MIGRATION AND THE ORIGINS OF THE ENGLISH ATLANTIC WORLD, Alison Games, Harvard Uni. Press, 1999 Page 111 ............... Another successful early arrival was Rice Hooe of Shirley Hundred, who was in Virginia as early as 1624. [32] When Hooe testified in court in 1625, he was given no honorific by the clerk, neither Mr. nor planter nor gentleman, yet he served as a burgess in addition to filling other important local roles: in 1639 he was appointed to view th tobacco crop, and he served as a county commissioner. [33] Hooe was typical of pre-1635 residents who garnered offices: no evidence has survived to suggest that he had status proffered by gentle birth. Those who arrived in Virginia a mere decade later in the 1630s, however, needed rather different characteristics to achieve high colonial offices. For newcomers in 1635 who acquired colonial offices later, wealth and privilege were crucial prerequistes. Robert Evelin, for example, was described as a gentleman in 1634, and by 1637 he had been appointed to the Council at the request of the King. [34] Humphrey Higginson was another well-placed young man who was called gentleman in his first land patent in 1637. His first known office was an appointment to inspect tobacco in James City County in 1639. Only six years after his arrival, he was appointed by the king to the Council, and he served on the Council intermittently through 1655, after which he apparently returned to England. [35] notes: [32] McIlwaine, ed., COUNCIL MINUTES, 4 April 1625, p. 51. [33] List of viewers of the tobacco crop, 1639, VMHB5 (1897): 119-123; Beverley Fleet, CHARLES CITY COUNTY ORDERS 1655-1658 Abstracts (Richmond, 1941), p.16 [34] CO 1/8, ff. 21-22; CO 1/9, item 37, pp. 95-96, PRO. [35] Lyon Gardiner Tyler, ENCYCLOPEDIA OF VIRGINIA BIOGRAPHY (New York: Lewis Historical Publishing Company, 1915), v. 1, p.112. Page 112 .............. But however reluctantly some planters held colonial offices, for many of the passengers in 1635, small local offices were the only recognition of their colonial accomplishments. The men who held local positions differed from those who gained colony office in their relative youth and in their lack of social distinction. Thirty-seven men were elected or appointed to local positions, including constable, sheriff, vestryman, justice of the peace, viewer of the tobacco crop, or juror. Except for those men who also held positions on the Council, none were called gentlemen. They were all younger by an average of three to five years when they reached the colony than were the successful men profiled in Table 4.1. Eight of these men had reached the colony as servants in 1635. Freed from service sometime after 1640, they could not hope to replicate the political success of Captain Richard Townshend. Instead, they turned their energy toward acquiring lan! d and cultivating tobacco. The small local positions they held reflected that their political universe rested in the county. Page 114 ............. In Virginia, then, the pattern in place by the late 1630s suggests that servants who reached the colony in 1635 and survived to their freedom would find it difficult, if not impossible, to secure the major colonial offices that had been available to humble newcomers a decade of two earlier. The ascent was harder in Virginia by the 1640s. Even in a decade marked by demographic uncertaintly, indigenous attack, and political upheaval, it was not easy for newcomers to have a significant political impact on the colony. The experiences of the 241 travelers of 1635, both old residents and newcomers, both servants and gentleman, suggest a trend in Virginia toward greater restriction in the availability of offices. Only a decade earlier former servants could gain important colony offices: by the 1630s, these opportunities were negligible, at least for the men in this sample. [Comment: The author is talking VIRGINIA only, she has further studies on the re! st of the English Atlantic World not included here.]

This Ann Baker was evidently the widow of a FLORIDAY before she was the widow of a BAKER..... 1665 3 June 1665. p.554. To the Honoured Vestry of Westov'r parrish. The peticon of Ann Baker widd Most humbly Sheweth That whereas yo'r petn'rs son Wm Floriday is visited by the hand of God w'th Dangerous convulsion fitts wch taketh him comonly every day whereby he is made incapable to labour for his Liveing, and out of motherly affeccon and naturall Love yo'r petn'er doth according to her ability keep and mainteyne him, and hath kept and mainteyned him ever since September 1664 Wherefore yo'r petn'r doth most humbly beseech yo'r honoured Vestry to take it in their consideracon that your patn'r is a lone woman, and hath no servant and a charge of two children to mainteine, therefore yo'r petn'r Doth sollicit that her son Wm Floriday may be exempt from the Levies and the taxes in regard of the premisses, and yo'r petn'r shall pray etc. We of the Vestry present, on serious consideracon do hereby acquitt Wm Floriday of paying parish Levies, and do hereby recomend this pe! ticon to the consideracon of the worpll Co'rt for the acquitting, if they think fitt, the sd Floriday from pyblick Levies, As witness our hands this 15th of May 1665 John Holmwood, James Blamore, Edw: Hill, JAMES IW WARD, Otho Southcott, James Wallaace, Willm Hunt,. William Floriday is hereby exempted and released from all future pyblick services and taxes (except parish dues) upon certificat of the Vestry of Westov'r parish of his inability and povourty. pg.322 VA Colonial Abstracts, Vol III, Fleet

Howdy CUZ, Yes to your question, was it possible for indentured People too Aqcuire land, For sure, Under favorable Conditions With assistance. That Happened in My Powell Family, & In the Hudson Family. IT was very possible. CUZ A T

--- roy.w.johnson@att.net wrote: > > I don't know enough legalese to know whether there can be > a judgment against the estate of a living person, I assume that if the person was still living the order would be against them, not against their estate. However, I'm not an expert. Perhaps someone else can say for sure. Another possibility is that there might be an error in the date of the record which says that Col. Thomas Swann was granted an attachment agst the estate of Richard Pace in 1675. I have only seen a transcription. It is from Surry County Court Book 3 page 98, if anyone is able to check. > > My records say that Richard died before November 1777. I > do not have the source but have seen it. Is there any > chance he died earlier and it got dragged out in court so > that Mary did not get appointed dministration of the > estate for a couple of years? I have not examined the > records to know if there were records of Richard being > alive in 1675. A living Richard Pace does appear in records in both Surry County and Charles City Co. during 1677. So if Col. Thomas Swann was granted an attachment against the estate of a dead Richard Pace in Surrey Co. in 1675, and a live Richard Pace was serving on juries in Prince Charles Co. in 1677, then we seem to have two men of property named Richard Pace. But, as I say, there could be a mistake in the transcription. James __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

I think it is NOT correct. Should probably be 1681 instead of 1661. Apologies. James --- James Blair <jnb05042000@yahoo.com> wrote: > The following record (if correct -- I haven't seen the > original) seems to show that William Briscoe married the > relict of a Richard Pace by 1661: > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > Surry County Court Order Book III page 348 > 8 July 1661 > > Roger Rawlins attorney of Wm. Briskoe who married the > relict of Rich. Pace having brought his accom to this > court > agt. Mr Fran. Tayler and petitioning agt him for three > hundred pounds of tobo % caske due for expenses in the > said > Pace's ordinary and the said Tayler making oath in court > that to the best of his knowledge he never expended one > pound of tobo in the said Ordinary. A non suite is > therefore granted the said Tayler agt. The aforesaid > Roger > Rawlins and damge according the the law with costs al > escc. > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > James __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

One of my best documented lines started in America as an indentured servant. Isaac Hutto came into SC in 1735, served 4 years, and was then granted 350 acres by the crown. That was part of the deal in SC at that time - they were trying to attract those hard working thrifty Palatines. The point being that some indentured servants left a good record. I agree, of course, that many did not. Joe ----Original Message Follows---- From: James Blair <jnb05042000@yahoo.com> To: PACE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [PACE-L] Two planters named Richard Pace Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 05:07:55 -0700 (PDT) Although obviously an indentured servant would start from a disadvantage, I was under the impression that it was possible, with luck and a helpful master, for indentured servants to become landowners.

The following record (if correct -- I haven't seen the original) seems to show that William Briscoe married the relict of a Richard Pace by 1661: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Surry County Court Order Book III page 348 8 July 1661 Roger Rawlins attorney of Wm. Briskoe who married the relict of Rich. Pace having brought his accom to this court agt. Mr Fran. Tayler and petitioning agt him for three hundred pounds of tobo % caske due for expenses in the said Pace's ordinary and the said Tayler making oath in court that to the best of his knowledge he never expended one pound of tobo in the said Ordinary. A non suite is therefore granted the said Tayler agt. The aforesaid Roger Rawlins and damge according the the law with costs al escc. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Who was the Richard Pace whose widow married William Briscoe? And who was Nicholas Whitmore's wife? Any ideas how these widows could be disentangled? James --- Becky Mosely <beckymosely@comcast.net> wrote: > > 1678 Mary Pace married William Briscoe, and Englishman > in Jamestown - moved to Jamestown > > > > 2 SEP 1680 - Judgement granted Xtopher Foster > non-appearance of Wm. Briskoe marrying relic of Richard > Pace. (SURRY COUNTY, VA Order Book 1672-1682, p. 98) 20 > SEP 1683 - Land Patent to William Briscoe, 12 acres, > James City County. (Land Patent Book 7, p.324) > > > 1689 William Briscoe died leaving everything to live-in > Anne Holden, rather than wife Mary Pace Briscoe. > > > > 1689/90 Mary Pace Briscoe married Nicolas Whittmore, > moved to his plantation > James __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

In the second case, Richard Pace is not on the jury, he is the defendant. And "non est inventus" means "he is not found", i.e. the defendant didn't turn up. That would be consistent with Richard Pace being the same person in both cases and being in York County at the time, therefore unable to appear in court to defend the case in Charles City County. Yrs, James --- gnlgy458 <gnlgy458@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > 17 March 1672/3 York County > Inquisition on Escheated lands. Richd Pace on > jury that finds Cornelius Johnatan dyed seized of > 100 acres and land escheats for Johnathan left noe > lawfull heires. > > Two weeks later: > > 3 April 1673 Fleet V. 3 page 316, Charles City > County Court Records page 521 > > Attchment to Hubert Farrell agst Richard pace for > 302 pounds of pork, 336 pounds tobacco he ret'd > "nmon est inventus" [whatever that means] Also > judgt to Capt. Hubert Farrerl in right of Dorothy > his wife "daughter and heyresse of her father Thomas > Drew." > > Would the same man be on a jury in York County on > 17 March and a jury in Charles City County on 3 > April, I wonder? Does anyone know whether this is > likely or unlikely? > > > Joyce <joy_harr@swbell.net> wrote: > According to Bruce Howard's "Our Colonial > Ancestors," p. 75, there was a > jury list in York Co. in March 1672/73 which > contained the name of Richard > Pace. Mr. Howard cites "Inquisitions on Escheated > Lands. York Co. Va., p. > 202. 4th April 1673." He weaves this into the > narrative of the comings and > goings across counties of Richard Pace m. Mary, and > holds it as proof that > this Richard Pace was a landowner in York Co. since > only freeholders were > allowed to serve on juries. > > Bruce Howard seems to think that this was the same > Richard Pace as in > Charles City Co./Surry Co. (final boundary not > decided til Sept. 1689). > Though Mr. Howard's opinions do not a fact make, a > juryman had to be at > least 21 (correct?) so if not Richard m. Mary, then > what Richard, again is > the reasonable question. > - Joyce > > > --------------------------------- > The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free > your email address from your Internet provider. > > > ==== PACE Mailing List ==== > Check out the new Pace Society of America web page > at: www.pacesociety.org, and please join the Pace > Society of America for only $25.00 per year. > > James __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

I don't know if logic alone can answer the questions. Some of the information we need is simply missing. Although obviously an indentured servant would start from a disadvantage, I was under the impression that it was possible, with luck and a helpful master, for indentured servants to become landowners. (Didn't Richard Bradford come as an indentured servant? There are records which seem to suggest that he did, although as with Richard Pace one can't be absolutely certain that there mightn't have been two people of the same name.) At any rate, disregarding the Richard Pace who appears on Thomase Browne's list of tithables, there seem to have been at least two planters named Richard Pace. There is the Surry County record of 7 September 1675, in which Col. Thomas Swann is granted an attachment against the estate of Richard Pace for 400 lbs of tobacco. And there is the Charles City County record of 14 Feb 1677/8, in which Mary Pace is granted administration of the estate of her deceased husband. These two are not the same person. James --- roy.w.johnson@att.net wrote: > I've been doing some thinking and trying to apply > some logic to the connection between Jamestown Paces > and those of NC. > > Landowners in early Virginia usually left more > abundant records tue to their land transactions and > court appearances. It was the servant class that > slipped in under the radar. So it seems to me the > only landowning Paces--at least large > landowners--were the Richard line, or at least we > haven't found evidence of any others. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Oops! Now I called Rebecca Ruth!!!! I think I am getting flaky. I have been 24/7 in hospitals and Rehab centers with my mother in law, haven't been in my own bed for that time. Have a good room in the family dorm here, but it's wearing just a little, I think. They are rehabbing my mother in law to walk again with her walker; she lost that ability while she was in the hospital in bed for over a week. I have my "office" set up in the recreation room across from my mother in law's room and when I get a few minutes I come here and work--helps to occupy my mind. Please pardon my errors! Roy -------------- Original message from roy.w.johnson@att.net: -------------- > Thanks to John Pace's sharp eyes--I made a mistake in posting KIT 65302. Marker > #2 was incorrect. > > FTDNA provides a chart that allows copying and pasting into Microsoft Excel, but > it does not work with FrontPage, the program that I use for the chart. So what > I do is to kick in the extra row for the new post then find someone who matches > or nearly matches and copy and past their markers, changing any of them that are > off if it is not a complete match. Otherwise I would have to type each marker's > value individually, and then you would really get mistakes! I never was good at > that type of thing. > > Obviously I picked the wrong set of markers to copy and paste. I have corrected > this and marker 2 now shows the same value (25) as most of the other Jesse Pace > descendents. > > Ruth, sorry for the slip when I typed Christofferson not Christensen--my fingers > did it without consulting my head. I know better. > > Roy > > > ==== PACE Mailing List ==== > Check out the Pace GenConnect Boards where you can post or peruse Pace Bibles, > Obits, Bios, Deeds, Wills, Queries, etc. Bookmark this URL: > http://boards.ancestry.com >

Thanks to John Pace's sharp eyes--I made a mistake in posting KIT 65302. Marker #2 was incorrect. FTDNA provides a chart that allows copying and pasting into Microsoft Excel, but it does not work with FrontPage, the program that I use for the chart. So what I do is to kick in the extra row for the new post then find someone who matches or nearly matches and copy and past their markers, changing any of them that are off if it is not a complete match. Otherwise I would have to type each marker's value individually, and then you would really get mistakes! I never was good at that type of thing. Obviously I picked the wrong set of markers to copy and paste. I have corrected this and marker 2 now shows the same value (25) as most of the other Jesse Pace descendents. Ruth, sorry for the slip when I typed Christofferson not Christensen--my fingers did it without consulting my head. I know better. Roy

Sorry for my "testing" email. I am away from home and using ATT Webmail over a wi-fi network that varies in strength. I have lost several replies to this message when my send timed out. > Who is this Thomas Pace and where in Virginia did he go? >> We may never find out. He is a servant. Class prejudice was such in early VA that the servant class was not considered important enough to keep careful records on. I am gussing that there could be births or deaths totally unrecorded and a person of the servant class could go through life with no record of fheir existence except the listing as property of a propertied person. It was that propertied person whose record was important. But it shows that there were more Paces in early Virginia than the philosophy of the early Pace Society was willing to admit. There were those in those days who were saying that all Paces in the US were descended from either Richard of Jamestown or John of Middlesex, and that John was probably descended from Richard. Probably these undocumented Paces are the ancestors of some of the non-matching Paces in the DNA samples. We may never be able to make a connection. I am preparing a list of these "miscellaneous Paces" to post on the Pace Network. That will give these records a permanent place on the Internet and perhaps someone will find a connection some day. Roy Johnson Roy Johnson -------------- Original message from "Joyce" <joy_harr@swbell.net>: -------------- > Who is this Thomas Pace and where in Virginia did he go? > > (from Peter Wilson Coldham's "Complete Book of Emigrants, Section II, Ch. > 51, 1656"): > > > > 7 November 1656. Thomas Pace of Bath, Som, gent, bound to John White, > > merchant, to serve 4 years (in Virginia). Walter Phillips of Bristol, > > cooper, bound to Elizabeth Royde of Virginia, widow, to serve 4 years > > in Virginia. (BRO) > > > > jhh notes: > > Som is the abbreviation for Somerset (England). > > BRO is the abbreviation for Bristol Record Office, Bristol, England. > > References are to manuscript volumes entitled 'Servants to Foreign > Plantations." & gt; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== PACE Mailing List ==== > Be sure to check the Pace Family Genealogy Forum at http://genforum.com/pace/ > and the Pace Network at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~pace >

I received this newspaper article from another list but thought it could help someone. Sincerely, Lena Troup County GaArchives News.....Mr. & Mrs. E. M. Pace visit kin in Ala; moving the North Carolina : ************************************************ Copyright. All rights reserved. http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/copyright.htm http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/ga/gafiles.htm ************************************************ File contributed for use in USGenWeb Archives by: Candace (Teal) Gravelle tealtree@comcast.net August 3, 2006, 10:57 pm "The Roanoke Leader" : Roanoke, Randolph Co., Alabama NEWSPAPER Issue of Wednesday, September 19, 1928 Mr. and Mrs. E.M. Pace of Hogansville were in Roanoke on Saturday and Sunday, visiting Mrs. Pace's parents, Mr. and Mrs. H.E. Hester and other relatives. Mr. and Mrs. Pace are moving this week to Gastonia, N.C. where Mr. Pace has a position which is a promotion from the one he has at Hogansville. File at: http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/ga/troup/newspapers/mrmrsemp1538gnw.txt This file has been created by a form at http://www.genrecords.org/gafiles/ File size: 1.0 Kb ==== GADATA Mailing List ==== Use this form to submit your data http://www.poppet.org/gafiles or send files to Virginia Crilley varcsix@hot.rr.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Testing -------------- Original message from "Joyce" <joy_harr@swbell.net>: -------------- > Who is this Thomas Pace and where in Virginia did he go? > > (from Peter Wilson Coldham's "Complete Book of Emigrants, Section II, Ch. > 51, 1656"): > > > > 7 November 1656. Thomas Pace of Bath, Som, gent, bound to John White, > > merchant, to serve 4 years (in Virginia). Walter Phillips of Bristol, > > cooper, bound to Elizabeth Royde of Virginia, widow, to serve 4 years > > in Virginia. (BRO) > > > > jhh notes: > > Som is the abbreviation for Somerset (England). > > BRO is the abbreviation for Bristol Record Office, Bristol, England. > > References are to manuscript volumes entitled 'Servants to Foreign > Plantations." & gt; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== PACE Mailing List ==== > Be sure to check the Pace Family Genealogy Forum at http://genforum.com/pace/ > and the Pace Network at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~pace >

17 March 1672/3 York County Inquisition on Escheated lands. Richd Pace on jury that finds Cornelius Johnatan dyed seized of 100 acres and land escheats for Johnathan left noe lawfull heires. Two weeks later: 3 April 1673 Fleet V. 3 page 316, Charles City County Court Records page 521 Attchment to Hubert Farrell agst Richard pace for 302 pounds of pork, 336 pounds tobacco he ret'd "nmon est inventus" [whatever that means] Also judgt to Capt. Hubert Farrerl in right of Dorothy his wife "daughter and heyresse of her father Thomas Drew." Would the same man be on a jury in York County on 17 March and a jury in Charles City County on 3 April, I wonder? Does anyone know whether this is likely or unlikely? Joyce <joy_harr@swbell.net> wrote: According to Bruce Howard's "Our Colonial Ancestors," p. 75, there was a jury list in York Co. in March 1672/73 which contained the name of Richard Pace. Mr. Howard cites "Inquisitions on Escheated Lands. York Co. Va., p. 202. 4th April 1673." He weaves this into the narrative of the comings and goings across counties of Richard Pace m. Mary, and holds it as proof that this Richard Pace was a landowner in York Co. since only freeholders were allowed to serve on juries. Bruce Howard seems to think that this was the same Richard Pace as in Charles City Co./Surry Co. (final boundary not decided til Sept. 1689). Though Mr. Howard's opinions do not a fact make, a juryman had to be at least 21 (correct?) so if not Richard m. Mary, then what Richard, again is the reasonable question. - Joyce --------------------------------- The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider.

There is a record of a case of trespass 14 Sept 1677 involving a Captain Arthur Allen Pit. Richard Pace is on the jury. He could not be Hannah's husband but possibly from the same family? John Barker's father William Barker was also a sea captain. Becky Mosely <beckymosely@comcast.net> wrote: No clue who widow Hannah Pitt is. There was a Capt. Pitt mentioned in a Surry doc, when his ship burned, but think that was some earlier. --------------------------------- To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre.

Surry County Court Book 3 p. 98 7 September 1675 Attachment agt. estate Rich. Pace granted Coll. Thomas Swann for 400 lbs tobacco --------------------------------- All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine

I don't understand how this would tie in with the headright grant. Are you suggesting that the "relict of Richard Pace" who married William Brisco could have been the "relict" of the headright grant Richard Pace? paceshire@juno.com wrote: It is for sure that Mary Pace was tied into York County. 10,Dec. 1683 Brisco, William as maarrying the relict of Richd. Pace suing George Tarne to Ct. upon a bill of 600 pounds tobo & caske putting plt upon proofe thereof it is ord that same be refered to nwent court. 24, Jan. 1683/4 Brisco, William, Diff between William Brisco as marrying relict of Richd. Pace and George Tarne ord that sd Tarne next court produce his discount otherwise Judgmt to pass for sum sued for last bill being proven by oath of Robert Perry one of the wittnesses. 24, March 1683/4 ref to next court between William Brisco as marrying the relict of Richard Pace and George Tarne. 26, May 1684 Brisco, William granted judgmt, George Tarne; marrying relict of Richd. Pace decd. for 600 pounds tob. & Ca. is ord. to be paid w/ costs als exec. I would guess that Brisco was sueing Tarne for a debt owed Richard Pace 1689 a William Brisco died. 1689 Mary Pace Brisco married Nicolas Whittmore, moved to his plantation. 1692 Thomas Kirkland v. Nicholas Whitmore and Mary, his wife, admix of Richard Pace, one of the executors of Hugh Kirkland, is refered to Capt. Taylor and Capt. Perry for audit. Charles City ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider.

Howdy Cuz, YOU did not ID the Poster; But I found the Cem ALSO. NOW, Have you any idea as to where Your Johnson's Came from into Ms?? I am Connected to the Johnson & Pace's From Middlesex County Va. One thing that I haven't Seen Mentioned is that the Pace Funeral home was Connected with those Burriels in the Polk County Cemtery. SO?? Cousins seems that The Pace's & Johnson's Traveled along Together. IF any one else in interested JUST TYPE into your Search. <Johnson Cemetery in Polk County TEXAS> CUZ A T <atpowelljr@aol.com>

I just posted new results for kit 65302, Sharon Henson's ancestry which goes to this lineage: John Pace b. 1810 Harlan Co, Ky died bef 1880 in Ky Jesse Pace, b. abt. 1773, Surry Co, NC This is also relevant to Darlene's search and Rebecca Christofferson has just emailed me and the persons involved that this resolves some issues about descendents of John Pace. She can explain it better than I can so I am inviting Rebecca to post to the list with her explanation. I made some changes in group 3b, dividing into 3b(1), 3(2), and 3b(3) based on common mutations in certain markers. I would like feedback on whether these designations are helpful or confusing. I have also tried to revise the color scheme slightly to show the differences in marker 2. According to Rebecca, the mutation in marker 2 is especially significant. There is now a clear group with this mutation.\ Roy Johnson DNA coordinator