It is of course not proven that John of Shropshire was John of Middlesex, but the circumstantial evidence is strong. John of Shropshire was born in Prees, Shropshire, today very near the border of what is accepted as Wales (there is no real border. Wales is part of the United Kingdom.). Roy Johnson -----Original Message----- From: pace-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:pace-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Pace Kirk Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 3:08 PM To: Pace Gordon W.; pace@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PACE] John of Middlesex Ancestry Does anyone know what town in Shropshire, England that John and his parents lived? Shropshire is like a county, correct? Thanks for any info that can be provided. Kirk Pace >>> "Gordon W. Pace" <gordonwpace@peoplepc.com> 3/12/2009 10:43:45 PM >>> For what it's worth, I have been very impressed with Gordon Thomas Pace's research and I am fairly convinced that John Pace of Middlesex Co, VA was a son of Joseph Pace and Margaret Palmer of Shropshire, England. Gordon W. Pace -----Original Message----- >From: Roy Johnson <royj@webster.edu> >Sent: Mar 12, 2009 10:28 PM >To: pace@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [PACE] John of Middlesex Ancestry > >Not prove by documentary records but supported by strong circumstantial >evidence. For the strong cirmstantial evidence go to >http://www.pacesociety.org/DNA/johngeorge.htm > >Roy Johnson > > >-----Original Message----- >From: pace-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:pace-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf >Of Michele Hayes >Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 11:46 AM >To: pace@rootsweb.com >Subject: [PACE] John of Middlesex Ancestry > >I just want to clarify this so I have the correct information in my >database. For many years it was thought that John of Middlesex was >descended from Richard Pace and Isabella Smythe. Based on DNA evidence in >recent years, we now believe that he was not from this line of Paces. But >we do not know who John's parents were, correct? I have seen assumptions >that his parents were Joseph Pace (b. 1618) and Margaret Palmer (b. 1631), >but this has not been proven (correct?). I'm sorry if this information has >been posted previously. I recently retired and now have the time to >continue my genealogy research in earnest. > >Thanks, >Michele Hayes > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in >the subject and the body of the message > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.10/1996 - Release Date: 03/11/09 >20:42:00 > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
There may be no physical border but a lot of Welshmen would argue with you that there's no border :-) Antony Pace London ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Johnson" <royj@webster.edu> To: <pace@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 4:12 AM Subject: Re: [PACE] John of Middlesex Ancestry > It is of course not proven that John of Shropshire was John of Middlesex, > but the circumstantial evidence is strong. John of Shropshire was born in > Prees, Shropshire, today very near the border of what is accepted as Wales > (there is no real border. Wales is part of the United Kingdom.). > > Roy Johnson > > -----Original Message----- > From: pace-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:pace-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf > Of Pace Kirk > Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 3:08 PM > To: Pace Gordon W.; pace@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PACE] John of Middlesex Ancestry > > Does anyone know what town in Shropshire, England that John and his > parents > lived? Shropshire is like a county, correct? Thanks for any info that > can > be provided. > > Kirk Pace > >>>> "Gordon W. Pace" <gordonwpace@peoplepc.com> 3/12/2009 10:43:45 PM >>> > > For what it's worth, I have been very impressed with Gordon Thomas Pace's > research and I am fairly convinced that John Pace of Middlesex Co, VA was > a > son of Joseph Pace and Margaret Palmer of Shropshire, England. > Gordon W. Pace > > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Roy Johnson <royj@webster.edu> >>Sent: Mar 12, 2009 10:28 PM >>To: pace@rootsweb.com >>Subject: Re: [PACE] John of Middlesex Ancestry >> >>Not prove by documentary records but supported by strong circumstantial >>evidence. For the strong cirmstantial evidence go to >>http://www.pacesociety.org/DNA/johngeorge.htm >> >>Roy Johnson >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: pace-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:pace-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf >>Of Michele Hayes >>Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 11:46 AM >>To: pace@rootsweb.com >>Subject: [PACE] John of Middlesex Ancestry >> >>I just want to clarify this so I have the correct information in my >>database. For many years it was thought that John of Middlesex was >>descended from Richard Pace and Isabella Smythe. Based on DNA evidence in >>recent years, we now believe that he was not from this line of Paces. But >>we do not know who John's parents were, correct? I have seen assumptions >>that his parents were Joseph Pace (b. 1618) and Margaret Palmer (b. 1631), >>but this has not been proven (correct?). I'm sorry if this information > has >>been posted previously. I recently retired and now have the time to >>continue my genealogy research in earnest. >> >>Thanks, >>Michele Hayes >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >>in >>the subject and the body of the message >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.10/1996 - Release Date: 03/11/09 >>20:42:00 >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > > ________________________________________ > PeoplePC Online > A better way to Internet > http://www.peoplepc.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message
Where do they place that border? The border has changed frequently over time and as I understand was never very exact. I have a history of Wales and the mamp shows it all the way out to the river Severn, quite a bit east of Offa's Dike if I have my geography straight. That would include most of Shropshire and the former Border Marches. This is off the top of my head, I didn't check my resources, but I have read the history of Wales. Roy -----Original Message----- From: pace-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:pace-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of ant@antnet.net Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 3:53 PM To: pace@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PACE] John of Middlesex Ancestry There may be no physical border but a lot of Welshmen would argue with you that there's no border :-) Antony Pace London ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Johnson" <royj@webster.edu> To: <pace@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 4:12 AM Subject: Re: [PACE] John of Middlesex Ancestry > It is of course not proven that John of Shropshire was John of Middlesex, > but the circumstantial evidence is strong. John of Shropshire was born in > Prees, Shropshire, today very near the border of what is accepted as Wales > (there is no real border. Wales is part of the United Kingdom.). > > Roy Johnson > > -----Original Message----- > From: pace-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:pace-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf > Of Pace Kirk > Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 3:08 PM > To: Pace Gordon W.; pace@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PACE] John of Middlesex Ancestry > > Does anyone know what town in Shropshire, England that John and his > parents > lived? Shropshire is like a county, correct? Thanks for any info that > can > be provided. > > Kirk Pace > >>>> "Gordon W. Pace" <gordonwpace@peoplepc.com> 3/12/2009 10:43:45 PM >>> > > For what it's worth, I have been very impressed with Gordon Thomas Pace's > research and I am fairly convinced that John Pace of Middlesex Co, VA was > a > son of Joseph Pace and Margaret Palmer of Shropshire, England. > Gordon W. Pace > > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Roy Johnson <royj@webster.edu> >>Sent: Mar 12, 2009 10:28 PM >>To: pace@rootsweb.com >>Subject: Re: [PACE] John of Middlesex Ancestry >> >>Not prove by documentary records but supported by strong circumstantial >>evidence. For the strong cirmstantial evidence go to >>http://www.pacesociety.org/DNA/johngeorge.htm >> >>Roy Johnson >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: pace-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:pace-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf >>Of Michele Hayes >>Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 11:46 AM >>To: pace@rootsweb.com >>Subject: [PACE] John of Middlesex Ancestry >> >>I just want to clarify this so I have the correct information in my >>database. For many years it was thought that John of Middlesex was >>descended from Richard Pace and Isabella Smythe. Based on DNA evidence in >>recent years, we now believe that he was not from this line of Paces. But >>we do not know who John's parents were, correct? I have seen assumptions >>that his parents were Joseph Pace (b. 1618) and Margaret Palmer (b. 1631), >>but this has not been proven (correct?). I'm sorry if this information > has >>been posted previously. I recently retired and now have the time to >>continue my genealogy research in earnest. >> >>Thanks, >>Michele Hayes >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >>in >>the subject and the body of the message >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.10/1996 - Release Date: 03/11/09 >>20:42:00 >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > > ________________________________________ > PeoplePC Online > A better way to Internet > http://www.peoplepc.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
ant@antnet.net wrote: > There may be no physical border but a lot of Welshmen would argue with you > that there's no border :-) > Antony Pace > London Yes, most Welshman would surely inform you there's a distinction between Wales and England, if a border was the question it would likely come down to an arbitrary number of miles EAST of Offa's Dyke Path, depending on where you were standing along the 80 mile length and wanted to decide if you were in England or Wales. I have the AA Road Atlas here, 4 miles to 1 inch, town names in Welsh are distictive, looking at them, several miles EAST of Offa's Dyke Path, towards England, the names are unmistakenly Welsh. Chepstow (south end) on the Bristol Channel, northward about 80 miles to Prestatyn (north end) just west of the River Dee estuary, near the cities of Chester and Liverpool. Offa's Dyke Path National Trail This trail follows the remains of an 8th century earthworks along the Welsh border from the Severn estuary to the Irish Sea. For a map and story, go to: http://www.britainexpress.com/countryside/national-trails/offas-dyke.htm You'll see Bishop's Castle. This is the parish where Margaret Palmer's people came from. There were also Paces there. http://www.pacefamilyhistory.info/records/palmer.htm#bish The National Church of Wales did not allow the LDS to come in and photograph their parish registers, I read somewhere. This is interesting. We have THOMAS PACE who was Bishop of Bangor, in north Wales and abbot of Beaulieu Abbey in Hampshire. He died 13 Aug 1533 and is buried at BEAULIEU Hampshire. The last abbot of Beaulieu was Abbot Thomas Stevens, elected in 1536. Then followed Dissolution of the Monasteries. Beaulieu was granted by Henry VIII to the Montague family who still are there today. http://www.beaulieu.co.uk/beaulieu/index http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaulieu_Abbey http://www.pacefamilyhistory.info/pedigree.htm His heart, as was the custom, was removed and taken to BANGOR Cathedral in north WALES http://www.churchinwales.org.uk/bangor/diocese/ history of the diocese Bangor is the most ancient of the Welsh dioceses: it is the oldest territorial diocese in the United Kingdom and its Cathedral site is the oldest in continuous and unbroken use. http://www.britainexpress.com/wales/tour/anglesey/index.htm This ancient town began in 525AD with the building of a monastery. St. Deiniol and his monks came to Bangor in 525 A.D. and built the first church. Bangor, an historic university and cathedral city, lies at the eastern entrance of the Menai Strait. Gord Pace, Ontario