The will of John Abernathy (written Feb 17 1812, Brunswick WB 8, p79) mentions son Buckner Abernathy and son Smith Abernathy. Smith Abernathy turns up in Wake Co NC (Nov 8, 1807 Wake County Deed Book V:23) buying land adj "Buckner Pace's line". John Abernathy was married to Lucy Harwell, who had a brother named Buckner Harwell. That may be where Buckner Abernathy got his name. John Abernathy's will also mentions a daughter Ann Abernathy, and a son Samuel Abernathy whose will (1793 Lincoln Co NC) mentions no fewer than three daughters with surname Abernathy, so it sure looks like these Harwells and Abernathys were closely connected. There was also a Buckner Stith in Brunswick: he married (7 Oct 1751, Amelia Co) Susanna Munford (who was related in some way I haven't traced to the Robert Munford who was one of the Indian traders and sometimes signed Pace or Lowe deeds). He patented land in Brunswick Co in 1760, was a justice in Brunswick Co, and left a will (1789) mentioning, among others, son Buckner, son Richard, and daughter Anne Eaton. Richard Stith witnessed John Abernathy's will. (This information comes from Pritchett, SVG, p. 2738) Whether a daughter from the Abernathys, the Harwells, or the Stiths might have married a Pace and named a son Buckner, I don't know. John Abernathy may have been a son of Robert Abernathy who married Mary Harwell, daughter of Samuel Harwell. Robert Abernathy, if it is the right one, was a son of Robert Abernathy and Christine Tighlman. Christine Tighlman was a daughter of Roger Tilghman and Susannah Parham. Susannah Parham was a daughter of Lewis Parham, Lewis Parham was a son of -- yep -- Lewis Green. Reportedly. James

After seeing the name of one of Lawrence House linked with Melton and (maybe) Pace in two records, I had a look to see what other Pace-linked surnames I could find mentioned in conjunction with Richard Pace's sons-in-law in Brunswick Co. The following records seem to me to suggest a possible link between the John Pace who married Ann Russell (and named a son Twitty Pace) and Richard Pace's son-in-law Charles Stewart: James Stewart's will, proved 24 Aug 1767, Brunswick Co. Among other legacies, 25 shillings to the children of his brother, Charles Stewart, dec'd. (Charles Stewart married Ann Pace, daughter of Richard and Rebecca Pace, mentioned in Richard Pace's will.) The inventory of James Stewart's personal estate was taken by Thomas Twitty and Richard Johnson, and presented 25 Feb 1768 before William Clack, justice. William Clack was married to Elizabeth Twitty Oct 16 1757 Brunswick Co, according to report; Thomas Twitty jr signed the bond. Thomas Twitty stood bond 7 Dec 1750, according to report, when John Russell m. Sarah Edmundson in Brunswick. Wit. was William Clack. John Russell stood bond 26 Nov 1769, according to report, when John Pace m. Ann Russell. So I thought that was interesting. Next question: if it was a John Pace who witnessed the Wilburn-Oliver indenture, might he have been the John Pace who married Ann Russell? I'm not very familiar with these records -- would be grateful for correction of any errors in the above. James

"John Pas", the witness to this deed, could just be a typo -- I've only seen transcripts. The location, and the mention of Lawrence House and William Melton, makes me think it might be "John Pace". Lawrence House married Sarah Pace, daughter of Richard Pace (daughter Sarah House mentioned in his 1738 will). Barnaby Melton married Mary Pace, daughter of John Pace (daughter Mary Melton named in his will, pr. 1727). "Indenture made 5 October 1748, between John Wilburn Senr. of Surry County and James Oliver of Brunswick County, £40, 290a, 100a of said Land being formerly granted to William Melton by Patent dated 1724, Beginning at a Spanish Oak Thence North Twenty five Degrees East one hundred poles to three Trees Chopt inwards Thence North Sixty five degrees West one hundred &; Sixty poles to a Hiccory then South Twenty five Degrees west one hundred pole to a light wood post and south Sixty five degrees East one hundred &; Sixty pole to the Beginning; other 190a of said Land being granted to John Wilburn party to these presents by patent dated 1730, Beginning at a Hiccory a Corner of WIlliam Meltons Land Thence by Meltons line south sixty five Degrees East one hundred &; sixty pole to Three Trees Choped inward &; South sixty five Degrees west Sixty nine pole to a black oak then North Sixty five Degreees East ninety two pole to a hiccory then North forty seven Degrees East twenty four pole to a pine by a branch then North thirty five Degrees west one hundred &; thirty two pole to a Red Oak then North Ten Degrees west forty five pole to a popler over the Run of a branch a Corner of Lawrence Hous's Land then by Houses Line North twenty five Degrees East fifty pole to a white Oak then North west by North thirty five pole to a pine then West by North seventy two pole to a Red Oak then south sixty Degrees west Sixty four pole to three Trees Chop'd inwards in a line of Willam Houses Land then by Houses lines South East forty two pole to a Red Oak &; South South West one hundred Eight poles to a Red Oak then South thirty Degrees East four poles to the Beginning. Signed John Wilburn (bhm). Witnesses: Thomas Oliver, John Wilburn, Junr (bhm), John Pas. Court October 6, 1748, Indenture &; Memorandum acknowledged by John Wilburn and Anne the wife of the said Wilburn personally appeared and relinquished her Right of Dower. Deed Book 3, Page 485." I don't know who William Melton was, but there is a of 1734 which mentions Lawrence House and William Melton: "BRUNSWICK COUNTY ROAD ORDERS 1732-1746 5 December 1734 O. S., Page 73 Lawrence House is appointed Overseer of the old Road from Allens Mill to the Maherrin Road and that Thomas Laurence, John Dunn, William Melton, Francis Renn, Robert Page, and his Tyths assist in Clearing the Same --" James

I may have the wrong information here. The date of birth I have got for James Pace (son of William Pace and Ruth Lambert) is Jan 23 1778. According to Pritchett (Southside Virginia Genealogies), the William Lambert who had land in Wake Co was born in Richmond Co, 18 Nov 1743 (Pritchett cites North Farnham Parish Register). If that's correct, William Lambert would be 35 when James Pace was born. Kind of young to be a grandfather. And from what I've read, James Pace is believed to have had older siblings, the oldest born around 1771. In 1771, according to Pritchett, William Lambert was 28. Even if Lambert started fathering children long before the law allowed, it seems unlikely he would become a grandfather by such a young age. James James

2 Nov 1705, Lewis Green patented "97 acres beginning on the south side Jones Hole, adjoining William Jones Senr, Thomas Wynn &c. " 18 June 1712, William Bobbett (father of John Bobbett who was John Green's brother-in-law) had a survey of 90acres on the South side of Jones Hole Swamp. (PG Co VA Surveys 1716-1724, page 2) 22 Jan. 1717, Shanes Raynes, 230 acres of new land, Pr. Geo. Co., on N. side of Jones Hole Sw; above Thomas Raynes' house; adj. Bobbett's land; & Raynes,' alias Pace's, line. Wrong side of the swamp. Perhaps Bobbett had land on the north side as well, or perhaps it was a different Bobbett. I don't know what "alias Pace's" means. Raynes who's also called Pace? Or Pace's line that's now Raynes' line? Or Raynes' line that's now Pace's line? At the least, it shows that somebody with the name of Pace was in this area some time or other. Precision, that's what we like. I am speculating (because these families seem to have been near one another again in the Jones Hole area) that perhaps John Green was indeed a son of Lewis Green. William Bobbett Jr m. Mary Green Nov 8 1725 (I don't know if this is proved), and they named a son Lewis. So perhaps Lewis Bobbett was named after his mother's father. Unfortunately, it could also be that the mother's surname has just been surmised on the basis of the son's given name. James Blair --- On Thu, 1/22/09, James Blair <[email protected]> wrote: > From: James Blair <[email protected]> > Subject: [PACE] Richard Pace's two Green sons-in-law > To: [email protected] > Date: Thursday, January 22, 2009, 4:19 PM > --- On Thu, 1/22/09, James Blair > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > William Lowe, John Pace, Richard Pace, John Leonard, > Richard Moore, and Phillip Jones, all in NC on the Morratock > by 1718-1720. > > > > Also on the Morratock by 1720: John Green... > > "1720 July 28 Richard PACE 500 Acres above Occaneechee > Chowan County (3) patent #2988 patent bk 8 pg 196 NS of > Morattock River joining river side, Colo. POLLOCK, NS of > Your-ha Swamp, John GREEN (16) patent 1 March 1720" > > ...and John Bobbitt: > > "Mar. 1, 1719 - we do give and grant to John Bobbitt a > tract of land containing 600 acres in Chowan precinct lying > on the North side of Murattock river...west side of the > Ocontchy swamp .... Chowan Precinct Book 81176 File 762. > North Carolina records." > > John Green and John Bobbitt were brothers-in-law. : > > "Oct. 21, 1718 - John Green of Chowan Precinct (North > Carolina) to John Bobbitt of the same, planter, on October > 21, 1718, for the love and affection I bear my > brother-in-law 100 acres on the north side of Morattock (now > Roanoke) river on the Camion meadows, joining the Shokeko > meadow and the said Green. Witnesses: Robert Hicks, John > Nairne." > > (Reportedly, John and William Bobbitt were brothers (sons > of William Bobbitt) who married Green sisters. I > haven't seen proof of that.) > > John Bobbitt's will (Bertie Co Nov 1736) mentioned his > son Thomas Bobbitt; Robert Green qualified as an executor. > > Robert Green died in 1750, and left land to his COUSIN, > Thomas Bobbitt. > > My guess is that a son of John Green may have married Amy > Pace, and another may have married her sister Frances. > > The question is, where did John Green come from? The > Bobbitt connection suggests that he probably came from > Charles City Co., but I don't know where. > > It's not hard to see where the Bobbitts came from, > though: > > In 1673, William Bobbitt patented 96 acres, 3 rods and 24 > poles "on the South side of Appomattox River, adjoining > the land of Mr Whittington". > > Two years earlier, in 1671, Richard Moore (will proved PG > Co 1727) had patented 112 acres, 3 rods, and 18 poles > "S. side of Appomattock River...Adj Maj. John > Epes...adj Mr Whittington, the Spring Garden Patt." > This appears to be the land referred to in Richard > Moores' 1727 will: "tract I bought of William > Whittington called "Spring Garden", next to > William Grigg, Baleys Creek". > > William Grigg, neighbor to Richard Moore and William > Bobbitt, had a daughter Susannah who is said to have been > married to Lewis Green, who also had land on Bayleys Creek, > right next to the Poythresses. > > However, I have not seen evidence that Lewis Green was > related to John Green. It would tie things up nicely, but > may not be true. > > Still looking. > > James Blair > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

1880 census Grove, Johnson, Missouri J. Adam Pace age 45 Nancy A.Pace age 37 William W. Pace age 10 from ancestry.com- Tevis, Cox, Klein by [email protected] Child of J. Adam Pace and Nancy A. is William Walter Pace b. Jan. 1870 in Mo. He married Lois N. Tivis 17 Nov. 1895 in Johnson Co.Mo. dau. of Stephen Silas Tivis and Frances Elizabeth IGO ( what is that?) She was born 47 Dec. 1875 in Johnson Co. Mo. and died 7 June 1932 in Neveda, Mo Children or William Walter Pace and Lois N. Tivis are 1- Ninnie M. Pace b. Jan. 1897 in Mo 2- Roy N. Pace b. Jan 1900 in Mo. Many names in this ancestral chart seem to have a connection to Albemarle and Fluvanna Co .va Marcellus Farrar m. Julietta H. Baber, dau. of. James H. Baber and Sarah Jane Powell Here they are on the 1910 census for Scottsville, Albemarle co.Va Sarah Barber( Sarah Jane Powell?) Head b.abt. 1835 in Va Marcella Farrar-( son-in-law) b. abt. 1871 Va Julia H. Farrar dau. b.abt. 1874 va Joseph H.Farrar b. abt. 1898 Va Willie E. Farrar son b. abt 1902 Va Theadore Farrar son b. abt. 1906 Va Nearby is the family of:: Arthur A.Pace Gertie Carter Pace Aubrey Pace Albert Pace These paces are said to be descendents of William Moment Pace b. 1806 m. Dicey King and related to the family of John R.Pace b. 1809 and Jesse F. Pace b.abt. 1814 thru James H.Pace m. Winifred C. Lyon Children of James and Winifred Lyons are: William James Gillespie Pace b. abt. 1851 m. Mary Elizabeth King Mary Virginia Pace b. 1852 Eliza Cornelia Pace b. 1855- I believe she is later living in Balto. Md Any descendents of J. Adam Pace of N.C out there? * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Please note: My new email address is [email protected] Please remove [email protected] from your address books and files so that we can stay in touch!

No surprises here. Group 3a, only one mutation, in marker 52, otherwise perfect match with the modal. Roy Johnson

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Please note: My new email address is [email protected] Please remove [email protected] from your address books and files so that we can stay in touch! ----- Original Message ----- From: Lois Long Carey To: [email protected] Rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 1:23 PM Subject: Pace-Lyons connection in Virginia- trying to help a descendent I was recently contacted by someone who has a relative in Tulsa, Ok and is connected to a James H.Pace and Winifred Lyon It seems they have been reading a lot of my posts and feel we may be related. They do not belong to the Pace Society or list, but have sent me a lot of information which is not documented in their family. 1- they believe that my grgrandfather, John R.Pace b. 1809, William Moment Pace b. 1806 and Jesse F Pace were brothers. and all sons of William Pace and Mary Thomas. This has always seemed to be a possiblity to me, as my grandfather John W.Pace brought suit over some land and many of the William Moment Pace family were named in it. Does anyone know if William Pace( husband of Mary Thomas) had a will? Could the land have been his? Quoting from the one who contacted me. My ggg- grandfather, James H.Pace married Winifred Lyon and we are looking for where Winifred Lyon is buried All of my mother's cousins say they have always heard that she is buried in Fluvanna and think that is where he is too. I would like to forward her messages to Gordon or Roy and see if maybe it will help with some questions which have been lingering for many a year.She has given me permission to do that.It is too much to send to the list. Would Gordon and Roy send me their current addresses, if they are interested. If anyone on the list has a connection , please respond. Some time ago I posted a list of people buried in an overgrown cemetery in Fluvanna, known as the Binns-King Cemetery. I have lost my copy . Would anyone have saved that.? I believe some of her people may be buried there James H. Pace was a son of William Moment Pace b. 1806 and Dicey King * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Please note: My new email address is [email protected] Please remove [email protected] from your address books and files so that we can stay in touch!

--- On Thu, 1/22/09, James Blair <[email protected]> wrote: > > William Lowe, John Pace, Richard Pace, John Leonard, Richard Moore, and Phillip Jones, all in NC on the Morratock by 1718-1720. > Also on the Morratock by 1720: John Green... "1720 July 28 Richard PACE 500 Acres above Occaneechee Chowan County (3) patent #2988 patent bk 8 pg 196 NS of Morattock River joining river side, Colo. POLLOCK, NS of Your-ha Swamp, John GREEN (16) patent 1 March 1720" ...and John Bobbitt: "Mar. 1, 1719 - we do give and grant to John Bobbitt a tract of land containing 600 acres in Chowan precinct lying on the North side of Murattock river...west side of the Ocontchy swamp .... Chowan Precinct Book 81176 File 762. North Carolina records." John Green and John Bobbitt were brothers-in-law. : "Oct. 21, 1718 - John Green of Chowan Precinct (North Carolina) to John Bobbitt of the same, planter, on October 21, 1718, for the love and affection I bear my brother-in-law 100 acres on the north side of Morattock (now Roanoke) river on the Camion meadows, joining the Shokeko meadow and the said Green. Witnesses: Robert Hicks, John Nairne." (Reportedly, John and William Bobbitt were brothers (sons of William Bobbitt) who married Green sisters. I haven't seen proof of that.) John Bobbitt's will (Bertie Co Nov 1736) mentioned his son Thomas Bobbitt; Robert Green qualified as an executor. Robert Green died in 1750, and left land to his COUSIN, Thomas Bobbitt. My guess is that a son of John Green may have married Amy Pace, and another may have married her sister Frances. The question is, where did John Green come from? The Bobbitt connection suggests that he probably came from Charles City Co., but I don't know where. It's not hard to see where the Bobbitts came from, though: In 1673, William Bobbitt patented 96 acres, 3 rods and 24 poles "on the South side of Appomattox River, adjoining the land of Mr Whittington". Two years earlier, in 1671, Richard Moore (will proved PG Co 1727) had patented 112 acres, 3 rods, and 18 poles "S. side of Appomattock River...Adj Maj. John Epes...adj Mr Whittington, the Spring Garden Patt." This appears to be the land referred to in Richard Moores' 1727 will: "tract I bought of William Whittington called "Spring Garden", next to William Grigg, Baleys Creek". William Grigg, neighbor to Richard Moore and William Bobbitt, had a daughter Susannah who is said to have been married to Lewis Green, who also had land on Bayleys Creek, right next to the Poythresses. However, I have not seen evidence that Lewis Green was related to John Green. It would tie things up nicely, but may not be true. Still looking. James Blair

--- On Wed, 1/21/09, James Blair <[email protected]> wrote: > A Chowan > deed of July 16 1716 mentions three different Richard Moores > in the one deed, which must be something of a record: > > "1716. Chowan Deed Book B #1, Pages 357 – 363, # > 901-905. > Thomas Avent of Chowan Precinct, weaver, transfers 200 > acres on Morattock, joining Nottaway Richard Moore and > Richard Moore upon ye River, to Richard Moore of the > Province of N.C. for 10 Pounds." Of these three Richard Moores, "Richard Moore of the Province of N.C." was the father of John Moore who married Tabitha Pace. 1739. Bertie Deed Book F, Page 105. John Moor to Richard Moor. February 13, 1739. Gift. 200 Acres "John Moor son of Richard Moor late Dec’d…and Richard Moor son of Richard Moor aforesaid…" land on Northside Morattoak River. Being land late Richard Moor bought of Thomas Avent by deed dated July 16, 1716."… and is Manor Plantation Richard Moor now lives on …" Wit: P(?) Smith, Robert Harris. February Court 1739. *. So John Moore's father Richard Moore was already "of N.C." in 1716. That makes it more difficult to guess where this family of Moores might have come from. John Moore named a son Mark. That might (or might not) indicate some connection with the family of Mark Moore of Henrico Co., who was on Swift Creek (Henrico) as early as 1708: 1708 Oct 01 Henrico Deeds 1706-1737, James Franklin, Jr. of Bristol Parish, Henrico Co., to Thomas Toddy and Mary Toddy of same, for £ 41, 360 acres in Appomattock on south side of Swift Creek, granted to said Frankling by patent 23 Oct. 1703. Wit: George Hunt, MARK (M) MORE, John LEONARD Also on the south side of Swift Creek: JOHN WILLSON, whose daughter married Thomas LOWE (granddaughter ELIZABETH LOWE m. JOHN PACE). Also, Francis Epes, who married ANN ISHAM. John Moore also named a son Isham. Although this is all only speculative, the associations of the Mark Moore family in Henrico Co lend some support. The Franklin -Toddy deed of 1708 was witnessed by MARK MORE and also by a JOHN LEONARD. A Bertie Co deed (27 Nov 1744) shows John Wade of Northampton Co selling to John Melton of Edgecombe Co 230 acres NS of Marratock "being land that JOHN LEONARD bought of PHILLIP JONES of Surrey Co Va 21 Oct 1718". A PHILLIP JONES was also in Henrico Co. Together with Francis Epes (he who married Ann Isham, Isham Epes, Francis Epes Jr, Elizabeth Kennon, Martha Stratton, George Archer, and John Hill, PHILLIP JONES patented 4000 acres on 24 April 1703. Also perhaps of interest: on 30 Sept 1718, William Reeves sold to WILLIAM LOWE (whose grandfather JOHN WILLSON had land on Swift Creek) 140 acres on the Morratock, and on the same day sold Elizabeth Molton 150 acres "adjoining PHILLIP JONES". Because of these records, and quite a few others I haven't included, it seems to me very possible that the Phillip Jones who sold 230 acres on the Morratock in 1718, and the John Leonard he sold it to, were the same Phillip Jones and John Leonard who appear in records together with Mark Moore in the Swift Creek area of Henrico Co. So we seem to have William Lowe, John Pace, Richard Pace, John Leonard, Richard Moore, and Phillip Jones, all in NC on the Morratock by 1718-1720. That seems to fit with my guess that maybe Richard Moore, the father of John Moore who married Tabitha Pace, also came from the Swift Creek area of Henrico Co. Fits with it, but doesn't provide any evidence. More digging required. One more thought: also in the same area of Henrico Co, though much earlier, was WILLIAM BAUGH, whom Richard Pace chose as his guardian in 1655. William Baugh's son James married Elizabeth Moore, daughter of the Richard Moore whose will was proved in 1727. James Blair

Roy: Interesting on Civil War, but did you know that Lincoln issued the Emancipation proclamation on Jan. 1, 1863 which reads," That on the first day of Jan. in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty three all persons held as slaves within any state or designated part of a state, the people whereof shall then be in rebellion against the United States, shall be then, *thenceforward, and forever free..."* Therefore slaves in West Virginia and many other places were not free because the area was not in rebellion with the Union. By the way, West Virginia's June 1863 admission as a state, formally part of Virginia, was a clear violation of the Constitution Article IV, Section 3, that reads in part "but no new States shall be formed or erected within the jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the junction of two or more States, or parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as the Congress". In reality the Proclamation freed slaves where they could not be reached, and keep them in bontage where they could be free, this was true also in Virginia counties of Berkley, Accomac, Northampton,Elizabeth City, York, Princess Ann, and Norfolk including the cities of Norfolk and Portsmouth. England and other European Countries had abolished slavery and Lincoln believed they would not aid a area that was not slave free. Jack Pace / Wmsburg, Va. On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Roy Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > Ever wonder why southerners refer to "The war between the states" while > northerners called it the Civil War? > > The term "state" originally meant a sovereign political unit like France or > England. Today we more often use "countries" or "nations". When the > colonies > became independent, they were not a nation or a unit; they were 13 separate > sovereign units--that is, states like France or England--uniting > voluntarily > into a union. It took awhile for them to decide whether the states were > independent "countries" or whether there was one nation. > > "War between the states" assumes that there were two legally constituted > states, or countries, the United States of America and the Confederate > States of America. The word "between" assumes only two entities; otherwise > it would be "the war among the states". > > "Civil war" basically means a war between two factions within one state, or > country. The Union and northern historians continued to refer to it as a > civil war and assumed that the Confederacy was illegal, therefore not a > "state" and that it was a war between factions in one "state". > > In our early history there were many who assumed that we were a true > "United > States" with each state being a sovereign political unit voluntarily into a > union and could voluntarily secede from that union. They said "The United > States are..." not "The United States is..." > > Regardless of what you call that war, I think we are all happy today that > we > are one nation, not fifty, and that it is "the United States is..." > > Roy Johnson > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf > Of Jack Pace > Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:38 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PACE] Surnames and how we get them.... > > To add to the possible DNA findings, i invite you to refer to *PSA Bulletin > DEC. 1993* #106. Bruce Howard inquire page 22. > " James L. Pace, 'called Jim Pace' His true name was Isaac L. Stroud. He > was > born 6/10/1844 in Cobb County Ga., the son of Sherwood Stroud and Elizabeth > Pace. He went near Ft. Smith, Ark. in the year 1860. When to the war > between > the states started he enlisted in the CSA Army, which he deserted several > months later and joined the Union Army. He had changed his name for fear of > being captured ( that is not the real reason but the one he stated) After > the war he made his way to Atchison Co. Missouri, where he met and married > Amanda Richey on Feb. 02, 1889. By 1923 to North, Kansas City Mo. where he > died in 1929. Mrs. Amanda Pace died in 1940. James and Amanda had two > children. Lula M. PACE b. 12/15/1890 and George H. PACE b. 7/01, 1891 both > in Atchison Co. Mo. Bruce was asking help in finding additional info on > this > family. But if George H. or male decendant were a participant in the > PSA--DNA program he would prob. be on the non-connection list. > j.pace/wmsburg,va > > On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Roy Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Re the thread below regarding Jack Pace's ancestry---- > > > > I have a similar situation but not quite the same. > > > > I trace Johnsons back to my gg grandfather and hit a blank wall. The > > information was passed down by word of mouth that Johnson is Swedish. > Could > > be; there are Swedish, English, and Scottish Johnsons--and I found in > > Sweden > > that Johnson was not necessarily derived from Johannson; there are > Johnsons > > by that spelling in Sweden. > > > > DNA gives a possible reason. Possible origin of male ancestor: West > > African. > > Deep clade test seems to confirm that hypothesis. > > > > My gg grandfather was a quintessential fiddle playing, hound-dog hunting > > Appalachian hillbilly from eastern Kentucky, parents said to have been > born > > in Virginia but Kentucky was once part of Virginia, so who knows? Not > many > > Swedes in that area! > > > > But my research shows that there were very early Swedish settlers in New > > Jersey and Delaware, and there were small free black settlements among > them > > as early as the late 1600s. > > > > So if a Swedish girl or woman bore a child by a black male, that child > > would > > probably be raised Swedish and given the mother's surname. > > > > That's just speculation but it shows how that sort of thing could have > > happened. One line of my family actually has a vague story about African > > ancestry, and no one in the family today finds it objectionable, but in > > earlier times it would be covered up as any drop of African blood brought > > all the ignomy of the dreaded n-word. > > > > Jack is still a Pace, doesn't matter how he got the name, and I'm still a > > (possibly Swedish) Johnson even if the male line is west African. > > > > My closest YDNA matches are in Senegal and Gambia, West Africa. No one > else > > on the large Johnson DNA study matches with me except my nephew, whom I > had > > tested for verification. > > > > Roy Johnson > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > > Behalf > > Of Jack Pace > > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 3:46 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PACE] Succinct lines with sources > > > > Joe: Been down that path without much succes, but that is the fun of this > > game, searching for and finding new data. Thanks. J.pace > > > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Janders 45 <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Jack, > > > > > > I expect that you have already searched for daughters who survived to > > > child-bearing age but then disappeared from the record? A lot of women > > died > > > in childbirth back in those days (just walk through some old cemeteries > > and > > > look at paired female/infant graves with the same dates of death), and > a > > > young widowed husband would not have been expected to raise an infant > on > > his > > > own, so the child was often raised by the maternal grandparents. Then > > the > > > father heads out to take up land in the newly opened Ohio country and > > > contact is lost with the child. Why wouldn't that child who was the > son > > of > > > a Pace and raised by Paces go by the surname Pace? This sort of thing > > > happened a lot back in those days and I would put it at the top of my > > likely > > > scenarios list. > > > > > > Joe Anderson > > > > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:33:31 -0500> From: [email protected]> > To: > > > [email protected]> Subject: Re: [PACE] Succinct lines with sources > > > > > > > Kaarin: I have pretty well documented my line back to John of > > Middlesex,> > > > what a surprise when my DNA (one of the first submitted, and retested) > > came> > > > back indicating no connections to any Pace line, Some where along the > > line> > > > something occured that was not recorded. There are several possible > > answers> > > > but in the meanwhile we answer to the name of PACE, JackPace, > > Williamsburg,> > > > Va. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Windows LiveT: Keep your life in sync. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_0120 > > 09 > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > JackPace,Williamsburg, Virginia > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > > in > > the subject and the body of the message > > > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1892 - Release Date: > 1/13/2009 > > 8:04 PM > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > JackPace,Williamsburg, Virginia > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1892 - Release Date: 1/13/2009 > 8:04 PM > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > -- JackPace,Williamsburg, Virginia

Yes, history is my field, and I am aware of this and have been since high school history, where it was clearly taught. The Emancipation Proclamation was a psychological stroke. Lincoln could not afford to antagonize the border states. Once he said "I hope God is on our side, but I have to have Kentucky." That didn't mean that Lincoln didn't want to abolish slavery. He supported a post war amendment freeing all slaves but thought it was too early. He was always aware of what public opinion would support, and at first presented it as a war to save the union. but that was starting to wear thin The proclamation would allow the war to be presented to strongly anti-slave states as a war to end slavery, but would still allow the border states to keep their slaves and prevent them from seceding. But Lincoln's writings indicate that he felt he had set the snowball in motion rolling down the hill and it would gain momentum and size and lead to the eventual freeing of all the slaves. There were other measures taken also to keep states from seceding. Maryland stayed union because it was contrived to arrest or detain all the pro-southern supporters on the way to the capital to vote on secession. Missouri stayed union because the federals occupied the capital; my home town of Neosho was the confederate capital of Missouri, where governor Claiborne Jackson and a rump legislature voted to secede and Missouri was accepted by the confederacy as the 13th confederate state. But there was no quorum and the union controlled legislature in the state capital did not secede. As soon as the new areas came under union control, slaves there were freed. Lincoln in his earlier life was a supporter of the rule of law, and supported enforcement of the fugitive slave law even though he didn't like it. But he ws obsesses with saving the union and gave that even higher priority and bent (or broke) the law several times to achieve that goal. I have forgotten what the rationalization was for West Virginia but I think it had something to do with Virginia having forfeited its rights by being in a state of rebellion against the Constitution and the Union. Roy -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jack Pace Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 3:58 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PACE] Surnames and how we get them.... Roy: Interesting on Civil War, but did you know that Lincoln issued the Emancipation proclamation on Jan. 1, 1863 which reads," That on the first day of Jan. in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty three all persons held as slaves within any state or designated part of a state, the people whereof shall then be in rebellion against the United States, shall be then, *thenceforward, and forever free..."* Therefore slaves in West Virginia and many other places were not free because the area was not in rebellion with the Union. By the way, West Virginia's June 1863 admission as a state, formally part of Virginia, was a clear violation of the Constitution Article IV, Section 3, that reads in part "but no new States shall be formed or erected within the jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the junction of two or more States, or parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as the Congress". In reality the Proclamation freed slaves where they could not be reached, and keep them in bontage where they could be free, this was true also in Virginia counties of Berkley, Accomac, Northampton,Elizabeth City, York, Princess Ann, and Norfolk including the cities of Norfolk and Portsmouth. England and other European Countries had abolished slavery and Lincoln believed they would not aid a area that was not slave free. Jack Pace / Wmsburg, Va. On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Roy Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > Ever wonder why southerners refer to "The war between the states" while > northerners called it the Civil War? > > The term "state" originally meant a sovereign political unit like France or > England. Today we more often use "countries" or "nations". When the > colonies > became independent, they were not a nation or a unit; they were 13 separate > sovereign units--that is, states like France or England--uniting > voluntarily > into a union. It took awhile for them to decide whether the states were > independent "countries" or whether there was one nation. > > "War between the states" assumes that there were two legally constituted > states, or countries, the United States of America and the Confederate > States of America. The word "between" assumes only two entities; otherwise > it would be "the war among the states". > > "Civil war" basically means a war between two factions within one state, or > country. The Union and northern historians continued to refer to it as a > civil war and assumed that the Confederacy was illegal, therefore not a > "state" and that it was a war between factions in one "state". > > In our early history there were many who assumed that we were a true > "United > States" with each state being a sovereign political unit voluntarily into a > union and could voluntarily secede from that union. They said "The United > States are..." not "The United States is..." > > Regardless of what you call that war, I think we are all happy today that > we > are one nation, not fifty, and that it is "the United States is..." > > Roy Johnson > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf > Of Jack Pace > Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:38 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PACE] Surnames and how we get them.... > > To add to the possible DNA findings, i invite you to refer to *PSA Bulletin > DEC. 1993* #106. Bruce Howard inquire page 22. > " James L. Pace, 'called Jim Pace' His true name was Isaac L. Stroud. He > was > born 6/10/1844 in Cobb County Ga., the son of Sherwood Stroud and Elizabeth > Pace. He went near Ft. Smith, Ark. in the year 1860. When to the war > between > the states started he enlisted in the CSA Army, which he deserted several > months later and joined the Union Army. He had changed his name for fear of > being captured ( that is not the real reason but the one he stated) After > the war he made his way to Atchison Co. Missouri, where he met and married > Amanda Richey on Feb. 02, 1889. By 1923 to North, Kansas City Mo. where he > died in 1929. Mrs. Amanda Pace died in 1940. James and Amanda had two > children. Lula M. PACE b. 12/15/1890 and George H. PACE b. 7/01, 1891 both > in Atchison Co. Mo. Bruce was asking help in finding additional info on > this > family. But if George H. or male decendant were a participant in the > PSA--DNA program he would prob. be on the non-connection list. > j.pace/wmsburg,va > > On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Roy Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Re the thread below regarding Jack Pace's ancestry---- > > > > I have a similar situation but not quite the same. > > > > I trace Johnsons back to my gg grandfather and hit a blank wall. The > > information was passed down by word of mouth that Johnson is Swedish. > Could > > be; there are Swedish, English, and Scottish Johnsons--and I found in > > Sweden > > that Johnson was not necessarily derived from Johannson; there are > Johnsons > > by that spelling in Sweden. > > > > DNA gives a possible reason. Possible origin of male ancestor: West > > African. > > Deep clade test seems to confirm that hypothesis. > > > > My gg grandfather was a quintessential fiddle playing, hound-dog hunting > > Appalachian hillbilly from eastern Kentucky, parents said to have been > born > > in Virginia but Kentucky was once part of Virginia, so who knows? Not > many > > Swedes in that area! > > > > But my research shows that there were very early Swedish settlers in New > > Jersey and Delaware, and there were small free black settlements among > them > > as early as the late 1600s. > > > > So if a Swedish girl or woman bore a child by a black male, that child > > would > > probably be raised Swedish and given the mother's surname. > > > > That's just speculation but it shows how that sort of thing could have > > happened. One line of my family actually has a vague story about African > > ancestry, and no one in the family today finds it objectionable, but in > > earlier times it would be covered up as any drop of African blood brought > > all the ignomy of the dreaded n-word. > > > > Jack is still a Pace, doesn't matter how he got the name, and I'm still a > > (possibly Swedish) Johnson even if the male line is west African. > > > > My closest YDNA matches are in Senegal and Gambia, West Africa. No one > else > > on the large Johnson DNA study matches with me except my nephew, whom I > had > > tested for verification. > > > > Roy Johnson > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > > Behalf > > Of Jack Pace > > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 3:46 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PACE] Succinct lines with sources > > > > Joe: Been down that path without much succes, but that is the fun of this > > game, searching for and finding new data. Thanks. J.pace > > > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Janders 45 <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Jack, > > > > > > I expect that you have already searched for daughters who survived to > > > child-bearing age but then disappeared from the record? A lot of women > > died > > > in childbirth back in those days (just walk through some old cemeteries > > and > > > look at paired female/infant graves with the same dates of death), and > a > > > young widowed husband would not have been expected to raise an infant > on > > his > > > own, so the child was often raised by the maternal grandparents. Then > > the > > > father heads out to take up land in the newly opened Ohio country and > > > contact is lost with the child. Why wouldn't that child who was the > son > > of > > > a Pace and raised by Paces go by the surname Pace? This sort of thing > > > happened a lot back in those days and I would put it at the top of my > > likely > > > scenarios list. > > > > > > Joe Anderson > > > > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:33:31 -0500> From: [email protected]> > To: > > > [email protected]> Subject: Re: [PACE] Succinct lines with sources > > > > > > > Kaarin: I have pretty well documented my line back to John of > > Middlesex,> > > > what a surprise when my DNA (one of the first submitted, and retested) > > came> > > > back indicating no connections to any Pace line, Some where along the > > line> > > > something occured that was not recorded. There are several possible > > answers> > > > but in the meanwhile we answer to the name of PACE, JackPace, > > Williamsburg,> > > > Va. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Windows LiveT: Keep your life in sync. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_0120 > > 09 > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > JackPace,Williamsburg, Virginia > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > > in > > the subject and the body of the message > > > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1892 - Release Date: > 1/13/2009 > > 8:04 PM > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > JackPace,Williamsburg, Virginia > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1892 - Release Date: 1/13/2009 > 8:04 PM > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > -- JackPace,Williamsburg, Virginia ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PA[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1892 - Release Date: 1/13/2009 8:04 PM

Ran across her on ancestral tree posted by Pat Burke- Bybee/ Burke family This is the only pace on her tree: Mary F. Pace b. 11 Sep 1854 Fluvanna co.Va m. Andrew J. Butler 1 Feb. 1882, son of Hezikiah Butler and Susannah Haley Harlow. Would like to know who her parents might be: * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Please note: My new email address is [email protected] Please remove [email protected] from your address books and files so that we can stay in touch! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Pace" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:57 AM Subject: [PACE] Rev. John Pace > Some time ago I was asked about Eliza. Pace, daughter of Rev. John Pace > and > Margaret Irvine. After Johns death Margaret lived with her daughter who > accompanied her on her application for pension for wife of Revolution > soldier. Elizabeth's husband was *Owen Smith who she married 16, June > 1836*. > John F. Young officiated. Source of this data is Hags,- Missouri Marriage > records 1821-1871. [ Rev. John Pace > (Benjamin-ca.1726--Benjamin--ca.1700,--John of Middlesex) was a circuit > preacher who was prob. born in King & Queen County Virginia. He filed for > pension in Ky and died in Missouri.] Jack Pace/Wmburg, Va. > > -- > JackPace,Williamsburg, Virginia > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Some time ago I was asked about Eliza. Pace, daughter of Rev. John Pace and Margaret Irvine. After Johns death Margaret lived with her daughter who accompanied her on her application for pension for wife of Revolution soldier. Elizabeth's husband was *Owen Smith who she married 16, June 1836*. John F. Young officiated. Source of this data is Hags,- Missouri Marriage records 1821-1871. [ Rev. John Pace (Benjamin-ca.1726--Benjamin--ca.1700,--John of Middlesex) was a circuit preacher who was prob. born in King & Queen County Virginia. He filed for pension in Ky and died in Missouri.] Jack Pace/Wmburg, Va. -- JackPace,Williamsburg, Virginia

I would like to learn where Richard Pace's sons-in-law came from (that's Richard who married Rebecca). I have been looking at John Moore. Tabitha Pace, daughter of Richard Pace whose will was proved Bertie Co 1738, married John Moore. His will, proved Northampton Co NC 1753, names his wife Tabitha and their children Sarah, Mark, John, William, Isham, Nathaniel, Richard. Execs wife Tabitha, Richard Moore, and Thomas Pace. It has sometimes been suggested that John Moore was a son of Richard Moore of Bristol Parish (will proved 1727 Prince George): "To son John, lower part of tract I now live on, the whole tract containing 200 acres, the road from my plantation to the main road at Spring Garden to be the upper bounds, and also a tract adjoining the lower part of land which I purchased of William Whittington, containing 50 acres. To son Benjamin, upper part of land which my dwelling house stand containing part of the 200 acres mentioned To son William, land out of the tract I bought of William Whittington called "Spring Garden", next to William Grigg, Baleys Creek. To grandson Thomas Moore, son of my son Thomas, deceased, a tract called "Spring Garden" bought of William Whitington, next to son John Moore and William Moore. To son John 1 shilling. To son William 1 shilling. To daughter Mary Lewis, a warming pan. To Daughter Elizabeth Baugh, 10 shillings. To Son Samuel, a cow, calf and my wearing clothes To Son Roger , 1 shilling. To Grandson George Rives, 1 shilling. Rest of estate to be divided between wife Elizabeth & son Benjamin Son Roger, to be executor.] Wit: John Fitzgerald, Thomas (x) Sturdivant, John (x) Lewis, Jr." I think this may be the wrong Richard Moore. There was more than one Richard Moore around at the time. A Chowan deed of July 16 1716 mentions three different Richard Moores in the one deed, which must be something of a record: "1716. Chowan Deed Book B #1, Pages 357 – 363, # 901-905. Thomas Avent of Chowan Precinct, weaver, transfers 200 acres on Morattock, joining Nottaway Richard Moore and Richard Moore upon ye River, to Richard Moore of the Province of N.C. for 10 Pounds." And since none of those Richards live in Bristol Parish, that makes four. I think John Moore who married Tabitha Pace was the son of Richard Moore whose will was proved in Bertie Co in Feb 1740: sons Jno and Richard Moore, wife Alice, wit: Philip Smith and Robt Harris. On 7 July 1726, a Richard Moore patented 540 acres "on both sides of Beaverpond Creek". Although I've only seen a brief abstract, this deed looks like it might be John Moore (m. Tabitha) selling part of that land, just a few days after the will of Richard Moore in Bertie Co was proved: 3 Mar 1740: John Moore of Bertie Co to William Johnson l40 Ac - part of patent to Richard Moore 1726 and by his death to John, heir at Law. And the deed abstract below shows John and Tabitha Moore selling to William Walker in 1746, land which was "part of a Patent that was granted to Mr Richard Moore in 1728". Richard Moore of Bristol Parish was dead by 1728, so the land could not have been patented by him. "Indenture made 23 February 1746, between John Moore of North hampton County, North Carolina, and William Walker of Virginia, £22, 100a, Binding on Pea Hill Creek, Beginning at a hiccory on the County Line running thence up the sd. Creek to a white oak a corner tree on the side of the Creek thence along the Line of the Patent to a popler a Corner tree on the side of seader run thence along the Line of the Patent to the Country line thence along the Country Line to the first station it being part of a Patent that was granted to Mr. Richard Moore in 1728. signed John Moore, and Tabitha Moore. Witnesses: Wm. Allen, Edward Revis, Thomas Clanton (bhm). Court May 6, 1747, Indenture and Receipt were proved by oaths of Wm. Allen, Edward Revis &; Thomas Clanton. Deed Book 3, Page 320." The Richard Moore whose will was proved in Bertie Co in 1740 might possibly have been a son of Richard Moore of Bristol Parish. It would be handy if this were so and could be proved, but so far I have not found anything to substantiate it. I don't know who the William Walker was who bought the land from John and Tabitha Moore. He sold the land to Arthur Harris three years later, at which time he was still "of james City County". James Blair

Walter was a researcher and descendant of Young Pace of Johnston, Guilford, and Mecklenburg Co. NC, a son of Alsey Pace and Zilpha Hall Pace. Walter's mother was a Pace (Sarah Pauline Pace.) BURCHFIELD, Walter Raymond “Butch”, Jr., age 63 of Garfield, NJ died of cancer on January 19, 2009. Born in Spartanburg, SC where he lived for 36 years and Garfield the past 27 years. Employed by CompUSA, Paramus, he was a Senior Computer Instructor for 13 years and previously worked for The National Education Center, RETS Campus, Nutley for 15 years as a Computer and Electronics Instructor. He was an Amateur Ham Radio Operator with the call sign WA4UKU/2. He is survived by his wife of 27 years Maria Justin Burchfield (nee Spataro), a sister Susan Belcher and her husband Jimmy of Spartanburg, SC, and his nephew Army Sergeant Raymond Pettit and his wife Kimberlie currently stationed in Germany. He is predeceased by his parents Walter “Abner” and Sarah Pauline (nee Pace) Burchfield, and his brother Warren Burchfield. In lieu of flowers contributions can be made to the Reconstructionist Temple Beth Israel, 34 West Magnolia Avenue, Maywood, NJ 07607. Private Cremation. Arrangements by the Aloia Funeral Home, 180 Harrison Ave., Garfield (973-340-7077) Condolences visit aloiafuneral.com Betty Pace ____________________________________________________________ Click here to learn more about nursing jobs. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw2bVMzuv7W0qZXuSoSNeacGgftfku56eg3Of4T5ssEHY4IZq/

Ever wonder why southerners refer to "The war between the states" while northerners called it the Civil War? The term "state" originally meant a sovereign political unit like France or England. Today we more often use "countries" or "nations". When the colonies became independent, they were not a nation or a unit; they were 13 separate sovereign units--that is, states like France or England--uniting voluntarily into a union. It took awhile for them to decide whether the states were independent "countries" or whether there was one nation. "War between the states" assumes that there were two legally constituted states, or countries, the United States of America and the Confederate States of America. The word "between" assumes only two entities; otherwise it would be "the war among the states". "Civil war" basically means a war between two factions within one state, or country. The Union and northern historians continued to refer to it as a civil war and assumed that the Confederacy was illegal, therefore not a "state" and that it was a war between factions in one "state". In our early history there were many who assumed that we were a true "United States" with each state being a sovereign political unit voluntarily into a union and could voluntarily secede from that union. They said "The United States are..." not "The United States is..." Regardless of what you call that war, I think we are all happy today that we are one nation, not fifty, and that it is "the United States is..." Roy Johnson -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jack Pace Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:38 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PACE] Surnames and how we get them.... To add to the possible DNA findings, i invite you to refer to *PSA Bulletin DEC. 1993* #106. Bruce Howard inquire page 22. " James L. Pace, 'called Jim Pace' His true name was Isaac L. Stroud. He was born 6/10/1844 in Cobb County Ga., the son of Sherwood Stroud and Elizabeth Pace. He went near Ft. Smith, Ark. in the year 1860. When to the war between the states started he enlisted in the CSA Army, which he deserted several months later and joined the Union Army. He had changed his name for fear of being captured ( that is not the real reason but the one he stated) After the war he made his way to Atchison Co. Missouri, where he met and married Amanda Richey on Feb. 02, 1889. By 1923 to North, Kansas City Mo. where he died in 1929. Mrs. Amanda Pace died in 1940. James and Amanda had two children. Lula M. PACE b. 12/15/1890 and George H. PACE b. 7/01, 1891 both in Atchison Co. Mo. Bruce was asking help in finding additional info on this family. But if George H. or male decendant were a participant in the PSA--DNA program he would prob. be on the non-connection list. j.pace/wmsburg,va On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Roy Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > Re the thread below regarding Jack Pace's ancestry---- > > I have a similar situation but not quite the same. > > I trace Johnsons back to my gg grandfather and hit a blank wall. The > information was passed down by word of mouth that Johnson is Swedish. Could > be; there are Swedish, English, and Scottish Johnsons--and I found in > Sweden > that Johnson was not necessarily derived from Johannson; there are Johnsons > by that spelling in Sweden. > > DNA gives a possible reason. Possible origin of male ancestor: West > African. > Deep clade test seems to confirm that hypothesis. > > My gg grandfather was a quintessential fiddle playing, hound-dog hunting > Appalachian hillbilly from eastern Kentucky, parents said to have been born > in Virginia but Kentucky was once part of Virginia, so who knows? Not many > Swedes in that area! > > But my research shows that there were very early Swedish settlers in New > Jersey and Delaware, and there were small free black settlements among them > as early as the late 1600s. > > So if a Swedish girl or woman bore a child by a black male, that child > would > probably be raised Swedish and given the mother's surname. > > That's just speculation but it shows how that sort of thing could have > happened. One line of my family actually has a vague story about African > ancestry, and no one in the family today finds it objectionable, but in > earlier times it would be covered up as any drop of African blood brought > all the ignomy of the dreaded n-word. > > Jack is still a Pace, doesn't matter how he got the name, and I'm still a > (possibly Swedish) Johnson even if the male line is west African. > > My closest YDNA matches are in Senegal and Gambia, West Africa. No one else > on the large Johnson DNA study matches with me except my nephew, whom I had > tested for verification. > > Roy Johnson > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf > Of Jack Pace > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 3:46 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PACE] Succinct lines with sources > > Joe: Been down that path without much succes, but that is the fun of this > game, searching for and finding new data. Thanks. J.pace > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Janders 45 <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > Jack, > > > > I expect that you have already searched for daughters who survived to > > child-bearing age but then disappeared from the record? A lot of women > died > > in childbirth back in those days (just walk through some old cemeteries > and > > look at paired female/infant graves with the same dates of death), and a > > young widowed husband would not have been expected to raise an infant on > his > > own, so the child was often raised by the maternal grandparents. Then > the > > father heads out to take up land in the newly opened Ohio country and > > contact is lost with the child. Why wouldn't that child who was the son > of > > a Pace and raised by Paces go by the surname Pace? This sort of thing > > happened a lot back in those days and I would put it at the top of my > likely > > scenarios list. > > > > Joe Anderson > > > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:33:31 -0500> From: [email protected]> To: > > [email protected]> Subject: Re: [PACE] Succinct lines with sources > > > > > Kaarin: I have pretty well documented my line back to John of > Middlesex,> > > what a surprise when my DNA (one of the first submitted, and retested) > came> > > back indicating no connections to any Pace line, Some where along the > line> > > something occured that was not recorded. There are several possible > answers> > > but in the meanwhile we answer to the name of PACE, JackPace, > Williamsburg,> > > Va. > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Windows LiveT: Keep your life in sync. > > > > > > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_0120 > 09 > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > JackPace,Williamsburg, Virginia > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1892 - Release Date: 1/13/2009 > 8:04 PM > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > -- JackPace,Williamsburg, Virginia ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1892 - Release Date: 1/13/2009 8:04 PM

To add to the possible DNA findings, i invite you to refer to *PSA Bulletin DEC. 1993* #106. Bruce Howard inquire page 22. " James L. Pace, 'called Jim Pace' His true name was Isaac L. Stroud. He was born 6/10/1844 in Cobb County Ga., the son of Sherwood Stroud and Elizabeth Pace. He went near Ft. Smith, Ark. in the year 1860. When to the war between the states started he enlisted in the CSA Army, which he deserted several months later and joined the Union Army. He had changed his name for fear of being captured ( that is not the real reason but the one he stated) After the war he made his way to Atchison Co. Missouri, where he met and married Amanda Richey on Feb. 02, 1889. By 1923 to North, Kansas City Mo. where he died in 1929. Mrs. Amanda Pace died in 1940. James and Amanda had two children. Lula M. PACE b. 12/15/1890 and George H. PACE b. 7/01, 1891 both in Atchison Co. Mo. Bruce was asking help in finding additional info on this family. But if George H. or male decendant were a participant in the PSA--DNA program he would prob. be on the non-connection list. j.pace/wmsburg,va On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Roy Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > Re the thread below regarding Jack Pace's ancestry---- > > I have a similar situation but not quite the same. > > I trace Johnsons back to my gg grandfather and hit a blank wall. The > information was passed down by word of mouth that Johnson is Swedish. Could > be; there are Swedish, English, and Scottish Johnsons--and I found in > Sweden > that Johnson was not necessarily derived from Johannson; there are Johnsons > by that spelling in Sweden. > > DNA gives a possible reason. Possible origin of male ancestor: West > African. > Deep clade test seems to confirm that hypothesis. > > My gg grandfather was a quintessential fiddle playing, hound-dog hunting > Appalachian hillbilly from eastern Kentucky, parents said to have been born > in Virginia but Kentucky was once part of Virginia, so who knows? Not many > Swedes in that area! > > But my research shows that there were very early Swedish settlers in New > Jersey and Delaware, and there were small free black settlements among them > as early as the late 1600s. > > So if a Swedish girl or woman bore a child by a black male, that child > would > probably be raised Swedish and given the mother's surname. > > That's just speculation but it shows how that sort of thing could have > happened. One line of my family actually has a vague story about African > ancestry, and no one in the family today finds it objectionable, but in > earlier times it would be covered up as any drop of African blood brought > all the ignomy of the dreaded n-word. > > Jack is still a Pace, doesn't matter how he got the name, and I'm still a > (possibly Swedish) Johnson even if the male line is west African. > > My closest YDNA matches are in Senegal and Gambia, West Africa. No one else > on the large Johnson DNA study matches with me except my nephew, whom I had > tested for verification. > > Roy Johnson > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf > Of Jack Pace > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 3:46 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [PACE] Succinct lines with sources > > Joe: Been down that path without much succes, but that is the fun of this > game, searching for and finding new data. Thanks. J.pace > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Janders 45 <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > Jack, > > > > I expect that you have already searched for daughters who survived to > > child-bearing age but then disappeared from the record? A lot of women > died > > in childbirth back in those days (just walk through some old cemeteries > and > > look at paired female/infant graves with the same dates of death), and a > > young widowed husband would not have been expected to raise an infant on > his > > own, so the child was often raised by the maternal grandparents. Then > the > > father heads out to take up land in the newly opened Ohio country and > > contact is lost with the child. Why wouldn't that child who was the son > of > > a Pace and raised by Paces go by the surname Pace? This sort of thing > > happened a lot back in those days and I would put it at the top of my > likely > > scenarios list. > > > > Joe Anderson > > > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:33:31 -0500> From: [email protected]> To: > > [email protected]> Subject: Re: [PACE] Succinct lines with sources > > > > > Kaarin: I have pretty well documented my line back to John of > Middlesex,> > > what a surprise when my DNA (one of the first submitted, and retested) > came> > > back indicating no connections to any Pace line, Some where along the > line> > > something occured that was not recorded. There are several possible > answers> > > but in the meanwhile we answer to the name of PACE, JackPace, > Williamsburg,> > > Va. > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Windows LiveT: Keep your life in sync. > > > > > > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_0120 > 09 > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > JackPace,Williamsburg, Virginia > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1892 - Release Date: 1/13/2009 > 8:04 PM > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > -- JackPace,Williamsburg, Virginia

Lois, This is a Welsh research database--WILLPERF on www.rootsweb.com, world connect. Carnarvon Castle,England is actually in Wales. Betty Pace On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 08:16:52 -0500 "Lois Long Carey" <[email protected]> writes: > several years ago I received info. from a Basil Wayne Smith b .28 > Feb. > 1848, son of Noman Wilbur Smith and > Anna Nadine Gaines . He married (1) Anna Stina Elisabeth Halvarsson > abt. 9 > juni 1974 in Koping,Sweden. > She was born 1 Juni 1950. She was the dau. of Per Halvar Pettersson > and Ruth > Mariana Norman. > Norman Wilbur Smith b. 1924, d.2001 > Burial: Brown Church Cemetery, Puxico, Mo > Married Anna Nadine Gaines 1947 in Arkansas. > Children of Norman Smith and Anna Gaines are: > Basil Wayne Smith-1948 > Adam Frank Smith 1952 > Norman Eugene Smith 1959 > Erhardt Smith 1961 > William Smith 1969 > Basil contacted me becauses in his ancestry there is a Walker > Connection > >From Virginia; > John Morris b. 1762 m. Lucy Walker b.1766 > His information goes back to 1284 with a reference to Carnarvon > Castle,England > Some of the names included in his ancestry are: > Gaines,Dooley,Perrin,Burlesson, Wilfong,Morris, > Crowley,Elkins,Pinkney,Forst,Walker,Cheatham,Bailey,Nicholson,Symons, > Pritchard,Culpepper,Shattuck > Areas mentioned are: Arkansas, Puxico, Mo,Locust Grove,Ga,Virginia > possible connection to my family in Virginia was: John Morris,b. > 1762 and > Lucy Walker,b.1766 > Their son, John Morris b. 8 May 1795 in Virginia m. Mary Forst b. 1 > > March,1796 > Their son, John Morris b. 18 March, 1837 m. Nancy? > Anyone connect?? > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > > Please note: My new email address is [email protected] Please > remove > [email protected] from your address books and files so that we can > stay in > touch! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roy Johnson" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 6:15 PM > Subject: [PACE] Surnames and how we get them.... > > > > Re the thread below regarding Jack Pace's ancestry---- > > > I have a similar situation but not quite the same. > > > > I trace Johnsons back to my gg grandfather and hit a blank wall. > The > > information was passed down by word of mouth that Johnson is > Swedish. > > Could > > be; there are Swedish, English, and Scottish Johnsons--and I found > in > > Sweden > > that Johnson was not necessarily derived from Johannson; there are > > > Johnsons > > by that spelling in Sweden. > > > > DNA gives a possible reason. Possible origin of male ancestor: > West > > African. > > Deep clade test seems to confirm that hypothesis. > > > > My gg grandfather was a quintessential fiddle playing, hound-dog > hunting > > Appalachian hillbilly from eastern Kentucky, parents said to have > been > > born > > in Virginia but Kentucky was once part of Virginia, so who knows? > Not > > many > > Swedes in that area! > > > > But my research shows that there were very early Swedish settlers > in New > > Jersey and Delaware, and there were small free black settlements > among > > them > > as early as the late 1600s. > > > > So if a Swedish girl or woman bore a child by a black male, that > child > > would > > probably be raised Swedish and given the mother's surname. > > > > That's just speculation but it shows how that sort of thing could > have > > happened. One line of my family actually has a vague story about > African > > ancestry, and no one in the family today finds it objectionable, > but in > > earlier times it would be covered up as any drop of African blood > brought > > all the ignomy of the dreaded n-word. > > > > Jack is still a Pace, doesn't matter how he got the name, and I'm > still a > > (possibly Swedish) Johnson even if the male line is west African. > > > > My closest YDNA matches are in Senegal and Gambia, West Africa. No > one > > else > > on the large Johnson DNA study matches with me except my nephew, > whom I > > had > > tested for verification. > > > > Roy Johnson > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On > > Behalf > > Of Jack Pace > > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 3:46 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [PACE] Succinct lines with sources > > > > Joe: Been down that path without much succes, but that is the fun > of this > > game, searching for and finding new data. Thanks. J.pace > > > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Janders 45 > <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> > >> Jack, > >> > >> I expect that you have already searched for daughters who > survived to > >> child-bearing age but then disappeared from the record? A lot of > women > > died > >> in childbirth back in those days (just walk through some old > cemeteries > > and > >> look at paired female/infant graves with the same dates of > death), and a > >> young widowed husband would not have been expected to raise an > infant on > > his > >> own, so the child was often raised by the maternal grandparents. > Then > >> the > >> father heads out to take up land in the newly opened Ohio country > and > >> contact is lost with the child. Why wouldn't that child who was > the son > > of > >> a Pace and raised by Paces go by the surname Pace? This sort of > thing > >> happened a lot back in those days and I would put it at the top > of my > > likely > >> scenarios list. > >> > >> Joe Anderson > >> > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:33:31 -0500> From: > [email protected]> To: > >> [email protected]> Subject: Re: [PACE] Succinct lines with > sources > >> > >> > Kaarin: I have pretty well documented my line back to John of > > Middlesex,> > >> what a surprise when my DNA (one of the first submitted, and > retested) > > came> > >> back indicating no connections to any Pace line, Some where along > the > > line> > >> something occured that was not recorded. There are several > possible > > answers> > >> but in the meanwhile we answer to the name of PACE, JackPace, > > Williamsburg,> > >> Va. > >> > _________________________________________________________________ > >> Windows LiveT: Keep your life in sync. > >> > >> > > > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_0 120 > > 09 > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > >> in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > JackPace,Williamsburg, Virginia > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > > in > > the subject and the body of the message > > > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1892 - Release Date: > 1/13/2009 > > 8:04 PM > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ____________________________________________________________ Compete with the big boys. Click here to find products to benefit your business. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw2USkHKbykXq10kt3nP4PUo6NH5Cbs1jOUWyFZgOHtd0hj3C/

I've been having a look to see if I could find anything that would show that I needed to modify or retract what I said in the message quoted below. After a rather breakneck run through a lot of VA and NC records, many of which were new to me, I haven't found anything that makes me think differently. Obviously it's only my opinion. Perhaps future discoveries will prove me wrong, in which event I'll be happy to acknowledge it. Thanks to everyone (on list and off) who has shared information. James Blair --- On Fri, 12/12/08, James Blair <[email protected]> wrote: > From: James Blair <[email protected]> > Subject: [PACE] DNA results > To: [email protected] > Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 12:34 PM > It seems to me the DNA results now fit together extremely > well, and tell a perfectly coherent story about the > descendants of Richard and Isabella. Not proved, of course, > and due to the lost records it's impossible to be sure > exactly how the lines of descent work; but nevertheless it > makes sense. > > The 3a DNA is shared by (among others) the descendants of > Richard (m. Rebecca), the descendants of William (m. Ruth > presumably Lambert), the descendants of John (m. Ann > Russell), and now, it seems, also by the descendants of > Bignal Pace. > > The simplest explanation of these results is that all of > these descend from Richard and Mary, and therefore from > Richard and Isabella. > > In other words, the 3a line is the line of Richard and > Isabella. > > Looks to me like the Pace DNA study has done it again. > > James Blair > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message