The book you refer to is."Dreadzil Evans Pace and Melita Leverett of Talladega County, Alabama: Some decendants. By W. James Pace 1003 Janet Drive, Lakeland Flordia 33805. It was printed by the author by Genealogy Publishing Service 448 ruby Mine Rd. Franklin NC. 28734 Lib. of Congress Cat.Card # 93-73553. It contains 13 Chapters plus endnotes and Name Index 111 pages.Some pictures. Believe author has copies for sale. . Jack Pace/Williamsburg Va.

Another unknown to me: From the Family Files of Marion, South Carolina Bryant Johnson, b. 10 Oct. 1867 in Marion ,S.C and died 13 Aug. 1926 in Marion,S.C. Buried in Cedardale Cemetery, Marion, S.C Son of David Johnson and Sarah Bryant. He married CELESTIA PACE . She was born 29 Feb, 1860 in Marion S.C and died 4 April, 1944 in Marion,S.C Buried in Cedardale Cemetery. Who were her parents ????

From: Dreadzil Evans Pace and Melita Leverett of Talladega County, Alabama Some Descendants by W. James Pace copyright 1993. Lucretia is my 3rd Great Aunt Lucretia and her husband William Dawson Haynes Sr. had 9 children Melitta Elizabeth Haynes who married Robert H Moon William Dawson Haynes Jr who married Sarah Moon Dreadzil Pace Haynes who married Rosa Woodruff Benjamin Hill Haynes who married Mary Elizabeth Bartlett Lucretia Haynes who married Robert Redwing Parker Nancy A Haynes who married Charles Sisson Weaver Emma Alma Haynes who married James Henry Wilder Ella Haynes who married John Henry Ingram John Jason Haynes who married Minnie Eugene Bell Susan in Bellingham WA

Hey! What a surprise! That is exciting news. Thanks Roy and everyone involved. You can contact me directly if you want any more info about my (our!) family. Ant ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Johnson" <royj@webster.edu> To: <PACE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 1:53 AM Subject: [PACE-L] Antony upgraded > Upgrade has been ordered for this kit, and request sent to apply funding. > We have enough. > > > > I almost forgot to tell Antony about this. I think that would be a good > idea. > > > > > > Roy > > > > ==== PACE Mailing List ==== > If you haven't done so within the last six months, please post a message > describing your Earliest Pace Ancestor and how you descend from them. > Please include dates, places, spouses, etc, if possible. Send the > message to PACE-L@rootsweb.com >

Also by the way there is a book called "Dreadzil Evans Pace and Melita Leverett. Of Talladega County, Alabama: Some Descendants" which might be of interest. Have not seen it myself. The author is W. James Pace. Ellen

She was a daughter of Dreadzil Evans Pace (b. 25 Dec. 1805 in Richmond, GA) and Melitta Leveritt (b. 12 May 1808 GA). Lucretia married William Dawson Haynes. Their daughter Ella Ann Haynes married John Henry Ingram. I'm 3rd cousin along a non-Pace line to Ella Ann's granddaughter. I have that Dreadzil Evans Pace was a son of William Pace (b. abt 1722 SC) and Lucretia Robinson Gardner. William Pace was a son of Drury Pace (son of Richard Pace and Elizabeth Cain) and Mary Bussey. Ellen

You can find this book online in the BYU Family History collection. http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cgi-bin/docviewer.exe?CISOROOT=/FamHist33&CISOPTR=14250 If that link doesn't take you directly to the book, then go to this page and search for the surname Pace: http://www.lib.byu.edu/fhc/ Joe Anderson ----Original Message Follows---- From: genealogy@snuffy.britishlibrary.net To: PACE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PACE-L] Lucretia H.Pace Haynes b. 18 Dec. 1828 in Ga. Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 19:48:25 +0000 Also by the way there is a book called "Dreadzil Evans Pace and Melita Leverett. Of Talladega County, Alabama: Some Descendants" which might be of interest. Have not seen it myself. The author is W. James Pace. Ellen ==== PACE Mailing List ==== Be sure to check the Pace Family Genealogy Forum at http://genforum.com/pace/ and the Pace Network at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~pace

Richmond, GA is Richmond Co. GA. Is this what you meant or does someone not know the difference or is there another Richmond, GA ? The city of Augusta is the large city in Richmond Co. GA. Thought you might like to know. betty in ga ----- Original Message ----- From: <genealogy@snuffy.britishlibrary.net> To: <PACE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [PACE-L] Lucretia H.Pace Haynes b. 18 Dec. 1828 in Ga. > She was a daughter of Dreadzil Evans Pace (b. 25 Dec. 1805 in Richmond, > GA) and Melitta Leveritt (b. 12 May 1808 GA). Lucretia married William > Dawson Haynes. Their daughter Ella Ann Haynes married John Henry Ingram. > I'm 3rd cousin along a non-Pace line to Ella Ann's granddaughter. > > I have that Dreadzil Evans Pace was a son of William Pace (b. abt 1722 SC) > and Lucretia Robinson Gardner. William Pace was a son of Drury Pace (son > of Richard Pace and Elizabeth Cain) and Mary Bussey. > > Ellen > > > ==== PACE Mailing List ==== > Be sure to check the Pace Family Genealogy Forum at > http://genforum.com/pace/ and the Pace Network at > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~pace > > >

From a posting in 1998 on the Haynes forum, it would seem that William D. Hanes born 1932 was the son of Abraham Haynes, born 1781 in the State of Maryland.,raisesd to manhood in the State of North Carolina. He married and lived in Lineville, Ala. He raised 5 children, four sons and one daughter: The boys names were: DREDYIL PACE HAYNES,Oxford, Alabama Dawson Haynes, Texa Ben Haynes, Lineville, Ala John Haynes, Montgomery, Ala. Daughter;s name is not known but she is believed to have married a man by the name of Weaver and lived inTalladga, Ala. William D. Haynes died in the year 1928 and was buried in the Lineville,Ala. Cemetery The name Farris appears several times in the Haynes family. This is a well known name in Fluvanna.

Fould this posted on the genealogical database of Kimball G.Everingham. Still interested in Paces from Fluvanna Co.Va who may have a Connection in Alabama abt. 1828 Lucretia H. Pace b. 18 Dec. 1828 in Ga. died 29 June 1906 buried: Old City Cemetery, Lineville Clay Co. Alabama When inscription was transcribed in 1977 as " Haynes, Lucretia H. Pace 18 Dec. 1828 29 Jun 1906( wife of W.D.) She was married to William Dawson Haynes b. 05 July 1830 in Georgia She is the only pace on there. Would like to know more about her ancestry and descendents. He also had George Cosby who married a Susannah Spencer in prob. Louisa County, Va I have been looking for a connection to my Louisa Cosby b. in Alabama,living with the family of John Walker Pace in 1900. My mother called her " Aunt Fanny" and said she was part Cherokee.

Very true. Patience is a virtue, they say. Thanks for the explanations. Ellen At 13:34 31/01/2006 -0800, Rebecca Christensen wrote: > But at this point, we probably just need to wait to see what the > upgrade test results indicate - whether a shared ancestry is > suggested or whether the whole theory just falls apart with several > more mutations. > > Rebecca > >Rebecca Christensen <rchristen@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 13:20:47 -0800 (PST) >From: Rebecca Christensen <rchristen@sbcglobal.net> >Subject: Re: [PACE-L] Wapping to Rotherhithe -DNA testing >To: Pace-L@rootsweb.com > > Ellen, > Here is my understanding - which appears to be the same as > what you said - just worded differently. If the ancestry of George > Pace of 1859 can be traced back, and then a descendant found > through another son of one of his ancestors was also tested and > this other descendant did not have the "extra" mutations that > appears in participant #8179 test results, but is a closer match to > Group 3a, then yes the DNA results would be more convincing that > there is a shared ancestor between Group 3a and #8179. > Unfortunately, the DNA tests by themselves can't tell us who > the shared ancestor might be. That still requires genealogy research. > This same process of DNA testing needs to be done between > Groups 3a and 3b as they are believed to also share an ancestor, > long believed to be Richard Pace of Jamestown. We have so few > actual Pace lines represented in the DNA study for the NC > Paces. Most participants have been those who have questions about > their lines - not those who believe they can trace their lines > back. We need additional NC Pace lines to be tested especially > those who believe they can trace their lines back so we can > hopefully find the generation and family where the genetic split > occurred between Groups 3a and 3b. > > Rebecca > >genealogy@snuffy.britishlibrary.net wrote: > Let's see if I can get my head round this. > >On the "rules" page FTDNA says of a 33/37 match: >"If several or many generations have passed it is likely that these >two lines are related through other family members. That would >require that each line had passed a mutation and one person would >have experienced at least 2 mutations. The only way to confirm is to >test additional family lines and find where the mutations took place. " > >So the research that is needed is to find out if possible whether >#8179's great grandfather or great great grandfather (or further back >if possible) had any male siblings with descendants. If yes, and if >any of them could be traced and agreed to participate, and if any of >them showed an even closer match with 3a (say, a 35/37 match), that >would be very convincing, have I got it right? > >Ellen > > > > > >==== PACE Mailing List ==== >Be sure to check the Pace Family Genealogy Forum at >http://genforum.com/pace/ and the Pace Network at >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~pace

Let's see if I can get my head round this. On the "rules" page FTDNA says of a 33/37 match: "If several or many generations have passed it is likely that these two lines are related through other family members. That would require that each line had passed a mutation and one person would have experienced at least 2 mutations. The only way to confirm is to test additional family lines and find where the mutations took place. " So the research that is needed is to find out if possible whether #8179's great grandfather or great great grandfather (or further back if possible) had any male siblings with descendants. If yes, and if any of them could be traced and agreed to participate, and if any of them showed an even closer match with 3a (say, a 35/37 match), that would be very convincing, have I got it right? Ellen

Interesting indeed, if it turns out there was a connection. It could be. It seems there has always been a lot of traffic between Wapping and Rotherhithe. Google threw up some accounts of 17th century trials at the Old Bailey. In one of these trials, a man named Richard Badcock tells how he was drinking in Wapping and a man said he would row him across the river to Rotherhithe (where he lived) "if I would give him a dram". Instead, they robbed him. That was in 1766, a long time after "our" Richard Pace. But it shows that at that time people were going across between Wapping and Rotherhithe pretty regularly. These accounts are at http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/html_sessions/T17661217.html. A tunnel was built between Wapping and Rotherhithe by Isambard Kingdom Brunel -- the first underwater tunnel in the world. There is an interesting account of the building of the tunnel at http://www.brunelenginehouse.org.uk/press_cuttings/southwark_news.pdf. According to this article, in the 18th century you could get from Rotherhithe to Wapping just by jumping from barge to barge. I see that Antony says his great grandfather and great great grandfather were barge builders. It does seem to fit with Richard Pace, carpenter, though I suppose we must bear in mind that the carpenter lived a good 2.5 centuries before the barge builders. Still, it's possible. Rotherhithe, by the way, is where the Mayflower sailed from. It would certainly be exciting if the DNA shows a close relationship. Won't prove anything, I suppose, but very interesting indeed. Rebecca, can you tell us what conclusions could reasonably be drawn (if any) if all the other markers turn out to match? Ellen

As soon as I sent the last e-mail, I knew I needed to add the following. It needs to be remembered that mutations or changes in the DNA markers being tested can occur at any time or generation. So the 3 differences in the DNA results between Group 3a and participant #8179 may have occurred at any time between Richard of Jamestown (assuming he was the forefather of Group 3a) and participant #8179 - that's over 400 years. Those mutations may have occurred with the participant, his father, grandfather or at any generation since a possible shared ancestor. That is one reason why FTDNA suggests testing other descendants of an ancestor rather than just one descendant. But at this point, we probably just need to wait to see what the upgrade test results indicate - whether a shared ancestry is suggested or whether the whole theory just falls apart with several more mutations. Rebecca Rebecca Christensen <rchristen@sbcglobal.net> wrote: Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 13:20:47 -0800 (PST) From: Rebecca Christensen <rchristen@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: [PACE-L] Wapping to Rotherhithe -DNA testing To: Pace-L@rootsweb.com Ellen, Here is my understanding - which appears to be the same as what you said - just worded differently. If the ancestry of George Pace of 1859 can be traced back, and then a descendant found through another son of one of his ancestors was also tested and this other descendant did not have the "extra" mutations that appears in participant #8179 test results, but is a closer match to Group 3a, then yes the DNA results would be more convincing that there is a shared ancestor between Group 3a and #8179. Unfortunately, the DNA tests by themselves can't tell us who the shared ancestor might be. That still requires genealogy research. This same process of DNA testing needs to be done between Groups 3a and 3b as they are believed to also share an ancestor, long believed to be Richard Pace of Jamestown. We have so few actual Pace lines represented in the DNA study for the NC Paces. Most participants have been those who have questions about their lines - not those who believe they can trace their lines back. We need additional NC Pace lines to be tested especially those who believe they can trace their lines back so we can hopefully find the generation and family where the genetic split occurred between Groups 3a and 3b. Rebecca genealogy@snuffy.britishlibrary.net wrote: Let's see if I can get my head round this. On the "rules" page FTDNA says of a 33/37 match: "If several or many generations have passed it is likely that these two lines are related through other family members. That would require that each line had passed a mutation and one person would have experienced at least 2 mutations. The only way to confirm is to test additional family lines and find where the mutations took place. " So the research that is needed is to find out if possible whether #8179's great grandfather or great great grandfather (or further back if possible) had any male siblings with descendants. If yes, and if any of them could be traced and agreed to participate, and if any of them showed an even closer match with 3a (say, a 35/37 match), that would be very convincing, have I got it right? Ellen

Ellen, Here is my understanding - which appears to be the same as what you said - just worded differently. If the ancestry of George Pace of 1859 can be traced back, and then a descendant found through another son of one of his ancestors was also tested and this other descendant did not have the "extra" mutations that appears in participant #8179 test results, but is a closer match to Group 3a, then yes the DNA results would be more convincing that there is a shared ancestor between Group 3a and #8179. Unfortunately, the DNA tests by themselves can't tell us who the shared ancestor might be. That still requires genealogy research. This same process of DNA testing needs to be done between Groups 3a and 3b as they are believed to also share an ancestor, long believed to be Richard Pace of Jamestown. We have so few actual Pace lines represented in the DNA study for the NC Paces. Most participants have been those who have questions about their lines - not those who believe they can trace their lines back. We need additional NC Pace lines to be tested especially those who believe they can trace their lines back so we can hopefully find the generation and family where the genetic split occurred between Groups 3a and 3b. Rebecca genealogy@snuffy.britishlibrary.net wrote: Let's see if I can get my head round this. On the "rules" page FTDNA says of a 33/37 match: "If several or many generations have passed it is likely that these two lines are related through other family members. That would require that each line had passed a mutation and one person would have experienced at least 2 mutations. The only way to confirm is to test additional family lines and find where the mutations took place. " So the research that is needed is to find out if possible whether #8179's great grandfather or great great grandfather (or further back if possible) had any male siblings with descendants. If yes, and if any of them could be traced and agreed to participate, and if any of them showed an even closer match with 3a (say, a 35/37 match), that would be very convincing, have I got it right? Ellen ==== PACE Mailing List ==== Be sure to check the Pace Family Genealogy Forum at http://genforum.com/pace/ and the Pace Network at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~pace

Good article on DNA testing http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11080815/site/newsweek/ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.25/246 - Release Date: 1/30/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.25/246 - Release Date: 1/30/2006

Ellen, That is very interesting especially the tunnel! IF- all of the rest of the markers match - then the results will be exciting because we could *potentially* have a 34/37 match which FTDNA intreprets as a "related" match - that is, Group 3a and participant #8179 probably shared a common ancestor in the time period since surnames have been established. Even if we land up with a 33/37 match, FTDNA says the relationship is "probably related." See FTDNA's page on Genetic Distances for 37 markers for more information. http://www.familytreedna.com/GDRules_37.html There have been some projects that have had the third panel of markers (markers 26-37) match while the mutations have occurred in the first 25 markers. But the third panel of markers also has several fast mutating markers, so it will be interesting to see how this turns out. IF -- it turns out to be a "related" match of 34/37 or even 33/37, further research will need to be undertaken as the lineage for participant # 8179 only goes back to a George Pace of 1859. At this point, not enough is known about the George Pace line of 1859 but it might put a foot in the doorway in finding out more about the ancestry of the NC Paces of Group 3a especially, with additional research effort on the George Pace of 1859 line. Now to patiently await the DNA test results..... Rebecca genealogy@snuffy.britishlibrary.net wrote: It would certainly be exciting if the DNA shows a close relationship. Won't prove anything, I suppose, but very interesting indeed. Rebecca, can you tell us what conclusions could reasonably be drawn (if any) if all the other markers turn out to match? Ellen

The differences in mutation speeds (fast/slow) as determined by FTDNA in the early stages of DNA testing have been shown to not always be correct. Marker DYS 390 is actually one of the faster markers rather than one of the slower markers tested by FTDNA. It has been reported on the Genealogy-DNA mail list that FTDNA is planning on revising their designations of fast/slow markers. Of the three markers with differences between the modal values for Group 3a and participant #8179, two markers (DYS 390 and DYS 447) are some of the faster markers tested by FTDNA. It is possible that no additional mutations will appear in the additional markers tested. If this happens then this would be a very interesting result for participants in Group 3a especially and for those who believe they descend from Richard Pace of Jamestown and Wapping, England. The only way to find out is with additional testing. Rebecca Christensen Roy Johnson <royj@webster.edu> wrote: Rebecca Christenson has pointed out that Antony Pace (#8179) matches 22/25 with our group 3a and suggests that an upgrade to 37 markers might be interesting. FTDNA says his 22/25 is a mismatch especially due to a mutation in the slow moving marker 390. This upgrade would have to be funded at $59.00. We have $14.00 in the general fund left over from the last funding. If you are interested in contributing, let me know. If it appears there is enough interest for the $59.00 I will send info on how to donate to the general fund. Roy Johnson DNA coordinator ==== PACE Mailing List ==== You can search archived messages from the Pace Mailing List by going to http://searches.rootsweb.com. If you need instructions just ask me - gordonpace@comcast.net

From FTDNA: Thank you. I have applied $59 from the general fund to kit 8179. The 25-37 marker upgrade is now paid in full. The test will start being run tomorrow. Have a wonderful day. Email any time! Julie Walthall Family Tree DNA www.familytreedna.com Roy Johnson

It just occurred to me that there is a good map of London in Richard Pace's time on the Pace Network, showing Wapping, Shaftesbury, Stepney, and other significant places and landmarks. Go to http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~pace and scroll down to "Searching London for Richard Pace". There is also some other good historical material that you might want to check out if you have never done so. Roy Johnson Webmaster, Pace Network