This is still a Pace line - it is just that the Pace male line begins with McDaniel Pace born 1855. It is just a "young" Pace line of 150 years. Testing this line can be informative for any person who may be a descendant of McDaniel Pace or Zilpha Pace. The test results may also help verify the father's name as the results should match DNA results of the reported father's line. As the proposed participant is the last of this line and has not had good health in the past, it would be prudent to have the line tested sooner rather than later which may be too late. If the funding is not available for DNA testing, another option is DNA testing through the Sorensen Foundation (SMGF) http://smgf.org/ which is free - but there is a long wait for the test results as it is not a commercial company. The results are not sent to the participant but become part of the database which is now searchable by surname. Also, there is currently a coupon available for participants in the SMGF database for testing at Relative Genetics for a reduced price for 26 markers. FTDNA also has a discounted price on tests through the end of December. Just some other alternatives. Rebecca Darlene <darlene@adweb.net> wrote: Roy this line below is broken by daug Zilpha Pace unless you are going to only be working with MC Daniel Pace b- in 1855 and I don't know if this works or not as female in here .... Ida Sanders wrote: My ggrandfather MCDaniel Pace was born Jo. Co. NC in 1855 and married Harriette WAll Pace in Jo. Co. NC in 1879. (Zilpha Pace) is > McDaniel Pace's mother without marriage.

Roy this line below is broken by daug Zilpha Pace unless you are going to only be working with MC Daniel Pace b- in 1855 and I don't know if this works or not as female in here .... Ida Sanders wrote: My ggrandfather MCDaniel Pace was born Jo. Co. NC in 1855 and married Harriette WAll Pace in Jo. Co. NC in 1879. (Zilpha Pace) is > McDaniel Pace's mother without marriage. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Johnson" <royj@webster.edu> To: <PACE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 7:57 PM Subject: [PACE-L] Funding needed > The person who sent the email below needs help with funding and can > contribute $25.00 It would make a nice Christmas present to tell her > the funding is available. > > Of course I will have to tell her that she is mistaken in connecting > John of M and Richard of J. She doesn't have a computer and is not aware > of what has happened. > > I am away from my main computer for the winter break and have difficulty > getting online daily, but I will do what I can. > > Roy Johnson > DNA coordinator > > Dear Roy , I am most thankful to hear back from you. I do not have a > computer so I do my computing at the public library in Chesapeake, VA > and am most thankful to be able to come here. I would be happy to do > the DNA but have understood it is male DNA to be preferred. As my > brother is the only grandson of Leonard Pace and Nettie Celeste DEANS > Pace and he has no children this DNA would have to be done or this line > is conmpletely lost. IF we don't get to do Ted's would mine be of any > value to the study?? > My brother is Leonard Theodore Pace of Harkers Island, NC(near MOrehead > City and Atlantic Beach). My address is Ida Paulette PACE Saunders 2856 > Flag Rd. Chesapeake, VA 23323 My brother was born 7 August 1951 in > Watts Hospital Durham, NC His first heart bypass was done in > Raleigh in 1990. His second heart bypass was done in New Bern, NC in > 2004. HE has been married 2x and his present wife is Sallie Pace and > there have been no children of either marriage. > My father was Elton Barden Pace b. 15 DEc. 1921 in Nash Co. d. 19 > April 1998 in Durham, NC at Veterans Hospital wife Pauline Velna > STARLING Pace b. 31 May 1921 in Wayne Co. NC > My grandfather was Leonard Pace b. Johnston Co. NC in 1879 in Jo. Co., > NC d. 1927 in Nash Co., NC. wife Nettie Celeste DEANS Pace b. Nash Co. > NC d. 1941 in Durham, NC > My ggrandfather MCDaniel Pace was born Jo. Co. NC in 1855 and married > Harriette WAll Pace in Jo. Co. NC in 1879. He was acknowledged in his > grandfather's will in Jo. CO. NC I just located the will this year. > John's Daughter was also in census and the will. She (Zilpha Pace) is > McDaniel Pace's mother without marriage. I have the father's name also > but will include that with family history to Valerie. > Zilpha's father and McDaniel Pace's grandfather was John Pace b. 1799 to > either Stephen Pace or Stephen Pace's daughter without marriage. John > Pace married Edney BATTEN Pace in Jo. CO. NC in 1821 and their children > were born over period of 20 plus years and Zilpha was next to last as > best I have found. When I learned these things this year it meant that > an extra generation had been located because it had always been thought > that John Pace b. @ 1799 was McDaniel Pace father. > It appears this connects us to John Pace of Middlesex, VA and then to > Richard of Jamestown. I have been on the land owned by Richard and > Isabella Pace of Jamestown(James City County) later in Surry Co. VA I > have located their son's iheritance of this land and the statement of > the Grant to Richard and Isabella. I have pictures of the monument to > Pace and his Indian companion's contribution to the saving of Jamestown > by getting word across the James River and notifying as many of the > settlers as could be and saving as many lives as possible during the > massacre of 1623. This I am writing without my paper work so my upstairs > memory bank may be a little off but is the best I can do at the library > today. I will try to donate $25.00 because I would like very much to add > this family line and history to be of what benefit it can to PACE > History. Thank you for your help and response. Ida PACE > Saunders<royj@webster.edu> wrote: > There should be financial help available. It will take me a little time > to set this up. First I need you to give me specifics on the line as far > back as you have, in the form: > > The way that proceeds is this: When I get someone needing support, I > post the message and ask for persons willing to contribute. Some will > contribute because it is their line; others just to help the Pace > Project out. When I get enough offers, I put all of them in contact > with one another and appoint one of them to collect the money and pay > for the test. I then order the test and send the invoice to that > person. > > So here is what I need: > > *Name of person donating DNA, address (this will be withheld except from > those contributing. I need it to order the kit.) It will also not be > posted when I post the lineage; it is all done by number, no living > persons names are posted.) > > His father, and as much of this info as possible: Place and date of > birth, place and date of death, spouse name. Any other useful info that > you know. > > Grandfather, same info > > Etc. as far back as you know. > > Also, if you or a family member can contribute part of the family can > contribute a little - ten dollard, 25 dollars, whatever - that lets > people know that you are really interested and helps bring in donations. > > > I am away from my regular computer for five weeks and can not get online > every day, so I will set this up as soon as I can after I hear back from > you. > > Roy Johnson > DNA coordinator > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ida Saunders [mailto:idaakey@yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 12:57 PM > To: dna@pacesociety.org > Subject: NC Pace > > As my brother who has no children and is the last of line of > Pace(Leonard and Nettie Celeste DEANS Pace of Nash Co. NC)., I hope that > he can be a donor for Pace DNA. I have some documents that I got in > Johnston Co. NC that I believe can answer some of the zigs and zags of > the NC Pace line. MY Father Elton Barden Pace and Mother Pauline Velna > STARLING Pace had the only grandson of Leonard and Nettie. MY Father was > born in Nash CO.(Middlesex) on 15 Dec. 1921 and died 19 April 1998. I > have tried to commune with Gordan and Jack of Williamsburg and got > little response even though I felt I had PACE info. of value to give > some answers. I plan to write to Valerie and let her decide if she wants > to share the info. that I have gathered. Please let me know if there is > financial help to get my brother's DNA processed b4 it is no longer > available. I know where Leonard and his father MCdaniel are buried. in > Nash Co. though both had died B4 I was born but I cared enough to search > them out and try to learn more about the Pace side of my family. Thank > you for any help and I will share my lines with Valerie. > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > ==== PACE Mailing List ==== > If you haven't done so within the last six months, please post a message describing your Earliest Pace Ancestor and how you descend from them. Please include dates, places, spouses, etc, if possible. Send the message to PACE-L@rootsweb.com > > __________ NOD32 1.1335 (20051222) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > >

The person who sent the email below needs help with funding and can contribute $25.00 It would make a nice Christmas present to tell her the funding is available. Of course I will have to tell her that she is mistaken in connecting John of M and Richard of J. She doesn't have a computer and is not aware of what has happened. I am away from my main computer for the winter break and have difficulty getting online daily, but I will do what I can. Roy Johnson DNA coordinator Dear Roy , I am most thankful to hear back from you. I do not have a computer so I do my computing at the public library in Chesapeake, VA and am most thankful to be able to come here. I would be happy to do the DNA but have understood it is male DNA to be preferred. As my brother is the only grandson of Leonard Pace and Nettie Celeste DEANS Pace and he has no children this DNA would have to be done or this line is conmpletely lost. IF we don't get to do Ted's would mine be of any value to the study?? My brother is Leonard Theodore Pace of Harkers Island, NC(near MOrehead City and Atlantic Beach). My address is Ida Paulette PACE Saunders 2856 Flag Rd. Chesapeake, VA 23323 My brother was born 7 August 1951 in Watts Hospital Durham, NC His first heart bypass was done in Raleigh in 1990. His second heart bypass was done in New Bern, NC in 2004. HE has been married 2x and his present wife is Sallie Pace and there have been no children of either marriage. My father was Elton Barden Pace b. 15 DEc. 1921 in Nash Co. d. 19 April 1998 in Durham, NC at Veterans Hospital wife Pauline Velna STARLING Pace b. 31 May 1921 in Wayne Co. NC My grandfather was Leonard Pace b. Johnston Co. NC in 1879 in Jo. Co., NC d. 1927 in Nash Co., NC. wife Nettie Celeste DEANS Pace b. Nash Co. NC d. 1941 in Durham, NC My ggrandfather MCDaniel Pace was born Jo. Co. NC in 1855 and married Harriette WAll Pace in Jo. Co. NC in 1879. He was acknowledged in his grandfather's will in Jo. CO. NC I just located the will this year. John's Daughter was also in census and the will. She (Zilpha Pace) is McDaniel Pace's mother without marriage. I have the father's name also but will include that with family history to Valerie. Zilpha's father and McDaniel Pace's grandfather was John Pace b. 1799 to either Stephen Pace or Stephen Pace's daughter without marriage. John Pace married Edney BATTEN Pace in Jo. CO. NC in 1821 and their children were born over period of 20 plus years and Zilpha was next to last as best I have found. When I learned these things this year it meant that an extra generation had been located because it had always been thought that John Pace b. @ 1799 was McDaniel Pace father. It appears this connects us to John Pace of Middlesex, VA and then to Richard of Jamestown. I have been on the land owned by Richard and Isabella Pace of Jamestown(James City County) later in Surry Co. VA I have located their son's iheritance of this land and the statement of the Grant to Richard and Isabella. I have pictures of the monument to Pace and his Indian companion's contribution to the saving of Jamestown by getting word across the James River and notifying as many of the settlers as could be and saving as many lives as possible during the massacre of 1623. This I am writing without my paper work so my upstairs memory bank may be a little off but is the best I can do at the library today. I will try to donate $25.00 because I would like very much to add this family line and history to be of what benefit it can to PACE History. Thank you for your help and response. Ida PACE Saunders<royj@webster.edu> wrote: There should be financial help available. It will take me a little time to set this up. First I need you to give me specifics on the line as far back as you have, in the form: The way that proceeds is this: When I get someone needing support, I post the message and ask for persons willing to contribute. Some will contribute because it is their line; others just to help the Pace Project out. When I get enough offers, I put all of them in contact with one another and appoint one of them to collect the money and pay for the test. I then order the test and send the invoice to that person. So here is what I need: *Name of person donating DNA, address (this will be withheld except from those contributing. I need it to order the kit.) It will also not be posted when I post the lineage; it is all done by number, no living persons names are posted.) His father, and as much of this info as possible: Place and date of birth, place and date of death, spouse name. Any other useful info that you know. Grandfather, same info Etc. as far back as you know. Also, if you or a family member can contribute part of the family can contribute a little - ten dollard, 25 dollars, whatever - that lets people know that you are really interested and helps bring in donations. I am away from my regular computer for five weeks and can not get online every day, so I will set this up as soon as I can after I hear back from you. Roy Johnson DNA coordinator -----Original Message----- From: Ida Saunders [mailto:idaakey@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 12:57 PM To: dna@pacesociety.org Subject: NC Pace As my brother who has no children and is the last of line of Pace(Leonard and Nettie Celeste DEANS Pace of Nash Co. NC)., I hope that he can be a donor for Pace DNA. I have some documents that I got in Johnston Co. NC that I believe can answer some of the zigs and zags of the NC Pace line. MY Father Elton Barden Pace and Mother Pauline Velna STARLING Pace had the only grandson of Leonard and Nettie. MY Father was born in Nash CO.(Middlesex) on 15 Dec. 1921 and died 19 April 1998. I have tried to commune with Gordan and Jack of Williamsburg and got little response even though I felt I had PACE info. of value to give some answers. I plan to write to Valerie and let her decide if she wants to share the info. that I have gathered. Please let me know if there is financial help to get my brother's DNA processed b4 it is no longer available. I know where Leonard and his father MCdaniel are buried. in Nash Co. though both had died B4 I was born but I cared enough to search them out and try to learn more about the Pace side of my family. Thank you for any help and I will share my lines with Valerie. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Anyone recognize this liine? If so please emal the requester. He has just joined the Pace DNA study. -----Original Message----- From: will [mailto:starsurfer@compwrx.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 9:45 PM To: royj@webster.edu Subject: Re: Pace Surname Project Join Request here is all I have. Descendent of John R. Pace (Father) 1. Luke Frances Pace, born: 18 may 1890, Centertown Cole Co., Mo. Died: 19 May 1965 , place: Fort Supply , Woodward Co. Ok. (Mother) + Romania May Brown , born Apr. 1911 place: Texhoma, TX. died: 2 Feb.1990 place Yakima, Wa (Grandfather) 2. Joseph Griffin Pace, born: Nov 1832, IL. d: p: (Grandmother) + Sarah Catherine Byrd, born: Oct 1832 , Mo. , Married: 1872 (Great-Grandfather) 3. John R. Pace, born: 18 par 1791, Place: Va. (Great-Grandmother) + Emily Taylor, born: 28 Jan 1803 , died: 17 sep 1876, place: Moniteau Co. Mo.

I have been doing Genealogy off an on for 20 years. I have found out things like my Great Great Grandfather dying of a strange disease which turned out to be syphilis. I have found relatives that were slaveholders and even joined the KKK right after the Civil War. I have found Presidents and Senators, Kings and Queens, even a connection to Johnny Cash and June Carter, both. None of it changes who I am or will become. History is only valuable when it provides lessons and lessons are only valuable when they are best on truth. In 1996 and 1998, I was the Republican Nominee for US Congress from this district. My daughter was very proud of that fact. For the past two years I have had a life that is much less prideful. I was sent to prison for failure to pay child support to my son while he was in Basic Training with the National Guard. The state of Missouri sent me notice that I was done paying Child Support as my son had turned 18. They also sent me a copy of the Missouri law on Child Support. It states that Child Support terminates at different events. Number 3 is "enters active duty in the military." Number 5 is turns 18 unless the child enrolls for and completes 12 hours in college. My son enter college on a full ride scholarship after he was done with basic training. He enrolled in 13 hours but did not go to class and therefore did not complete anything. The judge ruled that the National Guard is not Military Service but is just a part time job. He did not care to listen to my argument that enrolling in class but not going does not meet the law. As I am not a lawyer, I was handcuffed and lead off to prison. My name has been totally destroyed here but my daughter is still proud of me and I have left lots of records for the following generations to find. My case is now on appeal, I am very tired and I get depressed thinking about how this has changed my life. I was a bank President. Now I work in a warehouse. But I have a loving family. Some of whom, like you, I have never met. Do not be embarrassed about your families past, you, you all, have a great future. Jeff Bailey, Gladstone, Missouri.

A friend who used to make fun of my interest in genealogy made the following remark--- It costs $ 10.00 to look it up and $ 100.00 to shut it up. So best not to look if worried about what one might find. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitzi Allen" <lew977@yahoo.com> To: <PACE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 4:11 PM Subject: [PACE-L] Older "mothers"? > My mother-in-law had children her last three children at the age of 42, > 44, and 47, and two of the daughters were old enough to have borne > children, but this was not the case. She also had the last child at a > specialty maternity hospital in NY that dealt with difficult > pregnancies. And I myself was born when my mother was 42 and my oldest > sister, who was 16, was shocked, embarrassed and indignent! A long > time family joke. > > On the other hand, my g-grandmother had her last child at the age of 48 > and had an unmarried daughter of 19 (who never married). In this case, > though there were 10 children born very close together, there was then > a gap of 8 1/2 years until this last child, which does make this birth > very suspect. > > Before coming to a quick conclusion, check to see when the next to last > child was born, and what the usual gap of years was between births. > There's an old Irish conviction that it's best not to delve too deeply > into your family history for fear of what you'll find. I heard that > often researching my husband's family in Ireland. > > Mitzi in Seattle > > > ==== PACE Mailing List ==== > To subscribe or unsubscribe send email to PACE-L-request@rootsweb.com with the one word message: subscribe OR unsubscribe > For digest mode, use PACE-D-request@rootsweb.com > >

My maternal grandmother had an older sister who was 14 years older than her and an "older" mother. Turns out that my grandmother's older sister was actually her biological mum and got pregnant when 13 years old and "in service". The birth certificate has no father listed and we've imagined all sorts of stories i.e. she got pregnant by the "master of the house" or had a fumble in the house stables with the master's son!!! We will never know though I'm afraid as it was the best kept secret and they took it to their graves with them. Mitzi Allen <lew977 To: PACE-L@rootsweb.com @yahoo.com> cc: Subject: [PACE-L] Older "mothers"? 13/12/2005 21:11 My mother-in-law had children her last three children at the age of 42, 44, and 47, and two of the daughters were old enough to have borne children, but this was not the case. She also had the last child at a specialty maternity hospital in NY that dealt with difficult pregnancies. And I myself was born when my mother was 42 and my oldest sister, who was 16, was shocked, embarrassed and indignent! A long time family joke. On the other hand, my g-grandmother had her last child at the age of 48 and had an unmarried daughter of 19 (who never married). In this case, though there were 10 children born very close together, there was then a gap of 8 1/2 years until this last child, which does make this birth very suspect. Before coming to a quick conclusion, check to see when the next to last child was born, and what the usual gap of years was between births. There's an old Irish conviction that it's best not to delve too deeply into your family history for fear of what you'll find. I heard that often researching my husband's family in Ireland. Mitzi in Seattle ==== PACE Mailing List ==== To subscribe or unsubscribe send email to PACE-L-request@rootsweb.com with the one word message: subscribe OR unsubscribe For digest mode, use PACE-D-request@rootsweb.com

My mother-in-law had children her last three children at the age of 42, 44, and 47, and two of the daughters were old enough to have borne children, but this was not the case. She also had the last child at a specialty maternity hospital in NY that dealt with difficult pregnancies. And I myself was born when my mother was 42 and my oldest sister, who was 16, was shocked, embarrassed and indignent! A long time family joke. On the other hand, my g-grandmother had her last child at the age of 48 and had an unmarried daughter of 19 (who never married). In this case, though there were 10 children born very close together, there was then a gap of 8 1/2 years until this last child, which does make this birth very suspect. Before coming to a quick conclusion, check to see when the next to last child was born, and what the usual gap of years was between births. There's an old Irish conviction that it's best not to delve too deeply into your family history for fear of what you'll find. I heard that often researching my husband's family in Ireland. Mitzi in Seattle

Thanks, Joe. I have some pretty intense family problems right now and haven't had much time to study. I just keep up the database. Roy -----Original Message----- From: Janders 45 [mailto:janders45@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 7:54 AM To: royj@webster.edu; PACE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [PACE-L] West African YDNA Roy, As I understand it, our Y chromosome analysis uses STR's (short tandem repeats) which is not the same as SNP's (single nucleotide polymorphisms). STR's are abundant in the human genome and highly variable. The process of STR analysis is fast and cheap enough to allow commercial application such as the Pace yDNA project. SNP's are much more rare and, once the original mutation has occurred, they don't change much over time. SNP's are what the human population geneticists use to define haplogroups. When we get the results of our Y chromosome STR analysis back, that is our haplotype. Because some STR haplotypes are more common within certain haplogroups than others, the geneticists can use your haplotype to "predict" what haplogroup you are likely to fall into. Even though my genetics background is better than most, it's taking some work for me to understand all this. Here is one link that I have found useful: http://www.dnaheritage.com/masterclass1.asp Joe Anderson ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Roy Johnson" <royj@webster.edu> To: PACE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [PACE-L] West African YDNA Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 22:18:03 -0600 -----Original Message----- From: Addiefaye4@wmconnect.com [mailto:Addiefaye4@wmconnect.com] Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 8:48 AM To: royj@webster.edu Subject: Re: [PACE-L] West African YDNA Roy, what is the SNP test? Maybe I need to do it to find my GGG Grandfather, Father of Wyche H. Pace b. 1817 in TN. Addie I used the wrong terminology. The Y chromosome test is an SNP test, as I understand the terminology, testing a snip of DNA. What I intended to say is that I need to upgrade to the 25 marker test. I run the DNA site but Rebecca Christenson actually has studied DNA mush more deeply than I, and I consider her the expert on the subject. Roy ==== PACE Mailing List ==== Check out the new Pace Society of America web page at: www.pacesociety.org, and please join the Pace Society of America for only $25.00 per year.

This is just a note to all the contributors and editors of the Pace bulletin to say thank you for such a good issue. It is the best I have seen in my short membership. To those who don't belong to the Pace Society, you don't know what you are missing. John Pace

I am far from an "expert" on DNA, but have had to study it in the past few years as it is becoming an important tool in genealogical research. There is much - most - about DNA and DNA testing that I don't know. I see that Joe Anderson has given an excellent reply to your e-mail about the differences between SNPs which are tested to define your haplogroup (examples R1b -the most common in Europe, or E3a, or I1a or I1b, etc) and STRs which are what is tested in surname projects to define an individual's haplotype or set of results - that long string of numbers reported on the Pace DNA webpage, for example. Generally, DNA testing for surname groups is concerned with the Y-chromosome STR results as those results can be used for sorting out families in a genealogical time frame. Examples from the Pace DNA project would be the differences between the NC Paces Group 3a and 3b results, and also the differences in the results between the John of Middlesex group and the NC Pace Group 3 as a whole. But it should also be noted that the John of Middlesex group and the NC Pace group 3 are in different haplogroups as well. That is they not only don't share ancestors in a genealogical time period, but they don't share ancestors for thousands of years. There are a lot of interesting new developments in haplogroup testing in that several subgroups are being defined and that some of these subgroups are more prominent in different parts of Europe than in others. For most, knowing the new haplogroup subgroup is still an "interesting" new result rather than a result that can help in solving a genealogical puzzle, but in some cases knowing a particular part of Europe where their subgroup predominates may be helpful. But as I mentioned before, the only way to truly know the haplogroup a participant belongs to is by SNP testing. The algorithms used for *predicting* haplogroups based on a person's STR results (the results in the Pace DNA project for example) are very good for some haplogroups, but for other haplogroups where not so much is known there are still non-conclusive results. The problem with prediction is it is that it is an educated guess based on partial results. So, if the prediction is based on only 12 markers (not a very useful number in most cases) and it is wrong then wrong conclusions can be drawn about the ancestral groups in our backgrounds. Hope this helps. Rebecca Roy Johnson <royj@webster.edu> wrote: -----Original Message----- From: Addiefaye4@wmconnect.com [mailto:Addiefaye4@wmconnect.com] Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 8:48 AM To: royj@webster.edu Subject: Re: [PACE-L] West African YDNA Roy, what is the SNP test? Maybe I need to do it to find my GGG Grandfather, Father of Wyche H. Pace b. 1817 in TN. Addie I used the wrong terminology. The Y chromosome test is an SNP test, as I understand the terminology, testing a snip of DNA. What I intended to say is that I need to upgrade to the 25 marker test. I run the DNA site but Rebecca Christenson actually has studied DNA mush more deeply than I, and I consider her the expert on the subject. Roy ==== PACE Mailing List ==== Check out the new Pace Society of America web page at: www.pacesociety.org, and please join the Pace Society of America for only $25.00 per year.

Roy, As I understand it, our Y chromosome analysis uses STR's (short tandem repeats) which is not the same as SNP's (single nucleotide polymorphisms). STR's are abundant in the human genome and highly variable. The process of STR analysis is fast and cheap enough to allow commercial application such as the Pace yDNA project. SNP's are much more rare and, once the original mutation has occurred, they don't change much over time. SNP's are what the human population geneticists use to define haplogroups. When we get the results of our Y chromosome STR analysis back, that is our haplotype. Because some STR haplotypes are more common within certain haplogroups than others, the geneticists can use your haplotype to "predict" what haplogroup you are likely to fall into. Even though my genetics background is better than most, it's taking some work for me to understand all this. Here is one link that I have found useful: http://www.dnaheritage.com/masterclass1.asp Joe Anderson ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Roy Johnson" <royj@webster.edu> To: PACE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [PACE-L] West African YDNA Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 22:18:03 -0600 -----Original Message----- From: Addiefaye4@wmconnect.com [mailto:Addiefaye4@wmconnect.com] Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 8:48 AM To: royj@webster.edu Subject: Re: [PACE-L] West African YDNA Roy, what is the SNP test? Maybe I need to do it to find my GGG Grandfather, Father of Wyche H. Pace b. 1817 in TN. Addie I used the wrong terminology. The Y chromosome test is an SNP test, as I understand the terminology, testing a snip of DNA. What I intended to say is that I need to upgrade to the 25 marker test. I run the DNA site but Rebecca Christenson actually has studied DNA mush more deeply than I, and I consider her the expert on the subject. Roy ==== PACE Mailing List ==== Check out the new Pace Society of America web page at: www.pacesociety.org, and please join the Pace Society of America for only $25.00 per year.

-----Original Message----- From: Addiefaye4@wmconnect.com [mailto:Addiefaye4@wmconnect.com] Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 8:48 AM To: royj@webster.edu Subject: Re: [PACE-L] West African YDNA Roy, what is the SNP test? Maybe I need to do it to find my GGG Grandfather, Father of Wyche H. Pace b. 1817 in TN. Addie I used the wrong terminology. The Y chromosome test is an SNP test, as I understand the terminology, testing a snip of DNA. What I intended to say is that I need to upgrade to the 25 marker test. I run the DNA site but Rebecca Christenson actually has studied DNA mush more deeply than I, and I consider her the expert on the subject. Roy

I realize that since I have been on this Pace site I have not contributed who I am, and which line I come thru...... so will do it in a short version: From Richard Pace (1572-1628) married Isabell Smyth (1576-1637) then George Pace who married Sarah Maycocke then Richard Pace who married Mary Knowles then Richard Pace who married Rebecca Poythress then Richard Pace who married Elizabeth Cain then Silas Pace Sr who married Mary Newsome then Silas Pace Jr who married Elizabeth Foreman then Bartley Martin Pace Sr who married Elizabeth Taylor then Bartley Martin Pace Jr who married Sarah Louise Norris 2nd wife Alice J. Jarman then William P Pace who married Cassie Mae Miller then Clarence Pace who married Eunice Lavonia Thomas (this couple is my grandparents and lived in Hawkins, Wood County, TX, where I was born to their oldest daughter Marjorie Dorrelle (1923-1999). I can find Bartley Martin Pace and Alice on the 1880 census in Rains, TX I can find Clarence Pace in Wood Co in 1920 as a 19 yr old still living with parents William and Cassie I can find Clarence Pace in Wood Co in 1930 married to Eunice and their first 3 children The 1920 Census shows Clarence being born in Texas, as were the rest of his siblings. Father born in Alabama, mother in Texas. Not real sure when this Pace group came to Texas. Anyone out there coming thru this same line? I have other info, just wanted to make it as concise as possible.

someone wrote recently: Returning to the subject of genealogy, consider with suspicion the > identity of a child's mother when the claimed mother was past 40 when the > child was born. It was sometimes the case that a wayward daughter gave > birth, but to prevent scandal the grandmother claimed to be the child's > mother. Consider the following story and this happening in the modern era of birth control. Don't be too ready to dismiss an ancestor over 40 bearing children before the advent of birth control. SYLVESTER, Ga., Nov. 11, 2004 (AP) A 59-year-old great-grandmother living in south Georgia is set to give birth to twins next month, which would steal some of the limelight, and a purported record, from a 56-year-old New York City woman who gave birth to twins this week. Frances Harris of rural Sylvester, Ga., says she wasn't trying to get pregnant. She didn't even know she was carrying a child - let alone two- until she visited a doctor in August while trying to figure out some unusual weight gain over the summer. "A lot of things changed about me," said Harris, a homemaker whose twins are due Dec. 21. "I started craving grapes and apples, things I don't usually crave. By then I was four months' pregnant." John

I recently bought a book on Woodford Co., KY Marriages, 1789-1830 for research on another line. There are a couple of Pace entries - thought that they might be helpful to some of you... Polly PACE and James ATWOOD married on 25 Jul 1809 in Woodford Co., KY. Bondsman: Joel Pace. Consent: Joel Pace, father of Polly Pace - per Woodford Co., KY Marriages, 1789-1830, pg 6 Martha PACE and Nathaniel GOODRICH married on 15 Jun 1816 in Woodford Co., KY. Bonsman: Joseph Pace. Consent: Joel Pace, father of Martha Pace. Consent attested by Jos. Pace and Henry L. Edrington - per Woodford Co., KY Marriages, 1789-1830, pg 63. Letitia PACE and William JACKSON married on 20 Dec 1816 in Woodford Co., KY. Bondsman: Joel Pace. Consent: Mary Jackson of Franklin Co., mother of Wm Jackson. Consent attested by Joseph Edrington and Sarah Vaughan - per Woodford Co., KY Marriages, 1789-1830, pg 86 There were no other Paces listed in the book. Cec Barton-Murrah

Recent discussions about the uncertainty of genealogy and dna tests leave me with a thought or two. What is certain in this world? I say very few things. All we can do is search out our ancestors, take the dna tests and draw conclusions based on what evidence we have. When writing your family history I suggest when you hit the brick wall of uncertainty, make a conclusion based on the evidence you have, if that is all there is. Then state in your history the uncertainty in plain language.There are so many records which have been destroyed that we may never know for sure who is who's son or daughter. There are many cases of law which were decided on circumstantial evidence and in many cases, lives depended on it. The life of the perpetrator, or the life of a future victim. Was the jury absolutely sure of the guilt or innocence of the defendant? I doubt it. After all, isn't that part of the fun of the searching in genealogy, it's like solving a 5000 piece jigsaw puzzle with a f! ew pieces missing; when you are finished the picture is still beautiful, and you can still get on the floor and keep searching for the missing pieces. John

>And there is another really worthwhile statement regarding history: >"The winners, or the victors always wrote it". > >Brenda Howorko An exception to that rule is the American Civil War. It has perhaps been better covered in the Southern press than by those of northern persuasion. To understand the true worth of a history, know the bias of its author. Not always an easy task. Returning to the subject of genealogy, consider with suspicion the identity of a child's mother when the claimed mother was past 40 when the child was born. It was sometimes the case that a wayward daughter gave birth, but to prevent scandal the grandmother claimed to be the child's mother. Also, when viewing the US censuses prior to 1880, where relationships are not specified, be careful about assigning relationships. For example, look at this census record for one of my ancestors: 1850 Barren County Census, Division 2, Page 458, Household 779 John Bowles, 58 M, farmer, $1500, VA Editha A. Bowles, 34 F, KY Elza M. Bowles, 32 M, farmer, KY John M. Bowles, 21 M, farmer, KY Lafayette Bowles, 17 M, farmer, KY Eliza C. Bowles, 15 F, KY Willis W. Bowles, 14 M, KY Martha Bowles, 12 F, KY Harriet Bowles, 9 F, KY Is Editha the daughter of John, or perhaps his second wife? Without additional documentation we cannot be certain. At 34 she is old enough to be the mother of Eliza, Willis, Martha, and Harriet. She is also young enough to be the daughter of 58 year old John. Other documentation clearly shows that she was John's daughter. His wife was Celia White who was born about 1797 and was apparently the mother of all of John's children. Harriett, the last Bowles child was born about 1841 when Celia would have been in her early forties. One more clue, Editha was living with Martha and her husband in the 1870 census. Now, without further documentation, can you tell me for sure whether Martha and Harriet were children of Celia or were they born out of wedlock to Editha? The truth is that I don't know with certainty. I choose to believe that all of these Bowles children belonged to John and Celia, and that Editha never birthed any children, but I can't prove it. BTW, just to tie this back to PACE genealogy, John and Celia had another son named Austin Washington Bowles who married Nancy Clark, and Nancy was the daughter of Samuel Clark and his wife Nancy Gatewood Pace who was a descendent of John Pace of Middlesex. Charlie

And there is another really worthwhile statement regarding history: "The winners, or the victors always wrote it". We now know that some of what we learned in school wasn't necessarily 100% accurate, for various reasons - including more modern techniques for almost everything. Brenda Howorko Executive Assistant to the Deputy Minister Alberta Energy Ph: (780) 427-7727 Fx: (780) 422-3920 -----Original Message----- From: GTPace [mailto:gordpace@eagle.ca] Sent: December 8, 2005 4:37 PM To: PACE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PACE-L] Re: [] RE-D. N. A. ????? Roy Johnson wrote: > There's a lot that we don't know about history. I taught history all my > life, and I always emphasized to my students--history is NOT the past. > History is what we THINK the past was like. > Roy Johnson A wonderful and truthful statement !! I have always kept within a group of friends, here in Canada, who definitely, in their personal manner of thinking and reasoning, adhere basically to the above concept of thought. Gordon Thomas Pace in Canada http://www.phc.igs.net/~gordpace/ mainly to do with Paces of England but some who emmigrated from there, including: John of M interests to many US PACE Family historians who may have a new interest. ==== PACE Mailing List ==== Check out the new Pace Society of America web page at: www.pacesociety.org, and please join the Pace Society of America for only $25.00 per year. This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to which it is addressed, and may contain confidential, personal and or privileged information. Please contact us immediately if you are not the intended recipients of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it. Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.

Roy Johnson wrote: > There's a lot that we don't know about history. I taught history all my > life, and I always emphasized to my students--history is NOT the past. > History is what we THINK the past was like. > Roy Johnson A wonderful and truthful statement !! I have always kept within a group of friends, here in Canada, who definitely, in their personal manner of thinking and reasoning, adhere basically to the above concept of thought. Gordon Thomas Pace in Canada http://www.phc.igs.net/~gordpace/ mainly to do with Paces of England but some who emmigrated from there, including: John of M interests to many US PACE Family historians who may have a new interest.