In order to marry, you must have a baptismal certificate. It should give the church and place of baptism, which is usually that of the birth--or very close to the place of birth. A church should have a record of the baptismal certificate filed with the marriage license. You have to produce a current baptismal certificate from the church. In some of the church records, in the marriages the date of baptism is given under the date of birth, and if it is another church from the one of the marriage, the church and place is named. This would include the parish and church and country, if they are emigrants. Example: Jones, David Parents bap 11-10-12 St. James, South Fork Smithe, Mary Parents bap 10-3-15 Married at St. Benedict's Church, March 3, 1925. Wit: Priest Jones, Father godparents: Married: John ?-place of birth male Jane Smith 11-2-18 Mother, maiden name female 12-25-49 12-5-18 ?-place of birth usually maiden St. James, name priest Altoona Make sense? Catholic marriages are almost always in the church of the bride--where she attends now, not where she was baptized. If it is a Greek Catholic church, it is in the man's church where he resides now. The priest in both the baptismal churches is supposed to enter any church marriages---this is why you need a current baptismal certificate, not one of the original date. In Ledoux, in St. Benedicts, Carrolltown, look for the dates from 1854 to 1860, both baptisms and marriages. For some reason, the priests in that tilme period included the place of birth and baptism and marriage of every person included in the entry--child, parents, witnesses, god-parents. For example, if a Cambria County birth certificate says Colver [the free Miner's Hospital there paid for by the Mine and run by Dr. Martin], Spangler [The Miners Hospital of Spangler], Altoona [Mercy or Memorial--this is Blair County], Johnstown [Conemaugh/Memorial, Mercy, Lee and a few other small private hospitals], Winders [the Miner's Hospital--this is Somerset County.] I recently found out there was a small maternity hospital in Barnesboro run by a single doctor. By the time of WW II, about half the local babies were born in a hospital. I see it is the Fishers you are interested in. Are you sure they are not in Ledoux, perhaps St. Augustine or St. Michaels? I know that Mary Ann Yahner was born in this county--all the Yahners were, except some of John Yahner's children because he moved to somewhere near Pittsburgh for awhile. Someone was asking me about the Fishers, and I am sure the Yahners were connected. Maybe you are already connected with that person? Or you might get connected with a post? I know she was having problems with the Fishers. It made me wonder if the name was spelled very differently? In the past I have looked for certain names by going through the Census letter by letter and found some ancestors whose names were misspelled so badly they were not recognizable--you need to check the combination of first names with "possible" family names. Of course, if the initial letter, like the "F" in Fisher is changed, that doesn't work. I don't know another letter for "F," but "A" and "E" are possible switches. Airhart and Ehardt are sometimes the same family. "D" and "T, " "A" and "E" "E" and "I " Check for letters that are written alike, too, as handwriting can cause errors. In St. Boniface, Holtz/Holz and Stoltz/Stolz are often confused. I have 9 spellings or Ebig/Ibig. With so many churches closed now, you should probably write to the Diocese and ask where the records are now. Sometimes they go to the merged church. Example: St. Bernard's Hastings and St. Boniface are at Hastings. Sometimes the Diocese keeps them, especially historic records. You should send some money as churches have to pay for secretaries, too. It also makes it more likely you will get a reply. The amount depends on what you want, how many, etc. I would not ask for very many different certificates at the same time. Remember, a church is only required to send certificates that are needed to receive other sacraments. Genealogy is not required. Marilyn Kline Washington -----Original Message----- From: Patricia Hamill <[email protected]> To: Jack O'Connor <[email protected]> Cc: marilynkwash <[email protected]>; PA List <[email protected]> Sent: Wed, Dec 21, 2011 7:39 pm Subject: Re: [PACAMBRI] Do you know procedure of Catholic Records for new families Ok, I have three siblings who were born out of the country who married in Cambria Co., PA. Do you think that I may be able to find clues as to where they were baptized? 27 May 1889 Augustin C Fisher and Teresa A Ellwanger were married by Rev. T. W. Rosenthal at St. Thomas Church in Ashville. 7 May 1889 John D Fisher and Mary A Yahner were married by P Maxamillian Herr OSV in Carrolltown. This is OSB. Order of St Benedict. 30 Oct 1894 John Cawley and Mary Fisher married in Ashville by T W Rosensteel The other three siblings were born here in the US and I have two of their baptismal records from Philadelphia and Berks Counties, PA. Pattie On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:51 AM, Jack O'Connor wrote: In NYC, I have found a number of Irish marriage certificates (being an O'Connor this is of interest to me) issued by church's have the baptismal information of the participants located on the back of the marriage certificate. Certainly not done in all cases but it only takes one to make you a believer. The story as I've heard it is that the priests wanted verification of their being catholic and requested this information, I doubt the NYC priest actually verified the information but it was given and included on the marriage certificate. I verified it. The moral of the story is now when I request a marriage certificate, I ask them to include any other genealogical information their records may contain. I also include a check as well. When I wrote to the church's in Ireland I did not include a check but included a 10 pound Irish note. I don't think getting a check from an American bank would have been what they wanted. Happy Holidays to everyone and good hunting in 2012!! Jack > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > From: [email protected] > Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 03:37:43 -0500 > Subject: Re: [PACAMBRI] Do you know procedure of Catholic Records for new families > > > A parish is required to keep records of any sacraments conferred on a person: Baptism, Penance, Holy Communion, Conformation, Marriage, Sacrament of the Sick [formerly Extreme Unction] and Holy Orders [this one males only, conferred by a Bishop] Catholic Churches keep burial records, but burial is not a sacrament. > The most important sacrament is Baptism. Used to be that when a Catholic couple or individual [with or without Catholic spouse] had a child, said child got baptized by the priest within a week or month or so. Please Note New e-mail address: [email protected]