well. (FTDNA says they are going to update their outdated reporting of fast and slow markers in the first panel but haven't yet.) The DNA results for kit #8179 does put Antony in DNA Group 3a - although the lineages are different. So Roy's placement of him there is where he should be. Calculations for the number of generations to the Most Recent Common Ancestor (MRCA) are not necessarily very accurate. I wouldn't worry too much about the probablilities of how many generations back the common ancestor might be. They are just probabilities and can be way off from the actual number of generations. It is probably safe to assume the shared ancestor was before the ancestor of the Paces of Group 3a came to America - whether that was Richard Pace of Jamestown or not. It is a very interesting coincidence that Richard Pace of Jamestown and Wapping was from directly across the Thames River from Antony's ancestor George Pace of Rotherhithe and that Richard Pace was a carpenter and George Pace a bargebuilder - although MANY years separate the two of them. Also, with kit #8179 Antony's results at Pace markers #6 (DYS 385b) and #21 (DYS 449) matching group 3a, the group 3a results appear to be ancestral results at those markers with group 3b having the changes from the ancestral DNA values at those locations. More testing of NC Pace lines with the paperwork going back to the early Paces (not just those with brick walls!) is necessary to determine when the probable changes in the DNA for group 3b occurred and with which Pace the DNA changes happened, assuming that groups 3b and 3a are indeed closely related. This would apparently be very helpful for all those in Group 3b especially. Some initial thoughts. Rebecca Roy Johnson <royj@webster.edu> wrote: New 37 marker results are in for kit 8179, Antony Pace, London. The last 12 markers match 12/12 with the other three 37 marker submissions that we have in group 3-two in group 3a and one in 3b, but the last 12 markers match for all three. The closest matches are kits 6366 and 7833, who happen to trace to William Pace/Ruth Lambert, but this specific line is not necessarily significant, as we do not have 37 marker tests for other lines in group 3a. This greatly increases the chances of a common ancestor, and further cements the probability of group 3 having a London area origin, as Antony's grandfather was a barge builder on the Thames in London. Examining the John of Middlesex 37 markers, we find beaucoup differences, further separating these two lines and I believe tending to support my hypothesis that the Pace surname does not have a single origin in England. Take a look at the chart at http://www.pacesociety.org/DNA/results.htm. I have moved Antony's record to the 3a group to show the comparison better, even though he is not a descendent of the North Carolina Paces and therefore technically is not in this group. As usual, the differing alleles are marked in green. I have not found a calculation for 34/37 on FTDNA as to the probable distance to MRCA (Most Recent Common Ancestor) but from the graphs, I think it approaches 50% or better somewhere about 12 generations. Maybe others who have been studying DNA results can comment. Roy Johnson DNA coordinator ==== PACE Mailing List ==== Help this list grow - tell other Pace researchers about it. Also, the Pace Society of America home page is located at: http://www.pacesociety.org - check it out!

Does this mean that I am famous? Would anyone like my autograph? :-) I think actually I need time to absorb the results but it does look as though I am from a long line of Londoners. Maybe that's why I feel so at home here. Ant ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Johnson" <royj@webster.edu> To: <PACE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 2:37 AM Subject: [PACE-L] New results, Antony Pace, London > New 37 marker results are in for kit 8179, Antony Pace, London. The last > 12 > markers match 12/12 with the other three 37 marker submissions that we > have > in group 3-two in group 3a and one in 3b, but the last 12 markers match > for > all three. > > > > The closest matches are kits 6366 and 7833, who happen to trace to William > Pace/Ruth Lambert, but this specific line is not necessarily significant, > as > we do not have 37 marker tests for other lines in group 3a. > > > > This greatly increases the chances of a common ancestor, and further > cements > the probability of group 3 having a London area origin, as Antony's > grandfather was a barge builder on the Thames in London. Examining the > John > of Middlesex 37 markers, we find beaucoup differences, further separating > these two lines and I believe tending to support my hypothesis that the > Pace > surname does not have a single origin in England. > > > > Take a look at the chart at http://www.pacesociety.org/DNA/results.htm. I > have moved Antony's record to the 3a group to show the comparison better, > even though he is not a descendent of the North Carolina Paces and > therefore > technically is not in this group. As usual, the differing alleles are > marked > in green. > > > > I have not found a calculation for 34/37 on FTDNA as to the probable > distance to MRCA (Most Recent Common Ancestor) but from the graphs, I > think > it approaches 50% or better somewhere about 12 generations. Maybe others > who have been studying DNA results can comment. > > > > Roy Johnson > > DNA coordinator > > > > > > > > ==== PACE Mailing List ==== > Help this list grow - tell other Pace researchers about it. > Also, the Pace Society of America home page is located at: > http://www.pacesociety.org - check it out! >