Hi Darlene, thank you for your reply. What are the books you cite? Are they collections of official records? If there exists an official record of the marriage of Richard Pace and Rebecca Poythress, then there is no arguing with that, but I understood that there was no such record. I'm partly making an assumption -- I'm assuming that if there was an official record of the marriage, it would have been mentioned by Bruce Howard or by David Avant, neither of whom accept the Poythress theory. I agree, indeed it can't be doubted, that a Richard Pace removed to NC, but as I understand it there was more than one Richard Pace and we don't know which one went to NC. I don't know enough about this point to comment on it, but I accept that if there was more than one RP, and nothing definite to connect the NC RP with any of the VA RPs, then we don't know whose son the NC RP was and we don't know whether he was a descendant of Richard and Isabella. I agree that Richard's wife's name was Rebecca, I just don't see any evidence that she was Rebecca Poythress, and the fact that she was known as Rebecca Poythress in 1721 clinches it for me. Ellen At 09:37 02/01/2006 -0800, darlene wrote: >Virginia Marriages Vol 2 Part 2 page 25,Under the Poythress family notes >Rebecca Poythress -m- Richard Pace but no date given several records >indicate they married but no dates given > >Va Record Vol 2 Part 2 Page 146 Richard Pace d- 1738 believed to have -m- >Rebecca Poythress d/o Francis Poythress & Rebecca Goggin > >I also found one other reference that mention that Richard Pace removed to >NC > >in the Will of Richard Pace of Bertie NC Feb court 1738 it mention his wife >name as Rebecca so when you put it all togather more or less leads one to >believe Rebecca Poythress was Richard Pace's wife... but I am finding in >1700 records its so hard to prove up things like I like.... ((Grin)) > >Does this Help Darlene > >----- Original Message ----- >From: <genealogy@snuffy.britishlibrary.net> >To: <PACE-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 7:09 AM >Subject: RE: [PACE-L] Poythress > > > > Hi Joyce. Thanks for the reply. > > > > I don't understand how that record could be > > interpreted to mean Richard was married to > > Rebecca Poythress. Sounds to me as if Francis > > Poythress owned a tract of land which included > > the plantations of Richard Pace, Joseph Carter, > > Edward Crosland, Thomas Kirkland, and Michael > > Rosser, Sr., and in 1718 Richard Pace bought the > > title to the land. He lived on the land before > > he bought it, but so apparently did all these > > other chaps, and there seems to be no suggestion > > that they were living there because they were > > related to Francis Poythress by marriage. (Is > > there? I could not find anything to indicate it.) > > > > A fuller version of that entry reads as follows: > > > > "Prince George Wills and Deeds, p. 269, November 11, 1718 > > Frances Poythress, the Elder, of Westover Parish, > > Prince George County, to Richard Pace of the > > same, "for divers good causes and considerations > > him there unto wavering but more especially for > > and in consideration of the value of One hundred > > pounds Sterling to him in hand paid by the said > > Richard Pace" for the land "Whereon the said > > Richard Pace now liveth, the plantation whereon > > Joseph Carter, Edward Crossland, Thomas Kirkland, > > & Michael Rosser Senr. Liveth...being about four > > hundred acres bounded on the lands of the said > > Francis Poythress according to several Lines of > > Marked Trees lately made between the said Francis and the said Richard." > > Wit: Peter Wynne, John (B) Bonner, Thomas Poythress ff. Poythress > > > > This seems to make it clear that the basis for > > the deal was cash paid on the nail. > > > > On the same day we have: > > > > "Nov. 11, 1718 Francis Poythress of Westover > > Parish, Pr. Geo. Co. to Thomas Goodwyn of Surry > > Co., 100 acres in Westover Parish, Pr. Geo. next > > to Peter Grammer, and lands lately purchased of > > Richard Pace by said Francis Poythress > > F. Poythress > > Wit: > > Peter Wynne > > John (JB) Bonner > > Thomas Poythress " > > > > and > > > > "Nov. 11, 1718 Richard Pace and Francis Poythress > > of Pr. Geo. Co. to Thomas Goodwyn of Surry Co. > > for £ 100, 400 acres in Westopher Par. bounded by > > Ol Town Run, path from old Michael Rosser's > > plantation, Edward Goodrich's, Richard Pace's, > > place where John Whittmore lately lived together > > with 200 acres of land at head of Richard Pace's > > dividend, next to Mr. Charles Anderson, dec'd, > > F. Poythress > > Richard Pace > > Wit: > > Peter Wynne > > John (JB) Bonner > > Thomas Poythress " > > > > To me these records just show that Francis > > Poythress, Richard Pace, Thomas Goodwyn and John > > Bonner were all conducting land transactions > > between one another, for money not for love, and > > they all went to court on 11 November 1718 to get it sorted. > > > > The deed of 1721, in which Rebecca is referred to > > as Rebecca Poythress (not Rebecca Pace), seems to > > me to show that Rebecca Poythress was not married > > to Richard Pace, else she would have been > > referred to as Rebecca Pace, not Rebecca > > Poythress. The land in question was apparently > > given by Mrs Rebecca Pothress to her two > > daughters, Ann and Rebecca. Ann is referred to > > by her married name, as Ann Green; if Rebecca had > > been married in 1721, she would no doubt have > > been also referred to by her married name. Since > > she is named as Poythress still, the conclusion > > (it seems to me) must be that she was unmarried. > > > > "Deed 15 November 1721, from Burrell Green and > > Ann, his wife, and Francis Poythress all of Surry > > County, conveying a tract of land in Prince > > George County to Robert Hunnicut patented by > > Rebecca Poythress (being in all 1000 A.) on 29 > > April 1692, half of which land is in the > > possession of Littleberry Eppes, 300 acres of > > said land was given to Rebecca Poythress a > > daughter of said Rebecca, and 200 A. to the said Ann Green." > > > > What do you think? > > > > Ellen > > > > > > > > > > ==== PACE Mailing List ==== > > Check out the Pace GenConnect Boards where you can post or peruse Pace >Bibles, Obits, Bios, Deeds, Wills, Queries, etc. Bookmark this URL: >http://boards.ancestry.com > > > > __________ NOD32 1.1348 (20060102) Information __________ > > > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > >==== PACE Mailing List ==== >Be sure to check the Pace Family Genealogy Forum >at http://genforum.com/pace/ and the Pace >Network at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~pace

Colonial Williamsburg, Autumn 2005 pagew 33-35 has the article and pictures about Pace's Paines in VA. It is on VA Route 10-the "Colonial Trail".. about 3 miles from Surry. Another marker--"In Memory of Chanco." Very good article. betty in ga

Hi Joyce. Thanks for the reply. I don't understand how that record could be interpreted to mean Richard was married to Rebecca Poythress. Sounds to me as if Francis Poythress owned a tract of land which included the plantations of Richard Pace, Joseph Carter, Edward Crosland, Thomas Kirkland, and Michael Rosser, Sr., and in 1718 Richard Pace bought the title to the land. He lived on the land before he bought it, but so apparently did all these other chaps, and there seems to be no suggestion that they were living there because they were related to Francis Poythress by marriage. (Is there? I could not find anything to indicate it.) A fuller version of that entry reads as follows: "Prince George Wills and Deeds, p. 269, November 11, 1718 Frances Poythress, the Elder, of Westover Parish, Prince George County, to Richard Pace of the same, "for divers good causes and considerations him there unto wavering but more especially for and in consideration of the value of One hundred pounds Sterling to him in hand paid by the said Richard Pace" for the land "Whereon the said Richard Pace now liveth, the plantation whereon Joseph Carter, Edward Crossland, Thomas Kirkland, & Michael Rosser Senr. Liveth...being about four hundred acres bounded on the lands of the said Francis Poythress according to several Lines of Marked Trees lately made between the said Francis and the said Richard." Wit: Peter Wynne, John (B) Bonner, Thomas Poythress ff. Poythress This seems to make it clear that the basis for the deal was cash paid on the nail. On the same day we have: "Nov. 11, 1718 Francis Poythress of Westover Parish, Pr. Geo. Co. to Thomas Goodwyn of Surry Co., 100 acres in Westover Parish, Pr. Geo. next to Peter Grammer, and lands lately purchased of Richard Pace by said Francis Poythress F. Poythress Wit: Peter Wynne John (JB) Bonner Thomas Poythress " and "Nov. 11, 1718 Richard Pace and Francis Poythress of Pr. Geo. Co. to Thomas Goodwyn of Surry Co. for £ 100, 400 acres in Westopher Par. bounded by Ol Town Run, path from old Michael Rosser's plantation, Edward Goodrich's, Richard Pace's, place where John Whittmore lately lived together with 200 acres of land at head of Richard Pace's dividend, next to Mr. Charles Anderson, dec'd, F. Poythress Richard Pace Wit: Peter Wynne John (JB) Bonner Thomas Poythress " To me these records just show that Francis Poythress, Richard Pace, Thomas Goodwyn and John Bonner were all conducting land transactions between one another, for money not for love, and they all went to court on 11 November 1718 to get it sorted. The deed of 1721, in which Rebecca is referred to as Rebecca Poythress (not Rebecca Pace), seems to me to show that Rebecca Poythress was not married to Richard Pace, else she would have been referred to as Rebecca Pace, not Rebecca Poythress. The land in question was apparently given by Mrs Rebecca Pothress to her two daughters, Ann and Rebecca. Ann is referred to by her married name, as Ann Green; if Rebecca had been married in 1721, she would no doubt have been also referred to by her married name. Since she is named as Poythress still, the conclusion (it seems to me) must be that she was unmarried. "Deed 15 November 1721, from Burrell Green and Ann, his wife, and Francis Poythress all of Surry County, conveying a tract of land in Prince George County to Robert Hunnicut patented by Rebecca Poythress (being in all 1000 A.) on 29 April 1692, half of which land is in the possession of Littleberry Eppes, 300 acres of said land was given to Rebecca Poythress a daughter of said Rebecca, and 200 A. to the said Ann Green." What do you think? Ellen

POYTHRESS & PACE CONNECTION NOT A POPULAR SUBJECT WITH POYTHRESS RESEARCHERS STEALING ANOTHER MANS WIFE OR DAUGHTER ON GENEALOGICAL PAPER MAY NOT BE A CRIMINAL OFFENSE, BUT THE SUBJECT IS A SERIOUS ONE. With humor I share the info below and hope all study the info carefully, and make the appropriate changes in your tree. At least admit in your notes this Pace - Poythress connection is unproven speculation. Regarding Richard Pace b abt. 1661, d. Jan 6, 1737 Bertie Co., NC and his wife Rebecca being a Poythress. Source of supporting evidence is based on VA deeds showing business transactions between Richard Pace and Francis Poythress. Not sufficient proof in my opinion. Sometime ago, I contacted by e-mail a few Poythress researchers and I received not one answer to their opinion on the matter. Somehow I obtained the info below from what I would consider a serious Poythress Researcher who does not take to kindly to us Pace's stealing another mans wife or daughter on paper. If the Poythress folks do not claim any connection to our Richard Pace, then maybe we best with a bit of grace give up the fight to claim their Rebecca Poythress. I suspect there are many other folks that wished their famous relative was not claimed by everyone who happens to have the same Surname End of my comments. Larry Pace COMMENTS ON FILE FROM JOHN MAYNARD POYTHRESS dated 1997: Subj: Pace-Poythress Date: 97-01-05 23:37:18 EST From: VKRatliff@aol.com I picked up your web site off Cindi's Genealogy Links list. I am John Maynard Poythress. I am one of a half dozen or so Poythress descendents doing work on our line which was complicated by those friendly folks from the Army of the Potomac having wreaked havoc on Prince George County Courthouse during the siege of Petersburg. Anyway, to my point, about every month or so a Pace chaser comes to me asking about a particular reference: Richard Pace- b. ca 1675 Va. Will proved Feb.1738, Bertie County, NC, removed from Virginia to NC ca 1723-1726, m. Rebecca __________. (Rebecca Poythress ?) Apparently the matter of whether the bride in question was or was not a Poythress is a matter hotly contested among the Pace researchers. After enough queries I was finally motivated to go thru my material and compose a document containing all my Pace references to the marriage in question so that I might just attach it to an e-mail reply which would be the best I had for the questioner. I have attached a copy for you. My interest in this is that if I am going to be a magnet for Pace queries anyway I certainly want to do the best by them as many have done for me. Oh yes, and the question is whether or not you all have answered the question was she or was she not a Poythress? Look forward to hearing from you and thanks. John M. Poythress (VKRatliff@aol.com).....and a Mississippi boy ought to recognize that "handle". Pace-Poythress controversy Poythress references to possible marriage of Richard Pace to Rebecca Poythress. Submitted by John Maynard Poythress. *The Poythress Family- A Study of Francis(1),Francis(2), Frances(3), and Francis(4) by William B. Hall of Selma, Alabama. Wm & Mary Quarterly Vol. 14 (1934), pgs. 77-83. *Wm & Mary Quarterly Vol. 27 (1918-1920), pgs. 37-38, Deed by By Burrell Green and his wife Anne(Poythress...sister to Rebecca?)and Francis Poythress...etc. *The Edward Pleasants Valentine Papers. See Wm. & Mary Quarterly, Series 2, Vol. 10 (1930). *Colonial and Revolutionary Lineages of America, Vol. 24, Pub. 1968 The American Historical Society, NY. Page 293 ff. First Poythress line: Captain Francis (1) Poythress, father of Major Francis (2) Poythress. Major Francis (2) Poythress m. Rebecca Coggin (likely Rebecca Wynn Coggin). Children: John Poythress (m. Mary Batte 1690), daughter: Elizabeth, son: William, daughter: Rebecca (the Rebecca in question as to whether she married Richard Pace). *Some Southern Colonial Families, Vol. 2, by David A. Avant, Jr., Pub. by L'Avant Studios, Box 1711, Tallahassee, 1982. Chapter V: Pace Family of England, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, & Georgia. Working chart: "Richard Pace- b. ca 1675 Va., will proved Feb. 1738, Bertie County, NC, removed from Virginia to NC ca 1723-1726, m. Rebecca _______. Mr. Avant is vigorous in his point that Richard Pace's wife Rebecca was not a Poythress. [I have excerpted this material from Mr. Avant's book and the complete text can be found following Mr. Poythress' citations. -Webmaster] *See family group sheets "Pace" and "Poythress" of Phyllis Lindenmeyer, 1902 Pine Lake Drive, W. Columbia, S. C.29169 ...Mrs. Lindenmeyer actively researching Pace/Poythress in 1995, has very comprehensive line of Richard Pace/Rebecca Poythress with ten issue. * Historical Southern Families, John Bennett Boddie, Volume IV, "Poythress": "III Rebecca Poythress. Circumstantial evidence is strong that she married Richard Pace, d. 1738, and removed with him to N. C. (VHG 168). According to family tradition, this Richard Pace m. a Rebecca Poythress. In 1715 Francis Poythress, Sen., sold 100 acres to Peter Grammar on Holly Bushes Branch, on the line of Richard Pace. (P. G. B. 1718-1728, 63). On 11-11=1718, Richard Pace and Francis Poythress sold 400 acres on Old Town Run, adjoining the lands of Rosser and Goodrich.". -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source: Some Southern Colonial Families, Vol. 2, by David A. Avant, Jr., Pub. by L'Avant Studios, Box 1711, Tallahassee, 1982. Chapter V: Pace Family of England, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, & Georgia. pp. 209-212 Note: numbers in parenthesis indicate the number of generations from Richard Pace of Jamestown. Col. Avant lists RICHARD PACE (4) as the great-grandson of Richard of Jamestown. Some in the Pace Society have referred to him as Richard Pace III because he would be the third Richard Pace in that line. Mr. Avant's method is accepted genealogical practice; the Pace Society method is not. The following is quoted verbatim from Col. Avant's book: It seems unthinkable to this writer to leave the records of RICHARD PACE (4) without addressing the riddle of the maiden name of his wife, Rebecca. The Pace Society Bulletin #6 (Dec., 1968) offers the hypothesis that Richard (4) (called Richard III in the article) married REBECCA POYTHRESS, PROBABLY the daughter of FRANCIS POYTHRESS , SR.(d. ca. 1690). The argument considering this possibility is based primarily on the fact that RICHARD (4) paid FRANCIS POYTHRESS, JR. £100 in 1718 for a 300 acre tract of land which had formerly been given to REBECCA POYTHRESS by her mother, an older REBECCA POYTHRESS, plus a 100 acre tract of land belonging to the said RICHARD PACE. The Pace Society Bulletin #44 (June 1978) has another article concerning this by MRS. RUTH R. BROCK KRAMER who states that, "RICHARD PACE married REBECCA about 1699. Their eldest child was born 1700. AUTHORITIES AGREE THAT SHE WAS REBECCA POYTHRESS." MRS. KRAMER also states "IT HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED THAT MARY, WIFE OF RICHARD PACE(3), WAS A DAUGHTER OF JOHN KNOWLES AND HIS WIFE MARY. Who the "AUTHORITIES" were or who "ESTABLISHED" the maiden name of MARY as "KNOWLES' is carefully ignored. MRS. KRAMER continues her undocumented contribution by stating that ELIZABETH PACE, DAUGHTER OF RICHARD AND MARY PACE, MARRIED JOHN HAMLIN, SR. This now becomes thoroughly discredited as there is ample proof that CAPT. JOHN HAMLIN, SR., MARRIED ELIZABETH TAYLOR (NOT PACE) and this writer, as one of their descendants, has unquestioned documentation of this fact. A letter written to MRS. ELEANOR PACE TERRELL 20 MAY 1971 by MISS MAUD KELLY, Attorney, who devoted over forty years accumulating Pace family records, states on p. 5 of the letter that RICHARD PACE (4) DID NOT MARRY A POYTHRESS and, "FURTHERMORE, THE REBECCA POYTHRESS WHOM SOME CLAIM AS HIS WIFE WAS BORN ABOUT 1714, WHEREAS RICHARD AND REBECCA PACE HAD GIRLS BORN IN THE 1690'S AND A SON, RICHARD, BORN 1699-1700, WHICH IS 14 YEARS AT LEAST BEFORE HIS SO CALLED [alleged] MOTHER WAS BORN." The patent for 1,000 acres in Charles City Co., Va., (in that portion which became Prince George in 1702) dated 29 Apr. 1692, granted to (MRS.) REBECCA POYTHRESS, late in the tenure of EDWARD ARLINGTON, deceased, and found to escheat, etc. (NUGENT, 2:378), proves (1) that REBECCA was a widow, (2) that her husband must have died before 1692, and (3) therefore her children, including REBECCA, the younger, were born before 1692. MISS KELLY, therefore, erred in her estimation that REBECCA, THE YOUNGER, was born ca. 1714. However, MISS KELLY in her notarized account of the PACE family, does not enter the melee and has no mention, pro or con, concerning the conjectural and unproved theory that REBECCA (PACE) "THE YOUNGER'S" maiden name was "POYTHRESS." Prince George Co., VA, Wills & Deeds (1713-1728), p. 502: 11 Dec. 1721 - Indenture in which BURRELL GREEN and ANNE, HIS WIFE, and FRANCIS POYTHRESS, of Surry Co., Va., sell to ROBERT HUNNICUT, of Prince George Co., shoemaker, a tract of land in Prince George Co. containing 200 acres...BEING PART OF A PATENT FOR 1`,000 ACRES GRANTED TO [MRS.] REBECCA POYTHRESS, BY ESCHEAT, DATED 29 Apr. 1692 ... THE MOIETY OF ONE-HALF OF THE PATENT [500 Acres] BEING IN POSSESSION OF LITTLEBERRY EPES AND 300 ACRES MORE OF SAID PATENT GIVEN TO REBECCA POYTHRESS, DAUGHTER OF THE SAID REBECCA, THE PANTENTEE, AND THE OTHER 200 ACRES, THE RESIDUE, WAS GIVEN TO THE SAID ANNE [GREEN] AND IS BOUNDED BY THE SAID REBECCA'S 300 ACRES. Witnesses: JOSEPH SIMMONS, ABR. ODUIM, and JAMES JONES. Recorded 12 Dec. 1721. COMMENT: [by Col. Avant] The proponents of the REBECCA "POYTHRESS" theory cite the above record as their evidence. An analysis by this writer seems to indicate the opposite. RICHARD and REBECCA PACE had been married more than 20 years when the above deed was written and had children of adult age. If the 300 acres described had belonged to REBECCA, WIFE OF RICHARD PACE, it would have belonged to RICHARD PACE, IN RIGHT OF HIS WIFE, and he would have been cited as the owner of the 300 acres, NOT REBECCA POYTHRESS. ANNE POYTHRESS is clearly described as wife of BURRELL GREEN but REBECCA is NEVER cited as the wife of RICHARD PACE NOR AS "REBECCA PACE". It is particularly noted that IN THE YEAR 1721 (date of the deed) the 300 acres is still described as belonging to "THE SAID REBECCA [POYTHRESS]," NOT REBECCA, WIFE OF RICHARD PACE WOULD HAVE BEEN THE LEGAL OWNER IF REBECCA POYTHRESS HAD BEEN HIS WIFE. (End of quoted material from Col. Avant) Larry Pace Pace Society of America Membership Chairman pace.membership@pacesociety.org LPace1943@comcast.net

I believe this Poythress controversy has been going on for some time. Consider also the following land record between Frances Poythress and Richard Pace which I believe shows a joint ownership between them. While other transactions on this day show a business relationship, some could consider this transaction to show a possible closer relationship... John Pace This Indenture made this eleventh Day of November in the year of our Lord God One thousand seven hundred and eighteen. Between Richard Pace and Francis Poythress of the County of Prince George of the one part and Thomas Goodwynne of the County of Surry of the other part, Witnesseth that the said Richard Pace and Francis Poythress for divers good causes and considerations then thereunto moving, but more especially for and in consideration of the sum of One hundred pounds Sterl: to them in hand paid by the said Thomas Goodwynne at and before the ensealing and delivery of these presents the rect whereof the said Richard Pace and Francis Poythress doth hereby acknowledge they themselves to be therewith fully satisfied contented and paid and thereof doth aquire release and discharge the said Thomas Goodwynne his Ex Hath given granted bargained sold remised, released, and for ever quitted claim, and by these presents the said Richard Pace and Francis Poythress doth for themselves ! their heirs Exrs and Admts forever give grant bargain sell remise release and for ever quit claim unto the said Thomas Goodwynne and to his heirs forever to all that seat tract parcell or dividend of Land situate lying and being in the Pssh of Westopher in the County of Prince George contain by estimation four hundred acres of Land, be it more or less and bounded Viz: beginning at the Path on the Old Town run, where it crosses the same, leading from Old Michael Rossers plantation to Edward Goodriches plantation, and running thence Westwardly as the path leads along the said Rossers corn field fence to the upper end of the same and from thence west nineteen degrees north along a line of marked trees to a corner oak in the head of a bottom thence down that bottom by a line of mark trees to the runn between Richard Paces plantation where he now lives, and the plantation whereon John Whitmore more lately lived, and so down that runn to the Path at the beginning, together with Tw! o hundred acres of Land at the head of the said Richard Paces dividend, beginning at his southern corner tree and running east fifty chaines to a red oake, thence No. One hundred and sixty chains to the line dividing this land from lands which did belong to Mr. Cha. Anderson Decsd: thence West fifty chains, thence So. One hundred and sixty chains to the beginning. To have and to hold the said lands and premises hereby granted unto the said Thomas Goodwynne and to his heirs forever, together with all houses Orchards, Gardens, Woods, underwoods, wayes, Pastures etc. and all other the apputenances thereon or thereunto belonging or in any wise appurtaining, so that neither the said Richard Pace nor Francis Poythress nor their heirs nor any other person or persons whatever claiming or to claim by from or under them or either of them shall not at any time hereafter have any right title interest claims or demand of in or too the sd. Lands and premises, but that the same with every ! part and parcell thereof shall be and forever hereafter enure to the only sole proper use of and behoof of him the said Thomas Goodwynne and to his heirs forever. In Witness whereof we have hereunto set our hands and affixed our seals the day and year first above written. Peter Wynne Richd: Pace (sealed with red wax) John (B) Bonner Ff. Poythress (sealed with red wax) Thomas Poythress Recorded Dec. 9, 1718 ----- Original Message ----- From: <genealogy@snuffy.britishlibrary.net> To: <PACE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:09 AM Subject: RE: [PACE-L] Poythress > Hi Joyce. Thanks for the reply. > > I don't understand how that record could be interpreted to mean Richard > was married to Rebecca Poythress. Sounds to me as if Francis Poythress > owned a tract of land which included the plantations of Richard Pace, > Joseph Carter, Edward Crosland, Thomas Kirkland, and Michael Rosser, Sr., > and in 1718 Richard Pace bought the title to the land. He lived on the > land before he bought it, but so apparently did all these other chaps, and > there seems to be no suggestion that they were living there because they > were related to Francis Poythress by marriage. (Is there? I could not > find anything to indicate it.) > > A fuller version of that entry reads as follows: > > "Prince George Wills and Deeds, p. 269, November 11, 1718 > Frances Poythress, the Elder, of Westover Parish, Prince George County, to > Richard Pace of the same, "for divers good causes and considerations him > there unto wavering but more especially for and in consideration of the > value of One hundred pounds Sterling to him in hand paid by the said > Richard Pace" for the land "Whereon the said Richard Pace now liveth, the > plantation whereon Joseph Carter, Edward Crossland, Thomas Kirkland, & > Michael Rosser Senr. Liveth...being about four hundred acres bounded on > the lands of the said Francis Poythress according to several Lines of > Marked Trees lately made between the said Francis and the said Richard." > Wit: Peter Wynne, John (B) Bonner, Thomas Poythress ff. Poythress > > This seems to make it clear that the basis for the deal was cash paid on > the nail. > > On the same day we have: > > "Nov. 11, 1718 Francis Poythress of Westover Parish, Pr. Geo. Co. to > Thomas Goodwyn of Surry Co., 100 acres in Westover Parish, Pr. Geo. next > to Peter Grammer, and lands lately purchased of Richard Pace by said > Francis Poythress > F. Poythress > Wit: > Peter Wynne > John (JB) Bonner > Thomas Poythress " > > and > > "Nov. 11, 1718 Richard Pace and Francis Poythress of Pr. Geo. Co. to > Thomas Goodwyn of Surry Co. for £ 100, 400 acres in Westopher Par. bounded > by Ol Town Run, path from old Michael Rosser's plantation, Edward > Goodrich's, Richard Pace's, place where John Whittmore lately lived > together with 200 acres of land at head of Richard Pace's dividend, next > to Mr. Charles Anderson, dec'd, > F. Poythress > Richard Pace > Wit: > Peter Wynne > John (JB) Bonner > Thomas Poythress " > > To me these records just show that Francis Poythress, Richard Pace, Thomas > Goodwyn and John Bonner were all conducting land transactions between one > another, for money not for love, and they all went to court on 11 November > 1718 to get it sorted. > > The deed of 1721, in which Rebecca is referred to as Rebecca Poythress > (not Rebecca Pace), seems to me to show that Rebecca Poythress was not > married to Richard Pace, else she would have been referred to as Rebecca > Pace, not Rebecca Poythress. The land in question was apparently given by > Mrs Rebecca Pothress to her two daughters, Ann and Rebecca. Ann is > referred to by her married name, as Ann Green; if Rebecca had been married > in 1721, she would no doubt have been also referred to by her married > name. Since she is named as Poythress still, the conclusion (it seems to > me) must be that she was unmarried. > > "Deed 15 November 1721, from Burrell Green and Ann, his wife, and Francis > Poythress all of Surry County, conveying a tract of land in Prince George > County to Robert Hunnicut patented by Rebecca Poythress (being in all 1000 > A.) on 29 April 1692, half of which land is in the possession of > Littleberry Eppes, 300 acres of said land was given to Rebecca Poythress a > daughter of said Rebecca, and 200 A. to the said Ann Green." > > What do you think? > > Ellen > > > > > ==== PACE Mailing List ==== > Check out the Pace GenConnect Boards where you can post or peruse Pace > Bibles, Obits, Bios, Deeds, Wills, Queries, etc. Bookmark this URL: > http://boards.ancestry.com >

Would be interesting, though, to know whether he was Zilpha's or not. Not my line, but interesting. On the 1880 census there is a girl named Bettie Garner b. 1862 living with Zilpha and her husband in Selma. She is described as daughter but if the record is correct (big IF) she was born eight years before their marriage and is nine years older than the eldest of the other children. It doesn't seem likely Bettie could be Henry Garner's daughter from a previous marriage as he would have been only 16 when she was born. (Again, that's IF the census records are correct). So whose daughter is she? She is the right age to be the same child as the Frances E. Pace living in the household of John Pace on the 1870 census (Frances Elizabeth, hence Bettie, perhaps). Meanwhile McDaniel Pace, four years older than Bettie and grown and married, is living with his wife and son Leonard in Beulah. Perhaps McDanel and Bettie were brother and sister, both born to Zilpha long before her marriage to Mr Garner. And Bettie took the surname of her stepfather and became a Garner, whereas the boy, McDaniel, was given land by his grandfather and kept the name of Pace. This is just speculation, but it seems to me that if there were TWO unaccounted-for children, that makes it more likely that Zilpha was the mother. DNA might possibly give a satisfying answer, yea or nay. And if so, then the descendants of McDaniel Pace would know which male line he came from. Ellen

Did I overstate the case when I said that I don't think we know the name of Richard's wife? Is the Poythress theory still alive? Does anyone on this list argue that Rebecca Poythress was Richard's wife? I would be very interested to hear the reasoning, provided it is based on the primary sources. I have never been able to grasp why people thought Poythress might have been the wife, so would be glad to have it explained. Ellen At 21:26 01/01/2006 -0500, Gordon W. Pace wrote: >Barbara: >I don't know if you have this info, but I have that Thomas William >Pace was son of John Pace b. abt 1775 m. Sarah, John was a son of >Silas Pace, Sr. b. 1726 NC m. Mary Newsome, and Silas was a son of >Richard Pace and Elizabeth Cain. Richard was a son of Richard Pace >and Rebecca Poythress (surname not proven). >Gordon W. Pace >-----Original Message----- > >From: barbara baker <obbaker@ktc.com> > >Sent: Dec 31, 2005 5:30 PM > >To: PACE-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: Re: [PACE-L] another John Pace ?? > > > >Sorry about my "tracking" the wrong line and ending up with the wrong son, > >etc. You are correct. > > > >Thanks for the names of John Pace's children. I only had the one, Thomas > >William Pace. > > > >For Thomas William Pace I have b. 1812 in Abbeville, S.C. and d. > 1866 in TX. > >m UNK Drucilla, b 1816 in S.C. > >Had 10 children born between 1835 and 1864 (have years if anyone is > >interested), but again this Pace family continued to stay with some of the > >same names which help us as we research, and also hinder us keeping the > >generations apart. <grin> > >Children: John Davis, William T., Silas M., Haywood D., Calvin D., Cain, > >Ohel Dahl, Thomas, Major, and Ewel Ulie P. > > > >I go no farther on this line and no true documentation on any. If needed by > >anyone I could possibly get documentation on the death of Thomas William > >Pace in Texas, as most of the Paces stayed within the same Piney woods area > >of NE Texas. And as his death date is only a couple of years > after his last > >child was born there is a big possibility that some of his children stayed > >in the same general area. I have pictures of some of the Pace > headstones in > >NE Texas, and may make another trip up that direction during > Spring Break or > >next summer. (employed by school) > > > >Feel free to make any corrections that you see, as I am always glad to > >locate any misinformation, or information that makes me dig deeper to prove > >mine. > > > >I had not heard that the wife of Richard born about 1665 might not > have been > >married to a Poythress, and would be glad to hear more about this. > > > >I still stay with the Richard and Isabella Smythe being the correct couple, > >but no real proof yet. Not in hand. Do know they were the first Pace > >people to come to Jamestowne. At least all documentation that I have seen > >shows that. Wish I knew which ship they came across on. > > > >Thanks, Barbara > > > > > > > >==== PACE Mailing List ==== > >Check out the Pace GenConnect Boards where you can post or peruse > Pace Bibles, Obits, Bios, Deeds, Wills, Queries, etc. Bookmark > this URL: http://boards.ancestry.com > > > > >________________________________________ >PeoplePC Online >A better way to Internet >http://www.peoplepc.com > > >==== PACE Mailing List ==== >You can search archived messages from the Pace Mailing List by going >to http://searches.rootsweb.com. If you need instructions just ask >me - gordonpace@comcast.net

Virginia Marriages Vol 2 Part 2 page 25,Under the Poythress family notes Rebecca Poythress -m- Richard Pace but no date given several records indicate they married but no dates given Va Record Vol 2 Part 2 Page 146 Richard Pace d- 1738 believed to have -m- Rebecca Poythress d/o Francis Poythress & Rebecca Goggin I also found one other reference that mention that Richard Pace removed to NC in the Will of Richard Pace of Bertie NC Feb court 1738 it mention his wife name as Rebecca so when you put it all togather more or less leads one to believe Rebecca Poythress was Richard Pace's wife... but I am finding in 1700 records its so hard to prove up things like I like.... ((Grin)) Does this Help Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: <genealogy@snuffy.britishlibrary.net> To: <PACE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 7:09 AM Subject: RE: [PACE-L] Poythress > Hi Joyce. Thanks for the reply. > > I don't understand how that record could be > interpreted to mean Richard was married to > Rebecca Poythress. Sounds to me as if Francis > Poythress owned a tract of land which included > the plantations of Richard Pace, Joseph Carter, > Edward Crosland, Thomas Kirkland, and Michael > Rosser, Sr., and in 1718 Richard Pace bought the > title to the land. He lived on the land before > he bought it, but so apparently did all these > other chaps, and there seems to be no suggestion > that they were living there because they were > related to Francis Poythress by marriage. (Is > there? I could not find anything to indicate it.) > > A fuller version of that entry reads as follows: > > "Prince George Wills and Deeds, p. 269, November 11, 1718 > Frances Poythress, the Elder, of Westover Parish, > Prince George County, to Richard Pace of the > same, "for divers good causes and considerations > him there unto wavering but more especially for > and in consideration of the value of One hundred > pounds Sterling to him in hand paid by the said > Richard Pace" for the land "Whereon the said > Richard Pace now liveth, the plantation whereon > Joseph Carter, Edward Crossland, Thomas Kirkland, > & Michael Rosser Senr. Liveth...being about four > hundred acres bounded on the lands of the said > Francis Poythress according to several Lines of > Marked Trees lately made between the said Francis and the said Richard." > Wit: Peter Wynne, John (B) Bonner, Thomas Poythress ff. Poythress > > This seems to make it clear that the basis for > the deal was cash paid on the nail. > > On the same day we have: > > "Nov. 11, 1718 Francis Poythress of Westover > Parish, Pr. Geo. Co. to Thomas Goodwyn of Surry > Co., 100 acres in Westover Parish, Pr. Geo. next > to Peter Grammer, and lands lately purchased of > Richard Pace by said Francis Poythress > F. Poythress > Wit: > Peter Wynne > John (JB) Bonner > Thomas Poythress " > > and > > "Nov. 11, 1718 Richard Pace and Francis Poythress > of Pr. Geo. Co. to Thomas Goodwyn of Surry Co. > for £ 100, 400 acres in Westopher Par. bounded by > Ol Town Run, path from old Michael Rosser's > plantation, Edward Goodrich's, Richard Pace's, > place where John Whittmore lately lived together > with 200 acres of land at head of Richard Pace's > dividend, next to Mr. Charles Anderson, dec'd, > F. Poythress > Richard Pace > Wit: > Peter Wynne > John (JB) Bonner > Thomas Poythress " > > To me these records just show that Francis > Poythress, Richard Pace, Thomas Goodwyn and John > Bonner were all conducting land transactions > between one another, for money not for love, and > they all went to court on 11 November 1718 to get it sorted. > > The deed of 1721, in which Rebecca is referred to > as Rebecca Poythress (not Rebecca Pace), seems to > me to show that Rebecca Poythress was not married > to Richard Pace, else she would have been > referred to as Rebecca Pace, not Rebecca > Poythress. The land in question was apparently > given by Mrs Rebecca Pothress to her two > daughters, Ann and Rebecca. Ann is referred to > by her married name, as Ann Green; if Rebecca had > been married in 1721, she would no doubt have > been also referred to by her married name. Since > she is named as Poythress still, the conclusion > (it seems to me) must be that she was unmarried. > > "Deed 15 November 1721, from Burrell Green and > Ann, his wife, and Francis Poythress all of Surry > County, conveying a tract of land in Prince > George County to Robert Hunnicut patented by > Rebecca Poythress (being in all 1000 A.) on 29 > April 1692, half of which land is in the > possession of Littleberry Eppes, 300 acres of > said land was given to Rebecca Poythress a > daughter of said Rebecca, and 200 A. to the said Ann Green." > > What do you think? > > Ellen > > > > > ==== PACE Mailing List ==== > Check out the Pace GenConnect Boards where you can post or peruse Pace Bibles, Obits, Bios, Deeds, Wills, Queries, etc. Bookmark this URL: http://boards.ancestry.com > > __________ NOD32 1.1348 (20060102) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > >

-----Original Message----- From: genealogy@snuffy.britishlibrary.net [mailto:genealogy@snuffy.britishlibrary.net] Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 5:27 AM To: PACE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PACE-L] Poythress ...I would be very interested to hear the reasoning, provided it is based on the primary sources. I have never been able to grasp why people thought Poythress might have been the wife, so would be glad to have it explained. Ellen * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Ellen--this is from my notes. Others probably would have more to offer but here is this deed reference for what it's worth in terms of the larger equation. - Joyce Nov. 11, 1718 Francis Poythress the Elder, of Westover Parish, Pr. Geo. Co., to Richard Pace of the same, for £ 100, all lands and plantation where said Richard lives, the plantations where Joseph Carter, Edward Crosland, Thomas Kirkland, and Michael Rosser, Sr. live, bounded by lands of said Francis Poythress. F. Poythress Wit: Peter Wynne John (JB) Bonner Thomas Poythress Recorded Dec. 9, 1718 Weisiger's Prince George County Virginia Wills and Deeds (1713-1728), p. 41.

McDaniel & Harriet A. Wall Pace had at least 5 sons. I found that some of those sons had sons. Follow my notes below and see if you can find or know descendents of any one othe sons and grandsons. I would like to think that there must another living male Pace descendant of McDaniel besides Ida's brother, but maybe that is wishful thinking. The question I would ask Ida Pace Saunders is whether she has traced or knows each of all the living descendants of McDaniel Pace. This probably will not solve the issue of McDaniels birth father, but then some other descendant may provide a clue. Please share this info with Ida and see what her response may be and maybe someone can further help her. Rebecca Christensen cited the 1900 Census which shows McDaniel & Harriet A Wall Pace have 4 sons. "1900 census for McDaniel Pace (McDonald) in Johnston County, North Carolina shows that he had other sons besides Lenoard Pace (b. Nov. 1879). Leonard Pace appears to be living in the household adjacent to his father McDaniel Pace. McDaniel and Harriett (Wall) Pace had at least 3 other sons as well - Oscar, William, and Lester. So, the DNA results would apply to all of these other Pace lines as well. " end MY RESEARCH, based mostly on inaccurate census records, IS AS FOLLOWS: 1900 Census, W. Beulah Twp, Johnston Co., NC McDonald Pace, b. July 1856, 43, md 21 years Harriet Pace, b. May 1860, 40, md 21 years, 10 kids born, 8 living. Oscar, b. Dec 1882; William, b. April 1889; Lucy, b. May 1891; Zilphia, b. Feb 1893; Mertie, b. Feb. ? 1895; Nellie, b. Nov.? 1896; Lester, b. April 1899 The 1910 census confirms the info from 1900 census and adds one more son, Elijah. I could not find Elijah, but maybe he later goes by another name or he died young. 1910 CENSUS Dist 56, Selma Twp. Johnston Co., NC, pg 66 of 70 on Ancestry.com Mack D. Pace, 53, white, married once, married 37 years, b. NC Harriet A. Pace, 51, wife, white, marriage info same as Mack D's, had 11 children, 9 living William M. Pace, son, 21, white Lucy J. Pace, dau, 18, Caroline Pace, dau, 17, Myrtie Pace, dau, 15 Nellie Pace, dau, 13, Lester Pace, son, 11 Elijah Pace, son, 9 Leonard Pace, son, 30, widowed Vergen (?) Pace, grandson, 8, Leola Pace, granddau, 6, Eva Pace, granddau, 5 Norma Pace, granddau, 2 1910 Census, Lower Oneal Twp., Johnston Co., NC Oscar Pace, 28, white, married once, married 7 years, b. SC, father & mother b. SC(Wrong) Lizzie V. Pace, 30, white, married once for 7 years Person, son, 6 Lorene, dau, 4 ? hard to read (Daniel?), son, 2 Lillian, dau, 8/12 Leonard Pace, son of McDaniel Pace, b. 1878 md Lula Creech Mar 9, 1900 in Johnson Co., NC. He registered for the WWI draft at Nash Co., NC. Leonard has one son, whose name may be Vergen b. abt 1902 NC (Ida says her father Elton b 1921 is also a son of this Leonard) OSCAR T. PACE, oldest living son of McDaniel Pace has at least 4 sons: Oscar Person, (no sons at 1930 Census) William Daniel (not found yet) Howard V. (No sons at 1930 census) Leon T. (No sons at 1930 census) 1920 Census, Dist 75, Barbecue, Harnett Co., NC Oscar T. Pace, 37 Lizzie V. Pace, wife, 40, Oscar P., son, 16, Lizzie L. ?, dau, 14, William D ?, son, 12 Lillian A., dau, 10, Howard V., son, 8, Flossie E ?, dau, 6 Leon T., son, 4 1930 Census, Dist 6, Barbecue, Harnett Co., NC Oscar T. Pace, 47, md, married first at age 20, Lizzie V., wife, 50, md, married first at 23, Daniel, son, 22 Flossie E., dau, 16 Leon T., son, 11 Alberta, dau, 8 Walter M., son, 7 All b. NC Next door is Oscar T. Pace's son Howard V. Pace, 18, md, married first at 17, Daunie ? Pace, wife, 20 2 doors away is Oscar T. Pace's son Person Pace Person Pace, 25, md, married first at 19 Maude Pace, 24, wife, md, married first at 18 In 1930 an Oscar Pace, 25, and his wife Amelia, 24, live in Winston Salem, Forsyth Co., NC. Not sure he is a son of Oscar T. Pace, since Person may be Oscar P. Pace. Oscar Temple Pace b. Dec 13, 1882 md Lizzie Pittman Jan 18, 1903 per NC marriage record. Lizzie was b. abt 1880 and her parents were both born NC. Oscar has at least 2 sons per 1910 census, but the names are hard to read. So McDaniel Pace had at least 5 sons that were alive on 1910 Census. Can anyone trace each of these sons descendants, if any, down to the present/ Larry Pace Pace Society of America Membership Chairman pace.membership@pacesociety.org LPace1943@comcast.net

Barbara: I don't know if you have this info, but I have that Thomas William Pace was son of John Pace b. abt 1775 m. Sarah, John was a son of Silas Pace, Sr. b. 1726 NC m. Mary Newsome, and Silas was a son of Richard Pace and Elizabeth Cain. Richard was a son of Richard Pace and Rebecca Poythress (surname not proven). Gordon W. Pace -----Original Message----- >From: barbara baker <obbaker@ktc.com> >Sent: Dec 31, 2005 5:30 PM >To: PACE-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [PACE-L] another John Pace ?? > >Sorry about my "tracking" the wrong line and ending up with the wrong son, >etc. You are correct. > >Thanks for the names of John Pace's children. I only had the one, Thomas >William Pace. > >For Thomas William Pace I have b. 1812 in Abbeville, S.C. and d. 1866 in TX. >m UNK Drucilla, b 1816 in S.C. >Had 10 children born between 1835 and 1864 (have years if anyone is >interested), but again this Pace family continued to stay with some of the >same names which help us as we research, and also hinder us keeping the >generations apart. <grin> >Children: John Davis, William T., Silas M., Haywood D., Calvin D., Cain, >Ohel Dahl, Thomas, Major, and Ewel Ulie P. > >I go no farther on this line and no true documentation on any. If needed by >anyone I could possibly get documentation on the death of Thomas William >Pace in Texas, as most of the Paces stayed within the same Piney woods area >of NE Texas. And as his death date is only a couple of years after his last >child was born there is a big possibility that some of his children stayed >in the same general area. I have pictures of some of the Pace headstones in >NE Texas, and may make another trip up that direction during Spring Break or >next summer. (employed by school) > >Feel free to make any corrections that you see, as I am always glad to >locate any misinformation, or information that makes me dig deeper to prove >mine. > >I had not heard that the wife of Richard born about 1665 might not have been >married to a Poythress, and would be glad to hear more about this. > >I still stay with the Richard and Isabella Smythe being the correct couple, >but no real proof yet. Not in hand. Do know they were the first Pace >people to come to Jamestowne. At least all documentation that I have seen >shows that. Wish I knew which ship they came across on. > >Thanks, Barbara > > > >==== PACE Mailing List ==== >Check out the Pace GenConnect Boards where you can post or peruse Pace Bibles, Obits, Bios, Deeds, Wills, Queries, etc. Bookmark this URL: http://boards.ancestry.com > ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com

I am on the ancestrial hunt for a Seneca Pace (m) from Pace Community in the area of Clarence/ Montgomery, Louisiana. Records indicate that he ran a plantation in that particular area. Not sure of thenamebut I do know that he came from Georgia with his brother and Seneca stayed while his brother went bck to Georgia. Seneca had a daughter by the name of Serena Pace who married a Thompson. Thank you, Paula Broadway

No apology needed, it was my mistake. I misread your post. Thank you for the information on Thomas William Pace. On the name of the wife of Richard b. abt 1655 -- there is an indenture of 1721 which refers to land owned by Rebecca Poythress. If she had been the wife of Richard Pace in 1721, the land would have belonged to Richard Pace (not to his wife), and she herself would have been named as Rebecca Pace rather than Rebecca Poythress. A transcript of the deed, and a discussion of the Poythress issue, can be found in "Some Southern Colonial Families" v.2 by David A. Avant Jr., pp 209-212. Re Jamestown, it would be nice to have proof back to Richard and Isabella, but at present it seems there is none. However, we do have proof of the descent of Mary Newsome back to Jamestown. A very interesting line. Happy hunting, Ellen

I feel very remiss. I have had a lot on my plate lately and simply have not checked this out. It appears it would work. When it was first explained, I thought it wouldn't work, as we do not build up an as-needed fund in the Pace group, but rather we fund on a case by case basis, as some want to contribute to a line that interests them, but not to another. However, the way it is set up, we can have the contributions sent to FTDNA on an as-needed basis and it will work. It will also make it easier to pay, as there are several options for payment. We can do it. I will email Julie and find out if we can get the $30.00 then contact the volunteers to let them know how much we need. Thanks, Charles. As administrator, I should already know this, and I apologize. Roy -----Original Message----- From: Charles Hartley [mailto:hartley@iglou.com] Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 9:10 AM To: Roy Johnson Subject: RE: [PACE-L] illegitimate line funding I've found that the most convenient way to handle contributions for funding is to have the contributor go to http://www.familytreedna.com/contribution.html and make their contribution to the surname project there. Then all I have to do is check our General Fund page to make sure the funding is there, and then email juliew@familytreedna.com and tell her where to apply the funding. She is also the one to contact about the FTDNA contributions. Charlie >No, it doesn't. I hadn't thought of that. I don't remember how that >works, but we have $155 of the $171 required anyway. Because the weekend >and the eThanknd of the month are upon us, I went ahead and ordered a 25 >marker test before I have all my ducks in a row, but I think it will >work out. > >Being away from my main computer and files is a pain. I don't have >addresses for the contributors, and the rule that the committee set up >is that the funds are not channeled through the DNA donor, but through a >third party, one of the funding contributors. However, since I do not >have my Pace bulletins and addresses of the contributors, I had the >invoice sent to Ida. I may be able to change that later, but if not, >rules sometimes have to be bent. I see no reason not to trust her. She >wants to get this done badly. I might be able to change that later. I >would feel more comfortable following the rules. > >I also do not have the email telling how to get that $30.00. I >immediately emailed FTDNA telling them this and that, due to the >weekend, there was no way to get that info before the end of the month. >If we do get it, I will work out the details later. > >Thanks for reminding me of this. > >Roy > >Roy > >-----Original Message----- >From: Charles Hartley [mailto:hartley@iglou.com] >Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 4:02 PM >To: Roy Johnson >Subject: Re: [PACE-L] illegitimate line funding > >Roy, > >Does the $155 include the $30 that FTDNA is offering until the end of >the year? That would put you over the top for the $169 25 marker kit. >Of course you need to get it in before Sunday. > >Charlie (Bowles DNA Project Administrator) > > >>We have $155 pledged toward funding this line, as we have discussed, so >>we can go with a 12 marker and keep the rest back in case it appears >>worthwhile to upgrade, unless others want to chip in. >>

Thanks for your reply. I think I must have misunderstood your posting, as your line of descent does not mention John Pace. My apologies for my misunderstanding. Here is what I know about John Pace son of Silas Pace Sr: John Pace married Sarah UNK, six children, d. 1828. One of his children was indeed a Silas, and I thought you were saying that you had him down as the same person as Silas Pace Jr m. Elizabeth Foreman. But that seems to have been my misunderstanding of your post, so I think we can be pretty sure that John's son Silas Pace was the Silas Pace who died in 1849 without issue. The other children of John Pace were Richard (m. UNK), Louisa (m. Aiken Brazeal), Lucinda (m. Henry Cannon), Eliza, and Thomas William (m. Drucilla Anderson). That's all I know about John's family and have no documentation on any of it. My information on our line differs from yours in a few respects: 1. I don't think we know the name of the wife of Richard born about 1665. It did used to be thought she was a Poythress but I think this turned out to be unsupported by the evidence. 2. As I understand it, there is no proof of descent back to Richard and Isabella because we don't know which Richard Pace went into NC. 3. Silas Jr only had five children, Sarah (m. John M. Funderburg), Serena (m. Peter Pope), Bartley Martin (m. Elizabeth Taylor as you say), Salina (m. Stephen S. Gray), and Miranda (m. Eli Bynum). Thomas William Pace b. 1812 was the son not of Silas Jr but of Silas Jr's brother John (see above). Regards, Ellen

Sorry about my "tracking" the wrong line and ending up with the wrong son, etc. You are correct. Thanks for the names of John Pace's children. I only had the one, Thomas William Pace. For Thomas William Pace I have b. 1812 in Abbeville, S.C. and d. 1866 in TX. m UNK Drucilla, b 1816 in S.C. Had 10 children born between 1835 and 1864 (have years if anyone is interested), but again this Pace family continued to stay with some of the same names which help us as we research, and also hinder us keeping the generations apart. <grin> Children: John Davis, William T., Silas M., Haywood D., Calvin D., Cain, Ohel Dahl, Thomas, Major, and Ewel Ulie P. I go no farther on this line and no true documentation on any. If needed by anyone I could possibly get documentation on the death of Thomas William Pace in Texas, as most of the Paces stayed within the same Piney woods area of NE Texas. And as his death date is only a couple of years after his last child was born there is a big possibility that some of his children stayed in the same general area. I have pictures of some of the Pace headstones in NE Texas, and may make another trip up that direction during Spring Break or next summer. (employed by school) Feel free to make any corrections that you see, as I am always glad to locate any misinformation, or information that makes me dig deeper to prove mine. I had not heard that the wife of Richard born about 1665 might not have been married to a Poythress, and would be glad to hear more about this. I still stay with the Richard and Isabella Smythe being the correct couple, but no real proof yet. Not in hand. Do know they were the first Pace people to come to Jamestowne. At least all documentation that I have seen shows that. Wish I knew which ship they came across on. Thanks, Barbara

Hi Barbara, Could you clarify where your John Pace comes in? Do you mean Silas Sr's son John? I also descend from Silas Pace Jr (through Bartley Martin's sister Sarah). Silas Pace Sr Silas Pace Jr Sarah [Pace] Funderburg (sister of Bartley Martin Pace Sr) Laura E. [Funderburg] Breedlove Laura Ella [Breedlove] Wesson et cetera. Are you saying that you have Silas Jr down as a son of Silas Sr's son John? I would be very interested to hear more. If correct, that would insert a whole new generation for me, but the dates seem to make it impossible, if John was born in 1780. Silas Jr died in 1811, having fathered five children. Ellen

I also have a John Pace in my line, but different parents and dates????? My John Pace was born 1780 in S.C., and died in Miss. He was the son of Silas Pace Sr, who had Silas Pace Jr, who had Bartley Martin Sr, who had Bartley Martin Jr, who had William P Pace, who had Clarence Pace, born in 1898 in Wood County, Texas, and this is the Pace I come thru. So this may just confuse more than it helps, but wanted to share. Barbara Baker obbaker@ktc.com

Yes, in that case I agree. Also, is there any doubt about McDaniel Pace's parentage? Elsewhere in the forums he is said to be Zilpha's nephew rather than her son. Zilpha is said to have married a Garner, though of course that doesn't rule out her being also mother of McDaniel. If there's any uncertainty, perhaps DNA could come up with an answer. Also, I notice Zilpha is said to have had a brother Bartley. That name occurs also in my Pace line (Richard, Silas, Silas). Since it seems there is doubt about the origin of John Pace (McDaniel Pace's grandfather), is it possible he could have been from the Richard line rather than the John of Middlesex line? A given name's not much of a clue I know. Ellen

As I understood the initial message in this thread, the anxiety over getting the DNA test done is because Leonard Theodore Pace, the gentleman to be tested, is the only grandson of Leonard Pace b. 1879. If that is correct (and assuming Leonard Pace had no brothers), then the gentleman to be tested is also the only surviving male-line descendant of McDaniel Pace. There may be other present-day male-line descendants of McDaniel Pace's father, but their surname won't be Pace. I am mentioning this because it seems likely to be disappointing and frustrating for the family concerned if they hope to get a match through comparing the gentleman's Y-DNA with that of the contributors to the Pace study. If the surname of McDaniel Pace's father is known, there may be a DNA study for persons of that surname, and that would have a bigger chance of producing results for them. Ellen