I think that the chart to which Roy was referring is located at http://www.pacesociety.org/DNA/DNAillustration.htm . -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Roy Johnson Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 11:02 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PACE] DNA testing and Native American ancestry Betty, I'm sure Rebecca will give you an excellent answer as she understands DNA better than I do, but let me jump in and maybe I can help. Genealogical studies use only the Y chromosome. Females do not have a Y chromosome because that's what makes a fetus a male. So there could never be any crossover from the female side. That's why it works to test a lineage. If any female DNA was included, it would be impossible to tell where the DNa came from. You get your overall DNA from all kinds of ancestors; there is no way to sort it out except to use two factors that usually pass in "pure" form down a line. One is the surname, which usually goes male to male, and the other is the Y chromosome, which ALWAYS goes only male to male in pure form without any female elements. By matching these two, a male can get clues to his lineage. There is also a form of testing, called mtdna, which tests the female line, but again, this goes in pure form female to female to female, etc., so this wouldn't help you either, as your Indian ancestry apparently goes female to male to whatever. There is a chart online which explains this and shows that on a genealogical chart, only the "outside" lines can be tested. Try it at file:///C://public/DNA/DNAillustration.htm It shows how Y chromosome DNA and mtdna are the only types of DNA that do not combine and recombine to make it impossible to tell where it came from. These two types pass on in "pure" form. So there are a lot of your ancestors whose DNA you can never track specifically. Since females change names (usually) every generation mtdna is not usually useful in tracing a surname. Roy Johnson -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Betty A Pace Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 8:45 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PACE] DNA testing and Native American ancestry Rebecca, Let me see if I have this straight. Are you saying that if the Native American ancestry is in the female line, that there will be no signs of it in the Pace DNA test? My Alsey Pace (s/oStephen Pace, s/o John the Tory) had a Native American mother. My brother David took the short DNA test (#19490) and we fit into the Richard & Isabel Pace line. My brother did have one marker that was not typical -- could that reflect our Native American gggggrandmother? Betty Pace On Thu, 6 Nov 2008 18:41:01 -0800 (PST) Rebecca Christensen <[email protected]> writes: > The DNA tests being used for the surname groups can be used to > determine if there is Native American ancestry - but ONLY on the > same path on the pedigree chart as the surname. So, if a Pace had > Native American ancestry on his father's father's father's father's, > etc., line - the same line as the surname usually is passed down, > then the Y-chromosome DNA testing should give a result that would > indicate Native American ancestry. But the Y-chromosome testing > that is done for surname groups cannot tell you about Native > American ancestry on any of your other lines that would show up on > your pedigree. > > Likewise, if you wanted to test for Native American ancestry on your > mother's mother's mother's mother, etc. line - down the very bottom > branch of your pedigree chart, you could do so with mitochondrial > DNA testing (mtDNA). But it wouldn't tell you about any Native > American ancestry on any of your other lines. > > To find out about the other lines of your pedigree (everything in > the middle on the pedigree chart) you need to find participants > among your extended family - cousins that fit the qualifications for > the 1st two tests - either a cousin with the surname of interest for > the line where Native American ancestry is suspected in the strictly > paternal line or a cousin who is a descendant through a strictly > female line from the ancestress of suspected Native American > ancestry. It is also possible in some cases to have autosomal > DNA testing indicate Native American ancestry, but the Native > American ancestry needs to be fairly recent - within the recent past > few generations. > > So for the example indicated by Gordon W. Pace, although he has > "substantial Cherokee blood" in his ancestry, because his Pace > surname line following the surname back up the pedigree chart is not > Native American, the Y-chromosome DNA test he took as part of the > Pace DNA project will not show his Native American ancestry. He > would need to find a cousin who either has the surname of one of his > male Cherokee ancestors where the Cherokee passes down the surname > line or a cousin who is a descendant of the strictly female line > back to a Cherokee ancestress. Then the cousin could be tested for > Native American ancestry. > > Rebecca Christensen > > --- On Thu, 11/6/08, Gordon W. Pace <[email protected]> > wrote: > From: Gordon W. Pace <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [PACE] Alabama Paces > To: [email protected] > Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 7:40 PM > > Lois: > In response to your question, I have substantial Cherokee blood, > about 3% or > more and have done the Pace DNA test. The results of my DNA test > match most of > the Paces who trace their ancestry to Richard Pace of Jamestown. I > know that > there are several other Paces who have Cherokee ancestry who are > either > distantly related or unrelated to me. The DNA test results, as far > as I know, > are not capable of indicating a Cherokee bloodline. > Gordon W. Pace > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ____________________________________________________________ Bills adding up? Click here for free information on payday loans. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3m3aOs0ZXrAygV3SsqrmsfrML1 Sw2qZ0xJfYZEprZWo1itmQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1772 - Release Date: 11/7/2008 9:08 AM ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks. I must have linked to the one on my local drive by mistake. That's what happens when you do things in a hurry. Roy -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Martin, Glen M Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 11:16 AM To: '[email protected]' Subject: Re: [PACE] DNA testing and Native American ancestry I think that the chart to which Roy was referring is located at http://www.pacesociety.org/DNA/DNAillustration.htm . -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Roy Johnson Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 11:02 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PACE] DNA testing and Native American ancestry Betty, I'm sure Rebecca will give you an excellent answer as she understands DNA better than I do, but let me jump in and maybe I can help. Genealogical studies use only the Y chromosome. Females do not have a Y chromosome because that's what makes a fetus a male. So there could never be any crossover from the female side. That's why it works to test a lineage. If any female DNA was included, it would be impossible to tell where the DNa came from. You get your overall DNA from all kinds of ancestors; there is no way to sort it out except to use two factors that usually pass in "pure" form down a line. One is the surname, which usually goes male to male, and the other is the Y chromosome, which ALWAYS goes only male to male in pure form without any female elements. By matching these two, a male can get clues to his lineage. There is also a form of testing, called mtdna, which tests the female line, but again, this goes in pure form female to female to female, etc., so this wouldn't help you either, as your Indian ancestry apparently goes female to male to whatever. There is a chart online which explains this and shows that on a genealogical chart, only the "outside" lines can be tested. Try it at file:///C://public/DNA/DNAillustration.htm It shows how Y chromosome DNA and mtdna are the only types of DNA that do not combine and recombine to make it impossible to tell where it came from. These two types pass on in "pure" form. So there are a lot of your ancestors whose DNA you can never track specifically. Since females change names (usually) every generation mtdna is not usually useful in tracing a surname. Roy Johnson -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Betty A Pace Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 8:45 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PACE] DNA testing and Native American ancestry Rebecca, Let me see if I have this straight. Are you saying that if the Native American ancestry is in the female line, that there will be no signs of it in the Pace DNA test? My Alsey Pace (s/oStephen Pace, s/o John the Tory) had a Native American mother. My brother David took the short DNA test (#19490) and we fit into the Richard & Isabel Pace line. My brother did have one marker that was not typical -- could that reflect our Native American gggggrandmother? Betty Pace On Thu, 6 Nov 2008 18:41:01 -0800 (PST) Rebecca Christensen <[email protected]> writes: > The DNA tests being used for the surname groups can be used to > determine if there is Native American ancestry - but ONLY on the > same path on the pedigree chart as the surname. So, if a Pace had > Native American ancestry on his father's father's father's father's, > etc., line - the same line as the surname usually is passed down, > then the Y-chromosome DNA testing should give a result that would > indicate Native American ancestry. But the Y-chromosome testing > that is done for surname groups cannot tell you about Native > American ancestry on any of your other lines that would show up on > your pedigree. > > Likewise, if you wanted to test for Native American ancestry on your > mother's mother's mother's mother, etc. line - down the very bottom > branch of your pedigree chart, you could do so with mitochondrial > DNA testing (mtDNA). But it wouldn't tell you about any Native > American ancestry on any of your other lines. > > To find out about the other lines of your pedigree (everything in > the middle on the pedigree chart) you need to find participants > among your extended family - cousins that fit the qualifications for > the 1st two tests - either a cousin with the surname of interest for > the line where Native American ancestry is suspected in the strictly > paternal line or a cousin who is a descendant through a strictly > female line from the ancestress of suspected Native American > ancestry. It is also possible in some cases to have autosomal > DNA testing indicate Native American ancestry, but the Native > American ancestry needs to be fairly recent - within the recent past > few generations. > > So for the example indicated by Gordon W. Pace, although he has > "substantial Cherokee blood" in his ancestry, because his Pace > surname line following the surname back up the pedigree chart is not > Native American, the Y-chromosome DNA test he took as part of the > Pace DNA project will not show his Native American ancestry. He > would need to find a cousin who either has the surname of one of his > male Cherokee ancestors where the Cherokee passes down the surname > line or a cousin who is a descendant of the strictly female line > back to a Cherokee ancestress. Then the cousin could be tested for > Native American ancestry. > > Rebecca Christensen > > --- On Thu, 11/6/08, Gordon W. Pace <[email protected]> > wrote: > From: Gordon W. Pace <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [PACE] Alabama Paces > To: [email protected] > Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 7:40 PM > > Lois: > In response to your question, I have substantial Cherokee blood, > about 3% or > more and have done the Pace DNA test. The results of my DNA test > match most of > the Paces who trace their ancestry to Richard Pace of Jamestown. I > know that > there are several other Paces who have Cherokee ancestry who are > either > distantly related or unrelated to me. The DNA test results, as far > as I know, > are not capable of indicating a Cherokee bloodline. > Gordon W. Pace > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ____________________________________________________________ Bills adding up? Click here for free information on payday loans. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3m3aOs0ZXrAygV3SsqrmsfrML1 Sw2qZ0xJfYZEprZWo1itmQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1772 - Release Date: 11/7/2008 9:08 AM ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1772 - Release Date: 11/7/2008 9:08 AM