Roy: Interesting on Civil War, but did you know that Lincoln issued the Emancipation proclamation on Jan. 1, 1863 which reads," That on the first day of Jan. in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty three all persons held as slaves within any state or designated part of a state, the people whereof shall then be in rebellion against the United States, shall be then, *thenceforward, and forever free..."* Therefore slaves in West Virginia and many other places were not free because the area was not in rebellion with the Union. By the way, West Virginia's June 1863 admission as a state, formally part of Virginia, was a clear violation of the Constitution Article IV, Section 3, that reads in part "but no new States shall be formed or erected within the jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the junction of two or more States, or parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as the Congress". In reality the Proclamation freed slaves where they could not be reached, and keep them in bontage where they could be free, this was true also in Virginia counties of Berkley, Accomac, Northampton,Elizabeth City, York, Princess Ann, and Norfolk including the cities of Norfolk and Portsmouth. England and other European Countries had abolished slavery and Lincoln believed they would not aid a area that was not slave free. Jack Pace / Wmsburg, Va. On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Roy Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > Ever wonder why southerners refer to "The war between the states" while > northerners called it the Civil War? > > The term "state" originally meant a sovereign political unit like France or > England. Today we more often use "countries" or "nations". When the > colonies > became independent, they were not a nation or a unit; they were 13 separate > sovereign units--that is, states like France or England--uniting > voluntarily > into a union. It took awhile for them to decide whether the states were > independent "countries" or whether there was one nation. > > "War between the states" assumes that there were two legally constituted > states, or countries, the United States of America and the Confederate > States of America. The word "between" assumes only two entities; otherwise > it would be "the war among the states". > > "Civil war" basically means a war between two factions within one state, or > country. The Union and northern historians continued to refer to it as a > civil war and assumed that the Confederacy was illegal, therefore not a > "state" and that it was a war between factions in one "state". > > In our early history there were many who assumed that we were a true > "United > States" with each state being a sovereign political unit voluntarily into a > union and could voluntarily secede from that union. They said "The United > States are..." not "The United States is..." > > Regardless of what you call that war, I think we are all happy today that > we > are one nation, not fifty, and that it is "the United States is..." > > Roy Johnson > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf > Of Jack Pace > Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:38 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PACE] Surnames and how we get them.... > > To add to the possible DNA findings, i invite you to refer to *PSA Bulletin > DEC. 1993* #106. Bruce Howard inquire page 22. > " James L. Pace, 'called Jim Pace' His true name was Isaac L. Stroud. He > was > born 6/10/1844 in Cobb County Ga., the son of Sherwood Stroud and Elizabeth > Pace. He went near Ft. Smith, Ark. in the year 1860. When to the war > between > the states started he enlisted in the CSA Army, which he deserted several > months later and joined the Union Army. He had changed his name for fear of > being captured ( that is not the real reason but the one he stated) After > the war he made his way to Atchison Co. Missouri, where he met and married > Amanda Richey on Feb. 02, 1889. By 1923 to North, Kansas City Mo. where he > died in 1929. Mrs. Amanda Pace died in 1940. James and Amanda had two > children. Lula M. PACE b. 12/15/1890 and George H. PACE b. 7/01, 1891 both > in Atchison Co. Mo. Bruce was asking help in finding additional info on > this > family. But if George H. or male decendant were a participant in the > PSA--DNA program he would prob. be on the non-connection list. > j.pace/wmsburg,va > > On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Roy Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Re the thread below regarding Jack Pace's ancestry---- > > > > I have a similar situation but not quite the same. > > > > I trace Johnsons back to my gg grandfather and hit a blank wall. The > > information was passed down by word of mouth that Johnson is Swedish. > Could > > be; there are Swedish, English, and Scottish Johnsons--and I found in > > Sweden > > that Johnson was not necessarily derived from Johannson; there are > Johnsons > > by that spelling in Sweden. > > > > DNA gives a possible reason. Possible origin of male ancestor: West > > African. > > Deep clade test seems to confirm that hypothesis. > > > > My gg grandfather was a quintessential fiddle playing, hound-dog hunting > > Appalachian hillbilly from eastern Kentucky, parents said to have been > born > > in Virginia but Kentucky was once part of Virginia, so who knows? Not > many > > Swedes in that area! > > > > But my research shows that there were very early Swedish settlers in New > > Jersey and Delaware, and there were small free black settlements among > them > > as early as the late 1600s. > > > > So if a Swedish girl or woman bore a child by a black male, that child > > would > > probably be raised Swedish and given the mother's surname. > > > > That's just speculation but it shows how that sort of thing could have > > happened. One line of my family actually has a vague story about African > > ancestry, and no one in the family today finds it objectionable, but in > > earlier times it would be covered up as any drop of African blood brought > > all the ignomy of the dreaded n-word. > > > > Jack is still a Pace, doesn't matter how he got the name, and I'm still a > > (possibly Swedish) Johnson even if the male line is west African. > > > > My closest YDNA matches are in Senegal and Gambia, West Africa. No one > else > > on the large Johnson DNA study matches with me except my nephew, whom I > had > > tested for verification. > > > > Roy Johnson > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > > Behalf > > Of Jack Pace > > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 3:46 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PACE] Succinct lines with sources > > > > Joe: Been down that path without much succes, but that is the fun of this > > game, searching for and finding new data. Thanks. J.pace > > > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Janders 45 <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Jack, > > > > > > I expect that you have already searched for daughters who survived to > > > child-bearing age but then disappeared from the record? A lot of women > > died > > > in childbirth back in those days (just walk through some old cemeteries > > and > > > look at paired female/infant graves with the same dates of death), and > a > > > young widowed husband would not have been expected to raise an infant > on > > his > > > own, so the child was often raised by the maternal grandparents. Then > > the > > > father heads out to take up land in the newly opened Ohio country and > > > contact is lost with the child. Why wouldn't that child who was the > son > > of > > > a Pace and raised by Paces go by the surname Pace? This sort of thing > > > happened a lot back in those days and I would put it at the top of my > > likely > > > scenarios list. > > > > > > Joe Anderson > > > > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:33:31 -0500> From: [email protected]> > To: > > > [email protected]> Subject: Re: [PACE] Succinct lines with sources > > > > > > > Kaarin: I have pretty well documented my line back to John of > > Middlesex,> > > > what a surprise when my DNA (one of the first submitted, and retested) > > came> > > > back indicating no connections to any Pace line, Some where along the > > line> > > > something occured that was not recorded. There are several possible > > answers> > > > but in the meanwhile we answer to the name of PACE, JackPace, > > Williamsburg,> > > > Va. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Windows LiveT: Keep your life in sync. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_0120 > > 09 > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > JackPace,Williamsburg, Virginia > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > > in > > the subject and the body of the message > > > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1892 - Release Date: > 1/13/2009 > > 8:04 PM > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > JackPace,Williamsburg, Virginia > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1892 - Release Date: 1/13/2009 > 8:04 PM > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > -- JackPace,Williamsburg, Virginia

Yes, history is my field, and I am aware of this and have been since high school history, where it was clearly taught. The Emancipation Proclamation was a psychological stroke. Lincoln could not afford to antagonize the border states. Once he said "I hope God is on our side, but I have to have Kentucky." That didn't mean that Lincoln didn't want to abolish slavery. He supported a post war amendment freeing all slaves but thought it was too early. He was always aware of what public opinion would support, and at first presented it as a war to save the union. but that was starting to wear thin The proclamation would allow the war to be presented to strongly anti-slave states as a war to end slavery, but would still allow the border states to keep their slaves and prevent them from seceding. But Lincoln's writings indicate that he felt he had set the snowball in motion rolling down the hill and it would gain momentum and size and lead to the eventual freeing of all the slaves. There were other measures taken also to keep states from seceding. Maryland stayed union because it was contrived to arrest or detain all the pro-southern supporters on the way to the capital to vote on secession. Missouri stayed union because the federals occupied the capital; my home town of Neosho was the confederate capital of Missouri, where governor Claiborne Jackson and a rump legislature voted to secede and Missouri was accepted by the confederacy as the 13th confederate state. But there was no quorum and the union controlled legislature in the state capital did not secede. As soon as the new areas came under union control, slaves there were freed. Lincoln in his earlier life was a supporter of the rule of law, and supported enforcement of the fugitive slave law even though he didn't like it. But he ws obsesses with saving the union and gave that even higher priority and bent (or broke) the law several times to achieve that goal. I have forgotten what the rationalization was for West Virginia but I think it had something to do with Virginia having forfeited its rights by being in a state of rebellion against the Constitution and the Union. Roy -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jack Pace Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 3:58 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PACE] Surnames and how we get them.... Roy: Interesting on Civil War, but did you know that Lincoln issued the Emancipation proclamation on Jan. 1, 1863 which reads," That on the first day of Jan. in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty three all persons held as slaves within any state or designated part of a state, the people whereof shall then be in rebellion against the United States, shall be then, *thenceforward, and forever free..."* Therefore slaves in West Virginia and many other places were not free because the area was not in rebellion with the Union. By the way, West Virginia's June 1863 admission as a state, formally part of Virginia, was a clear violation of the Constitution Article IV, Section 3, that reads in part "but no new States shall be formed or erected within the jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the junction of two or more States, or parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as the Congress". In reality the Proclamation freed slaves where they could not be reached, and keep them in bontage where they could be free, this was true also in Virginia counties of Berkley, Accomac, Northampton,Elizabeth City, York, Princess Ann, and Norfolk including the cities of Norfolk and Portsmouth. England and other European Countries had abolished slavery and Lincoln believed they would not aid a area that was not slave free. Jack Pace / Wmsburg, Va. On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Roy Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > Ever wonder why southerners refer to "The war between the states" while > northerners called it the Civil War? > > The term "state" originally meant a sovereign political unit like France or > England. Today we more often use "countries" or "nations". When the > colonies > became independent, they were not a nation or a unit; they were 13 separate > sovereign units--that is, states like France or England--uniting > voluntarily > into a union. It took awhile for them to decide whether the states were > independent "countries" or whether there was one nation. > > "War between the states" assumes that there were two legally constituted > states, or countries, the United States of America and the Confederate > States of America. The word "between" assumes only two entities; otherwise > it would be "the war among the states". > > "Civil war" basically means a war between two factions within one state, or > country. The Union and northern historians continued to refer to it as a > civil war and assumed that the Confederacy was illegal, therefore not a > "state" and that it was a war between factions in one "state". > > In our early history there were many who assumed that we were a true > "United > States" with each state being a sovereign political unit voluntarily into a > union and could voluntarily secede from that union. They said "The United > States are..." not "The United States is..." > > Regardless of what you call that war, I think we are all happy today that > we > are one nation, not fifty, and that it is "the United States is..." > > Roy Johnson > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf > Of Jack Pace > Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:38 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PACE] Surnames and how we get them.... > > To add to the possible DNA findings, i invite you to refer to *PSA Bulletin > DEC. 1993* #106. Bruce Howard inquire page 22. > " James L. Pace, 'called Jim Pace' His true name was Isaac L. Stroud. He > was > born 6/10/1844 in Cobb County Ga., the son of Sherwood Stroud and Elizabeth > Pace. He went near Ft. Smith, Ark. in the year 1860. When to the war > between > the states started he enlisted in the CSA Army, which he deserted several > months later and joined the Union Army. He had changed his name for fear of > being captured ( that is not the real reason but the one he stated) After > the war he made his way to Atchison Co. Missouri, where he met and married > Amanda Richey on Feb. 02, 1889. By 1923 to North, Kansas City Mo. where he > died in 1929. Mrs. Amanda Pace died in 1940. James and Amanda had two > children. Lula M. PACE b. 12/15/1890 and George H. PACE b. 7/01, 1891 both > in Atchison Co. Mo. Bruce was asking help in finding additional info on > this > family. But if George H. or male decendant were a participant in the > PSA--DNA program he would prob. be on the non-connection list. > j.pace/wmsburg,va > > On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Roy Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Re the thread below regarding Jack Pace's ancestry---- > > > > I have a similar situation but not quite the same. > > > > I trace Johnsons back to my gg grandfather and hit a blank wall. The > > information was passed down by word of mouth that Johnson is Swedish. > Could > > be; there are Swedish, English, and Scottish Johnsons--and I found in > > Sweden > > that Johnson was not necessarily derived from Johannson; there are > Johnsons > > by that spelling in Sweden. > > > > DNA gives a possible reason. Possible origin of male ancestor: West > > African. > > Deep clade test seems to confirm that hypothesis. > > > > My gg grandfather was a quintessential fiddle playing, hound-dog hunting > > Appalachian hillbilly from eastern Kentucky, parents said to have been > born > > in Virginia but Kentucky was once part of Virginia, so who knows? Not > many > > Swedes in that area! > > > > But my research shows that there were very early Swedish settlers in New > > Jersey and Delaware, and there were small free black settlements among > them > > as early as the late 1600s. > > > > So if a Swedish girl or woman bore a child by a black male, that child > > would > > probably be raised Swedish and given the mother's surname. > > > > That's just speculation but it shows how that sort of thing could have > > happened. One line of my family actually has a vague story about African > > ancestry, and no one in the family today finds it objectionable, but in > > earlier times it would be covered up as any drop of African blood brought > > all the ignomy of the dreaded n-word. > > > > Jack is still a Pace, doesn't matter how he got the name, and I'm still a > > (possibly Swedish) Johnson even if the male line is west African. > > > > My closest YDNA matches are in Senegal and Gambia, West Africa. No one > else > > on the large Johnson DNA study matches with me except my nephew, whom I > had > > tested for verification. > > > > Roy Johnson > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > > Behalf > > Of Jack Pace > > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 3:46 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PACE] Succinct lines with sources > > > > Joe: Been down that path without much succes, but that is the fun of this > > game, searching for and finding new data. Thanks. J.pace > > > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Janders 45 <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Jack, > > > > > > I expect that you have already searched for daughters who survived to > > > child-bearing age but then disappeared from the record? A lot of women > > died > > > in childbirth back in those days (just walk through some old cemeteries > > and > > > look at paired female/infant graves with the same dates of death), and > a > > > young widowed husband would not have been expected to raise an infant > on > > his > > > own, so the child was often raised by the maternal grandparents. Then > > the > > > father heads out to take up land in the newly opened Ohio country and > > > contact is lost with the child. Why wouldn't that child who was the > son > > of > > > a Pace and raised by Paces go by the surname Pace? This sort of thing > > > happened a lot back in those days and I would put it at the top of my > > likely > > > scenarios list. > > > > > > Joe Anderson > > > > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:33:31 -0500> From: [email protected]> > To: > > > [email protected]> Subject: Re: [PACE] Succinct lines with sources > > > > > > > Kaarin: I have pretty well documented my line back to John of > > Middlesex,> > > > what a surprise when my DNA (one of the first submitted, and retested) > > came> > > > back indicating no connections to any Pace line, Some where along the > > line> > > > something occured that was not recorded. There are several possible > > answers> > > > but in the meanwhile we answer to the name of PACE, JackPace, > > Williamsburg,> > > > Va. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Windows LiveT: Keep your life in sync. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_0120 > > 09 > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > JackPace,Williamsburg, Virginia > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > > in > > the subject and the body of the message > > > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1892 - Release Date: > 1/13/2009 > > 8:04 PM > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > JackPace,Williamsburg, Virginia > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1892 - Release Date: 1/13/2009 > 8:04 PM > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > -- JackPace,Williamsburg, Virginia ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1892 - Release Date: 1/13/2009 8:04 PM