Scott: Thanks for the correction re Darwin Kipp. So Darwin was a son of Jesse Kipp. But do you know if Jesse was a brother of Joseph Kipp? Gordon W. Pace -----Original Message----- >From: Scott Aaron <rtanyon@yahoo.com> >Sent: Oct 28, 2009 7:58 PM >To: "pace@rootsweb.com" <pace@rootsweb.com>, "Gordon W. Pace" <gordonwpace@peoplepc.com> >Subject: Re: [PACE] Pace, Kipp and the Marias River Massacre > >Interesting stuff Gordon. Thanks! > >One minor correction...in my trying to explain which KIPP was which, I think I created more confusion than clarification... > >"[In other words Darwin Kipp was a son of Joseph Kipp, who was associated with the Marias River Massacre.]" > >Actually, Darwin KIPP was the son of a Jesse KIPP. So Darwin wasn't a direct descendant of that Joseph Kipp, but they were cousins. Joseph's father James (the fur trader), was named after Darwin's great-grandfather James (1751-1785). Probably not of great interest to the PACE list, but figured I'd straighten that out in case any KIPP researcher stumbles across this thread in the future. > >Scott > >--- On Wed, 10/28/09, Gordon W. Pace <gordonwpace@peoplepc.com> wrote: > >> From: Gordon W. Pace <gordonwpace@peoplepc.com> >> Subject: [PACE] Pace, Kipp and the Marias River Massacre >> To: "pace@rootsweb.com" <pace@rootsweb.com> >> Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2009, 4:10 PM >> This is Gordon W. Pace.  My >> additions to the following are included in brackets. >> The following has been slightly reworded for clarity. >> On July 14 Gordon Thomas Pace of Ontario, Canada sent me an >> interesting email.  Here are most of the >> contents:  “You might want to … give consideration >> to this rather sensitive part of Pace family history that I >> uncovered this past week. >> It appears that my Pace family [which goes back to John of >> Middlesex and the Shropshire Paces] and Scott Aaron’s Pace >> family [which goes back to the Pees/Paces of Prussia] come >> together somewhat remotely in associated historical events, >> namely the Marias River Massacre of 1870 in Montana which >> most likely led up to the great massacre six years later, >> the Battle at Little Big Horn, where Custer and Sitting Bull >> came together, also in Montana. >> This week I discovered the following words in reference to >> the Marias River Massacre of 1870 [from] http://www.dickshovel.com/parts2.html >> “Joseph Kipp, half-Mandan Indian of North Dakota [was a] >> son of white trader James Kipp.  Joseph Kipp married >> one of Heavy Runner’s daughters, Martha, [after the Marias >> River Massacre] and adopted her children, who had been left >> fatherless by the soldiers.” >> Gordon T. said, I recognized the surname Kipp from some of >> Scott Aaron’s background, quoted as follows: >> “David Pace was brother to William Pace who m. Paulina >> Chapel – from early registers of the Old Anglican Church, >> St. Thomas, Ontario.  Marriage:  26th Dec 1827. >> William and Paulina Pace were grandparents to William John >> Pace who I have been researching as was Brenda Howorko at >> the BC and Alberta Archives, as you probably know, for some >> time now.  It’s like so many building blocks of >> history coming together.” >> [GordonT. notes that the following info comes from:  >> www.pacefamilyhistory.info/lines/yarmouth.htm#david >> [The above] David Pace b. abt 1817 and m. Catherine >> Everitt.  One of their daughters, Hannah Pace, m. >> Darwin Kipp in Yarmouth Twp, Elgin Co, Ontario. >> Gordon T. says: so I wrote Scott and asked if he had >> further Kipp info or anything that might be related which he >> replied: >> “The Darwin Kipp you listed was the great-grandson of >> James Kipp (1751-1785).  James Kipp (the famous >> fur-trader, who was close with many Indian tribes in >> Montana) was named after James (1751-1785) … his >> uncle.  The Joseph Kipp that you mention was James’ >> (the fur trader) son.  [In other words Darwin Kipp was >> a son of Joseph Kipp, who was associated with the Marias >> River Massacre.]  [Joseph] had a colorful career in >> Canada and Montana, being known as “The Merchant Prince of >> the High Missouri.”  He testified under oath to the >> Indian Claims Commission in February, 1913, forth-three >> years after the massacre.” >> [Gordon T. sent me a brief description of the Marias River >> Massacre but I found a more detailed description online, >> which includes an important revelation about Joseph Kipp. >> The source is:  >> www.montanaheritageproject.org/edheritage/articles/studentessay/marias.htm >> It was written by Scott Warnick and following are the >> relevant excerpts: >> “On January 15, 1870, a detachment of the U. S., Calvary >> from Fort Shaw under the command of Major Eugene Baker >> marched north towards the Marias River.  They suffered >> heavily from the bitter cold, as they could not start fires >> out of fear that the Indians would detect their >> column.  The temperature hovered around thirty degrees >> below zero.  But the cold didn’t matter, because they >> were going to kill Indians…. >> Malcolm Clarke’s death at the hands of Owl Child had >> inflamed the public and the cavalry into a state of >> fury.  There had to be repercussions.  Owl Child >> was an ambitious young Indian warrior who thought to gain >> notice by stealing several of Clarke’s horses.  He >> succeeded at this, but was eventually captured by Clarke and >> beaten.  Now, to beat an Indian warrior in front of his >> entire camp was unforgivable.  Therefore, Owl Child >> took a band of warriors to Clarke and killed him and several >> others. >> And so, on January 23, two hundred soldiers lined along >> snowy bluffs at the bend of the Marias River.  The camp >> was surrounded, its warriors were away, and most of the >> remaining Indians were women and small children. >> Chief Heavy Runner [per Gordon T. he was Chief of the >> Piegan Tribe whose people are closely related to the Blood >> Reserve folks of the Blackfoot Nation and were considered >> peaceful Indians, see below] came out of his lodge waving a >> safe-conduct paper [issued by the Government].  An army >> scout, Joe Kipp [the above Joseph Kipp] shouted that it was >> the wrong camp but was threatened to silence.  The >> soldiers were supposed to be attacking Mountain Chief’s >> village.  Another scout, Joe Cobell, fired a single >> shot that dropped Heavy Runner in his tracks.  >> The relentless spray of army bullets that was followed was >> dubbed as the greatest slaughter of Indians ever made by U. >> S. troops.  The hasty count performed by the soldiers >> revealed 173 dead Indians, as well as the 140 women and >> children that were captured. The soldiers lost only one man >> …”  [It seems likely to me that Joseph Kipp did not >> fire a shot as he knew that this was the wrong tribe. gwp] >> [Gordon Thomas Pace added these additional excerpted >> comments:] >> “Sitting Bull has been mentioned in my personal Pace >> family history throughout my life.  My grandfather and >> his aunt and uncle at Lethbridge, Alberta (1880’s, >> 1890’s) … had been rather closely associated with >> Sitting Bull when he spent time near Lethbridge at the Blood >> Reserve …, according to a DVD on Sitting Bull I bought at >> the Oklahoma History Centre last summer.  I had thought >> my elder’s comments rather fictitious but now, maybe >> not… >> Many people were at my grandfather’s funeral in 1926 at >> Lethbridge.  Over the years, my people didn’t know >> any of the many people at the funeral; they had just arrived >> from England but they went to the funeral at >> Lethbridge.  Now we (Fred Pace descendants) figure they >> were people of the Blood Reserve.  And I have this >> month been approached again by another member of the Pace >> family, a descendant of Fred Pace, who is a school teacher >> there and saying her children are taking quite an interest >> in their family history. >> Since next year’s Pace Reunion will be held at Bozeman, >> Montana, I wonder about these facts of history and the >> sensitivity of such.  Could it be that other Pace >> ancestors were killed in these events?  Some >> interesting findings occur as we pry into history and >> uncover events of the past.” >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> PeoplePC Online >> A better way to Internet >> http://www.peoplepc.com >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PACE-request@rootsweb.com >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the >> subject and the body of the message > > > ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com