John: As a descendant of William Pace and Sicely Walker, I had accepted Bruce Howard's argument that William was a son of the George Pace b. 1711 who m. Patience Howell (although Bruce did not know Patience's surname). However the DNA test results from descendants of William, including myself, seem to prove that William could not have been a son of this George. Bruce maintains that the George who you mentioned never married or had children. Also he supposedly died decades before William was born. Nothing is apparently known about him. Actually I don't think there is any evidence to suggest that William's father was named George, so his parentage is a complete mystery to me. But the DNA results indicate that he was closely related to Richard Pace of Jamestown, and probably was a direct descendant. Gordon W. Pace -----Original Message----- >From: John <[email protected]> >Sent: Dec 5, 2008 1:23 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [PACE] William Pace-Sicely Walker descendents > >Roy > >This is not my line but William and Sicely Walker Pace were originally >thought to be a descendents of John and Elizabeth Lowe? Pace line. This >lineage was based on Bruce Howard's theories. [refer to John Pace DNA chart >#1]. DNA evidence, in my opinion has disproven this. The PSA bulletins give >a different lineage for William & Siceley Walker Pace which suggests William >was descended from John's brother, George Pace who remained in Charles City/ >Prince George Co, VA and never came to NC as far as anyone knows. This >lineage is reflected in John Pace chart #2 and it is the most likely line of >descent for William. Although William's father is unproven, just as the >father of my Jesse Pace remains unproven, it is my opinion that DNA evidence >places these families as descendents of George Pace of Charles City Co, VA. >It is also my opinion that the the 2 marker mutation between Group 3a and >Group 3b occurred at this George Pace, brother to John, James, Richard & >Thomas in the Aycock letter. Discussions welcome. > >Another lineage theory of Bruce Howard's disproven by DNA is the line of >George Pace who migrated to Clay co KY about 1807. > >John Pace > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Roy Johnson" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 9:57 AM >Subject: Re: [PACE] William Pace-Sicely Walker descendents > > >Maybe I'm the one missing something, but here's what I saw: > >In the chart, nearly all of the 3b people are designated as JP-SB, or >lineage to John + Sarah ("John the tory"); the others are unsure. But none >of the William-Sicely three even speculates a connection with John, although >their DNA matches with the JP-SB people. > >The "interesting study" is trying to figure out what this means. Perhaps >they are descended from a brother or relative of John, or perhaps if records >could be found, all of the speculation is wrong and they are descended from >John. > >The last submitter included some good speculation with records cited. You >can see what he sent by clicking on his link in the chart, which will take >you to the donors page, and at the bottom of his lineage is a link to his >comments. > >All I am saying is that we have a new puzzle, a DNA match that does not >corroborate with the documentary records although it does not contradict >those records. > >Is there something wrong with this reasoning? I am aware that you have >studied DNA more deeply than I have. My contribution to Pace genealogy has >not been in the research field, but rather in bringing people together, >first through the Pace Network and now through the DNA study. > >I don't know whether you are aware of it or not, but Gordon of Canada first >found his Pace relatives in England through the Pace Network, which enabled >him to do the research back to George Pace in Shropshire, and then in the >DNA, his match with John of M descendents gave us the best candidate for >John's origin (George's brother John b. 1665). It makes me happy to perform >this kind of service. I like it better than original research. > >I don't know why Jack Pace, in his article in the latest bulletin, does not >at least give mention to John b. 1665 Shropshire as the best candidate for >John of M. > >Roy > > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf >Of Rebecca Christensen >Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:13 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [PACE] William Pace-Sicely Walker descendents > >Roy, >I'm not sure why this is "emerging as an interesting study" based on the >new results for the William Pace/Sicely Walker line. (What am I missing?) >The new participant #134499, through William and Sicely's son Gideon only >tested 12 markers and they are a perfect match not only to the previous >participant through William and Sicely's son William Richard (#10683), but >also to the modal (most common) result for all of Group 3b. In this case >12 markers really isn't enough to tell us anything new about this branch of >the family. The other participant from this line (#16218) through William >and Sicely's son Alsey does have a DNA difference at DYS 390 (marker 2), but >this appears to have been a more "recent" change - somewhere between Alsey >Pace and the participant. We do now have 12 marker DNA results for three >lines of descent from William Pace and Sicely Walker - through Alsey, >William Richard, and Gideon. Between the three sets of > results, the results show that the father William Pace's 25 marker DNA >results are a perfect match to the Group 3b modal - with the 1st 12 matching >DNA marker results of the William Richard and Gideon lines and markers 13-25 >matching for the Alsey and William Richard lines. These three results place >this line solidly in Group 3b with the modal for these three results a >perfect match overall at 25 markers to the Group 3b modal. > >Rebecca Christensen > > >--- On Thu, 12/4/08, Roy Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: >From: Roy Johnson <[email protected]> >Subject: [PACE] William Pace-Sicely Walker descendents >To: [email protected] >Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 9:00 PMMa > >This small group is emerging as a very interesting study. There are three >donors now tracing different lineages back to William and Sicely. DNA >evidence relates them to the John Pace-Sarah ?Burgh? (John the Tory) group, >but their submitted lineages show no relationship to that group. > >The problem is that there is no documentation as to William's father, and >all before that seems to be speculation and circumstantial evidence. > >I have grouped these three at the bottom of the Group 3b chart so that they >will be together, and I have grouped them on the Donors page, where there is >also a link to some speculation by Charles R. Pace as to William's possible >parentage-look for the link. > >Rebecca might have some commentary on this line???? > >http://www.pacesociety.org/DNA/Group3.htm and scroll to the bottom of the >chart. Click the kit numbers if you want to see the lineages. > >Roy Johnson > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in >the subject and the body of the message > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1829 - Release Date: 12/4/2008 >2:59 PM > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in >the subject and the body of the message > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com
For PACE #12269 (ysearch DWFZK) & #137170 (ysearch R53KQ) the brick wall has a huge crack! For nearly 5 years I've agonized over my husband Jerry's DNA failure to match *any* PACES. Though there werre neighboring PACES in Maury & Perry & Humphreys counties, TN, the DNA evidence said they were not related. Jerry's ancestor Joachim L. Pace had 2 wives & Jerry (#12269) was the product of the 1st. But I wondered: What about wife #2's kids? Finally after a few years of conjonlling, a 86 yr old "half 1st cousin 2 times removed" gave that precious sample, and BINGO! Cuz #137170 is 25//24 for seven PACES, including John W. PACE. And he is 25/23 for nine others, including Gordon William PACE. Although it looks like my husband is a non-genetic PACE, I will continue to search for his adoptive PACES' MRCA His earliest know ancestor was Thomas PACE (b ca1792 prob NC - d ca1868 Williamson Co, TN). He first appears in 1820 Maury Co, TN as "Thomas PASE" with 3 sons & 1 dau under 10, 1 dau 10-16 & a wife. If this is him, it brings in question the ca 1816 marriage bond to Catherine DONAHOO (Henry WEBSTER, Bondsman). She may have been a 2nd wife, or maybe he wasn't "PASE" Jackie Ashley PACE The Woodlands, TX http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=ashley42 http://www.familytreedna.com/public/ashley http://www.familytreedna.com/public/RICHEY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon W. Pace" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [PACE] William Pace-Sicely Walker descendents > John: > > As a descendant of William Pace and Sicely Walker, I had accepted Bruce > Howard's argument that William was a son of the George Pace b. 1711 who m. > Patience Howell (although Bruce did not know Patience's surname). However > the DNA test results from descendants of William, including myself, seem > to prove that William could not have been a son of this George. Bruce > maintains that the George who you mentioned never married or had children. > Also he supposedly died decades before William was born. Nothing is > apparently known about him. Actually I don't think there is any evidence > to suggest that William's father was named George, so his parentage is a > complete mystery to me. But the DNA results indicate that he was closely > related to Richard Pace of Jamestown, and probably was a direct > descendant. > Gordon W. Pace > > -----Original Message----- >>From: John <[email protected]> >>Sent: Dec 5, 2008 1:23 PM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: Re: [PACE] William Pace-Sicely Walker descendents >> >>Roy >> >>This is not my line but William and Sicely Walker Pace were originally >>thought to be a descendents of John and Elizabeth Lowe? Pace line. This >>lineage was based on Bruce Howard's theories. [refer to John Pace DNA >>chart >>#1]. DNA evidence, in my opinion has disproven this. The PSA bulletins >>give >>a different lineage for William & Siceley Walker Pace which suggests >>William >>was descended from John's brother, George Pace who remained in Charles >>City/ >>Prince George Co, VA and never came to NC as far as anyone knows. This >>lineage is reflected in John Pace chart #2 and it is the most likely line >>of >>descent for William. Although William's father is unproven, just as the >>father of my Jesse Pace remains unproven, it is my opinion that DNA >>evidence >>places these families as descendents of George Pace of Charles City Co, >>VA. >>It is also my opinion that the the 2 marker mutation between Group 3a and >>Group 3b occurred at this George Pace, brother to John, James, Richard & >>Thomas in the Aycock letter. Discussions welcome. >> >>Another lineage theory of Bruce Howard's disproven by DNA is the line of >>George Pace who migrated to Clay co KY about 1807. >> >>John Pace >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Roy Johnson" <[email protected]> >>To: <[email protected]> >>Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 9:57 AM >>Subject: Re: [PACE] William Pace-Sicely Walker descendents >> >> >>Maybe I'm the one missing something, but here's what I saw: >> >>In the chart, nearly all of the 3b people are designated as JP-SB, or >>lineage to John + Sarah ("John the tory"); the others are unsure. But none >>of the William-Sicely three even speculates a connection with John, >>although >>their DNA matches with the JP-SB people. >> >>The "interesting study" is trying to figure out what this means. Perhaps >>they are descended from a brother or relative of John, or perhaps if >>records >>could be found, all of the speculation is wrong and they are descended >>from >>John. >> >>The last submitter included some good speculation with records cited. You >>can see what he sent by clicking on his link in the chart, which will take >>you to the donors page, and at the bottom of his lineage is a link to his >>comments. >> >>All I am saying is that we have a new puzzle, a DNA match that does not >>corroborate with the documentary records although it does not contradict >>those records. >> >>Is there something wrong with this reasoning? I am aware that you have >>studied DNA more deeply than I have. My contribution to Pace genealogy has >>not been in the research field, but rather in bringing people together, >>first through the Pace Network and now through the DNA study. >> >>I don't know whether you are aware of it or not, but Gordon of Canada >>first >>found his Pace relatives in England through the Pace Network, which >>enabled >>him to do the research back to George Pace in Shropshire, and then in the >>DNA, his match with John of M descendents gave us the best candidate for >>John's origin (George's brother John b. 1665). It makes me happy to >>perform >>this kind of service. I like it better than original research. >> >>I don't know why Jack Pace, in his article in the latest bulletin, does >>not >>at least give mention to John b. 1665 Shropshire as the best candidate for >>John of M. >> >>Roy >> >> >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On >>Behalf >>Of Rebecca Christensen >>Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:13 PM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: Re: [PACE] William Pace-Sicely Walker descendents >> >>Roy, >>I'm not sure why this is "emerging as an interesting study" based on the >>new results for the William Pace/Sicely Walker line. (What am I missing?) >>The new participant #134499, through William and Sicely's son Gideon only >>tested 12 markers and they are a perfect match not only to the previous >>participant through William and Sicely's son William Richard (#10683), but >>also to the modal (most common) result for all of Group 3b. In this case >>12 markers really isn't enough to tell us anything new about this branch >>of >>the family. The other participant from this line (#16218) through William >>and Sicely's son Alsey does have a DNA difference at DYS 390 (marker 2), >>but >>this appears to have been a more "recent" change - somewhere between Alsey >>Pace and the participant. We do now have 12 marker DNA results for three >>lines of descent from William Pace and Sicely Walker - through Alsey, >>William Richard, and Gideon. Between the three sets of >> results, the results show that the father William Pace's 25 marker DNA >>results are a perfect match to the Group 3b modal - with the 1st 12 >>matching >>DNA marker results of the William Richard and Gideon lines and markers >>13-25 >>matching for the Alsey and William Richard lines. These three results >>place >>this line solidly in Group 3b with the modal for these three results a >>perfect match overall at 25 markers to the Group 3b modal. >> >>Rebecca Christensen >> >> >>--- On Thu, 12/4/08, Roy Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: >>From: Roy Johnson <[email protected]> >>Subject: [PACE] William Pace-Sicely Walker descendents >>To: [email protected] >>Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 9:00 PMMa >> >>This small group is emerging as a very interesting study. There are three >>donors now tracing different lineages back to William and Sicely. DNA >>evidence relates them to the John Pace-Sarah ?Burgh? (John the Tory) >>group, >>but their submitted lineages show no relationship to that group. >> >>The problem is that there is no documentation as to William's father, and >>all before that seems to be speculation and circumstantial evidence. >> >>I have grouped these three at the bottom of the Group 3b chart so that >>they >>will be together, and I have grouped them on the Donors page, where there >>is >>also a link to some speculation by Charles R. Pace as to William's >>possible >>parentage-look for the link. >> >>Rebecca might have some commentary on this line???? >> >>http://www.pacesociety.org/DNA/Group3.htm and scroll to the bottom of the >>chart. Click the kit numbers if you want to see the lineages. >> >>Roy Johnson >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >>in >>the subject and the body of the message >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1829 - Release Date: 12/4/2008 >>2:59 PM >> >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >>in >>the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >>in the subject and the body of the message > > > ________________________________________ > PeoplePC Online > A better way to Internet > http://www.peoplepc.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 5.8 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 27501 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message