This is what I have. Michael's parents are Michael Chirdon and Susan Delozier. Matilda's parents are: James N. McGuire and Margaret Delaney. Hope this helps. Jack > From: tafailor@gmail.com > To: pacambri@rootsweb.com > Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 16:34:32 -0700 > Subject: Re: [PACAMBRI] OBIT - Lorraine Chirdon McMonigal 1923 to 1984 > > Who was the father of the Michael Chirdon that was married to > Matilda? Who were the parents of Matilda? > > I have 2 sets of Michael Chirdons and 2 sets of Matilda > McGuires.......... :) > > > > Thanks in advance..... > > > > Mandy Haid Failor > > ---------------------------------------------- > > From: PfeisterJP@aol.com > Subject: Re: [PACAMBRI] OBIT - Lorraine Chirdon McMonigal 1923 to 1984 > Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 23:24:11 EDT > > > I am not an expert on the Chirdon families, but my limited research says > yes. Raymond is the son of Michael and Matilda. > > > > > > > > In a message dated 9/11/2008 9:43:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > jtr@atlanticbb.net writes: > > Is Raymond E. and Hellen (Miller) Chirdon son of Michael Daniel and > Matilda > McGuire Chirdon? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jack O'Connor" > To: "PA List" > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 5:52 PM > Subject: [PACAMBRI] OBIT - Lorraine Chirdon McMonigal 1923 to 1984 > > > > > > Tuesday, January 24, 1984, Arizona Daily Star, page B4, Tucson, Pima, AZ > > McMONIGAL, Lorraine Mae, 60, of Tucson, died January 22, 1984. > Survived by > husband, Howard N. McMonigal, Sr., daughter, Toni Wolf, both of > Tucson, son, > Howard N. Buck McMonigal, Jr., of Holbrook, AZ; brother, Raymond > Chirdon, > of Pittsburgh, PA., sister, Evelyn Colby, of Phoenix, AZ.; and nine > grandchildren. Graveside services 2:00 p.m. Tuesday, at East Lawn > Cemetery, > with Rev. Lew Runion of St. Pauls United Methodist Church officiating. > Arrangements by EAST LAWN MORTUARY. In lieu of flowers, remembrances > may be > made to St. Pauls United Methodist Church.Her parents were: Raymond E > and > Hellen MILLER > _________________________________________________________________ > - - - - - - - - - - > > Search for more Cambria County information on our webpage: > http://www.camgenpa.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PACAMBRI-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/

Hello, all--my mother was recently telling me a story about the children of Oliver Hess (three boys) who died when a tractor trailer hit them on Cresson Mountain. I believe this would have been in the 1950s. I'm guessing that something that big would have been on the cover of the Tribune--could anyone give me an idea for how I might go about finding it? (Sorry if I'm being clueless here. I tried to google it and didn't come up with anything.) Thanks for the help! Joyce researching: Mellott, Hess, Walls, McDowell, Yacynych, Homan/Humen _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together—at home, work, or on the go. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/

hello patricia, i was looking for someone in my family and i came upon your email to don and beth.....i do not know you or them, but i had some information that you may want according to your conversation..... joseph and winifred(winnie) were my grandparents. their children are joseph, eugene (my father), and edward. they did not have anyother children together. if i can help you with any other info, let me know. jan (mcgreehan) youwakim

I had Robert Allan, Cambria County in Lloyd Cemetery has Robert Allen. Does anyone know which spelling is correct for Robert's middle name? I would imagine who ever read the cemetery would have written it the way they saw it. Susan Tribune Democrat November 12, 1979 BERLEUE - Robert A., 54, Box 481 A., Portage R.D. 1, died Nov. 11, 1979, at Memorial Hospital. Born May 21, 1925, in Johnstown, son of Floyd and Harriet (Ellis) Berleue. Preceded in death by parents. Survived by widow, former Delillius Bender, and sons, Robert A. Jr., Charleston, S.C. and Floyd B., at home; also one grandchild. Brother of Floyd M., Youngstown, Ohio. Friends received from 7 to 9 p.m. Monday and from 2 to 4 and 7 to 9 p.m. Tuesday at John W. Askew Funeral Home, Ebensburg, where service will be held at 11 a.m. Wednesday, the Rev. Jack Marsh. Interment, Lloyd Cemetery, Ebensburg.

Rebecca (Kinkead) Smeal's obituary incorrectly names her mother's maiden name a Short and her maiden name was actually Williams. ----- Original Message ----- From: slbearer To: pacambri@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 6:10 AM Subject: SMEAL - Rebecca M. (Kinkead) Tribune Democrat May 26, 1981 SMEAL - Rebecca M. (Kinkead), 65, 707 Maple St., Verona, formerly of Patton, died May 25, 1981, at Columbia Health Center, Wilkinsburg. Born May 21, 1916, in Patton, daughter of late Frank and Mary Jane (Short) Kinkead. Preceded in death by brother, Frank. Survived by husband, the Rev. Maurice M. Smeal, pastor of Trinity Lutheran Church, Verona, and son, Bruce Calvin Smeal, and wife; also two grandchildren. Sister of Ruth Varner, Johnstown; Frances K. Roach, Patton; and Louis R., California. Funeral service at 11 a.m. Thursday at Trinity Lutheran Church. Interment in Wheeling, W.VA. Arrangements by William J. O'Neill Funeral Home, Margaret Ann O'Neill, Assoc., Oakmont.

Tribune Democrat November 12, 1979 BERLEUE - Robert A., 54, Box 481 A., Portage R.D. 1, died Nov. 11, 1979, at Memorial Hospital. Born May 21, 1925, in Johnstown, son of Floyd and Harriet (Ellis) Berleue. Preceded in death by parents. Survived by widow, former Delillius Bender, and sons, Robert A. Jr., Charleston, S.C. and Floyd B., at home; also one grandchild. Brother of Floyd M., Youngstown, Ohio. Friends received from 7 to 9 p.m. Monday and from 2 to 4 and 7 to 9 p.m. Tuesday at John W. Askew Funeral Home, Ebensburg, where service will be held at 11 a.m. Wednesday, the Rev. Jack Marsh. Interment, Lloyd Cemetery, Ebensburg.

Who was the father of the Michael Chirdon that was married to Matilda? Who were the parents of Matilda? I have 2 sets of Michael Chirdons and 2 sets of Matilda McGuires.......... :) Thanks in advance..... Mandy Haid Failor ---------------------------------------------- From: PfeisterJP@aol.com Subject: Re: [PACAMBRI] OBIT - Lorraine Chirdon McMonigal 1923 to 1984 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 23:24:11 EDT I am not an expert on the Chirdon families, but my limited research says yes. Raymond is the son of Michael and Matilda. In a message dated 9/11/2008 9:43:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, jtr@atlanticbb.net writes: Is Raymond E. and Hellen (Miller) Chirdon son of Michael Daniel and Matilda McGuire Chirdon? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack O'Connor" <seanroconnor@hotmail.com> To: "PA List" <pacambri@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 5:52 PM Subject: [PACAMBRI] OBIT - Lorraine Chirdon McMonigal 1923 to 1984 Tuesday, January 24, 1984, Arizona Daily Star, page B4, Tucson, Pima, AZ McMONIGAL, Lorraine Mae, 60, of Tucson, died January 22, 1984. Survived by husband, Howard N. McMonigal, Sr., daughter, Toni Wolf, both of Tucson, son, Howard N. Buck McMonigal, Jr., of Holbrook, AZ; brother, Raymond Chirdon, of Pittsburgh, PA., sister, Evelyn Colby, of Phoenix, AZ.; and nine grandchildren. Graveside services 2:00 p.m. Tuesday, at East Lawn Cemetery, with Rev. Lew Runion of St. Pauls United Methodist Church officiating. Arrangements by EAST LAWN MORTUARY. In lieu of flowers, remembrances may be made to St. Pauls United Methodist Church.Her parents were: Raymond E and Hellen MILLER _________________________________________________________________

Hi Group,        I am certainly glad that I did my research this summer before the State Archives changed.  It appears that it is now only open to PA residents.  Anyone want to become our relative?  Edwina

Tribune Democrat May 26, 1981 SMEAL - Rebecca M. (Kinkead), 65, 707 Maple St., Verona, formerly of Patton, died May 25, 1981, at Columbia Health Center, Wilkinsburg. Born May 21, 1916, in Patton, daughter of late Frank and Mary Jane (Short) Kinkead. Preceded in death by brother, Frank. Survived by husband, the Rev. Maurice M. Smeal, pastor of Trinity Lutheran Church, Verona, and son, Bruce Calvin Smeal, and wife; also two grandchildren. Sister of Ruth Varner, Johnstown; Frances K. Roach, Patton; and Louis R., California. Funeral service at 11 a.m. Thursday at Trinity Lutheran Church. Interment in Wheeling, W.VA. Arrangements by William J. O'Neill Funeral Home, Margaret Ann O'Neill, Assoc., Oakmont.

---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: David D Evans obit-Elba (Evans ?) Pugh From: star2177@dtccom.net Date: Thu, September 25, 2008 9:40 pm To: PACAMBRI-L@rootsweb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cambria Freeman, Ebensburg, PA  Friday February 5, 1904 Volume XX XVIII, Number 6 DAVID D Evans David D Evans, aged 75 years, died at 11 o'clock Friday morning at his home in Cambria Township, about two miles south of this place. The cause of death was pneumonia, which had developed from a severe cold that he had contracted about a week before his death. He was a native of Wales and came to this country when he was two years old. He is survived by his wife and three children; Oscar Evans of Cambria township; John Evans, at home; and Mrs. Elba Pugh of Gomer, O. My g-grandfather was David Daniel Evans, married to Mary D Humphreys children; John Stephen Evans 9 Oct-1856-June 1937 Mary Jane Evans 31 July 1959-7 November 1860 Webster Evans 23 June 1869 -1 September 1869 Oscar Daniel Evans 6 October 1864-6 November 1941 The obit fits the family until Mrs. Elba Pugh of Gomer, O; which I assume is Ohio. although I have never heard of Gomer, Ohio The Pugh family lived next door (farm) to the Evans family in the 1860-70-80 Census in Cambria Township Can any Pugh or Evans researchers help?

Harry's parents were Peter Adams and Anna Marie Zerbee. Thursday, January 31, 1946, Akron Beacon Journal, page 24, Akron, Summit, OH ADAMS Harry P., age 75 years, passed away Thursday at the residence, 806 Clover av. Beloved husband of Georgia Ann; father of Henry P., Mrs. Anna Marie Rollin [Rollins], Joseph I., Edward A., all of Cuyahoga Falls; and Mrs. Mary Ellen Hill of Deerfield, O.; brother of Gus of Kent. Raymond of Massillon, and Mrs. Amelia Hern of St. Mary’s, O. Fourteen grandchildren, two great-grandchildren, several nieces and nephews also survive. Friends may call after noon Friday at the McGowan Funeral Home. Services to be announced later (McGowan’s) Friday, February 8, 1946, Cuyahoga Falls Reporter, Cuyahoga Falls, Summit, OH Harry P. Adams Services Monday Requiem mass was sung at 9 a.m. Monday in St. Joseph’s Catholic Church for Harry P. Adams, 75, who passed away last Thursday morning at his home, 806 Clover avenue, following a long illness. Burial was in Oakwood cemetery in charge of McGowan. Mr. Adams was a stationary fireman and had previously worked at the Twin Coach Co., in Kent, retiring two years ago. He leaves his wife, Mrs. Georgia Ann Adams, and the following children: Henry P., Mrs. Anna Marie Rollin [Rollins], Joseph I. and Edward A., all of Cuyahoga Falls, and Mrs. Mary Ellen Hill, of Deerfield; two brothers, Gus, of Kent, and Raymond, of Massillon; a sister, Mrs. Amelia Hern, of St. Mary’s, O; 14 grandchildren and 2 great-grandchildren, and several nieces and nephews. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Monday, March 25, 1946, Akron Beacon Journal, Akron, Summit, OH ADAMS Georgia Ann, age 74 years, passed away Saturday night at the residence, 806 Clover av. Widow of the late Harry P., mother of Henry P., Joseph I, Edward A. Adams and Mrs. Anna Marie Rollins, all of Cuyahoga Falls, and Mrs. Mary Ellen Hill of Deerfield O.; sister of Dan Frazier and Mrs. Bessie Myers of Cuyahoga Falls, and Bert Frazier of Kent. Eighteen grandchildren and two great-grandchildren also survive. Friends may call Monday evening and Tuesday at the McGowan Funeral Home. Services 10 a.m. Wednesday at St. Joseph’s Church. Interment Oakwood (McGowan’s) Friday, March 29, 1946, Cuyahoga Falls Reporter, Cuyahoga Falls, Summit, OH Lifelong Resident Called by Death Mrs. Georgia Ann Adams, 74, a lifelong resident of Summit and Portage counties, died Saturday at her home, 806 Clover avenue. She was a native of Metz, O., and had lived in the Falls for 30years. She was a member of St. Joseph’s Catholic church. She and her husband, the late Harry P. Adams, celebrated their golden wedding anniversary in October 1942. They were married in Kent. Mrs. Adams leaves three sons, Henry P., Joseph I. and Edward A., all of the Falls; two daughters, Mrs. Anna Marie Rollins, of the Falls, and Mary Ellen Hill, of Deerfield; two brothers, Dan Frazier, of the Falls, and Bert Frazier, of Kent; one sister, Mrs. Bessie Myers, of the Falls; 18 grandchildren and two great-grandchildren. Requiem mass was sung at 10 a.m. Wednesday at St. Joseph’s church. Burial was in Oakwood cemetery. _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn “10 hidden secrets” from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008

Patrick belonged to Peter and CHarity and Peter belonged to Capt Mike. ----- Original Message ----- From: ann monastra To: Brenda ; cambria list Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [PACAMBRI] Frances Josephine McGuire/Daniel Convery Who were Patrick McGuire's parents, grandparents? Ann ----- Original Message ---- From: Brenda <wallace1986@comcast.net> To: cambria list <PACAMBRI-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 8:31:52 AM Subject: [PACAMBRI] Frances Josephine McGuire/Daniel Convery I have nothing on Daniel, never tried to follow him up. Frances Josephine born Nov 13, 1851 and died Dec 22, 1885. Married Daniel Jul 4, 1877 according to Cambria Freeman 7/13/1877. Her estate was filed at Cambria County. Cambria Co., PA estate records file 3005. Children: Annie born 1877 and William born 1879. I have nothing more on them. Parents: Patrick (April 4, 1811-March 21, 1883) and Mary Ann Dougherty (April 4, 1817-June 10, 1872) McGuire. Frances Josephine's siblings: James Hiram [Sept 26, 1843], Margaret Alice [Feb 13, 1845], Matilda [Dec 3, 1846[, Amanda [April 2, 1849], Frances, Mary Jane [Sept 1, 1853], Catherine Victoria [April 17, 1855], Patrick [1858], William Joseph [Mar 19, 1860], Peter Daniel [Jul 28, 1862], Ann [Sep 23, 1865] - - - - - - - - - - Search for more Cambria County information on our webpage: http://www.camgenpa.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PACAMBRI-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Who were Patrick McGuire's parents, grandparents? Ann ----- Original Message ---- From: Brenda <wallace1986@comcast.net> To: cambria list <PACAMBRI-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 8:31:52 AM Subject: [PACAMBRI] Frances Josephine McGuire/Daniel Convery I have nothing on Daniel, never tried to follow him up. Frances Josephine born Nov 13, 1851 and died Dec 22, 1885. Married Daniel Jul 4, 1877 according to Cambria Freeman 7/13/1877.  Her estate was filed at Cambria County. Cambria Co., PA estate records file 3005. Children: Annie born 1877 and William born 1879.  I have nothing more on them. Parents: Patrick (April 4, 1811-March 21, 1883) and Mary Ann Dougherty (April 4, 1817-June 10, 1872) McGuire. Frances Josephine's siblings: James Hiram [Sept 26, 1843], Margaret Alice [Feb 13, 1845], Matilda [Dec 3, 1846[, Amanda [April 2, 1849], Frances, Mary Jane [Sept 1, 1853], Catherine Victoria [April 17, 1855], Patrick [1858], William Joseph [Mar 19, 1860], Peter Daniel [Jul 28, 1862], Ann [Sep 23, 1865] - - - - - - - - - - Search for more Cambria County information on our webpage: http://www.camgenpa.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PACAMBRI-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Good to hear from you. Thanks Jack > From: wallace1986@comcast.net> To: PACAMBRI-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 08:31:52 -0400> Subject: [PACAMBRI] Frances Josephine McGuire/Daniel Convery> > I have nothing on Daniel, never tried to follow him up.> > Frances Josephine born Nov 13, 1851 and died Dec 22, 1885. Married Daniel Jul 4, 1877 according to Cambria Freeman 7/13/1877. Her estate was filed at Cambria County. Cambria Co., PA estate records file 3005.> Children: Annie born 1877 and William born 1879. I have nothing more on them.> > Parents: Patrick (April 4, 1811-March 21, 1883) and Mary Ann Dougherty (April 4, 1817-June 10, 1872) McGuire.> > Frances Josephine's siblings: James Hiram [Sept 26, 1843], Margaret Alice [Feb 13, 1845], Matilda [Dec 3, 1846[, Amanda [April 2, 1849], Frances, Mary Jane [Sept 1, 1853], Catherine Victoria [April 17, 1855], Patrick [1858], William Joseph [Mar 19, 1860], Peter Daniel [Jul 28, 1862], Ann [Sep 23, 1865]> - - - - - - - - - -> > Search for more Cambria County information on our webpage:> http://www.camgenpa.com/> -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PACAMBRI-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn “10 hidden secrets” from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008

I have nothing on Daniel, never tried to follow him up. Frances Josephine born Nov 13, 1851 and died Dec 22, 1885. Married Daniel Jul 4, 1877 according to Cambria Freeman 7/13/1877. Her estate was filed at Cambria County. Cambria Co., PA estate records file 3005. Children: Annie born 1877 and William born 1879. I have nothing more on them. Parents: Patrick (April 4, 1811-March 21, 1883) and Mary Ann Dougherty (April 4, 1817-June 10, 1872) McGuire. Frances Josephine's siblings: James Hiram [Sept 26, 1843], Margaret Alice [Feb 13, 1845], Matilda [Dec 3, 1846[, Amanda [April 2, 1849], Frances, Mary Jane [Sept 1, 1853], Catherine Victoria [April 17, 1855], Patrick [1858], William Joseph [Mar 19, 1860], Peter Daniel [Jul 28, 1862], Ann [Sep 23, 1865]

What type of occupation was "the fulling business?" Thank you for posting your query. Found this very interesting and I learned something. _Click here: Fulling Mills_ (http://www.witheridge-historical-archive.com/fulling.htm) or use _http://www.witheridge-historical-archive.com/fulling.htm_ (http://www.witheridge-historical-archive.com/fulling.htm) Barb CA **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)

What type of occupation was "the fulling business?" Cambria Freeman, Ebensburg, PA, FRI 13 MAY 1881 Page 3, column 2 Mr. Alexander Yenner died at the residence of Mr. Geo. W. Jones in East Liberty, on Sunday last, and on Tuesday his remains were brought hither and laid to rest in Lloyd cemetery. The deceased was well known in this neighborhood, having for a long series of years been engaged in the fulling business in the eastern end of a town along with Mr. Thomas M. Jones, also deceased. We imagine his age to have been in the neighborhood of 75 years. On the same day the ashes of the wife of Mr. Timothy Davis, of Jackson township, were interred in a cemetery in that neighborhood. The bereaved husband is a brother of our townsmen, Messrs. Thos. and David Davis, and the wife of the first named was a sister of the one who had been called hence. Their maiden name was Burket. Search for more Cambria County information on our webpage: http://www.camgenpa.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PACAMBRI-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I need help with Gerts parents (Daniel Convery and Frances Josephine McGUIRE) , siblings. children. Thanks Jack Family Census History 1910 Gallitzin, Cambria, PA, T-624, #1323, ED 114, page 21b, 0 / 0 1920 Allegheny, Cambria, PA, T-625, #1545, ED 207, page 2a __________________________________________________________________________________ Monday, May 24, 1920, Daily Tribune, Johnstown, Cambria, PA Alexander Hall Alexander Hall, aged 40 years, of Gallitzin, died at Memorial Hospital at 2:25 o’clock this morning following an operation. He was admitted to the local institution on May 7. The deceased is survived by his widow. The body has been turned over to Undertaker Stephen J. Conway to prepare for burial and will be shipped to Gallitzin this afternoon. ++++++++++++++++++++++++ Tuesday, April 29, 1924, Daily Tribune, Johnstown, Cambria, PA Mrs. Gertrude [Convery] Hall LORETTO, April 29, - Mrs. Gertrude Hall, 41 years, widow of Alex Hall, died at 3 o’clock yesterday afternoon at the Summit County Hospital, where she had been a patient for the past three weeks. Death was due to heart trouble. The deceased is survived by three children, Lorraine, Guy and Marion, and one sister, Mrs. Annie O’Neil, of Erie. The body was brought from Somerset to the home of James Beiter, relative of the deceased. Funeral services will be held at 10 o’clock Thursday morning in St. Michel’s Catholic Church. Internment will be in the church cemetery. Erie papers are requested to please copy. _________________________________________________________________ Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/

I'll be out of town and without internet access until Tuesday. If you need anything, please contact Diann at: diann.olsen@verizon.net Thanks! Lynne

Johnstown Tribune April 11 1903 P. 1, col. 5 The first half of the obit is missing but the man's name is Mr. Broad: ...of lung trouble, which caused his death, and lately had been janitor of the South Fork schools. The deceased was born in England in June 1843 and came to America many years ago. His wife, Mrs. Margaret Broad died in South Fork four years ago yesterday. Mr. Broad is survived by the following children: Dr. J. G. Broad; Harriet, wife of Samuel H. Mears; Fannie, wife of Albert Clements; Miss Gertrude and Walter, all of South Fork. The funeral took place at 2 o'clock yesterday afternoon from the South Fork Methodist Church of which the deceased was a member. The Rev. McIllyar H. Lichliter, pastor of the church, conducted the osbsequies after which interment was made in the South Fork Cemetery. _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn “10 hidden secrets” from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008