To add to the possible DNA findings, i invite you to refer to *PSA Bulletin DEC. 1993* #106. Bruce Howard inquire page 22. " James L. Pace, 'called Jim Pace' His true name was Isaac L. Stroud. He was born 6/10/1844 in Cobb County Ga., the son of Sherwood Stroud and Elizabeth Pace. He went near Ft. Smith, Ark. in the year 1860. When to the war between the states started he enlisted in the CSA Army, which he deserted several months later and joined the Union Army. He had changed his name for fear of being captured ( that is not the real reason but the one he stated) After the war he made his way to Atchison Co. Missouri, where he met and married Amanda Richey on Feb. 02, 1889. By 1923 to North, Kansas City Mo. where he died in 1929. Mrs. Amanda Pace died in 1940. James and Amanda had two children. Lula M. PACE b. 12/15/1890 and George H. PACE b. 7/01, 1891 both in Atchison Co. Mo. Bruce was asking help in finding additional info on this family. But if George H. or male decendant were a participant in the PSA--DNA program he would prob. be on the non-connection list. j.pace/wmsburg,va On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Roy Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > Re the thread below regarding Jack Pace's ancestry---- > > I have a similar situation but not quite the same. > > I trace Johnsons back to my gg grandfather and hit a blank wall. The > information was passed down by word of mouth that Johnson is Swedish. Could > be; there are Swedish, English, and Scottish Johnsons--and I found in > Sweden > that Johnson was not necessarily derived from Johannson; there are Johnsons > by that spelling in Sweden. > > DNA gives a possible reason. Possible origin of male ancestor: West > African. > Deep clade test seems to confirm that hypothesis. > > My gg grandfather was a quintessential fiddle playing, hound-dog hunting > Appalachian hillbilly from eastern Kentucky, parents said to have been born > in Virginia but Kentucky was once part of Virginia, so who knows? Not many > Swedes in that area! > > But my research shows that there were very early Swedish settlers in New > Jersey and Delaware, and there were small free black settlements among them > as early as the late 1600s. > > So if a Swedish girl or woman bore a child by a black male, that child > would > probably be raised Swedish and given the mother's surname. > > That's just speculation but it shows how that sort of thing could have > happened. One line of my family actually has a vague story about African > ancestry, and no one in the family today finds it objectionable, but in > earlier times it would be covered up as any drop of African blood brought > all the ignomy of the dreaded n-word. > > Jack is still a Pace, doesn't matter how he got the name, and I'm still a > (possibly Swedish) Johnson even if the male line is west African. > > My closest YDNA matches are in Senegal and Gambia, West Africa. No one else > on the large Johnson DNA study matches with me except my nephew, whom I had > tested for verification. > > Roy Johnson > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf > Of Jack Pace > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 3:46 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PACE] Succinct lines with sources > > Joe: Been down that path without much succes, but that is the fun of this > game, searching for and finding new data. Thanks. J.pace > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Janders 45 <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > Jack, > > > > I expect that you have already searched for daughters who survived to > > child-bearing age but then disappeared from the record? A lot of women > died > > in childbirth back in those days (just walk through some old cemeteries > and > > look at paired female/infant graves with the same dates of death), and a > > young widowed husband would not have been expected to raise an infant on > his > > own, so the child was often raised by the maternal grandparents. Then > the > > father heads out to take up land in the newly opened Ohio country and > > contact is lost with the child. Why wouldn't that child who was the son > of > > a Pace and raised by Paces go by the surname Pace? This sort of thing > > happened a lot back in those days and I would put it at the top of my > likely > > scenarios list. > > > > Joe Anderson > > > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:33:31 -0500> From: [email protected]> To: > > [email protected]> Subject: Re: [PACE] Succinct lines with sources > > > > > Kaarin: I have pretty well documented my line back to John of > Middlesex,> > > what a surprise when my DNA (one of the first submitted, and retested) > came> > > back indicating no connections to any Pace line, Some where along the > line> > > something occured that was not recorded. There are several possible > answers> > > but in the meanwhile we answer to the name of PACE, JackPace, > Williamsburg,> > > Va. > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Windows LiveT: Keep your life in sync. > > > > > > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_0120 > 09 > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > JackPace,Williamsburg, Virginia > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1892 - Release Date: 1/13/2009 > 8:04 PM > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > -- JackPace,Williamsburg, Virginia
Ever wonder why southerners refer to "The war between the states" while northerners called it the Civil War? The term "state" originally meant a sovereign political unit like France or England. Today we more often use "countries" or "nations". When the colonies became independent, they were not a nation or a unit; they were 13 separate sovereign units--that is, states like France or England--uniting voluntarily into a union. It took awhile for them to decide whether the states were independent "countries" or whether there was one nation. "War between the states" assumes that there were two legally constituted states, or countries, the United States of America and the Confederate States of America. The word "between" assumes only two entities; otherwise it would be "the war among the states". "Civil war" basically means a war between two factions within one state, or country. The Union and northern historians continued to refer to it as a civil war and assumed that the Confederacy was illegal, therefore not a "state" and that it was a war between factions in one "state". In our early history there were many who assumed that we were a true "United States" with each state being a sovereign political unit voluntarily into a union and could voluntarily secede from that union. They said "The United States are..." not "The United States is..." Regardless of what you call that war, I think we are all happy today that we are one nation, not fifty, and that it is "the United States is..." Roy Johnson -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jack Pace Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:38 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PACE] Surnames and how we get them.... To add to the possible DNA findings, i invite you to refer to *PSA Bulletin DEC. 1993* #106. Bruce Howard inquire page 22. " James L. Pace, 'called Jim Pace' His true name was Isaac L. Stroud. He was born 6/10/1844 in Cobb County Ga., the son of Sherwood Stroud and Elizabeth Pace. He went near Ft. Smith, Ark. in the year 1860. When to the war between the states started he enlisted in the CSA Army, which he deserted several months later and joined the Union Army. He had changed his name for fear of being captured ( that is not the real reason but the one he stated) After the war he made his way to Atchison Co. Missouri, where he met and married Amanda Richey on Feb. 02, 1889. By 1923 to North, Kansas City Mo. where he died in 1929. Mrs. Amanda Pace died in 1940. James and Amanda had two children. Lula M. PACE b. 12/15/1890 and George H. PACE b. 7/01, 1891 both in Atchison Co. Mo. Bruce was asking help in finding additional info on this family. But if George H. or male decendant were a participant in the PSA--DNA program he would prob. be on the non-connection list. j.pace/wmsburg,va On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Roy Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > Re the thread below regarding Jack Pace's ancestry---- > > I have a similar situation but not quite the same. > > I trace Johnsons back to my gg grandfather and hit a blank wall. The > information was passed down by word of mouth that Johnson is Swedish. Could > be; there are Swedish, English, and Scottish Johnsons--and I found in > Sweden > that Johnson was not necessarily derived from Johannson; there are Johnsons > by that spelling in Sweden. > > DNA gives a possible reason. Possible origin of male ancestor: West > African. > Deep clade test seems to confirm that hypothesis. > > My gg grandfather was a quintessential fiddle playing, hound-dog hunting > Appalachian hillbilly from eastern Kentucky, parents said to have been born > in Virginia but Kentucky was once part of Virginia, so who knows? Not many > Swedes in that area! > > But my research shows that there were very early Swedish settlers in New > Jersey and Delaware, and there were small free black settlements among them > as early as the late 1600s. > > So if a Swedish girl or woman bore a child by a black male, that child > would > probably be raised Swedish and given the mother's surname. > > That's just speculation but it shows how that sort of thing could have > happened. One line of my family actually has a vague story about African > ancestry, and no one in the family today finds it objectionable, but in > earlier times it would be covered up as any drop of African blood brought > all the ignomy of the dreaded n-word. > > Jack is still a Pace, doesn't matter how he got the name, and I'm still a > (possibly Swedish) Johnson even if the male line is west African. > > My closest YDNA matches are in Senegal and Gambia, West Africa. No one else > on the large Johnson DNA study matches with me except my nephew, whom I had > tested for verification. > > Roy Johnson > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf > Of Jack Pace > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 3:46 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PACE] Succinct lines with sources > > Joe: Been down that path without much succes, but that is the fun of this > game, searching for and finding new data. Thanks. J.pace > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Janders 45 <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > Jack, > > > > I expect that you have already searched for daughters who survived to > > child-bearing age but then disappeared from the record? A lot of women > died > > in childbirth back in those days (just walk through some old cemeteries > and > > look at paired female/infant graves with the same dates of death), and a > > young widowed husband would not have been expected to raise an infant on > his > > own, so the child was often raised by the maternal grandparents. Then > the > > father heads out to take up land in the newly opened Ohio country and > > contact is lost with the child. Why wouldn't that child who was the son > of > > a Pace and raised by Paces go by the surname Pace? This sort of thing > > happened a lot back in those days and I would put it at the top of my > likely > > scenarios list. > > > > Joe Anderson > > > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:33:31 -0500> From: [email protected]> To: > > [email protected]> Subject: Re: [PACE] Succinct lines with sources > > > > > Kaarin: I have pretty well documented my line back to John of > Middlesex,> > > what a surprise when my DNA (one of the first submitted, and retested) > came> > > back indicating no connections to any Pace line, Some where along the > line> > > something occured that was not recorded. There are several possible > answers> > > but in the meanwhile we answer to the name of PACE, JackPace, > Williamsburg,> > > Va. > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Windows LiveT: Keep your life in sync. > > > > > > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_0120 > 09 > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > JackPace,Williamsburg, Virginia > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1892 - Release Date: 1/13/2009 > 8:04 PM > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > -- JackPace,Williamsburg, Virginia ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1892 - Release Date: 1/13/2009 8:04 PM