The black Paces that I knew growing up in Clarke Co, AL, did not appear to be of mixed race, but undoubtedly there are a number of black Paces out there who would be a yDNA match for our white Pace lines. I only became aware of a famous case from my home county a couple of years ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pace_v._Alabama http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~novkov/research/pacechap.htm#_edn4 The link will take you to a rather scholarly study of a court case that went all the way to the US Supreme Court. "Tony Pace . . . . and his partner Mary Ann Cox were convicted in 1881 of engaging in adultery or fornication, a felony because she was white and he was (in the statute’s language) a Negro or a descendant of a Negro. . . . At the time of their arrest, they were living in Clarke County, in the south central region of Alabama where many former slaves had remained after emancipation. . . ." My hypothesis is that Tony Pace was a possible descendent of Dempsey Pace and, hence, a cousin. I had a lead on a possible descendent of the Tony Pace in the court case and I attempted to contact him in order to invite him to join the Pace Society and submit a DNA sample, but I got no response to my emails, possibly because the addresses I had were no longer valid. I personally think that it would be great if we had some DNA samples from black Paces and I would welcome them into the Society. Joe Anderson > From: [email protected]> To: [email protected]; [email protected]> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 14:42:19 -0500> Subject: Re: [PACE] tri-racial Paces > << Many slaves took the last name of their owners>> > Yes, and thought some might not like it, some of those slaves were the> children of the owners. Thus, some of them may carry male Pace genes. I> would be much in favor of soliciting DNA from black Paces if we can find any> who would donate. _________________________________________________________________ Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008

I agree with Joe . I would love to hear from any black Paces from Alabama( or elsewhere) who could submit to a DNA test. Is it possible that since in 1850 Cherokees were listed as black, that some black Paces today could believe they are black because of being listed that way on earlier census, rather than Cherokee? Are there any Paces in the Society with Cherokee ancestry who have done the DNA test? Is there DNA different from others? Anyone with Pace ancestry should be welcomed to the Society .They may possibly solve many questions. If my Canadian friend is a subscriber to this list. I would love to hear from her and whether she ever did get a relative to do the test. Do you know,Gordon in Canada? She brought pictures of her relatives in the USA who were black, but she looks as white as anyone I know. >From some notes from her. William Chastain Captain went to Canada between 1837-1842 With him was a Lucy Ann White b, June 16, 1827 in Charlottesville or Staunton,Va >From more notes from her there seems to be a connection to William Moment Pace b. 1806 and Dicy King The approx. location of the land that the Captain Children inherited is 130 acres at Cuffey's Creek In her notes are also the following Virginia family names, Meriwether Anderson Lewis Henry Pace(editor of the" Gazette of the United States"- broke the news on Oct. 13, 1802 that Thomas Jefferson had fathered a child by a slave( Slly Hemmings) Henry Pace's partner was found floating in the river after the story broke. Ann Meriwether Johnson( from her Captain line) had a second marriage to John Cosby. This is of particular interest to me as the lady who lived with my Pace family was Fannie Cosby( wife of Edw.Cosby) Lois Carey * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Please note: My new email address is [email protected] Please remove [email protected] from your address books and files so that we can stay in touch! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janders 45" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [PACE] tri-racial Paces The black Paces that I knew growing up in Clarke Co, AL, did not appear to be of mixed race, but undoubtedly there are a number of black Paces out there who would be a yDNA match for our white Pace lines. I only became aware of a famous case from my home county a couple of years ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pace_v._Alabama http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~novkov/research/pacechap.htm#_edn4 The link will take you to a rather scholarly study of a court case that went all the way to the US Supreme Court. "Tony Pace . . . . and his partner Mary Ann Cox were convicted in 1881 of engaging in adultery or fornication, a felony because she was white and he was (in the statute’s language) a Negro or a descendant of a Negro. . . . At the time of their arrest, they were living in Clarke County, in the south central region of Alabama where many former slaves had remained after emancipation. . . ." My hypothesis is that Tony Pace was a possible descendent of Dempsey Pace and, hence, a cousin. I had a lead on a possible descendent of the Tony Pace in the court case and I attempted to contact him in order to invite him to join the Pace Society and submit a DNA sample, but I got no response to my emails, possibly because the addresses I had were no longer valid. I personally think that it would be great if we had some DNA samples from black Paces and I would welcome them into the Society. Joe Anderson > From: [email protected]> To: [email protected]; [email protected]> Date: > Sun, 19 Oct 2008 14:42:19 -0500> Subject: Re: [PACE] tri-racial Paces > << Many slaves took the last name of their owners>> > Yes, and thought some might not like it, some of those slaves were the> > children of the owners. Thus, some of them may carry male Pace genes. I> > would be much in favor of soliciting DNA from black Paces if we can find > any> who would donate. _________________________________________________________________ Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I've been interested for some time in learning how the African American PACE lines tie in. Orlando Pace, for example has been one of the best offensive linemen in the NFL....and as a Michigan fan, it pains me to say that since Pace is an Ohio State guy. :) Scott --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Lois Long Carey <[email protected]> wrote: > From: Lois Long Carey <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [PACE] Alabama Paces > To: [email protected] > Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 8:06 AM > I agree with Joe . I would love to hear from any black Paces > from Alabama( > or elsewhere) who could submit to a DNA test. > Is it possible that since in 1850 Cherokees were listed as > black, that some > black Paces today could believe they > are black because of being listed that way on earlier > census, rather than > Cherokee? Are there any Paces in the > Society with Cherokee ancestry who have done the DNA test? > Is there DNA > different from others? > Anyone with Pace ancestry should be welcomed to the Society > .They may > possibly solve many questions. > If my Canadian friend is a subscriber to this list. I would > love to hear > from her and whether she ever did get a relative > to do the test. Do you know,Gordon in Canada? She brought > pictures of her > relatives in the USA who were black, > but she looks as white as anyone I know. > >From some notes from her. > William Chastain Captain went to Canada between 1837-1842 > With him was a Lucy Ann White b, June 16, 1827 in > Charlottesville or > Staunton,Va > >From more notes from her there seems to be a > connection to William Moment > Pace b. 1806 and Dicy King > The approx. location of the land that the Captain Children > inherited is 130 > acres at Cuffey's Creek > In her notes are also the following Virginia family names, > Meriwether > Anderson > Lewis > Henry Pace(editor of the" Gazette of the United > States"- broke the news on > Oct. 13, 1802 that > Thomas Jefferson had fathered a child by a slave( Slly > Hemmings) > Henry Pace's partner was found floating in the river > after the story broke. > Ann Meriwether Johnson( from her Captain line) had a second > marriage to John > Cosby. > This is of particular interest to me as the lady who lived > with my Pace > family was Fannie Cosby( wife of Edw.Cosby) > > > Lois Carey > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > * * * > > Please note: My new email address is [email protected] > Please remove > [email protected] from your address books and files so that > we can stay in > touch! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janders 45" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 9:08 AM > Subject: Re: [PACE] tri-racial Paces > > > The black Paces that I knew growing up in Clarke Co, AL, > did not appear to > be of mixed race, but undoubtedly there are a number of > black Paces out > there who would be a yDNA match for our white Pace lines. > I only became > aware of a famous case from my home county a couple of > years ago: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pace_v._Alabama > > http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~novkov/research/pacechap.htm#_edn4 > The link will take you to a rather scholarly study of a > court case that went > all the way to the US Supreme Court. "Tony Pace . . . > . and his partner Mary > Ann Cox were convicted in 1881 of engaging in adultery or > fornication, a > felony because she was white and he was (in the statute’s > language) a Negro > or a descendant of a Negro. . . . At the time of their > arrest, they were > living in Clarke County, in the south central region of > Alabama where many > former slaves had remained after emancipation. . . ." > > My hypothesis is that Tony Pace was a possible descendent > of Dempsey Pace > and, hence, a cousin. I had a lead on a possible > descendent of the Tony > Pace in the court case and I attempted to contact him in > order to invite him > to join the Pace Society and submit a DNA sample, but I got > no response to > my emails, possibly because the addresses I had were no > longer valid. > > I personally think that it would be great if we had some > DNA samples from > black Paces and I would welcome them into the Society. > > Joe Anderson > > > > > > From: [email protected]> To: [email protected]; > [email protected]> Date: > > Sun, 19 Oct 2008 14:42:19 -0500> Subject: Re: > [PACE] tri-racial Paces > > > > << Many slaves took the last name of their > owners>> > > > > Yes, and thought some might not like it, some of those > slaves were the> > > children of the owners. Thus, some of them may carry > male Pace genes. I> > > would be much in favor of soliciting DNA from black > Paces if we can find > > any> who would donate. > _________________________________________________________________ > Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths > show you how. > http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Lois Long Carey wrote: > Are there any Paces in the > Society with Cherokee ancestry who have done the DNA test? Is there DNA > different from others? > Anyone with Pace ancestry should be welcomed to the Society .They may > possibly solve many questions. > If my Canadian friend is a subscriber to this list. I would love to hear > from her and whether she ever did get a relative > to do the test. Do you know,Gordon in Canada? She brought pictures of her > relatives in the USA who were black, > but she looks as white as anyone I know. Yes, I subscribed her onto the Pace list myself. She has recognised many of the Pace family names from your ancestry and connected them with an ancestral chart from her family. More work needs to be done on this. This is an interesting case but it seems to involve some kind of political cover-up from the Jefferson era. I was expecting to see someone of colour when I went to visit Barb Danby at Waterloo, Ontario. I read with her the book about Thomas Jefferson from the Waterloo Library. It mentioned HENRY PACE editor of the National or US Gazette had disclosed information, I think about JEFFERSON. HENRY PACE was beaten or roughed up for doing so. Afterwards, MERIWETHER LEWIS was killed, Shortly after being appointed Governor of the Louisiana Territory. (Murdered or suicide) Was Lewis' death to do with being appointed governor of the Louisiana Territory or something else. He was called back from St. Louis to take this posting, if I remember correctly. The episode of HENRY PACE seemed to possibly have a connection to the LEWIS death. Does anyone know more about HENRY PACE, his ancestry? These facts likely have a connection to Barb Danby's ancestry and why she can't put a handle on some of it. There are historical situations that are difficult to explain, especially when political skullduggery seems to be involved and I've read enough essays that indicate. Barb Danby has intense JOHNSON connections and was in close contact with a JOHNSON researcher in New England. JOHNSON is intricately involved with PACE ancestry, as we know, in those VA counties of your ancestry. In Ontario we had the terminus of the Underground Railway and it continued on to Montreal. Many coloured folk came here to Ontario and American bounty hunters came up to kill them if they couldn't take them back to the US. Some American bounty hunters, much hated in Ontario, were killed themselves. The Americans were much hated in colonial Upper Canada (Ontario) and the blacks of emancipation were very much welcomed. Then the American Irish or Fenian Raids of 1837 were beaten back. This is why many of Scott Aaron's United Empire Loyalist Paces left Ontario and returned to the US. Much hard feeling still exists today here in Ontario. In Ontario we have some interesting Colonial Heritage TV programmes that go deeply into this so we don't forget easily. I've recorded many. This is where American History differs depending on what side of the border it's taught. Anyway, so much for that, but I believe some of this had an effect on Barb Danby's ancestry and why William Chastain Captain went to Canada between 1837-1842 and was sent some kind of pension to keep the family members in Canada so they might not be killed as so many fleeing folk were, before or after they made it to Canada. Could it be Barb Danby's ancestor connected to Monticello was from Cherokee background instead of black. As you say, Lois, some Cherokee were considered black, probably for the land grab in Tennessee. These people would look white so they had to be made to look otherwise, politically. Consider Will Rogers from Claremore, Oklahoma wasn't he Cherokee. I visited the museum with Ivan Pace in July. He had a way of talking about politics. Truly a great man and respected everywhere. He also looked as white as anyone. Maybe Barb Danby's people were Cherokee and some were black and the Cherokee were considered black and made to look that way for the land grab in Tennessee and then the Trail of Tears. There is much on the Creek-southeast Rootsweb list. Some of my ARCH family went there from England in colonial days. Also came across some PACES on that list. GTP >>From some notes from her. > William Chastain Captain went to Canada between 1837-1842 > With him was a Lucy Ann White b, June 16, 1827 in Charlottesville or > Staunton,Va >>From more notes from her there seems to be a connection to William Moment > Pace b. 1806 and Dicy King > The approx. location of the land that the Captain Children inherited is 130 > acres at Cuffey's Creek > In her notes are also the following Virginia family names, > Meriwether > Anderson > Lewis > Henry Pace(editor of the" Gazette of the United States"- broke the news on > Oct. 13, 1802 that > Thomas Jefferson had fathered a child by a slave( Slly Hemmings) > Henry Pace's partner was found floating in the river after the story broke. Also wasn't Meriwether Lewis found floating in a river, thought to have been murdered or suicide? GTP > Ann Meriwether Johnson( from her Captain line) had a second marriage to John > Cosby. > This is of particular interest to me as the lady who lived with my Pace > family was Fannie Cosby( wife of Edw.Cosby) > > > Lois Carey