If you are talking about a Catholic Church [can only speak for them], the entire cemetery was consecrated ground and only BAPTIZED individuals IN GOOD STANDING AS A CATHOLIC could be buried in the cemetery. An unbaptized infant would be buried in "Potter's Field," so called because the Jews bought a [real] potter's [clay workers] field with Judas' 30 pieces of silver and provided for burial of those who were not eligible for regular Jewish burial. The Catholic Church adopted that idea, and an unbaptized or still born baby or miscarriage would be buried in that "field.' Nurses at the local hospital or midwives would baptize new borns if they were ill. A midwife's baptism usually made her the child's godmother. I can't explain all the details, but a simple pouring on water type of baptism by a non-priest is OK, but the child should be rebaptized in the church " with full rites" of baptism. In St. Bernard's Church, Hastings, Potter's Field is marked and the burials are all around the top edge of the cemetery in unconsecrated ground. Adults who are not baptized, or who are husbands or wives of Catholics but were not themselves baptized, also are buried there. If you did something to annoy [some] priests or disobeyed church law [mainly being divorced and remarried] also go there. About 1963, after Vatican II, the latest Catholic Church Conclave, many things changed. Now the entire cemetery is not consecrated, just a grave as it is used--so an unbaptized husband or wife could be buried next to the spouse. Believe me, there was a lot of "getting around the rules" as no one wanted to have a child buried in Potter's Field. Sometimes the parents themselves would bury the "baby" in the family plot. Most of the babies in Potter's Field in Hastings have tombstones. Marilyn Kline Washington -----Original Message----- From: Gail Dickinson <[email protected]> To: pacambri <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, Sep 26, 2011 11:36 pm Subject: [PACAMBRI] early 1900 baby graves in South Fork I wonder if others have found and solved my problem trying to locate a child's rave. y aunt Margaret Bourdess (also spelled Bordes, Burdess) was born in 1912 in outh Fork. She died as a baby (quote from my grandmother: "a lot of babies ere taken up on the hill that year"). I can't find her grave, although there re other Bourdess, Burdess in South Fork Cemetery. The Anthony Bourdess that s there is a relative (my g-grandfather). George is my grandfather. y cousin recalls a conversation with an older person in her church, who told er that there was a baby plot in the cemetery, back by the woods, where they uried babies and small children without grave markers. I have researched the ass grave in Portage in 1918, but I wouldn't think she would have lived to be 6 f the family story is she died as a baby, plus I am not sure the family would ave taken her all the way to Portage to be buried. The story about South Fork emetery doesn't seem right, but I don't know what else could have happened. he South Fork Lutheran Church is no longer in existence, although I am sure the ecords must be somewhere. I don't know the year, so have no hope of searching he newspapers. She is not in the obit index at the cambria county library, not n any of the cemetery indexes. Anyone have a similar story? ail Dickinson esearching Bourdess, Thomas, Layton - - - - - - - - - Search for more Cambria County information on our webpage: ttp://www.camgenpa.com/ ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

Does anyone know the parents of John L. Fleming married to Mary (Molchan/Molchany) Fleming Podplesky and their children? James Thomas Rosenbaum 310 Melvin Street Johnstown, PA 15904-1219 814-266-6855

Does anyone know the parents and kids of Fritz Edelman and Mary Reingen? James Thomas Rosenbaum 310 Melvin Street Johnstown, PA 15904-1219 814-266-6855

Please Join the Genealogical Society of Pennsylvania and Ancestry.com for Pennsylvania Family History Day, Saturday, November 5, 2011 The Genealogical Society of Pennsylvania, in conjunction with Ancestry.com, presents "Pennsylvania Family History Day" on Saturday, November 5th in Exton (Chester County) PA, at the Wyndham Garden Hotel. In addition to Loretto "Lou" Szucs and Juliana Smith from Ancestry, featured presenters will include DearMYRTLE, Liza Alzo, Curt Witcher, Michael Hait, John Humphrey, Shamele Jordon, and others. Come early Friday night to our attendee reception! Meet fellow genealogists, explore the vendor area, and learn from the experts. Friday night reception, Saturday breakfast, and lunch are included in the price of this special event, which is $75 GSP members, $95 GSP non-members. Visit http://www.pafamilyhistoryday.eventbrite.com to register, or email us at [email protected] with any questions. More details can also be found at our website: http://www.genpa.org <http://www.genpa.org/>. Historic Chester County is located minutes from the PA turnpike and has a number of research repositories, museums and other attractions. Visit http://www.brandywinevalley.com/ for more information about the area. We hope you'll join us!

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My granddaughter, Aurelia Evangaline Rose Hill, was born April Marilyn Kline Washington

I just received notice of a cabinet card available on EBAY. Antique Cabinet Card 5 Children Carrolltown Pa Farabaug Not my family but may be someone elses.

I wonder if others have found and solved my problem trying to locate a child's grave.    My aunt Margaret Bourdess (also spelled Bordes, Burdess) was born in 1912 in South Fork.  She died as a  baby (quote from my grandmother:  "a lot of babies were taken up on the hill that year").  I can't find her grave, although there are other Bourdess, Burdess in South Fork Cemetery.  The Anthony Bourdess that is there is a relative (my g-grandfather).  George is my grandfather.    My cousin recalls a conversation with an older person in her church, who told her that there was a baby plot in the cemetery, back by the woods, where they buried babies and small children without grave markers.  I have researched the mass grave in Portage in 1918, but I wouldn't think she would have lived to be 6 if the family story is she died as a baby, plus I am not sure the family would have taken her all the way to Portage to be buried.  The story about South Fork Cemetery doesn't seem right, but I don't know what else could have happened.   The South Fork Lutheran Church is no longer in existence, although I am sure the records must be somewhere.  I don't know the year, so have no hope of searching the newspapers.  She is not in the obit index at the cambria county library, not in any of the cemetery indexes.  Anyone have a similar story?   Gail Dickinson researching Bourdess, Thomas, Layton 

Trier is still in Germany and has been since 1815 when Prussia annexed east half of Luxembourg along with the city. Before Luxembourg, it was part of the Elector of Trier (Archbishop of Trier was one of 7 Electors of Holy Roman Empire.) For a good length of time before and after A.D. 300, Trier was the seat of the Roman Empire for a good length of time. Emperor Constantine I the Great made his home in Trier. You will find Roman ruins and villages all over in Trier area, stretching all the way to Switzerland on the Left Bank of the Rhein, many villages have names ending in -weiler. David Samuelsen On 9/20/2011 1:32 PM, [email protected] wrote: > "Right. It used to be in Germany. The West Bank of the Rhine has been fought over by France and Germany . > Before 1789 and the French Revolution, it was in Germany [or part of the Holy Roman Empire.] In 1894 it became one of four Rhine provinces that became a part of France. In 1814, the Congress of Vienna gave the province back to Germany. I am not sure when it became part of France again. > This general area is where some of my ancestor lived, and I have tried to trace it at least up to the time my ancestors emigrated to the US. The last one was here about 1870 + or -, and the Franco Prussian War about 1870 [I think] gave the Rhineland back to Germany. > > Marilyn Kline Washington"

They had many ways, including sugar from sweet fruits, honey, sorghum, molasses made from corn, etc. David Samuelsen On 9/24/2011 8:41 PM, JCTripp wrote: > Hi Marilyn, > I'll refer you to this website The Food Timeline. Lynne Olver is a food > historian. > http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodcandy.html > Very interesting. > Regards, Jane > _________________________________ > Thanks for the answer. I found a book called "A Social History of the US" > and it talked about food. What we think of as the "Wild West" lived on > fresh meat, canned tomatoes and canned peaches. > The healthiest group in the early 1800's was the Pennsylvania Dutch from > the vitamins and minerals from their "sweet and sour" pickles. > Corn flakes and Graham crackers were developed as health foods and > originally purchased only at special clinics where they were used as health > food. > Rhubarb was known as "pie plant" and pies were made so "stiff" so they > could be held in the hand to eat. Now my question is, where did people get > the sugar to sweeten sour fruits for pies? > > Marilyn Kline Washington > > ______________________________ > > -----Original Message----- > From: JCTripp<[email protected]> > To: Cambria Co. PACAMBRIA<[email protected]> > Sent: Tue, Sep 20, 2011 12:17 pm > Subject: Re: [PACAMBRI] Pickled Vramatices > > > Thanks Harriet. > I assume Sam Lehman's handwriting did look like vramatices or you would > have > mentioned an alternate transcription. Other than some questions about the > meaning of *vramatices*, the only search result (Google, Ask, Bing) I found > was > the transcription of Sam's letter on Harvey Lehman's family history > website. I > thought perhaps Sam's handwriting was very hard to read and was transcribed > in > error as *vramatices*. Thanks for clearing this up. > Regards, Jane > __________________________________ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Harriet Zierer > To: JCTripp > Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 11:43 PM > Subject: Re: [PACAMBRI] Pickled Vramatices > > > Harvey Lehman's aunt, Edna Lehman, was my mother's first > cousin. > She sent copies of those letters to me and, in notes about the letters she > said > the word means tomatoes in Pennsylvania Dutch. > > > Harriet Zierer [email protected] > > - - - - - - - - - - > > Search for more Cambria County information on our webpage: > http://www.camgenpa.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi Marilyn, I'll refer you to this website The Food Timeline. Lynne Olver is a food historian. http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodcandy.html Very interesting. Regards, Jane _________________________________ Thanks for the answer. I found a book called "A Social History of the US" and it talked about food. What we think of as the "Wild West" lived on fresh meat, canned tomatoes and canned peaches. The healthiest group in the early 1800's was the Pennsylvania Dutch from the vitamins and minerals from their "sweet and sour" pickles. Corn flakes and Graham crackers were developed as health foods and originally purchased only at special clinics where they were used as health food. Rhubarb was known as "pie plant" and pies were made so "stiff" so they could be held in the hand to eat. Now my question is, where did people get the sugar to sweeten sour fruits for pies? Marilyn Kline Washington ______________________________ -----Original Message----- From: JCTripp <[email protected]> To: Cambria Co. PACAMBRIA <[email protected]> Sent: Tue, Sep 20, 2011 12:17 pm Subject: Re: [PACAMBRI] Pickled Vramatices Thanks Harriet. I assume Sam Lehman's handwriting did look like vramatices or you would have mentioned an alternate transcription. Other than some questions about the meaning of *vramatices*, the only search result (Google, Ask, Bing) I found was the transcription of Sam's letter on Harvey Lehman's family history website. I thought perhaps Sam's handwriting was very hard to read and was transcribed in error as *vramatices*. Thanks for clearing this up. Regards, Jane __________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: Harriet Zierer To: JCTripp Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 11:43 PM Subject: Re: [PACAMBRI] Pickled Vramatices Harvey Lehman's aunt, Edna Lehman, was my mother's first cousin. She sent copies of those letters to me and, in notes about the letters she said the word means tomatoes in Pennsylvania Dutch. Harriet Zierer [email protected]

"Right. It used to be in Germany. The West Bank of the Rhine has been fought over by France and Germany . Before 1789 and the French Revolution, it was in Germany [or part of the Holy Roman Empire.] In 1894 it became one of four Rhine provinces that became a part of France. In 1814, the Congress of Vienna gave the province back to Germany. I am not sure when it became part of France again. This general area is where some of my ancestor lived, and I have tried to trace it at least up to the time my ancestors emigrated to the US. The last one was here about 1870 + or -, and the Franco Prussian War about 1870 [I think] gave the Rhineland back to Germany. Marilyn Kline Washington" Marilyn. When I visited Trier in 1989, it was in Germany. Anyone wish to cnfirm?

Thanks Harriet. I assume Sam Lehman's handwriting did look like vramatices or you would have mentioned an alternate transcription. Other than some questions about the meaning of *vramatices*, the only search result (Google, Ask, Bing) I found was the transcription of Sam's letter on Harvey Lehman's family history website. I thought perhaps Sam's handwriting was very hard to read and was transcribed in error as *vramatices*. Thanks for clearing this up. Regards, Jane ----- Original Message ----- From: Harriet Zierer To: JCTripp Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 11:43 PM Subject: Re: [PACAMBRI] Pickled Vramatices Harvey Lehman's aunt, Edna Lehman, was my mother's first cousin. She sent copies of those letters to me and, in notes about the letters she said the word means tomatoes in Pennsylvania Dutch. Harriet Zierer [email protected] --- On Sat, 9/17/11, JCTripp <[email protected]> wrote: From: JCTripp <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PACAMBRI] Pickled Vramatices To: "Cambria Co. PACAMBRIA" <[email protected]> Date: Saturday, September 17, 2011, 3:55 PM I found this question very interesting. A short question, but a rather lengthly reply (but not an explanation of vramatices) from me. I did find a Civil War era letter to home from Morris Island, SC dated December 4, 1864 mentioning the food as part of the Lehman-Burke Family History by Harvey Eugene Lehman. Someone, perhaps the transcriber, has comments in paranthesis. "Monday, Dec. 4th AD 1864 Morris Island, S.C. Dear Brother and all ... ... I had quit my letter till this evening although I have nothing of importance to write at present but must tell you that we drawed a little eztra rashions (were issued a few extra rations) this evening. we drawed 5 onions each and a plaid (plate) full of pickled vramatecie (the meaning of the word, vramatecie, is unknown to me) and a lot of Butter Crackers, that we drawed all extra. well den I'll tell you what I ate for Supper. I got one full days rashions of Bread of (from) a feller that are sick he cant eat much for a few days, well den I ate that days Rashions of bread, my plaid full of Vramatices two meals Rashions of meat one onion, my rashion of coffee, although I am gone (going) to take a little bite yet before I go to bead (bed) I can have some more bread of (from) the man that aint well, I could eat every meal one days rashion(I could eat a whole days rations at every single meal), & am very thankful if I Say So until my year is expired (I will be glad when my enlistment runs out). ..." I looked at Morris Island in the Civil War about Dec 1864, sent an email to the Food Network (no reply yet) and checked with my local Civil War brainiac contacts. Role of Morris Island 1864 - Harvey Lehman describes the role of Morris Island at this time during the war - - "Letter from Samuel Lehman, December 4, 1864, from Fort Wagner on Morris Island, Charleston, SC. This letter by Sam is universal in describing the boredom of daily military life and in a soldier's preoccupation with getting food. I find his barbarous spelling and atrocious grammar appealing and appalling - Sel is So! Morris Island with Fort Wagner is situated on the south side of Charleston Harbor and had been captured and garrisoned by Union forces since 1862 as part of the blockade of Charleston along with other Southern Atlantic ports. The letter (dated Dec. 4 & 6, 1864) from Morris Island, SC, was written near the close of the war, just two weeks before Sherman completed the march from Atlanta to Savannah. By way of clarification, Fort Sumpter is on a small island in the middle of Charleston harbor and the armed point of land in the city facing the harbor is Charleston Battery. Sullivan Island and Morris Island form, respectively, the northern and southern borders of Charleston harbor. Under Union naval attack, Sullivan Island with Fort Moultry fell late in 1861. The Union took Morris Island with Fort Wagner late in 1863. Fort Wagner was garrisoned with armed troops who blockaded the entrance to Charleston harbor. In spite of repeated Federal bombardment, Confederate troops held Fort Sumpter until about six weeks before the war ended in 1865 when Charleston finally fell to Sherman." I'm hoping we have a Charleston SC history buff on this list to help, but given the information in the above letter, "we" came up with . . . *vramatecie* is probably of the Gullah or possibly Creole language of coastal northern Florida, Georgia and the Carolinas describing a locally grown or water harvested food. Sam is stationed at Morris Island and not on patrol or at camp, so his dinner is not of the common soldier's rations (beans, salt pork hardtack). Sam received a plateful of vramatecie which led us to believe it was found in abundant amounts in December. We noted that Sam did not mention a vegetable (other than onion) in his dinner description. With these clues, we concluded vramatecie was a local *green* grown on or near the island . Whatever the food, Sam ate a plateful AND it was pickled (or possibly *picked*). Although the word vramatecie appears twice, I wonder if there wasn't an error in transcribing the handwriting. I have not contacted Harvey Lehman, but would love to read other transcriptions of and look at the original handwriting. Please post if anyone contacts him. Nancy, in what context did you find the term *vramatices*? Regards, Jane Tripp ______________________________________ Original message From: Karns,Nancy C. To: '[email protected]' Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 2:27 PM Subject: [PACAMBRI] Another word meaning Hi, does anyone know what this word could mean: vramatices - used during Civil War - name of a food? German origin? thanks. Nancy Karns _____________________________________ Reply From: Marcia < [email protected]> Subject: Re: [PACAMBRI] Another word meaning Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 13:40:53 -0700 (PDT) Since you mentioned it in connection with food, the word may have been vermicelli. It was used in the 18th and 19th century to refer to thin noodles. I think the word means "little worms" in Italian. I find the term in several cookbooks from that time period. Marcia __________________________________ Reply From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 6:03 PM Subject: [PACAMBRI] Pickled Vramatices Did anyone ever come up with any additional information on what Civil War soldiers were eating when they ate pickled Vramatices. I have the e-mail address of the current Lenape Nation Chief in Wisconsin, Chief Robert Redhawk Ruth. I inquired with him as to whether any of his people knew what that referred to. He said none of their Clan Mothers had ever heard of such a thing but they knew their people pickled quite a few varieties of food for preserving them. Herman Nagle ______________________________

Right. It used to be in Germany. The West Bank of the Rhine has been fought over by France and Germany . Before 1789 and the French Revolution, it was in Germany [or part of the Holy Roman Empire.] In 1894 it became one of four Rhine provinces that became a part of France. In 1814, the Congress of Vienna gave the province back to Germany. I am not sure when it became part of France again. This general area is where some of my ancestor lived, and I have tried to trace it at least up to the time my ancestors emigrated to the US. The last one was here about 1870 + or -, and the Franco Prussian War about 1870 [I think] gave the Rhineland back to Germany. Marilyn Kline Washington -----Original Message----- From: genrsch <[email protected]> To: pacambri <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, Sep 19, 2011 3:07 pm Subject: Re: [PACAMBRI] PACAMBRI Digest, Vol 6, Issue 186 Trier is in Germany, not France. ----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Sep 19, 2011 3:00 AM To: [email protected] Subject: PACAMBRI Digest, Vol 6, Issue 186 Today's Topics: 1. vramatices (James Thomas Rosenbaum) 2. Fwd: Jacob Trier 1804-1879 (marilyn) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 05:04:13 -0400 From: "James Thomas Rosenbaum" <[email protected]> Subject: [PACAMBRI] vramatices To: "Message Cambria" <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" What I found: http://foragingfamily.blogspot.com/2011/04/allium-tricoccum-ramps-aka-wild-leeks.html James Thomas Rosenbaum 310 Melvin Street Johnstown, PA 15904-1219 814-266-6855 [email protected] ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 20:03:59 -0400 (EDT) From: marilyn <[email protected]> Subject: [PACAMBRI] Fwd: Jacob Trier 1804-1879 To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I am looking for [email protected] Do you know anything about this family? Trier is the name of one of the main towns along the Rhine River in rance, but I have not seen it used as a name. Where are allemans, Janesville? Toward Phillipsburg? Glasgow is a small illage in Cambria County. Tyrone is "down the mountain" from some of these places. It is located long Rt 220 and the Pensylvania RR. Claber is a Scotch word--baking powder or baking soda has as a mascot the labbered Girl, Baking soda or powder "sours" things. Nevling is a name around Coalport. Spacht is on tombstones in Ashville at St. homas.. Phillipsburg state hospital was a general hospital built by the state. The iner's Hospital at Spangler was also partially funded that way. Marilyn Kline Washington -----Original Message----- From: elaine wilkinson <[email protected]> To: Message Cambria <[email protected]> Sent: Fri, Sep 16, 2011 5:33 pm Subject: [PACAMBRI] Jacob Trier 1804-1879 Jacob Trier 1804 Germany d. 15 Feb 1879 buried at Mt. Zion Lutheran emetery Glasgow PA *hunting maiden name of wife Elizabeth ------- b. 1820 Germany ied bet 1886-1893 on Cambria co Will index for that time period / id not see marker at Mt. Zion hildren: Jacob Trier , Caroline Caber and Virbenna Glasgow 1880 census Cambria co Reade twp PA 123/143 lizabeth Trier 60 Bavaria enia 19 ? 124/144 acob Trier 30 Bavaria ane 28 PA acob W. 2 PA eorge H. 7/12 PA 3 children: 1 no parents listed on his obit acob Trier, 79, of Allemansville, died at his home at 1 a.m. Monday. e was born in Germany and came to America when seven years of age. urviving are his wife, Mrs. Jane Trier: two sons. William, of llemansville, and George, of Janesville; one daughter, Mrs. William ern, Juniata, and one sister, Mrs. Caroline Caber. March 7, 1928 Altoona Mirror) uried at Allemansville cemetery 1900 census Cambria co Reade twp PA #49/49 acob Trier Dec 1847 m22y Germany ane June 1859 ? PA had 3/3 children living illiam J. Aug 1878 eorge H. Nov 1879 ena J. Jul 1886 1910 census Cambria co Reade twp PA #232/240 acob Trear 61 Germany m32y ane 59 PA m32y had 3/3 children living eorge 29 1920 census Cambria co Reade twp PA #43/44 acob Trier 71 Germany ane 68 PA US special census on Deaf family, marriages and hearing relatives 888-1895 ame:Jacob Trier ender:Male esidence:Tyrone, Pennsylvania, United States ather:Jacob Trier other:Elizabeth pouse:Jane Dixon ender:Female pouse Residence:Northumberland, Pennsylvania, United States ather:James Dixon other:Harriet epository:Gallaudet University #2 no parents listed on her obit aroline 1856-1931 rs Caroline Caber, widow of John of Allemansville, died at hilipsburg State Hospital, 27 Jan 1931. She was born 23 Oct 1856. he is survived by children: Mrs Katie Spacht, Calvin of allentimber, Mrs Elizabeth Stevens, William, Millard, and Flora and uther at home. She was a member of the Allemansville Methodist hurch. Interment in Oak Grove Cemetery at Allemansville. (Altoona ribune, 29 Jan 1931) 1930 census Cambria co Reade twp PA 45/45 aroline Caber 73 wd harles L. 31 single lorance Nevling 33 daughter anna M. 4 gdaughter #3 no obit irbenna Trier 1861-1906 married Samuel Glasgow buried at Pleasant ill cemetery - - - - - - - - - Search for more Cambria County information on our webpage: ttp://www.camgenpa.com/ ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] >ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message ------------------------------ To contact the PACAMBRI list administrator, send an email to [email protected] To post a message to the PACAMBRI mailing list, send an email to [email protected] __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of he email with no additional text. End of PACAMBRI Digest, Vol 6, Issue 186 **************************************** - - - - - - - - - - Search for more Cambria County information on our webpage: ttp://www.camgenpa.com/ ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

Anyone interested there are Fisher family photos on ebay from Johnstown, also Grubb and Blough names.

Trier is in Germany, not France. -----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] >Sent: Sep 19, 2011 3:00 AM >To: [email protected] >Subject: PACAMBRI Digest, Vol 6, Issue 186 > > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. vramatices (James Thomas Rosenbaum) > 2. Fwd: Jacob Trier 1804-1879 (marilyn) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 05:04:13 -0400 >From: "James Thomas Rosenbaum" <[email protected]> >Subject: [PACAMBRI] vramatices >To: "Message Cambria" <[email protected]> >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >What I found: >http://foragingfamily.blogspot.com/2011/04/allium-tricoccum-ramps-aka-wild-leeks.html > >James Thomas Rosenbaum >310 Melvin Street >Johnstown, PA 15904-1219 >814-266-6855 >[email protected] > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 20:03:59 -0400 (EDT) >From: marilyn <[email protected]> >Subject: [PACAMBRI] Fwd: Jacob Trier 1804-1879 >To: [email protected] >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > >I am looking for [email protected] > > Do you know anything about this family? > Trier is the name of one of the main towns along the Rhine River in France, but I have not seen it used as a name. > >Where are allemans, Janesville? Toward Phillipsburg? Glasgow is a small village in Cambria County. > Tyrone is "down the mountain" from some of these places. It is located along Rt 220 and the Pensylvania RR. > >Claber is a Scotch word--baking powder or baking soda has as a mascot the Clabbered Girl, Baking soda or powder "sours" things. > >Nevling is a name around Coalport. Spacht is on tombstones in Ashville at St. Thomas.. > >Phillipsburg state hospital was a general hospital built by the state. The Miner's Hospital at Spangler was also partially funded that way. > > >Marilyn Kline Washington > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: elaine wilkinson <[email protected]> >To: Message Cambria <[email protected]> >Sent: Fri, Sep 16, 2011 5:33 pm >Subject: [PACAMBRI] Jacob Trier 1804-1879 > > >Jacob Trier 1804 Germany d. 15 Feb 1879 buried at Mt. Zion Lutheran >emetery Glasgow PA > *hunting maiden name of wife Elizabeth ------- b. 1820 Germany >ied bet 1886-1893 on Cambria co Will index for that time period / >id not see marker at Mt. Zion >hildren: Jacob Trier , Caroline Caber and Virbenna Glasgow >1880 census Cambria co Reade twp PA >123/143 >lizabeth Trier 60 Bavaria >enia 19 ? >124/144 >acob Trier 30 Bavaria >ane 28 PA >acob W. 2 PA >eorge H. 7/12 PA >3 children: >1 no parents listed on his obit >acob Trier, 79, of Allemansville, died at his home at 1 a.m. Monday. >e was born in Germany and came to America when seven years of age. >urviving are his wife, Mrs. Jane Trier: two sons. William, of >llemansville, and George, of Janesville; one daughter, Mrs. William >ern, Juniata, and one sister, Mrs. Caroline Caber. >March 7, 1928 Altoona Mirror) >uried at Allemansville cemetery >1900 census Cambria co Reade twp PA #49/49 >acob Trier Dec 1847 m22y Germany >ane June 1859 ? PA had 3/3 children living >illiam J. Aug 1878 >eorge H. Nov 1879 >ena J. Jul 1886 >1910 census Cambria co Reade twp PA #232/240 >acob Trear 61 Germany m32y >ane 59 PA m32y had 3/3 children living >eorge 29 >1920 census Cambria co Reade twp PA #43/44 >acob Trier 71 Germany >ane 68 PA >US special census on Deaf family, marriages and hearing relatives >888-1895 >ame:Jacob Trier >ender:Male >esidence:Tyrone, Pennsylvania, United States >ather:Jacob Trier >other:Elizabeth >pouse:Jane Dixon >ender:Female >pouse Residence:Northumberland, Pennsylvania, United States >ather:James Dixon >other:Harriet >epository:Gallaudet University >#2 no parents listed on her obit >aroline 1856-1931 >rs Caroline Caber, widow of John of Allemansville, died at >hilipsburg State Hospital, 27 Jan 1931. She was born 23 Oct 1856. >he is survived by children: Mrs Katie Spacht, Calvin of >allentimber, Mrs Elizabeth Stevens, William, Millard, and Flora and >uther at home. She was a member of the Allemansville Methodist >hurch. Interment in Oak Grove Cemetery at Allemansville. (Altoona >ribune, 29 Jan 1931) >1930 census Cambria co Reade twp PA 45/45 >aroline Caber 73 wd >harles L. 31 single >lorance Nevling 33 daughter >anna M. 4 gdaughter >#3 no obit >irbenna Trier 1861-1906 married Samuel Glasgow buried at Pleasant >ill cemetery > > - - - - - - - - - >Search for more Cambria County information on our webpage: >ttp://www.camgenpa.com/ >------------------------------ >o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] >ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of >he message > > > >------------------------------ > >To contact the PACAMBRI list administrator, send an email to >[email protected] > >To post a message to the PACAMBRI mailing list, send an email to [email protected] > >__________________________________________________________ >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] >with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >email with no additional text. > > >End of PACAMBRI Digest, Vol 6, Issue 186 >****************************************

I am looking for [email protected] Do you know anything about this family? Trier is the name of one of the main towns along the Rhine River in France, but I have not seen it used as a name. Where are allemans, Janesville? Toward Phillipsburg? Glasgow is a small village in Cambria County. Tyrone is "down the mountain" from some of these places. It is located along Rt 220 and the Pensylvania RR. Claber is a Scotch word--baking powder or baking soda has as a mascot the Clabbered Girl, Baking soda or powder "sours" things. Nevling is a name around Coalport. Spacht is on tombstones in Ashville at St. Thomas.. Phillipsburg state hospital was a general hospital built by the state. The Miner's Hospital at Spangler was also partially funded that way. Marilyn Kline Washington -----Original Message----- From: elaine wilkinson <[email protected]> To: Message Cambria <[email protected]> Sent: Fri, Sep 16, 2011 5:33 pm Subject: [PACAMBRI] Jacob Trier 1804-1879 Jacob Trier 1804 Germany d. 15 Feb 1879 buried at Mt. Zion Lutheran emetery Glasgow PA *hunting maiden name of wife Elizabeth ------- b. 1820 Germany ied bet 1886-1893 on Cambria co Will index for that time period / id not see marker at Mt. Zion hildren: Jacob Trier , Caroline Caber and Virbenna Glasgow 1880 census Cambria co Reade twp PA 123/143 lizabeth Trier 60 Bavaria enia 19 “ 124/144 acob Trier 30 Bavaria ane 28 PA acob W. 2 PA eorge H. 7/12 PA 3 children: 1 no parents listed on his obit acob Trier, 79, of Allemansville, died at his home at 1 a.m. Monday. e was born in Germany and came to America when seven years of age. urviving are his wife, Mrs. Jane Trier: two sons. William, of llemansville, and George, of Janesville; one daughter, Mrs. William ern, Juniata, and one sister, Mrs. Caroline Caber. March 7, 1928 Altoona Mirror) uried at Allemansville cemetery 1900 census Cambria co Reade twp PA #49/49 acob Trier Dec 1847 m22y Germany ane June 1859 “ PA had 3/3 children living illiam J. Aug 1878 eorge H. Nov 1879 ena J. Jul 1886 1910 census Cambria co Reade twp PA #232/240 acob Trear 61 Germany m32y ane 59 PA m32y had 3/3 children living eorge 29 1920 census Cambria co Reade twp PA #43/44 acob Trier 71 Germany ane 68 PA US special census on Deaf family, marriages and hearing relatives 888-1895 ame:Jacob Trier ender:Male esidence:Tyrone, Pennsylvania, United States ather:Jacob Trier other:Elizabeth pouse:Jane Dixon ender:Female pouse Residence:Northumberland, Pennsylvania, United States ather:James Dixon other:Harriet epository:Gallaudet University #2 no parents listed on her obit aroline 1856-1931 rs Caroline Caber, widow of John of Allemansville, died at hilipsburg State Hospital, 27 Jan 1931. She was born 23 Oct 1856. he is survived by children: Mrs Katie Spacht, Calvin of allentimber, Mrs Elizabeth Stevens, William, Millard, and Flora and uther at home. She was a member of the Allemansville Methodist hurch. Interment in Oak Grove Cemetery at Allemansville. (Altoona ribune, 29 Jan 1931) 1930 census Cambria co Reade twp PA 45/45 aroline Caber 73 wd harles L. 31 single lorance Nevling 33 daughter anna M. 4 gdaughter #3 no obit irbenna Trier 1861-1906 married Samuel Glasgow buried at Pleasant ill cemetery - - - - - - - - - Search for more Cambria County information on our webpage: ttp://www.camgenpa.com/ ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

What I found: http://foragingfamily.blogspot.com/2011/04/allium-tricoccum-ramps-aka-wild-leeks.html James Thomas Rosenbaum 310 Melvin Street Johnstown, PA 15904-1219 814-266-6855 [email protected]

I found this question very interesting. A short question, but a rather lengthly reply (but not an explanation of vramatices) from me. I did find a Civil War era letter to home from Morris Island, SC dated December 4, 1864 mentioning the food as part of the Lehman-Burke Family History by Harvey Eugene Lehman. Someone, perhaps the transcriber, has comments in paranthesis. "Monday, Dec. 4th AD 1864 Morris Island, S.C. Dear Brother and all ... ... I had quit my letter till this evening although I have nothing of importance to write at present but must tell you that we drawed a little eztra rashions (were issued a few extra rations) this evening. we drawed 5 onions each and a plaid (plate) full of pickled vramatecie (the meaning of the word, vramatecie, is unknown to me) and a lot of Butter Crackers, that we drawed all extra. well den I'll tell you what I ate for Supper. I got one full days rashions of Bread of (from) a feller that are sick he cant eat much for a few days, well den I ate that days Rashions of bread, my plaid full of Vramatices two meals Rashions of meat one onion, my rashion of coffee, although I am gone (going) to take a little bite yet before I go to bead (bed) I can have some more bread of (from) the man that aint well, I could eat every meal one days rashion(I could eat a whole days rations at every single meal), & am very thankful if I Say So until my year is expired (I will be glad when my enlistment runs out). ..." I looked at Morris Island in the Civil War about Dec 1864, sent an email to the Food Network (no reply yet) and checked with my local Civil War brainiac contacts. Role of Morris Island 1864 - Harvey Lehman describes the role of Morris Island at this time during the war - - "Letter from Samuel Lehman, December 4, 1864, from Fort Wagner on Morris Island, Charleston, SC. This letter by Sam is universal in describing the boredom of daily military life and in a soldier's preoccupation with getting food. I find his barbarous spelling and atrocious grammar appealing and appalling - Sel is So! Morris Island with Fort Wagner is situated on the south side of Charleston Harbor and had been captured and garrisoned by Union forces since 1862 as part of the blockade of Charleston along with other Southern Atlantic ports. The letter (dated Dec. 4 & 6, 1864) from Morris Island, SC, was written near the close of the war, just two weeks before Sherman completed the march from Atlanta to Savannah. By way of clarification, Fort Sumpter is on a small island in the middle of Charleston harbor and the armed point of land in the city facing the harbor is Charleston Battery. Sullivan Island and Morris Island form, respectively, the northern and southern borders of Charleston harbor. Under Union naval attack, Sullivan Island with Fort Moultry fell late in 1861. The Union took Morris Island with Fort Wagner late in 1863. Fort Wagner was garrisoned with armed troops who blockaded the entrance to Charleston harbor. In spite of repeated Federal bombardment, Confederate troops held Fort Sumpter until about six weeks before the war ended in 1865 when Charleston finally fell to Sherman." I'm hoping we have a Charleston SC history buff on this list to help, but given the information in the above letter, "we" came up with . . . *vramatecie* is probably of the Gullah or possibly Creole language of coastal northern Florida, Georgia and the Carolinas describing a locally grown or water harvested food. Sam is stationed at Morris Island and not on patrol or at camp, so his dinner is not of the common soldier's rations (beans, salt pork hardtack). Sam received a plateful of vramatecie which led us to believe it was found in abundant amounts in December. We noted that Sam did not mention a vegetable (other than onion) in his dinner description. With these clues, we concluded vramatecie was a local *green* grown on or near the island . Whatever the food, Sam ate a plateful AND it was pickled (or possibly *picked*). Although the word vramatecie appears twice, I wonder if there wasn't an error in transcribing the handwriting. I have not contacted Harvey Lehman, but would love to read other transcriptions of and look at the original handwriting. Please post if anyone contacts him. Nancy, in what context did you find the term *vramatices*? Regards, Jane Tripp ______________________________________ Original message From: Karns,Nancy C. To: '[email protected]' Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 2:27 PM Subject: [PACAMBRI] Another word meaning Hi, does anyone know what this word could mean: vramatices - used during Civil War - name of a food? German origin? thanks. Nancy Karns _____________________________________ Reply From: Marcia < [email protected]> Subject: Re: [PACAMBRI] Another word meaning Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 13:40:53 -0700 (PDT) Since you mentioned it in connection with food, the word may have been vermicelli. It was used in the 18th and 19th century to refer to thin noodles. I think the word means "little worms" in Italian. I find the term in several cookbooks from that time period. Marcia __________________________________ Reply From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 6:03 PM Subject: [PACAMBRI] Pickled Vramatices Did anyone ever come up with any additional information on what Civil War soldiers were eating when they ate pickled Vramatices. I have the e-mail address of the current Lenape Nation Chief in Wisconsin, Chief Robert Redhawk Ruth. I inquired with him as to whether any of his people knew what that referred to. He said none of their Clan Mothers had ever heard of such a thing but they knew their people pickled quite a few varieties of food for preserving them. Herman Nagle ______________________________

Did anyone ever come up with any additional information on what Civil War soldiers were eating when they ate pickled Vramatices. I have the e-mail address of the current Lenape Nation Chief in Wisconsin, Chief Robert Redhawk Ruth. I inquired with him as to whether any of his people knew what that referred to. He said none of their Clan Mothers had ever heard of such a thing but they knew their people pickled quite a few varieties of food for preserving them. Herman Nagle