I seem to recall there is/was some question of the wife of John of Middlesex. Was she Elizabeth Newsome? And is that proven or was that a question? Would her line lead to Sheppard and Spencer? I haven't done research for a long time, but have recently been browsing my gen. lines to extend them further.

Roy, Thank you for all you have done, and continue to do, for the Pace family research, especially in the DNA area. It is amazing how much the PSA DNA project has contributed to our understanding of family relationship. We have come a long way since we started the DNA project in 2001-2002, and very fortunate that you agreed to manage the project. We also thank Rebecca Christensen for her many contributions to the DNA project. Her expertise in interpreting the results has proven invaluable. Again, thanks to both of you. Bob Pace On Dec 1, 2009, at 8:48 PM, Roy Johnson wrote: > I have been working on improving and better organizing the DNA > charts. I > have started with group 3, separating group 3a from 3b with a row > showing > the DYS numbers for easier reading, grouping the descendents from a > common > ancestor and using colors to separate them, and giving a more complete > lineage in each case (thanks to Rebecca for the suggestion). This > makes for > easier analysis. For example, one interesting occurrence is in 15548 > and > 163053, both descendents of William Pace + Ruth Lambert and whose > common > ancestor is Harvey Pace. > > > > They both have a mutation in DYS 385a. It appears that this mutation > occurred at Harvey Pace because (a) none of the other lineages up to > and > including Harvey's father have that mutation, and (b) these two lines > diverge immediately after Harvey, so the mutation probably did not > occur > after Harvey. I say probably because there might be a rare case of two > separate mutations after Harvey that just happened to coincide. > > > > However, this is helpful information. If we get more Harvey > descendents > through different sons, it would verify this hypothesis, and it > could help > to verify the lineage of some who might not be sure or even to > provide a > clue to the lineage of those who do not have a tree going back that > far. > > > > I have received numerous suggestions on improving the pages, some > worth > following, some would not work. Quite a few came from a lady named > Ellen. > The discussion became so detailed that I did not feel it belonged on > the > list so I tried to go off list, but Ellen refused in a rather caustic > posting that she does not do "back door" interchanges. She and I are > both > stubborn people and I will not discuss matters going into minute > detail on > the list, as I do not think it is pertinent to all on the list. So our > collaboration is over, but I have filed the better suggestions and > will act > on some of them. > > > > The DNA pages have sort of "just grown" and can stand some > reorganizing and > clarifying. Doing so will take some time but I will peck away at it > little > by little. > > > > Glad to hear any suggestions. > > > > The changes are on the group 3 page at > http://www.pacesociety.org/DNA/Group3.htm > > > > Have a look and give me your reactions. > > > > Roy Johnson > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PACE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

No evidence she was or was not a Newsome. The conclusion was based on the fact that John and Elizabeth named a son Newsome Pace. There can be all sorts of reasons for giving someone that name--a friend, an admired person, whatever. I am also a John of Middlesex descendent and I do not list a last name for Elizabeth. Roy Johnson -----Original Message----- From: pace-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:pace-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Compurose@cs.com Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:37 PM To: PACE@rootsweb.com Subject: [PACE] John Pace-Elizabeth Newsome I seem to recall there is/was some question of the wife of John of Middlesex. Was she Elizabeth Newsome? And is that proven or was that a question? Would her line lead to Sheppard and Spencer? I haven't done research for a long time, but have recently been browsing my gen. lines to extend them further. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

You are right and I apologize. I had some directed at me but I should not have responded in kind. Thoughtless of me. I did give the person in question much credit for some good suggestions. Roy Johnson -----Original Message----- From: pace-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:pace-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of pacerchrd@aol.comI

In my opinion, personal comments about other people also do not belong on the list.

I have been working on improving and better organizing the DNA charts. I have started with group 3, separating group 3a from 3b with a row showing the DYS numbers for easier reading, grouping the descendents from a common ancestor and using colors to separate them, and giving a more complete lineage in each case (thanks to Rebecca for the suggestion). This makes for easier analysis. For example, one interesting occurrence is in 15548 and 163053, both descendents of William Pace + Ruth Lambert and whose common ancestor is Harvey Pace. They both have a mutation in DYS 385a. It appears that this mutation occurred at Harvey Pace because (a) none of the other lineages up to and including Harvey's father have that mutation, and (b) these two lines diverge immediately after Harvey, so the mutation probably did not occur after Harvey. I say probably because there might be a rare case of two separate mutations after Harvey that just happened to coincide. However, this is helpful information. If we get more Harvey descendents through different sons, it would verify this hypothesis, and it could help to verify the lineage of some who might not be sure or even to provide a clue to the lineage of those who do not have a tree going back that far. I have received numerous suggestions on improving the pages, some worth following, some would not work. Quite a few came from a lady named Ellen. The discussion became so detailed that I did not feel it belonged on the list so I tried to go off list, but Ellen refused in a rather caustic posting that she does not do "back door" interchanges. She and I are both stubborn people and I will not discuss matters going into minute detail on the list, as I do not think it is pertinent to all on the list. So our collaboration is over, but I have filed the better suggestions and will act on some of them. The DNA pages have sort of "just grown" and can stand some reorganizing and clarifying. Doing so will take some time but I will peck away at it little by little. Glad to hear any suggestions. The changes are on the group 3 page at http://www.pacesociety.org/DNA/Group3.htm Have a look and give me your reactions. Roy Johnson

John, The way I understood this while I was working on the deeds in that area, is that Beaver Dam Swamp in Nash was called Cain's Mill Swamp at an early date and the name was perhaps interchangeable with Beaver Dam for sometime. It appears that after James Cain died, the mill ceased to be used, probably resulting in the name vanishing from present day maps. The other thing is that there is another Beaver Dam Swamp north of Fishing Creek that flows into Marsh Swamp while it is still running more or less north to south. Paces lived [or at least owned land] on this Beaver Dam Swamp also. I have done some plats in that area. Shirley Graham In a message dated 11/23/2009 9:21:04 A.M. Central Standard Time, pjohndeb@verizon.net writes: I am seeking opinions from those who are familiar with Nash & Edgecombe Co, NC land deeds etc near John & Richard Pace who had land on Beaver Dam Swamp in 1759. There are many deeds in the area referring to Cain's Mill Swamp where James Cain had a mill. The name Beaver Dam Swamp still exists today and can be seen on modern maps; however Cain's Mill Swamp does not. It is my belief that Cain's Mill Swamp and Beaver Dam Swamp are one in the same judging from following abstract: Nash Deed 1-57 James Cain of Nash Co. to James Wall 6 Par 1779 for 160 pds 160 ac on south side Fishing Creek at the mouth of Beaver Dam Swamp adj Nathaniel Powell including the mill. Wit. Jonas Williams and James Merritt. I am not that familiar with the land in that area so I welcome opinions from those that are. Thanks John Pace ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Roy Johnson wrote: > Locations help. Where were your parents married? Where were you born? A > search of the records is probably a better choice than trying to find Pam > Cotton. > > Roy Johnson > > -----Original Message----- > From: pace-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:pace-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf > Of Jocelyn Bates > Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 5:11 PM > To: pace@rootsweb.com > Subject: [PACE] Pacefamily tree > > Hello , > I`m trying to locate anyone who can help me fill in the gaps in my family > tree. > I am Jocelyn Bates nee Pace daughter of Charles Pace and Ida Ackerley who > were married 05/12/1928. I was born 20/05 /1932. I stumbled across a > reference to my parents marriage by a Pam Cotton ,but so far have not been > able to locate her she also mentioned that my father had been brought up by > the Grocott family whilst his parents went to Canada > I do hope you can help me > Jocelyn Bates > > jbates@waldonet.net.mt Yes, Location a clue. Jocelyn is writing from Malta although her names seem Anglesized, says her parents were married in Stoke. If that's England, Stoke is the start of about 3 dozen place names in my AA Road Atlas. I have written to the Cotton One Name Study Guild chap in Burlington, Ontario. His ancestry goes back to Kenilworth, Warwickshire. Maybe another clue. I have PACE-ARCH connections there also and a Kenilworth web page. Obscurity yes, isn't it fun? It connects with my PACE-ARCH people and the JOSEPH ARCH whose mother was a PACE. HOSEPH was a farm boy, Methodist preacher, Union man, MP. http://www.pacefamilyhistory.info/uk/barford.htm He founded the National Agricultural Workers' Union 1873. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Arch One PACE descendent has PACE relatives both in Kenilworth England and PACE in Malta. Sound like a merry-go-round. Since she said the Pam Cotton knew about her parents, maybe the Cotton ONS Guild chap can help. I'll phone him and talk as I'm also from Burlington/Hamilton where he teaches the Mormon Genealogy programme PF5. His web site is interesting and reveals a good atmosphere. Quite a revolving puzzle, for sure, but isn't that why we are fascinated with this? Gord Pace Maybe the PACE-ARCH puzzle of JOSEPH ARCH, Member of Parliament and founder of the largest trade union in England can come clearer. I see a PACE from Exhall below. That's where my grandmother's ARCH family was from. The TREPASS name has connections to PACE in Malta too. Confusing? Joseph PACE b 1802 Kenilworth - Comb manufacturer + Elizabeth - b 1805 Coventry * Hannah PACE - Chr 7 Jan 1827 Kenilworth 1851-worked for solicitor Edward Draper, the Hermitage,Kenilworth + William HINDE - m 15 Nov 1852 Kenilworth wid by 1881 o Rose HINDE b 1862 Kenilworth o Bell HINDE b 1870 Kenilworth * Mary PACE - Chr 26 Dec 1827 Kenilworth + James Clegg SMITH - m 20 May 1854 Kenilworth * Henry Edward PACE - b 3 Oct 1830 Combmaker journeyman widower 1881 + Mary SELMAN - b 1830 Cricklade Wiltshire worked at Globe Inn Castle End m 17 Aug 1851 Kenilworth o Henry Edward PACE - b 16 Nov 1852 Kenilworth + Eliza HARRIS - m 7 Jul 1870 Kenilworth o Ellen PACE - b 09 Apr 1854 Kenilworth o Lizzie PACE - b 11 May 1856 Kenilworth o Mary PACE - b 08 Aug 1858 Kenilworth o Sarah Ann PACE - b 1860 Exhall WAR o Florence PACE - b 1867 Birmingham * Eliza PACE - 3 Mar 1833 was Milliner & Dress Maker Kenilworth * William PACE - 3 Jul 1836 * Sarah Emma PACE - 28 Jun 1840 + Walter TREPESS - m 26 Aug 1861 Kenilworth READ LETTER - descendent - return with BACK button o William Walter TREPESS - 4 May 1864 Birm. St Stephens o Edith Ann TREPESS - 19 Mar 1865 Birm. St Stephens * Ann PACE - Chr 23 Mar 1845 Kenilworth + Frederick BAKER - b 1845 Coventry m 26 Dec 1868 Kenilworth

Roy, wouldn't it be really great if Jocelyn Pace-Bates had a brother to do DNA? This may be somebody's big break. Addie Pace-Glasgow

Why didn't I think of this? I just got an email suggesting a DNA test in the Pace DNA study. The DNA study uses the Y chromosome to trace a surname, which is passed only male to male, so it must be a Pace male to take the test. Jocelyn, do you have a brother or uncle who could do the test? You can read about it at http://www.pacesociety.org.DNA/ and email me if you have more questions. If funding is a problem, there is usually help available. The results would not give specific ancestors but should tell which general line of Paces you are in and who else in the study is related to you. Roy Johnson Pac DNA project coordinator royj@webster.edu -----Original Message----- From: pace-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:pace-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jocelyn Bates Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 5:11 PM To: pace@rootsweb.com Subject: [PACE] Pacefamily tree Hello , I`m trying to locate anyone who can help me fill in the gaps in my family tree. I am Jocelyn Bates nee Pace daughter of Charles Pace and Ida Ackerley who were married 05/12/1928. I was born 20/05 /1932. I stumbled across a reference to my parents marriage by a Pam Cotton ,but so far have not been able to locate her she also mentioned that my father had been brought up by the Grocott family whilst his parents went to Canada I do hope you can help me Jocelyn Bates jbates@waldonet.net.mt ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Locations help. Where were your parents married? Where were you born? A search of the records is probably a better choice than trying to find Pam Cotton. Roy Johnson -----Original Message----- From: pace-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:pace-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jocelyn Bates Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 5:11 PM To: pace@rootsweb.com Subject: [PACE] Pacefamily tree Hello , I`m trying to locate anyone who can help me fill in the gaps in my family tree. I am Jocelyn Bates nee Pace daughter of Charles Pace and Ida Ackerley who were married 05/12/1928. I was born 20/05 /1932. I stumbled across a reference to my parents marriage by a Pam Cotton ,but so far have not been able to locate her she also mentioned that my father had been brought up by the Grocott family whilst his parents went to Canada I do hope you can help me Jocelyn Bates jbates@waldonet.net.mt ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Snip << From: pace-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:pace-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Trudi Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:47 AM To: PACE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PACE] robert william pace My father was Robert William petrus pace from south Africa.>>> I found this on www.pacefamilyhistory.info It might be a clue. This is Gordon T. Pace's site. Subject: PACE - South Africa Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 From: "ronaldnoeline" ronaldnoeline@wanadoo.nl Dear Gordon, thank you so much for the information. I have the following, from a family bible: MY PATERNAL GRANDFATHER: ROBERT HENDRIK PETRUS PACE, BORN 17/06/1891 - SWELLENDAM - CAPE PROVINCE, SOUTH AFRICA, died 26/01/1969 - OUDTSHOORN, SOUTH AFRICA, SON OF HENRIK PACE (Date of birth unknown,) died 18/02/1931 - & MARIA MAGDALENA LINDEN (DATE OF BIRTH UNKNOWN) DIED 27/01/1916 He married Gertina Petronella Johanna RADEMEYER on 29 April 1912, place unknown, (her details: born 15/07/1892 - died 06/03/1978.) She was the daughter of Gert Petrus Johannes Rademeyer - d.o.b. unknown died on 22/04/1928 and Johanna Katrina CLASSEN born 1852 died 03/01/1953 They settled in Van Wykskraal District, near Oudtshoorn, where they raised 10 children. My father Johannes Rademeyer PACE was born on 18 November 1929. My dad's sister, Katrina Gertha d.o.b. 25/07/1919 married Edwin DIXON in 1944 (Oudtshoorn) and subsequently left South Africa to settle somewhere in Newcastle, U.K. Their children are Edwina, Cathleen, Robert, Lavinia, Gerald and David, although I cannot verify the details. She died approx. 1998? How can I continue with my search? I am (as you MUST have noticed), a novice. I have also forwarded the details to my brother in South Africa. Thank you so much for the information. Best wishes Noeline email - Noeline Netherlands Noeline's email ronaldnoeline@wanadoo.nl Roy Johnson -----Original Message----- From: pace-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:pace-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Trudi Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:47 AM To: PACE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PACE] robert william pace My father was Robert William petrus pace from south Africa. He died when I was young and should now be at the age of 85. His parents live in calitzdorp in south Africa. Can anybody please help me with more information about his family tree, he had a sister by name Cathleen or charmaine and a brother john I think. His mothers name must be gladys as is my first name. Thank you Trudi karsten pace ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Jocelyn, Do you know where your parents were married? Where were you born? I have a Charles Pace in my tree that was born in 1910 in Michigan that might fit (a lot of these Pace's came to Michigan from Canada), but I also see a Charles L. Pace that was married to an Ida in Iowa in the 1930 Census. They had a daughter named Merle(?) that was born about 1923. Does that fit at all? Scott --- On Thu, 11/19/09, Jocelyn Bates <jbates@waldonet.net.mt> wrote: > From: Jocelyn Bates <jbates@waldonet.net.mt> > Subject: [PACE] Pacefamily tree > To: pace@rootsweb.com > Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 3:10 PM > Hello , > I`m trying to locate anyone who can help me fill in the > gaps in my family tree. > I am Jocelyn Bates nee Pace daughter of Charles Pace and > Ida Ackerley who > were married 05/12/1928. I was born 20/05 /1932. I stumbled > across a > reference to my parents marriage by a Pam Cotton ,but so > far have not been > able to locate her she also mentioned that my father had > been brought up by > the Grocott family whilst his parents went to Canada > I do hope you can help me > Jocelyn Bates > > jbates@waldonet.net.mt > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PACE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message >

I am seeking opinions from those who are familiar with Nash & Edgecombe Co, NC land deeds etc near John & Richard Pace who had land on Beaver Dam Swamp in 1759. There are many deeds in the area referring to Cain's Mill Swamp where James Cain had a mill. The name Beaver Dam Swamp still exists today and can be seen on modern maps; however Cain's Mill Swamp does not. It is my belief that Cain's Mill Swamp and Beaver Dam Swamp are one in the same judging from following abstract: Nash Deed 1-57 James Cain of Nash Co. to James Wall 6 Par 1779 for 160 pds 160 ac on south side Fishing Creek at the mouth of Beaver Dam Swamp adj Nathaniel Powell including the mill. Wit. Jonas Williams and James Merritt. I am not that familiar with the land in that area so I welcome opinions from those that are. Thanks John Pace

Roy, yes, I' m on this list-You have an old email address of years past Larry Pace GENEALOGY LPace1943@comcast.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Johnson" <royj@webster.edu> To: <pace@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 7:10 PM Subject: [PACE] Email bounced >I tried to send an email to Larry Pace, larrypace43@attbi.com, and it came > back as an error. Larry, are you on the list? > Roy Johnson

I tried to send an email to Larry Pace, larrypace43@attbi.com, and it came back as an error. Larry, are you on the list? Roy Johnson

Thanks Roy, your changes were helpful. John -------------------------------------------------- From: "Roy Johnson" <royj@webster.edu> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 1:33 PM To: <pace@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [PACE] Burrell Pace DNA > The DNA site is in need of an overhaul but I just haven't had time to get > it > done. Check out the chart again; I did make some quick changes to the > Burrell listing. I changed it to Burrell/John/Sarah. I need to recheck the > groupings and also reorganize the Donors page to put the sub groups > together > and maybe set up a menu at the top. Keep in mind that the listing > submitted > by each donor is just a click away from the chart by clicking the kit > number. But I agree that more information on the chart itself would help, > and I'll work on it. > > I will be happy to add Rebecca's chart to the DNA pages, and add the other > donors that she says are not in the charts. I will peck away at this as I > have time. Unfortunately I will be on the farm for five weeks in > December-January with poorer Internet access and less time. Your > suggestions > for improvements are welcome; I already have some in mind. Thanks for this > interchange. All things can improve. > > Roy Johnson > > -----Original Message----- > From: pace-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:pace-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf > Of Rebecca Christensen > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:52 AM > To: pace@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [PACE] Burrell Pace DNA > > Many of the Group 3a results are not labeled under the earliest proven > ancestor but rather the common ancestor from whom the participants > descend. For example, William Pace (wife Ruth Lambert) is not the > earliest > known ancestor for the line. He is the son of William Pace (Sr.) - from a > multitude of records, although there is no one "single" document that > provides direct evidence, but there is a multiplicity of records that > provide indirect evidence of the father/son relationship and their > relationship to the Lamberts. William Pace's brother George is listed in > William (Sr.)'s will along with the other children from William (Sr's) > second marriage. We have a DNA participant from George that is listed > separately on the DNA chart online from the William Pace/Ruth Lambert line > results, but George and William share the same father. All of the William > Pace/Ruth Lambert results are listed with William Pace/Ruth Lambert as the > *common* ancestor > not *earliest* ancestor. We also have results through more than one son of > William Pace and Ruth Lambert which is also not obvious from the chart. > I never use the charts on the public PSA website for DNA > interpretation > - there just isn't enough lineage information on the same page as the DNA > results to really interpret the DNA results to full advantage. I'm for > adding more lineage identification rather than making it more generic and > losing the information that we currently have showing the common ancestor > of > a group - such as the Burrell label for the participants who descend from > Burrell. If there is currently a Burrell participant with the generic > John/Sarah label, it would be better to label it Burrell rather than > changing all of the Burrell group to John/Sarah. > > Rebecca Christensen > > > > --- On Sat, 11/21/09, John <pjohndeb@verizon.net> wrote: > > From: John <pjohndeb@verizon.net> > Subject: Re: [PACE] Burrell Pace DNA > To: pace@rootsweb.com > Date: Saturday, November 21, 2009, 11:11 AM > > I was under the impression the chart was labeled & grouped to display the > earliest proven ancestor, i.e. for my line Jesse Pace, since no proof > exists > > showing who Jesse's parents were. I have no problem with either method; > however, consistency would be nice. There is another Burrell descendent, > #88349, listed under John & Sarah and not with the other Burrell group. > > John Pace > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Rebecca Christensen" <rchristen@sbcglobal.net> > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:25 AM > To: <pace@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [PACE] Burrell Pace DNA > >> I'm not sure what you mean by listed separately and not grouped with the >> John/Sarah results. The chart as I see it this morning has the Burrell >> results listed right below the generic listings of the John and Sarah >> results. The ones labeled Burrell are much more informative than the >> generic "John/Sarah" labelled results. It is important to know which son >> of a particular common ancestor that each participant descends through to >> be able get the most of the DNA results. In fact, it is important to know >> exactly where each of the lineages branch from a common ancestor for >> correct DNA results interpretation. That is why I first created my >> separate spreadsheets of DNA results to help with the interpretation of >> the results. The generic labels of William/Lambert and Richard/Cain and >> the Jesse labels hide necessary information for correct DNA >> interpretation. For example, the generic labels for the Jesse? lineage >> hide the fact that the **DNA results** >> can be used to prove descent from Richmond Pace versus descending from >> his > >> brothers Simeon or John. There is a DNA change that occurred with >> Richmond Pace that his brothers do not have. Through a very careful >> selection of participants, this DNA change has been proven to have >> occurred with Richmond Pace and not more recently. To show that >> information, it is important to show that the two Richmond Pace >> participants are descendants of two of his sons - John R. and William. >> So the labels should be Jesse?-Richmond-John R and >> Jesse?-Richmond-William - not the generic Jesse. This important >> discovery > >> was found through the hard work of Darlene to find the 2nd participant >> through a different son of Richmond Pace as we were trying to determine >> whether the DNA change occurred with Richmond Pace or at a more recent >> generation. This result was not found "by accident" but by finding an >> appropriate second test participant for the line for testing. >> >> The spreadsheets I have been creating and posting on a yearly basis are >> presented each year at the Pace reunion and published in the fall >> quarterly. They are also available separately in the members only area >> of > >> the PSA website (in the Bulletins section) for download which is the >> easiest way to read them as they are pdf files and can be zoomed >> in/zoomed > >> out. I don't have any problem with the spreadsheets being posted on the >> public Pace DNA website, they just have never been placed on that >> website. > >> There are also additional DNA results from the William Pace/Ruth Lambert >> line that are included on my spreadsheets but not included with the FTDNA >> results on the PSA page. These results are for participants who tested >> at > >> SMGF rather than FTDNA. >> >> Rebecca Christensen >> >> >> --- On Sat, 11/21/09, John <pjohndeb@verizon.net> wrote: >> >> From: John <pjohndeb@verizon.net> >> Subject: [PACE] Burrell Pace DNA >> To: Pace@rootsweb.com >> Date: Saturday, November 21, 2009, 8:30 AM >> >> I was reviewing Pace DNA chart on the Pace website and noticed that >> Burrell Pace descendents are listed separately from John and Sarah Pace >> of > >> Surry, NC. It is my understanding that Burrell is a proven son of John >> and > >> Sarah, so I was wondering if anyone on the list knows of any reason that >> Burrell descendents should not be grouped with John and Sarah Pace for >> the > >> purpose of simplification. >> Thanks >> John Pace >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

The DNA site is in need of an overhaul but I just haven't had time to get it done. Check out the chart again; I did make some quick changes to the Burrell listing. I changed it to Burrell/John/Sarah. I need to recheck the groupings and also reorganize the Donors page to put the sub groups together and maybe set up a menu at the top. Keep in mind that the listing submitted by each donor is just a click away from the chart by clicking the kit number. But I agree that more information on the chart itself would help, and I'll work on it. I will be happy to add Rebecca's chart to the DNA pages, and add the other donors that she says are not in the charts. I will peck away at this as I have time. Unfortunately I will be on the farm for five weeks in December-January with poorer Internet access and less time. Your suggestions for improvements are welcome; I already have some in mind. Thanks for this interchange. All things can improve. Roy Johnson -----Original Message----- From: pace-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:pace-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Rebecca Christensen Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:52 AM To: pace@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PACE] Burrell Pace DNA    Many of the Group 3a results are not labeled under the earliest proven ancestor but rather  the common ancestor from whom the participants descend.  For example, William Pace (wife Ruth Lambert) is not the earliest known ancestor for the line.  He is the son of William Pace (Sr.) - from a multitude of records, although there is no one "single" document that provides direct evidence, but there is a multiplicity of records that provide indirect evidence of the father/son relationship and their relationship to the Lamberts.   William Pace's brother George is listed in William (Sr.)'s will along with the other children from William (Sr's) second marriage.  We have a DNA participant from George that is listed separately on the DNA chart online from the William Pace/Ruth Lambert line results, but George and William share the same father. All of the William Pace/Ruth Lambert results are listed with William Pace/Ruth Lambert as the *common* ancestor not *earliest* ancestor. We also have results through more than one son of William Pace and Ruth Lambert which is also not obvious from the chart.     I never use the charts on the public PSA website for DNA interpretation - there just isn't enough lineage information on the same page as the DNA results to really interpret the DNA results to full advantage.  I'm for adding more lineage identification rather than making it more generic and losing the information that we currently have showing the common ancestor of a group - such as the Burrell label for the participants who descend from Burrell.  If there is currently a Burrell participant with the generic John/Sarah label, it would be better to label it Burrell rather than changing all of the Burrell group to John/Sarah. Rebecca Christensen --- On Sat, 11/21/09, John <pjohndeb@verizon.net> wrote: From: John <pjohndeb@verizon.net> Subject: Re: [PACE] Burrell Pace DNA To: pace@rootsweb.com Date: Saturday, November 21, 2009, 11:11 AM I was under the impression the chart was labeled & grouped to display the earliest proven ancestor, i.e. for my line Jesse Pace, since no proof exists showing who Jesse's parents were. I have no problem with either method; however, consistency would be nice. There is another Burrell descendent, #88349, listed under John & Sarah and not with the other Burrell group. John Pace -------------------------------------------------- From: "Rebecca Christensen" <rchristen@sbcglobal.net> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:25 AM To: <pace@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [PACE] Burrell Pace DNA > I'm not sure what you mean by listed separately and not grouped with the > John/Sarah results.   The chart as I see it this morning has the Burrell > results listed right below the generic listings of the John and Sarah > results.  The ones labeled Burrell are much more informative than the > generic "John/Sarah" labelled results.  It is important to know which son > of a particular common ancestor that each participant descends through to > be able get the most of the DNA results. In fact, it is important to know > exactly where each of the lineages branch from a common ancestor for > correct DNA results interpretation. That is why I first created my > separate spreadsheets of DNA results to help with the interpretation of > the results.   The generic labels of William/Lambert and Richard/Cain and > the Jesse labels hide necessary information for correct DNA > interpretation.  For example, the generic labels for the Jesse? lineage > hide the fact that the **DNA results** > can be used to prove descent from Richmond Pace versus descending from his > brothers Simeon or John.  There is a DNA change that occurred with > Richmond Pace that his brothers do not have.  Through a very careful > selection of participants, this DNA change has been proven to have > occurred with Richmond Pace and not more recently.  To show that > information, it is important to show that the two Richmond Pace > participants are descendants of two of his sons  - John R. and William. > So the labels should be Jesse?-Richmond-John R and > Jesse?-Richmond-William - not the generic Jesse.  This important discovery > was found through the hard work of Darlene to find the 2nd participant > through a different son of Richmond Pace as we were trying to determine > whether the DNA change occurred with Richmond Pace or at a more recent > generation.   This result was not found "by accident" but by finding an > appropriate second test participant for the line for testing. > > The spreadsheets I have been creating and posting on a yearly basis are > presented each year at the Pace reunion and published in the fall > quarterly.  They are also available separately in the members only area of > the PSA website (in the Bulletins section) for download which is the > easiest way to read them as they are pdf files and can be zoomed in/zoomed > out.  I don't have any problem with the spreadsheets being posted on the > public Pace DNA website, they just have never been placed on that website. > There are also additional DNA results from the William Pace/Ruth Lambert > line that are included on my spreadsheets but not included with the FTDNA > results on the PSA page.  These results are for participants who tested at > SMGF rather than FTDNA. > > Rebecca Christensen > > > --- On Sat, 11/21/09, John <pjohndeb@verizon.net> wrote: > > From: John <pjohndeb@verizon.net> > Subject: [PACE] Burrell Pace DNA > To: Pace@rootsweb.com > Date: Saturday, November 21, 2009, 8:30 AM > > I was reviewing Pace DNA chart on the Pace website and noticed that > Burrell Pace descendents are listed separately from John and Sarah Pace of > Surry, NC. It is my understanding that Burrell is a proven son of John and > Sarah, so I was wondering if anyone on the list knows of any reason that > Burrell descendents should not be grouped with John and Sarah Pace for the > purpose of simplification. > Thanks > John Pace > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I was under the impression the chart was labeled & grouped to display the earliest proven ancestor, i.e. for my line Jesse Pace, since no proof exists showing who Jesse's parents were. I have no problem with either method; however, consistency would be nice. There is another Burrell descendent, #88349, listed under John & Sarah and not with the other Burrell group. John Pace -------------------------------------------------- From: "Rebecca Christensen" <rchristen@sbcglobal.net> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:25 AM To: <pace@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [PACE] Burrell Pace DNA > I'm not sure what you mean by listed separately and not grouped with the > John/Sarah results. The chart as I see it this morning has the Burrell > results listed right below the generic listings of the John and Sarah > results. The ones labeled Burrell are much more informative than the > generic "John/Sarah" labelled results. It is important to know which son > of a particular common ancestor that each participant descends through to > be able get the most of the DNA results. In fact, it is important to know > exactly where each of the lineages branch from a common ancestor for > correct DNA results interpretation. That is why I first created my > separate spreadsheets of DNA results to help with the interpretation of > the results. The generic labels of William/Lambert and Richard/Cain and > the Jesse labels hide necessary information for correct DNA > interpretation. For example, the generic labels for the Jesse? lineage > hide the fact that the **DNA results** > can be used to prove descent from Richmond Pace versus descending from his > brothers Simeon or John. There is a DNA change that occurred with > Richmond Pace that his brothers do not have. Through a very careful > selection of participants, this DNA change has been proven to have > occurred with Richmond Pace and not more recently. To show that > information, it is important to show that the two Richmond Pace > participants are descendants of two of his sons - John R. and William. > So the labels should be Jesse?-Richmond-John R and > Jesse?-Richmond-William - not the generic Jesse. This important discovery > was found through the hard work of Darlene to find the 2nd participant > through a different son of Richmond Pace as we were trying to determine > whether the DNA change occurred with Richmond Pace or at a more recent > generation. This result was not found "by accident" but by finding an > appropriate second test participant for the line for testing. > > The spreadsheets I have been creating and posting on a yearly basis are > presented each year at the Pace reunion and published in the fall > quarterly. They are also available separately in the members only area of > the PSA website (in the Bulletins section) for download which is the > easiest way to read them as they are pdf files and can be zoomed in/zoomed > out. I don't have any problem with the spreadsheets being posted on the > public Pace DNA website, they just have never been placed on that website. > There are also additional DNA results from the William Pace/Ruth Lambert > line that are included on my spreadsheets but not included with the FTDNA > results on the PSA page. These results are for participants who tested at > SMGF rather than FTDNA. > > Rebecca Christensen > > > --- On Sat, 11/21/09, John <pjohndeb@verizon.net> wrote: > > From: John <pjohndeb@verizon.net> > Subject: [PACE] Burrell Pace DNA > To: Pace@rootsweb.com > Date: Saturday, November 21, 2009, 8:30 AM > > I was reviewing Pace DNA chart on the Pace website and noticed that > Burrell Pace descendents are listed separately from John and Sarah Pace of > Surry, NC. It is my understanding that Burrell is a proven son of John and > Sarah, so I was wondering if anyone on the list knows of any reason that > Burrell descendents should not be grouped with John and Sarah Pace for the > purpose of simplification. > Thanks > John Pace > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

   Many of the Group 3a results are not labeled under the earliest proven ancestor but rather  the common ancestor from whom the participants descend.  For example, William Pace (wife Ruth Lambert) is not the earliest known ancestor for the line.  He is the son of William Pace (Sr.) - from a multitude of records, although there is no one "single" document that provides direct evidence, but there is a multiplicity of records that provide indirect evidence of the father/son relationship and their relationship to the Lamberts.   William Pace's brother George is listed in William (Sr.)'s will along with the other children from William (Sr's) second marriage.  We have a DNA participant from George that is listed separately on the DNA chart online from the William Pace/Ruth Lambert line results, but George and William share the same father. All of the William Pace/Ruth Lambert results are listed with William Pace/Ruth Lambert as the *common* ancestor not *earliest* ancestor. We also have results through more than one son of William Pace and Ruth Lambert which is also not obvious from the chart.     I never use the charts on the public PSA website for DNA interpretation - there just isn't enough lineage information on the same page as the DNA results to really interpret the DNA results to full advantage.  I'm for adding more lineage identification rather than making it more generic and losing the information that we currently have showing the common ancestor of a group - such as the Burrell label for the participants who descend from Burrell.  If there is currently a Burrell participant with the generic John/Sarah label, it would be better to label it Burrell rather than changing all of the Burrell group to John/Sarah. Rebecca Christensen --- On Sat, 11/21/09, John <pjohndeb@verizon.net> wrote: From: John <pjohndeb@verizon.net> Subject: Re: [PACE] Burrell Pace DNA To: pace@rootsweb.com Date: Saturday, November 21, 2009, 11:11 AM I was under the impression the chart was labeled & grouped to display the earliest proven ancestor, i.e. for my line Jesse Pace, since no proof exists showing who Jesse's parents were. I have no problem with either method; however, consistency would be nice. There is another Burrell descendent, #88349, listed under John & Sarah and not with the other Burrell group. John Pace -------------------------------------------------- From: "Rebecca Christensen" <rchristen@sbcglobal.net> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:25 AM To: <pace@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [PACE] Burrell Pace DNA > I'm not sure what you mean by listed separately and not grouped with the > John/Sarah results.   The chart as I see it this morning has the Burrell > results listed right below the generic listings of the John and Sarah > results.  The ones labeled Burrell are much more informative than the > generic "John/Sarah" labelled results.  It is important to know which son > of a particular common ancestor that each participant descends through to > be able get the most of the DNA results. In fact, it is important to know > exactly where each of the lineages branch from a common ancestor for > correct DNA results interpretation. That is why I first created my > separate spreadsheets of DNA results to help with the interpretation of > the results.   The generic labels of William/Lambert and Richard/Cain and > the Jesse labels hide necessary information for correct DNA > interpretation.  For example, the generic labels for the Jesse? lineage > hide the fact that the **DNA results** > can be used to prove descent from Richmond Pace versus descending from his > brothers Simeon or John.  There is a DNA change that occurred with > Richmond Pace that his brothers do not have.  Through a very careful > selection of participants, this DNA change has been proven to have > occurred with Richmond Pace and not more recently.  To show that > information, it is important to show that the two Richmond Pace > participants are descendants of two of his sons  - John R. and William. > So the labels should be Jesse?-Richmond-John R and > Jesse?-Richmond-William - not the generic Jesse.  This important discovery > was found through the hard work of Darlene to find the 2nd participant > through a different son of Richmond Pace as we were trying to determine > whether the DNA change occurred with Richmond Pace or at a more recent > generation.   This result was not found "by accident" but by finding an > appropriate second test participant for the line for testing. > > The spreadsheets I have been creating and posting on a yearly basis are > presented each year at the Pace reunion and published in the fall > quarterly.  They are also available separately in the members only area of > the PSA website (in the Bulletins section) for download which is the > easiest way to read them as they are pdf files and can be zoomed in/zoomed > out.  I don't have any problem with the spreadsheets being posted on the > public Pace DNA website, they just have never been placed on that website. > There are also additional DNA results from the William Pace/Ruth Lambert > line that are included on my spreadsheets but not included with the FTDNA > results on the PSA page.  These results are for participants who tested at > SMGF rather than FTDNA. > > Rebecca Christensen > > > --- On Sat, 11/21/09, John <pjohndeb@verizon.net> wrote: > > From: John <pjohndeb@verizon.net> > Subject: [PACE] Burrell Pace DNA > To: Pace@rootsweb.com > Date: Saturday, November 21, 2009, 8:30 AM > > I was reviewing Pace DNA chart on the Pace website and noticed that > Burrell Pace descendents are listed separately from John and Sarah Pace of > Surry, NC. It is my understanding that Burrell is a proven son of John and > Sarah, so I was wondering if anyone on the list knows of any reason that > Burrell descendents should not be grouped with John and Sarah Pace for the > purpose of simplification. > Thanks > John Pace > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message