Under the picture section you have the name Jackson Pace born 1815 but no picture. I have changed my E Mail from [email protected] to [email protected] is this why it is no longer there? Jan Pace

Jon,    Welcome to the list, cousin.     Actually, there are 13 participants from the William Pace/Ruth Lambert line that have DNA tested when counting the participants who have tested at the Sorensen Molecular Genealogical Foundation (www.smgf.org).   So, the William Pace DNA signature is well-defined (Group 3a of the group associated with Richard of Jamestown), but if you participate in the testing, it would verify that you are related to the group versus not related.  All but one participant from the William Pace/Ruth Lambert line are desendants of William's son James with one participant being a descendant of your ancestor Isaac.      You may want to join the Pace Society. (www.PaceSociety.org)  There are several descendants of the William Pace/Ruth Lambert line that are active in the society - including the Archivist/Historian, Bulletin Editor, Membership, and past president Bob Pace.    The Society has a document database of digitized original documents that is available for members only, along with scanned copies of all past Pace Society Bulletins.   This is a good place to start looking at the original documents associated with your line, or to share scanned images of any original documents you might have.   For example, if you have photocopies of the Batton-Pace Bible pages, I think those would be welcomed gladly as I don't know that they are available to other family researchers.   You can also download an easily printable version of the DNA results - current as of June 2008 (the date of the last Pace Society reunion.)     I am aware that there are several versions of the parents of William Pace who married Ruth Lambert.   We can eliminate the version hypothesized by Bruce Howard in his book as that one is definitely not correct - along with several other incorrect theories in the book, some of them disproven by DNA results.  William Pace was not a son of a Richard Pace.  There are NO documents to support it.   William Pace appears to be the son of William Pace (Sr.)   There are several documents to suggest that is the correct relationship.   It also helps that William Pace (Sr.) owned land next to William Lambert in North Carolina, making it very convenient for William Pace to marry the girl next door - Ruth Lambert. Rebecca Christensen -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jon Pace Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 11:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [PACE] Introduction & open question Hi, my name's Jon Pace. I'm new to the list and a complete ancestry research novice. I got interested in my family heritage after receiving copies of research compiled by a deceased aunt. Her name was Georgia Pace Redmond (my father's sister) and I'm told she spent a good deal of time investigating & documenting Pace history in my childhood. While I have the results of her work, I don't have many references to original sources. What follows is the initial part of the list I received, including any known documentation. Please correct anything I post that's been proven incorrect. I'm interested in accuracy, and would appreciate anything anyone can add to help me confirm, correct or expand the list. I also have NO CLUE how to begin researching the gaps. Pointers to good educational materials would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jon p.s. Would I benefit anyone by sending my DNA in without a better knowledge of my tree? Jonathan Bryan Pace (myself) born 5-Jan-1967 in Nashville, Davidson Co., TN married Christy on 18-Aug-1989 Alzo Bryan Pace Jr. (my father, documented from my mother) born 25-Mar-1928 died 18-Mar-1992 in New Johnsonville, Humphreys Co., TN married Joyce Cantrell on 22-Sep-1957 Alzo Bryan Pace Sr. (documented from my aunt's Batton-Pace family Bible) born 15-Mar-1896 died 15-Nov-1967 married Eunice Gertrude Etheridge on 16-Jun-1918 William Wesley Pace (documented from my aunt's Batton-Pace family Bible) born 12-Apr-1856 died 20-Sep-1935 married Georgia Miller on 7-Dec-1879 John Pace (my aunt's records, no references cited) born ~1836 died 5-Jan-1865 married Minerva Jane Batton ~1855 Isaac Pace (my aunt's records, no references cited) born ~1798 died ~1850 married Rachel Baggett ~1829 William Pace (my aunt's records, no references cited) born ~1750 died ~1834 married Ruth Lambert ~1771 She lists lineage back to Richard Pace of Jamestown, but I'm seeing different paths and I have no further record of cited sources. I don't know if she researched them herself, gathered them from Pace Society Bulletins, or a combination of both. Any pointers are appreciated. Jon

Hi, my name's Jon Pace. I'm new to the list and a complete ancestry research novice. I got interested in my family heritage after receiving copies of research compiled by a deceased aunt. Her name was Georgia Pace Redmond (my father's sister) and I'm told she spent a good deal of time investigating & documenting Pace history in my childhood. While I have the results of her work, I don't have many references to original sources. What follows is the initial part of the list I received, including any known documentation. Please correct anything I post that's been proven incorrect. I'm interested in accuracy, and would appreciate anything anyone can add to help me confirm, correct or expand the list. I also have NO CLUE how to begin researching the gaps. Pointers to good educational materials would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jon p.s. Would I benefit anyone by sending my DNA in without a better knowledge of my tree? Jonathan Bryan Pace (myself) born 5-Jan-1967 in Nashville, Davidson Co., TN married Christy on 18-Aug-1989 Alzo Bryan Pace Jr. (my father, documented from my mother) born 25-Mar-1928 died 18-Mar-1992 in New Johnsonville, Humphreys Co., TN married Joyce Cantrell on 22-Sep-1957 Alzo Bryan Pace Sr. (documented from my aunt's Batton-Pace family Bible) born 15-Mar-1896 died 15-Nov-1967 married Eunice Gertrude Etheridge on 16-Jun-1918 William Wesley Pace (documented from my aunt's Batton-Pace family Bible) born 12-Apr-1856 died 20-Sep-1935 married Georgia Miller on 7-Dec-1879 John Pace (my aunt's records, no references cited) born ~1836 died 5-Jan-1865 married Minerva Jane Batton ~1855 Isaac Pace (my aunt's records, no references cited) born ~1798 died ~1850 married Rachel Baggett ~1829 William Pace (my aunt's records, no references cited) born ~1750 died ~1834 married Ruth Lambert ~1771 She lists lineage back to Richard Pace of Jamestown, but I'm seeing different paths and I have no further record of cited sources. I don't know if she researched them herself, gathered them from Pace Society Bulletins, or a combination of both. Any pointers are appreciated. Jon

Sorry, but this is not my husband's PACE line - although they occurred in the same area. The BURGETT info was found in http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:1607437&id=I629548450 Cheers! Jackie Ashley PACE The Woodlands, TX http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=ashley42 ----- Original Message ----- From: Rovaine To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 8:14 PM Subject: Della J Burgett Hi Saw your post on Rootsweb regarding Della J BURGETT and Joseph Hendrix- PACE. Do you have information about Della? Is she the daughter of Josiah Burgett and his wife Loucy as shown on the 1880 Marshal Co. AL census? Regards, Rovaine Brown -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for home users. SPAMfighter has removed 24619 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len

Cornwall, England! That's a new Pace line. Maybe some of our non-matches could be from this line. Wish we could find a male descendent for DNA. Maybe there were none. Roy Johnson -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of JPace Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 9:27 PM To: PACE PACE Subject: [PACE] Emailing: John Wilkinson.htmGrace Pace John Wilkinson >From History of Grant County, Wisconsin, 1881, p. 1031 - 1032. TOWN OF LIBERTY JOHN WILKINSON, farmer; P. O. Stitzer; was born in 1821 in Yorkshire, England; is a son of the Hon. Charles Wilkinson, of England. He lived with his parents until 16 years of age; was a cloth-dresser by trade; but, at the early age of 16 years, began as an apprentice in a blacksmith's-shop. He came to America in 1842; located in Paterson, N. J., where he resided for nine months; then to Pittsburgh, Penn., for nine months; then taking a westward course to Davenport, Iowa, for one and a half years; then to Galena, Ill.; thence to Mineral Point, where he resided for seven years. During all this time, he followed the occupation of blacksmith; and, in 1850, he wended his way to the golden regions of California, where he wandered around for eighteen months; then returned to Mineral Point for the period of two years; then to Liberty, Grant Co., Wis., in 1854, where he lived for ten years; then to Dallas Co., Iowa; then returned to his old home in Liberty, where he has since lived. ! He was married, in 1850, at Mineral Point, to Miss Grace Pace, a daughter of Richard and Mary Pace, who were from Cornwall, England. He had nine children - Joseph H., Christopher, Charles A., Charlotte, Lillie, Helen, Rosalie, Richard (deceased) and John. He has 215 acres of land, valued at $4,000; has been Pathmaster five terms, and School Director one term. In politics, a Greenbacker. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This biography generously submitted by Roxanne Munns. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.17/1657 - Release Date: 9/7/2008 3:30 PM

John Wilkinson >From History of Grant County, Wisconsin, 1881, p. 1031 - 1032. TOWN OF LIBERTY JOHN WILKINSON, farmer; P. O. Stitzer; was born in 1821 in Yorkshire, England; is a son of the Hon. Charles Wilkinson, of England. He lived with his parents until 16 years of age; was a cloth-dresser by trade; but, at the early age of 16 years, began as an apprentice in a blacksmith's-shop. He came to America in 1842; located in Paterson, N. J., where he resided for nine months; then to Pittsburgh, Penn., for nine months; then taking a westward course to Davenport, Iowa, for one and a half years; then to Galena, Ill.; thence to Mineral Point, where he resided for seven years. During all this time, he followed the occupation of blacksmith; and, in 1850, he wended his way to the golden regions of California, where he wandered around for eighteen months; then returned to Mineral Point for the period of two years; then to Liberty, Grant Co., Wis., in 1854, where he lived for ten years; then to Dallas Co., Iowa; then returned to his old home in Liberty, where he has since lived. He was married, in 1850, at Mineral Point, to Miss Grace Pace, a daughter of Richard and Mary Pace, who were from Cornwall, England. He had nine children - Joseph H., Christopher, Charles A., Charlotte, Lillie, Helen, Rosalie, Richard (deceased) and John. He has 215 acres of land, valued at $4,000; has been Pathmaster five terms, and School Director one term. In politics, a Greenbacker. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This biography generously submitted by Roxanne Munns.

I have it somewhere. Not too big a deal as it was denied. Thanks, Roy -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lois Long Carey Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 4:16 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PACE] Hartwell Pace and application for membership in Cherokee nation I Believe that Betty Pace posted a list of the Dawes Roll? on the Pace list. So maybe if you search the Pace list for her Postings or look for Hartwell Pace you will find it. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Please note: My new email address is [email protected] Please remove [email protected] from your address books and files so that we can stay in touch! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Johnson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [PACE] FTDNA Special extended > I'm trying to piece together some information from my memory--I found by a > desktop google search on my desktop (older) computer that Hartwell Pace in > Missouri applied for membership in the Cherokee Nation because there was > some kind of monetary or land distribution or something. I remember also > that Bruce Howard said a lot of people tried to get in on this. Hartwell's > application was denied. So there was more than popularity involved, there > was a pecuniary reason for having Indian blood. Wish I could get it > straight > in my mind or find it--it's a very fuzzy recollection. > > Roy Johnson > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf > Of Janders 45 > Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 3:31 PM > To: Jackie Pace; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PACE] FTDNA Special extended > > Jackie, > > Prior to the Indian removal to Oklahoma in the 1830's, I suspect that our > ancestors (certainly those on the frontier) were a lot more inclined to > kill > Indians than they were to marry or intermate with them, especially during > the Revolution and the War of 1812 when so many Indians sided with the > British or saw the war as an opportunity to chase the white men off their > land. But after the Indians were gone and no longer a threat, our good > Christian ancestors started to feel badly about what they had done to the > poor Indians. Thus began the "noble red man" legend. After a while, > having > Indian blood became a mark of distinction rather than the taint that it > had > been before the Indian removal. Those of us with dark hair and with a > complexion a bit darker than the norm could get away with the claim, and > many had a grandmother or g-grandmother about whose ancestry little was > known. So, the assumption might have been: "She must have been part > Indian > - that must be where we got! > > our black hair." After a generation or two, this possibility began to be > passed down in the family as fact. > Remember that there was an alternate explanation for darker than usual > coloration in a family, and especially in the South, having Indian blood > was > a lot more socially acceptable than that other alternative. Anyway, > that's > my theory about why so many of us have Indian ancestry. Mind you, I > recognize that some of us actually DO have Indian blood. But I suspect > that > this number is only a small fraction of the ones who "think" that they > have > Indian ancestry. > > Just my opinion, for what it's worth. > Joe > _________________________________________________________________ > Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows > Live. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.17/1657 - Release Date: 9/6/2008 > 8:07 PM > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.17/1657 - Release Date: 9/6/2008 8:07 PM

I Believe that Betty Pace posted a list of the Dawes Roll? on the Pace list. So maybe if you search the Pace list for her Postings or look for Hartwell Pace you will find it. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Please note: My new email address is [email protected] Please remove [email protected] from your address books and files so that we can stay in touch! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Johnson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [PACE] FTDNA Special extended > I'm trying to piece together some information from my memory--I found by a > desktop google search on my desktop (older) computer that Hartwell Pace in > Missouri applied for membership in the Cherokee Nation because there was > some kind of monetary or land distribution or something. I remember also > that Bruce Howard said a lot of people tried to get in on this. Hartwell's > application was denied. So there was more than popularity involved, there > was a pecuniary reason for having Indian blood. Wish I could get it > straight > in my mind or find it--it's a very fuzzy recollection. > > Roy Johnson > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf > Of Janders 45 > Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 3:31 PM > To: Jackie Pace; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PACE] FTDNA Special extended > > Jackie, > > Prior to the Indian removal to Oklahoma in the 1830's, I suspect that our > ancestors (certainly those on the frontier) were a lot more inclined to > kill > Indians than they were to marry or intermate with them, especially during > the Revolution and the War of 1812 when so many Indians sided with the > British or saw the war as an opportunity to chase the white men off their > land. But after the Indians were gone and no longer a threat, our good > Christian ancestors started to feel badly about what they had done to the > poor Indians. Thus began the "noble red man" legend. After a while, > having > Indian blood became a mark of distinction rather than the taint that it > had > been before the Indian removal. Those of us with dark hair and with a > complexion a bit darker than the norm could get away with the claim, and > many had a grandmother or g-grandmother about whose ancestry little was > known. So, the assumption might have been: "She must have been part > Indian > - that must be where we got! > > our black hair." After a generation or two, this possibility began to be > passed down in the family as fact. > Remember that there was an alternate explanation for darker than usual > coloration in a family, and especially in the South, having Indian blood > was > a lot more socially acceptable than that other alternative. Anyway, > that's > my theory about why so many of us have Indian ancestry. Mind you, I > recognize that some of us actually DO have Indian blood. But I suspect > that > this number is only a small fraction of the ones who "think" that they > have > Indian ancestry. > > Just my opinion, for what it's worth. > Joe > _________________________________________________________________ > Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows > Live. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.17/1657 - Release Date: 9/6/2008 > 8:07 PM > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

I'm trying to piece together some information from my memory--I found by a desktop google search on my desktop (older) computer that Hartwell Pace in Missouri applied for membership in the Cherokee Nation because there was some kind of monetary or land distribution or something. I remember also that Bruce Howard said a lot of people tried to get in on this. Hartwell's application was denied. So there was more than popularity involved, there was a pecuniary reason for having Indian blood. Wish I could get it straight in my mind or find it--it's a very fuzzy recollection. Roy Johnson -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Janders 45 Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 3:31 PM To: Jackie Pace; [email protected] Subject: Re: [PACE] FTDNA Special extended Jackie, Prior to the Indian removal to Oklahoma in the 1830's, I suspect that our ancestors (certainly those on the frontier) were a lot more inclined to kill Indians than they were to marry or intermate with them, especially during the Revolution and the War of 1812 when so many Indians sided with the British or saw the war as an opportunity to chase the white men off their land. But after the Indians were gone and no longer a threat, our good Christian ancestors started to feel badly about what they had done to the poor Indians. Thus began the "noble red man" legend. After a while, having Indian blood became a mark of distinction rather than the taint that it had been before the Indian removal. Those of us with dark hair and with a complexion a bit darker than the norm could get away with the claim, and many had a grandmother or g-grandmother about whose ancestry little was known. So, the assumption might have been: "She must have been part Indian - that must be where we got! our black hair." After a generation or two, this possibility began to be passed down in the family as fact. Remember that there was an alternate explanation for darker than usual coloration in a family, and especially in the South, having Indian blood was a lot more socially acceptable than that other alternative. Anyway, that's my theory about why so many of us have Indian ancestry. Mind you, I recognize that some of us actually DO have Indian blood. But I suspect that this number is only a small fraction of the ones who "think" that they have Indian ancestry. Just my opinion, for what it's worth. Joe _________________________________________________________________ Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.17/1657 - Release Date: 9/6/2008 8:07 PM

The Indian ancestry legend is common in a lot of families, including mine. I don't recall the exact details, but there was some kind of distribution or something to Cherokees, and a lot of people tried to prove Cherokee ancestry. Again I am fuzzy on the details but I was able to find the application by a Pace ancestor to claim Cherokee ancestry, and it was based only on personal remembrance and an affidavit from a family friend. It was turned down. I'm sure that info is somewhere on my system, but many Indian ancestry claims have been proven false. Roy Johnson -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jackie Pace Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 2:58 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PACE] FTDNA Special extended Thank you Joe. I've found 3 female lines making that claim, but J*, H, & T2 says these females were not Indian on their maternal lines - and is very unlikely they all had a unknown male Indian ancestor. Could these stories be a cover-up for illegitimacy? Jackie Ashley PACE The Woodlands, TX http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=ashley42 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janders 45" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 7:30 AM Subject: Re: [PACE] FTDNA Special extended > Though mtDNA is not of use in surname studies, there are some interesting > applications of mtDNA analysis. In my case, my ggg-grandmother in the > direct maternal line is believed by some to be half-Indian. I am always > skeptical of such claims as I believe that European-Indian marriage or > cohabitation was extremely rare in Colonial times, other than the cases of > traders who lived amongst the Indians and took Indian wives. I had sent a > DNA sample to SMGF (Sorensen Molecular Genealogical Foundation) some time > ago, and I was able to find my line in their mtDNA database a few months > ago. After having deduced my mtDNA genotype from the SMGF information, I > concluded that my mtDNA haplotype was largely Mediteranean and had little > in common with known American Indian haplotypes. Hence, I believe that > the mtDNA results have disproved the theory that my ggg-gandmother was > half Indian. > > This conclusion is dependent upon my assumption that my ggg-grandmother's > Indian parent was her mother, which would mean that I would be carrying > Indian mtDNA, if the half-Indian theory were true. If she had been the > product of a mating between an Indian male and a European female, then she > could be carrying European mtDNA and still be half-Indian. But I think > that my assumption is valid since I believe that European male/Indian > woman matings were rare in those times, and Indian male/European female > matings were much rarer still. > > Joe Anderson > _________________________________________________________________ > See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of > your life. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for home users. SPAMfighter has removed 24619 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.17/1657 - Release Date: 9/6/2008 8:07 PM

Jackie, Prior to the Indian removal to Oklahoma in the 1830's, I suspect that our ancestors (certainly those on the frontier) were a lot more inclined to kill Indians than they were to marry or intermate with them, especially during the Revolution and the War of 1812 when so many Indians sided with the British or saw the war as an opportunity to chase the white men off their land. But after the Indians were gone and no longer a threat, our good Christian ancestors started to feel badly about what they had done to the poor Indians. Thus began the "noble red man" legend. After a while, having Indian blood became a mark of distinction rather than the taint that it had been before the Indian removal. Those of us with dark hair and with a complexion a bit darker than the norm could get away with the claim, and many had a grandmother or g-grandmother about whose ancestry little was known. So, the assumption might have been: "She must have been part Indian - that must be where we got our black hair." After a generation or two, this possibility began to be passed down in the family as fact. Remember that there was an alternate explanation for darker than usual coloration in a family, and especially in the South, having Indian blood was a lot more socially acceptable than that other alternative. Anyway, that's my theory about why so many of us have Indian ancestry. Mind you, I recognize that some of us actually DO have Indian blood. But I suspect that this number is only a small fraction of the ones who "think" that they have Indian ancestry. Just my opinion, for what it's worth. Joe _________________________________________________________________ Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/

Thank you Joe. I've found 3 female lines making that claim, but J*, H, & T2 says these females were not Indian on their maternal lines - and is very unlikely they all had a unknown male Indian ancestor. Could these stories be a cover-up for illegitimacy? Jackie Ashley PACE The Woodlands, TX http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=ashley42 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janders 45" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 7:30 AM Subject: Re: [PACE] FTDNA Special extended > Though mtDNA is not of use in surname studies, there are some interesting > applications of mtDNA analysis. In my case, my ggg-grandmother in the > direct maternal line is believed by some to be half-Indian. I am always > skeptical of such claims as I believe that European-Indian marriage or > cohabitation was extremely rare in Colonial times, other than the cases of > traders who lived amongst the Indians and took Indian wives. I had sent a > DNA sample to SMGF (Sorensen Molecular Genealogical Foundation) some time > ago, and I was able to find my line in their mtDNA database a few months > ago. After having deduced my mtDNA genotype from the SMGF information, I > concluded that my mtDNA haplotype was largely Mediteranean and had little > in common with known American Indian haplotypes. Hence, I believe that > the mtDNA results have disproved the theory that my ggg-gandmother was > half Indian. > > This conclusion is dependent upon my assumption that my ggg-grandmother's > Indian parent was her mother, which would mean that I would be carrying > Indian mtDNA, if the half-Indian theory were true. If she had been the > product of a mating between an Indian male and a European female, then she > could be carrying European mtDNA and still be half-Indian. But I think > that my assumption is valid since I believe that European male/Indian > woman matings were rare in those times, and Indian male/European female > matings were much rarer still. > > Joe Anderson > _________________________________________________________________ > See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of > your life. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for home users. SPAMfighter has removed 24619 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len

Since the topic of Melungeons is being discussed on this mail list, some of you may be interested in this article that was published in the National Genealogical Society Quarterly. Virginia Easley Demarce, "'Very Slitly Mixt': Tri-Racial Isolate Families of the Upper South - A Genealogical Study," NGSQ, Vol. 80, March 1992, pp. 5-35. http://historical-melungeon.blogspot.com/2008/08/verry-slitly-mixt-tri-racial-isolate.html Many thanks to Virginia DeMarce for permission to post this article. <http://www.genpage.com/DeMarce.pdf> View the whole article here or <http://jgoins.com/DeMarce.pdf> here Rebecca Christensen

There is a huge article on Wikipedia about Melungeons; worth reading. DNA testing is helping to sort out the rumors. It is useful for Paces to become familiar with Melungeons since they inhabited the same areas as many early Paces. Melungeon origin might explain some of our non-matching Paces. Here is some information; there is so much more that if you are interested, you will need to check it for yourself on Wikipedia or by using Google: >From Wikipedia More recently, Jack Goins has started a Melungeon DNA Project, with the goal of studying the ancestry of hypothesized Melungeon lines. So far, Y chromosomal DNA testing of male subjects with the Melungeon surnames Collins, Gibson, Gill, Goins, Bunch, Bolin, Goodman, Stowers, Williams, Minor and Moore has revealed evidence of European and sub-Saharan African ancestry: Y haplogroups R1b, R1a, J2; and E3a, respectively.[58][59] This finding is consistent with the documentation and research by Paul Heinegg and Dr. Virginia DeMarce.[60] One Goins line looks likely to be a variety of Y haplogroup L with roots in Portugal, Spain and Italy.[61] Taken as a whole, such findings appear to verify the early designation of Melungeon ancestors as "mulattos", that is, descendants of white Europeans and Africans. The line with a variety of haplogroup with roots in Portugal, Spain and Italy is also consistent with Ira Berlin's research showing some of the charter generation of enslaved or servant people in the Chesapeake Bay colony were Atlantic creoles with European fathers connected to the African slave trade run by Spain and Portugal.[62] >From http://www.whatisamelungeon.webs.com/ The Spanish were colonizing the Southeast before the English got there. The most northwestern fort of Spanish Florida was near Knoxville, Tennessee. The coast of Georgia and both North and South Carolina had several Spanish settlements. Santa Elena (Parris Island) was the largest and is being excavated at the present time. Most of the colonial population was not ethnically Spanish, but was drawn from other groups. Marrano Jews (Jews pretending to be Catholic in order to escape persecution), Moriscos (Moorish Arabs and Berbers who joined the Catholic Church to avoid the Inquisition), Portuguese (Portugal was ruled by Spain for a while at this time), and Catalans from Minorca (an island in the Mediterranean) were all important elements in the colonists. Since many of the Jews and Moors were from Portugal, they were frequently called Portuguese. The Spanish also had many slaves in their colonies, who were mostly Muslim prisoners captured from Moorish and Ottoman ships. While their presence in Spanish Florida in large numbers is not known, there must be some reason why the Indians of the Southeast went from wearing almost no clothing but decorating themselves with tattoos to wearing elaborate, woven clothing with bright colors, including sashes and turbans, seemingly in imitation of Ottoman and Moorish styles. When the Spanish withdrew from North and South Carolina, Tennessee and Georgia under British pressure, they left behind many part Indian children and probably quite a few Jews, Moors and Muslim slaves. Roy Johnson -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 7:11 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PACE] Fw: World Names-Wales I recently met a direct descendent of the Melungeons. If you are not familiar with these folks?they are worth looking into. They were primarily located in the Appalachian Mountains of Eastern Tenn and Western Virginia. They were there very early, some say as early as 1565. Rumor has it that the great Cherokee Sequoia was actually one of them. He wore a turban rather than the traditional Indian head dress.They were not one nationality but no one seems to know exactly how many different factions were represented. It seems likely that there were Ottoman Turks among them. This could also explain the Halogroup J in the Pace study. I do not have many facts at this point other than my friends family tree and his research. As I began to ask others in the region I have?and met more descendents.?It is clear that there were men from different nationalities, Moors, Turks, Portuguese, Africans, who were apparently forced to serve in the Spanish Navy who were somehow set free off the coas! t of Virginia. They moved inland and took wives from the Cherokee. They do show up on the early census records but were apparently not well accepted due to their mixed heritage. Please do not bombard me with questions or accuse me of spreading rumors. I had never heard of these folks until about a month ago. They do seem to be a part of our history that somehow got left out of the books I studied. There is quite a?bit of information about them online. I have no clue what is correct. They would have more than likely known a few of the early Paces along the way. Jim Pace -----Original Message----- From: Roy Johnson <[email protected]> To: 'Lois Long Carey' <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 12:03 pm Subject: Re: [PACE] Fw: World Names-Wales I have several illustrations in my family of how things can get transferred in family lore from one side of the family to another. In one instance, an elderly lady in identifying the people in an old picture identified one person as the husband's brother when he was actually the wife's brother; she just remembered that he was "uncle X" but was obviously fuzzy on which side of the family he was on. My own case is interesting and very puzzling. My brick wall is five generations back in Madison County, Kentucky. The information has passed down that the Johnson name is Swedish (it could be Swedish or English), but there weren't many Swedes in Appalachian Kentucky. My DNA says the male line is West African, with closest matches in Senegal. My nephew and I match with each other but with no other Johnsons in the study, which is much larger than the Pace study--hundreds of submissions. While this conclusion is "iffy", I did run on to a member of a different line going to my g-grandfather who said his branch had a story of African ancestry somewhere but no specifics. That surprised me; most families in those days would not want that known. A very speculative hypothesis: there were Swedes in Delaware and New Jersey in the 1600s, and there were small colonies of free Africans among them. If a Swedish girl or woman had a child by one of those free Africans (Swedes did not frown on this practice), he would probably be raised Swedish, would take her surname, and would marry Swedish. After about five generations, the African characteristics would wash out but the male line tracing would still be West African. This would be an instance of the family legend crossing the female line over into the male line but it would be accurate in this case--the Johnson name would be Swedish but the male line would be West African. So, just a suggestion--could the name Llewellyn and the story of Welsh ancestry come from the female side somewhere, and get crossed over in the retelling to the male side? Maybe not--I think there is a lette r on the Pace Network that says it was specifically tied to the Pace name and that the Pace name was more common in Wales than Smith. That isn't true in Wales proper but is certainly true in the border area that was sometimes Wales and sometimes not. Just some speculation. Roy Johnson -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lois Long Carey Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 8:41 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PACE] Fw: World Names Once again I think of the name James Llewellyn Pace in my family and that of George Llewellyn Pace of Albemarle VA I have been told that my pace ancestors were three brothers from Ireland or Wales. Thru the DNA testing it is believed they are descended from John Pace of Middlesex. Any other Llewellyn Paces known. John Walker Pace, son of JOhn R.Pace b. 1809, had a brother, James Llewellyn Pace b. in Fluvanna Co.VA Lois Carey * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Please note: My new email address is [email protected] Please remove [email protected] from your address books and files so that we can stay in touch! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Betty A Pace" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 5:30 PM Subject: [PACE] Fw: World Names > Since Wales has come up again, I thought maybe some of you might be > interested in this web site. However, I can't get it to work (search). > I got it from a Welsh mailing list. > --------------- > > > Thought you might all be interested in > http://www.publicprofiler.org/worldnames/ > mentioned on today's Radio 4 morning programme. Unfortunately, the site > crashed while I was on it but it seems like an interesting project to > chart where names are found in the world. > > Betty Pace > ____________________________________________________________ > Click for free info on online degrees and make up to $150K/ year. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nlXGPORh7WrqUJefZi4x912 I1 8O4Cpo9DcVgkTobYlPb0KE/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.16/1652 - Release Date: 9/4/2008 6:54 PM ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.17/1657 - Release Date: 9/6/2008 8:07 PM

I have been familiar with the Melungeons for several years now. When I searched my desktop computer, which is much older than my laptop, I found several files and a dozen or so emails. There is a Melungeon heritage association at http://www.melungeon.org Indeed this could explain haplogroup J. There seem to be some different theories. I suspected Melungeon ancestry myself. My great grandmother, who was Jackson from East Tennessee, exactly where the greatest population of Melungeons, existed, was a little dark woman. My mother said we had Portuguese ancestry--"Or maybe it was Portuguese Indian--you know there was a tribe called the Portuguese Indians." One theory of the Melungeons was that they were a mixture of Portuguese and Indian but that may be only one factor--I think further evidence is accumulating that they are a mixture of several origins. There is a "Melungeon lump", a slight unnoticeable bump at the back of the skull, that can be indicative of Melungeon ancestry. I have that lump. You have motivated me to locate the Melungeon stuff and move it to my laptop and my backup hard drive before I lose it. My files go back to 2002 and before. Portuguese ancestry could itself be a mixture including African. In the 1400s many Africans were brought to Portugal as slaves and mixed with the rest of the population--there is no African minority today in Portugal, but their genes are carried by most Portuguese today, helping to explain the dark skins. There is ample evidence of unreported small groups in North America before Columbus also. They just didn't take the word back to Europe because they stayed here. Haplogroup J could easily be explained by Melungeon ancestry. Roy Johnson -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 7:11 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PACE] Fw: World Names-Wales I recently met a direct descendent of the Melungeons. If you are not familiar with these folks?they are worth looking into. They were primarily located in the Appalachian Mountains of Eastern Tenn and Western Virginia. They were there very early, some say as early as 1565. Rumor has it that the great Cherokee Sequoia was actually one of them. He wore a turban rather than the traditional Indian head dress.They were not one nationality but no one seems to know exactly how many different factions were represented. It seems likely that there were Ottoman Turks among them. This could also explain the Halogroup J in the Pace study. I do not have many facts at this point other than my friends family tree and his research. As I began to ask others in the region I have?and met more descendents.?It is clear that there were men from different nationalities, Moors, Turks, Portuguese, Africans, who were apparently forced to serve in the Spanish Navy who were somehow set free off the coas! t of Virginia. They moved inland and took wives from the Cherokee. They do show up on the early census records but were apparently not well accepted due to their mixed heritage. Please do not bombard me with questions or accuse me of spreading rumors. I had never heard of these folks until about a month ago. They do seem to be a part of our history that somehow got left out of the books I studied. There is quite a?bit of information about them online. I have no clue what is correct. They would have more than likely known a few of the early Paces along the way. Jim Pace -----Original Message----- From: Roy Johnson <[email protected]> To: 'Lois Long Carey' <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 12:03 pm Subject: Re: [PACE] Fw: World Names-Wales I have several illustrations in my family of how things can get transferred in family lore from one side of the family to another. In one instance, an elderly lady in identifying the people in an old picture identified one person as the husband's brother when he was actually the wife's brother; she just remembered that he was "uncle X" but was obviously fuzzy on which side of the family he was on. My own case is interesting and very puzzling. My brick wall is five generations back in Madison County, Kentucky. The information has passed down that the Johnson name is Swedish (it could be Swedish or English), but there weren't many Swedes in Appalachian Kentucky. My DNA says the male line is West African, with closest matches in Senegal. My nephew and I match with each other but with no other Johnsons in the study, which is much larger than the Pace study--hundreds of submissions. While this conclusion is "iffy", I did run on to a member of a different line going to my g-grandfather who said his branch had a story of African ancestry somewhere but no specifics. That surprised me; most families in those days would not want that known. A very speculative hypothesis: there were Swedes in Delaware and New Jersey in the 1600s, and there were small colonies of free Africans among them. If a Swedish girl or woman had a child by one of those free Africans (Swedes did not frown on this practice), he would probably be raised Swedish, would take her surname, and would marry Swedish. After about five generations, the African characteristics would wash out but the male line tracing would still be West African. This would be an instance of the family legend crossing the female line over into the male line but it would be accurate in this case--the Johnson name would be Swedish but the male line would be West African. So, just a suggestion--could the name Llewellyn and the story of Welsh ancestry come from the female side somewhere, and get crossed over in the retelling to the male side? Maybe not--I think there is a lette r on the Pace Network that says it was specifically tied to the Pace name and that the Pace name was more common in Wales than Smith. That isn't true in Wales proper but is certainly true in the border area that was sometimes Wales and sometimes not. Just some speculation. Roy Johnson -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lois Long Carey Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 8:41 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PACE] Fw: World Names Once again I think of the name James Llewellyn Pace in my family and that of George Llewellyn Pace of Albemarle VA I have been told that my pace ancestors were three brothers from Ireland or Wales. Thru the DNA testing it is believed they are descended from John Pace of Middlesex. Any other Llewellyn Paces known. John Walker Pace, son of JOhn R.Pace b. 1809, had a brother, James Llewellyn Pace b. in Fluvanna Co.VA Lois Carey * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Please note: My new email address is [email protected] Please remove [email protected] from your address books and files so that we can stay in touch! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Betty A Pace" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 5:30 PM Subject: [PACE] Fw: World Names > Since Wales has come up again, I thought maybe some of you might be > interested in this web site. However, I can't get it to work (search). > I got it from a Welsh mailing list. > --------------- > > > Thought you might all be interested in > http://www.publicprofiler.org/worldnames/ > mentioned on today's Radio 4 morning programme. Unfortunately, the site > crashed while I was on it but it seems like an interesting project to > chart where names are found in the world. > > Betty Pace > ____________________________________________________________ > Click for free info on online degrees and make up to $150K/ year. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nlXGPORh7WrqUJefZi4x912 I1 8O4Cpo9DcVgkTobYlPb0KE/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.16/1652 - Release Date: 9/4/2008 6:54 PM ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.17/1657 - Release Date: 9/6/2008 8:07 PM

I recently met a direct descendent of the Melungeons. If you are not familiar with these folks?they are worth looking into. They were primarily located in the Appalachian Mountains of Eastern Tenn and Western Virginia. They were there very early, some say as early as 1565. Rumor has it that the great Cherokee Sequoia was actually one of them. He wore a turban rather than the traditional Indian head dress.They were not one nationality but no one seems to know exactly how many different factions were represented. It seems likely that there were Ottoman Turks among them. This could also explain the Halogroup J in the Pace study. I do not have many facts at this point other than my friends family tree and his research. As I began to ask others in the region I have?and met more descendents.?It is clear that there were men from different nationalities, Moors, Turks, Portuguese, Africans, who were apparently forced to serve in the Spanish Navy who were somehow set free off the coas! t of Virginia. They moved inland and took wives from the Cherokee. They do show up on the early census records but were apparently not well accepted due to their mixed heritage. Please do not bombard me with questions or accuse me of spreading rumors. I had never heard of these folks until about a month ago. They do seem to be a part of our history that somehow got left out of the books I studied. There is quite a?bit of information about them online. I have no clue what is correct. They would have more than likely known a few of the early Paces along the way. Jim Pace -----Original Message----- From: Roy Johnson <[email protected]> To: 'Lois Long Carey' <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 12:03 pm Subject: Re: [PACE] Fw: World Names-Wales I have several illustrations in my family of how things can get transferred in family lore from one side of the family to another. In one instance, an elderly lady in identifying the people in an old picture identified one person as the husband's brother when he was actually the wife's brother; she just remembered that he was "uncle X" but was obviously fuzzy on which side of the family he was on. My own case is interesting and very puzzling. My brick wall is five generations back in Madison County, Kentucky. The information has passed down that the Johnson name is Swedish (it could be Swedish or English), but there weren't many Swedes in Appalachian Kentucky. My DNA says the male line is West African, with closest matches in Senegal. My nephew and I match with each other but with no other Johnsons in the study, which is much larger than the Pace study--hundreds of submissions. While this conclusion is "iffy", I did run on to a member of a different line going to my g-grandfather who said his branch had a story of African ancestry somewhere but no specifics. That surprised me; most families in those days would not want that known. A very speculative hypothesis: there were Swedes in Delaware and New Jersey in the 1600s, and there were small colonies of free Africans among them. If a Swedish girl or woman had a child by one of those free Africans (Swedes did not frown on this practice), he would probably be raised Swedish, would take her surname, and would marry Swedish. After about five generations, the African characteristics would wash out but the male line tracing would still be West African. This would be an instance of the family legend crossing the female line over into the male line but it would be accurate in this case--the Johnson name would be Swedish but the male line would be West African. So, just a suggestion--could the name Llewellyn and the story of Welsh ancestry come from the female side somewhere, and get crossed over in the retelling to the male side? Maybe not--I think there is a lette r on the Pace Network that says it was specifically tied to the Pace name and that the Pace name was more common in Wales than Smith. That isn't true in Wales proper but is certainly true in the border area that was sometimes Wales and sometimes not. Just some speculation. Roy Johnson -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lois Long Carey Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 8:41 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PACE] Fw: World Names Once again I think of the name James Llewellyn Pace in my family and that of George Llewellyn Pace of Albemarle VA I have been told that my pace ancestors were three brothers from Ireland or Wales. Thru the DNA testing it is believed they are descended from John Pace of Middlesex. Any other Llewellyn Paces known. John Walker Pace, son of JOhn R.Pace b. 1809, had a brother, James Llewellyn Pace b. in Fluvanna Co.VA Lois Carey * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Please note: My new email address is [email protected] Please remove [email protected] from your address books and files so that we can stay in touch! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Betty A Pace" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 5:30 PM Subject: [PACE] Fw: World Names > Since Wales has come up again, I thought maybe some of you might be > interested in this web site. However, I can't get it to work (search). > I got it from a Welsh mailing list. > --------------- > > > Thought you might all be interested in > http://www.publicprofiler.org/worldnames/ > mentioned on today's Radio 4 morning programme. Unfortunately, the site > crashed while I was on it but it seems like an interesting project to > chart where names are found in the world. > > Betty Pace > ____________________________________________________________ > Click for free info on online degrees and make up to $150K/ year. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nlXGPORh7WrqUJefZi4x912 I1 8O4Cpo9DcVgkTobYlPb0KE/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.16/1652 - Release Date: 9/4/2008 6:54 PM ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Though mtDNA is not of use in surname studies, there are some interesting applications of mtDNA analysis. In my case, my ggg-grandmother in the direct maternal line is believed by some to be half-Indian. I am always skeptical of such claims as I believe that European-Indian marriage or cohabitation was extremely rare in Colonial times, other than the cases of traders who lived amongst the Indians and took Indian wives. I had sent a DNA sample to SMGF (Sorensen Molecular Genealogical Foundation) some time ago, and I was able to find my line in their mtDNA database a few months ago. After having deduced my mtDNA genotype from the SMGF information, I concluded that my mtDNA haplotype was largely Mediteranean and had little in common with known American Indian haplotypes. Hence, I believe that the mtDNA results have disproved the theory that my ggg-gandmother was half Indian. This conclusion is dependent upon my assumption that my ggg-grandmother's Indian parent was her mother, which would mean that I would be carrying Indian mtDNA, if the half-Indian theory were true. If she had been the product of a mating between an Indian male and a European female, then she could be carrying European mtDNA and still be half-Indian. But I think that my assumption is valid since I believe that European male/Indian woman matings were rare in those times, and Indian male/European female matings were much rarer still. Joe Anderson _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/

Julian, Rebecca has sent you the FTDNA pricing offline, as we are not supposed to post prices on rootsweb. Since we don't use the mtdna in the Pace study, if that is what you are interested in, the Y DNA 37 or YDNA 67 look like great bargains. The YDNA 37 is only $20 more than the standard price for the YDNA 12 used to be. Just thought I would call your attention to that. RoyJohnson -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Julian Pace Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 2:43 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PACE] FTDNA Special extended Rebecca, I might be interested. What are the prices, and what are the options? Julian Pace ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rebecca Christensen" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 10:14 AM Subject: [PACE] FTDNA Special extended Due to the overwhelming response to Family Tree DNA's August special, they have extended the reduced prices on new DNA kits until the end of September. So there is still time to order a DNA kit at the lower price. Rebecca Christensen ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.17/1655 - Release Date: 9/5/2008 7:05 PM

I'm sure Rebecca will respond to this, but I have a chart that illustrates it on the Pace site. Female (mtdna) testing can't be done for surnames, as females change surnames every generation. If your mother was Smith and her mother was Jones and her mother was Adams, etc., it would follow that line rather than a single surname line and jump to a different surname each generation. Mtdna testing is more to establish ancient ancestral origins on your mother's side. I don't know a lot about it as it is not used in the Pace study. You could google it and come up with a lot of info. The official name is mitochondrial dna. It is used in tracking migration and things like that. One interesting use for historical purposes was on a small island in the North Sea. The YDNA (male) of all the inhabitants was Nordic, but the mtdna was all celtic. Conclusion: The island was probably originally celtic. A bunch of Vikings probably invaded, killed all the men in the small population, settled there, and interbred with the celtic women. For the diagram, go to http://www.pacesociety.org/DNA/DNAillustration.htm There will be an interesting exception: Several generations back, there was no male Schnake heir to the farm, so Toenies Heinrich Brink married the sole remaining Schnake female, Annemarie Schnake, moved to the farm, and changed his name to Schnake--actually he was known as Toenies Heinrich Brink or Schnake, and all the kids were named Schnake, their mother's surname. So from this point on back the DNA would go up the Brink line, and several Schnakes have attended the Brink family reunion and vice versa. This practice makes DNA tracing in parts of Germany nearly impossible. In this case, Annmarie died and Toenies married again to a Strumpelmeyer. He kept the Schnake name. So the offspring of this marriage went by Schnake even though neither of their parents were born Schnake. Hope this is more enlightening than confusing. Roy -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 3:15 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PACE] FTDNA Special extended Hi Rebecca, I have entertained the idea of getting mine done for a long time now. Is this offer only available to men with Pace surname? Or is it available for females with different surnames? Or I guess a better question is do they do female testing for other surnames? Thanks for your help....what would we do without people like you and Roy [and others like you].....we all certainly continue to be beneficiaries of your hard work/expert knowledge/expert abilities/generous sharing]. ~Kathlynn~ In a message dated 9/6/2008 10:15:01 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Due to the overwhelming response to Family Tree DNA's August special, they have extended the reduced prices on new DNA kits until the end of September. So there is still time to order a DNA kit at the lower price. Rebecca Christensen ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.17/1655 - Release Date: 9/5/2008 7:05 PM

Hi Rebecca, I have entertained the idea of getting mine done for a long time now. Is this offer only available to men with Pace surname? Or is it available for females with different surnames? Or I guess a better question is do they do female testing for other surnames? Thanks for your help....what would we do without people like you and Roy [and others like you].....we all certainly continue to be beneficiaries of your hard work/expert knowledge/expert abilities/generous sharing]. ~Kathlynn~ In a message dated 9/6/2008 10:15:01 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Due to the overwhelming response to Family Tree DNA's August special, they have extended the reduced prices on new DNA kits until the end of September. So there is still time to order a DNA kit at the lower price. Rebecca Christensen ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)