dont think ANYONE knows for sure. if so, there wouldnt be this controversy about birthdates, marriages, etc. thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Johnson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [PACE] Richard m. Mary -- correction > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf > Of debbie pace > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:58 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PACE] Richard m. Mary -- correction > > my older family records show rebecca poythress and there is marriage > records > > to show this. i have that francis poythress wife's name was rebecca > coggan(maiden name) richard pace ii was married to mary baker or mary > knowles??? > > ============================================================================ > ===================================== > > Where are those marriage records? The most diligent research by the best > Pace genealogists have not found any such records. > > In fact, research has found the opposite: Richard and Rebecca Pace were > married and had children 14 years before Rebecca Poythress was born. So > how > could she be his wife" > > Here is the info from Mrs. Maude McClure Kelly, one of the best Pace > researchers: > > A letter written to MRS. ELEANOR PACE TERRELL 20 MAY 1971 by MISS MAUD > KELLY, Attorney, who devoted over forty years accumulating Pace family > records, states on p. 5 of the letter that RICHARD PACE (4) DID NOT MARRY > A > POYTHRESS and, "FURTHERMORE, THE REBECCA POYTHRESS WHOM SOME CLAIM AS HIS > WIFE WAS BORN ABOUT 1714, WHEREAS RICHARD AND REBECCA PACE HAD GIRLS BORN > IN > THE 1690'S AND A SON, RICHARD, BORN 1699-1700, WHICH IS 14 YEARS AT LEAST > BEFORE HIS SO CALLED [alleged] MOTHER WAS BORN." > > . To prove marriage records, they need to be cited specifically and quoted > exactly. Like this: > > The 1608 Marriage Reg. of St. Dunstan's, Stepney, County of Middlesex, > England. Specific wording of the marriage register, from Pace Society > Bulletin No. 13, September, 1970: > > " Richard Pace of Wapping Wall Carpenter and Isabell Smyth of the same > marryed the 5th day October 1608" > > It would be even better if the specific page in the St. Dunstan's record > were cited. > > Thanks to all who have contributed to this discussion. Controversy is good > if it leads to improved understanding. It is a struggle getting the > inaccurate records out of the various gedcoms. > > Roy Johnson > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "val & jeff tice" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 4:46 PM > Subject: Re: [PACE] Richard m. Mary -- correction > > >> After re-reading it, it is because Richard Pace paid him for it. I'd >> always >> read that it was a Deed of Gift. I should have paid closer attention >> earlier. It is actually just a Deed that doesn't mention what the >> consideration was. >> >> Val >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On >> Behalf >> Of James Blair >> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 4:40 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [PACE] Richard m. Mary -- correction >> >> It's been explained to me that this scenario wouldn't have applied -- I >> was >> misunderstanding the inheritance laws. So my suggestion below can't >> explain >> why Richard Baker deeded the 140 acres to Richard Pace. It's a mystery >> to >> me. >> >> James >> >> --- On Tue, 1/6/09, James Blair <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> Richard Baker's wife Ann mentions (in her petition to >>> the Westover vestry, see >>> http://searches2.rootsweb.com/th/read/PACE/2002-09/1032643426, >>> also posted by James Pace), having "the charge of two >>> children to maintaine". If these were children of >>> Richard Baker's, and if one was a boy, by law that child >>> would inherit all Richard Baker's property. So if Mary >>> Pace really was Baker's daughter, and he realized he was >>> soon going to die, that might be why he would give her >>> husband a deathbed gift of land -- because he couldn't >>> leave it as a legacy. >>> >>> Wholly theoretical, however. The maiden name of Mary Pace >>> remains unproven. >>> >>> James >>> >>> --- On Mon, 1/5/09, Roy Johnson <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> > From: Roy Johnson <[email protected]> >>> > Subject: RE: [PACE] The PG land sold by John and >>> Richard Pace 1759 >>> > To: [email protected], [email protected] >>> > Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 10:27 PM >>> > Debbie and others, >>> > >>> > We have to be very careful to distinguish between >>> theory >>> > and fact in citing >>> > these early Pace records. On the Pace Network I have a >>> > section called >>> > Problems and Controversies in Pace research, in which >>> > several competent Pace >>> > authorities state that (1) there is absolutely no firm >>> > evidence that Richard >>> > Pace married a Knowles or a Baker, although some >>> > genealogies cite one and >>> > some the other. (2) the Pace-Poythress marriage is >>> also >>> > quite questionable. >>> > >>> > >>> > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pace/poythres.htm#boykin >>> > >>> > The above is a discussion of the Pace-Poythress >>> > controversy. >>> > >>> > >>> > This URL discusses the Baker-Knowles controversy: >>> > >>> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pace/bkr_knwl.htm >>> > >>> > If there are no sources verifying an assertion, it >>> cannot >>> > be cited as a >>> > fact. >>> > >>> > Roy Johnson >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word >>> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >>> the body of the message >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in >> the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.5/1881 - Release Date: 1/7/2009 > 5:59 PM > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message
it looks like from what i can see, rebecca coggin(cogan) married a francis poythress and one of their children was rebecca poythress who married richard iii ----- Original Message ----- From: "debbie pace" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 8:49 PM Subject: Re: [PACE] Richard m. Mary -- correction > dont think ANYONE knows for sure. if so, there wouldnt be this > controversy > about birthdates, marriages, etc. thanks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roy Johnson" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 5:39 PM > Subject: Re: [PACE] Richard m. Mary -- correction > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On >> Behalf >> Of debbie pace >> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:58 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [PACE] Richard m. Mary -- correction >> >> my older family records show rebecca poythress and there is marriage >> records >> >> to show this. i have that francis poythress wife's name was rebecca >> coggan(maiden name) richard pace ii was married to mary baker or mary >> knowles??? >> >> ============================================================================ >> ===================================== >> >> Where are those marriage records? The most diligent research by the best >> Pace genealogists have not found any such records. >> >> In fact, research has found the opposite: Richard and Rebecca Pace were >> married and had children 14 years before Rebecca Poythress was born. So >> how >> could she be his wife" >> >> Here is the info from Mrs. Maude McClure Kelly, one of the best Pace >> researchers: >> >> A letter written to MRS. ELEANOR PACE TERRELL 20 MAY 1971 by MISS MAUD >> KELLY, Attorney, who devoted over forty years accumulating Pace family >> records, states on p. 5 of the letter that RICHARD PACE (4) DID NOT MARRY >> A >> POYTHRESS and, "FURTHERMORE, THE REBECCA POYTHRESS WHOM SOME CLAIM AS HIS >> WIFE WAS BORN ABOUT 1714, WHEREAS RICHARD AND REBECCA PACE HAD GIRLS BORN >> IN >> THE 1690'S AND A SON, RICHARD, BORN 1699-1700, WHICH IS 14 YEARS AT LEAST >> BEFORE HIS SO CALLED [alleged] MOTHER WAS BORN." >> >> . To prove marriage records, they need to be cited specifically and >> quoted >> exactly. Like this: >> >> The 1608 Marriage Reg. of St. Dunstan's, Stepney, County of Middlesex, >> England. Specific wording of the marriage register, from Pace Society >> Bulletin No. 13, September, 1970: >> >> " Richard Pace of Wapping Wall Carpenter and Isabell Smyth of the same >> marryed the 5th day October 1608" >> >> It would be even better if the specific page in the St. Dunstan's record >> were cited. >> >> Thanks to all who have contributed to this discussion. Controversy is >> good >> if it leads to improved understanding. It is a struggle getting the >> inaccurate records out of the various gedcoms. >> >> Roy Johnson >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "val & jeff tice" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 4:46 PM >> Subject: Re: [PACE] Richard m. Mary -- correction >> >> >>> After re-reading it, it is because Richard Pace paid him for it. I'd >>> always >>> read that it was a Deed of Gift. I should have paid closer attention >>> earlier. It is actually just a Deed that doesn't mention what the >>> consideration was. >>> >>> Val >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On >>> Behalf >>> Of James Blair >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 4:40 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [PACE] Richard m. Mary -- correction >>> >>> It's been explained to me that this scenario wouldn't have applied -- I >>> was >>> misunderstanding the inheritance laws. So my suggestion below can't >>> explain >>> why Richard Baker deeded the 140 acres to Richard Pace. It's a mystery >>> to >>> me. >>> >>> James >>> >>> --- On Tue, 1/6/09, James Blair <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Richard Baker's wife Ann mentions (in her petition to >>>> the Westover vestry, see >>>> http://searches2.rootsweb.com/th/read/PACE/2002-09/1032643426, >>>> also posted by James Pace), having "the charge of two >>>> children to maintaine". If these were children of >>>> Richard Baker's, and if one was a boy, by law that child >>>> would inherit all Richard Baker's property. So if Mary >>>> Pace really was Baker's daughter, and he realized he was >>>> soon going to die, that might be why he would give her >>>> husband a deathbed gift of land -- because he couldn't >>>> leave it as a legacy. >>>> >>>> Wholly theoretical, however. The maiden name of Mary Pace >>>> remains unproven. >>>> >>>> James >>>> >>>> --- On Mon, 1/5/09, Roy Johnson <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> > From: Roy Johnson <[email protected]> >>>> > Subject: RE: [PACE] The PG land sold by John and >>>> Richard Pace 1759 >>>> > To: [email protected], [email protected] >>>> > Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 10:27 PM >>>> > Debbie and others, >>>> > >>>> > We have to be very careful to distinguish between >>>> theory >>>> > and fact in citing >>>> > these early Pace records. On the Pace Network I have a >>>> > section called >>>> > Problems and Controversies in Pace research, in which >>>> > several competent Pace >>>> > authorities state that (1) there is absolutely no firm >>>> > evidence that Richard >>>> > Pace married a Knowles or a Baker, although some >>>> > genealogies cite one and >>>> > some the other. (2) the Pace-Poythress marriage is >>>> also >>>> > quite questionable. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pace/poythres.htm#boykin >>>> > >>>> > The above is a discussion of the Pace-Poythress >>>> > controversy. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > This URL discusses the Baker-Knowles controversy: >>>> > >>>> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pace/bkr_knwl.htm >>>> > >>>> > If there are no sources verifying an assertion, it >>>> cannot >>>> > be cited as a >>>> > fact. >>>> > >>>> > Roy Johnson >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> [email protected] with the word >>>> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >>>> the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >>> in >>> the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >>> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in >> the subject and the body of the message >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.5/1881 - Release Date: 1/7/2009 >> 5:59 PM >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message