My experience is in New Jersey, but I wouldn't be surprised if the law were more a local rather than a state law. We discovered our small family plot which was probably on the "back forty" of the family farm. It was now where 3 or 4 houses' backyards meet, and we found its existence from a book of cemeteries in the library, and the exact location from a teenager (naturally) who worked in a nearby plant nursery. There are two couples with excellent large stones buried there (the generation between them is skipped) and then the oldest, a small reddish stone. There are also several small stones for children not in the direct line. There was a 15 foot easement for access at the edge of someone's lawn, and the plot itself is in a small area where trees and shrubs have been left, so it is not at all visible from the street. It was probably set aside when the subdivision was built from the farmland. What we were told is that the easement would be kept for 100 years from the date the last person was buried there, and if no family member made contact in that time it would no longer be valid. The earliest stone was 1800 and the last was 1890 - we contacted the town offices just a few years before it would have expired, about 1988. In view of the fact that the area is totally developed, I doubt that any change would be made anyway. We go there occasionally, and walk carefully up the maybe 50 feet at the edge of the owner's lawn, push through the bushes, and make our visit. We're probably very fortunate! Regina Haring, Nanuet, NY > Just what are the laws regarding cemeteries? When visiting two small > cemeteries in Bradford County this spring we were advised that both were on > private property. At one, the property owner said that his deed included an > easement to the cemetery, though it is cared for by descendants of some of > those interred there. Access obviously requires walking across a lawn so we > stopped an asked first. The second cemetery is located at the side of the > road and has over 200 graves. The property owner came out to chat and was > cordial but specifically said it is on their property so they are responsible > for mowing it. Years ago it was part of a family owned farm but the current > owners are not related. > >

----- Original Message ----- From: <SusiCP@aol.com> To: <lewtown@erols.com> Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 11:00 PM Subject: Re: [PAWESTMO-L] Fw: [PABRADFO] Destruction of Cemeteries and The Law > Dick > > I agree with you but this is really more than Bradford Co PA its all over > PA, WVA , VA , KY , CA everywhere. So lets see if we can help solve yours > then do something larger to benefit all. MY thoughts .. Will say Prayers to > .. Prayer is really powerful .. > Susi

Hello Is there still a PRATT Cemetery in Canton, or has time taken this one also? Is there any one with the records for this cemetery I can contact? I am too far away to research it, but the keys to our Pratt family are buried here, It is not one that has been listed online Thanks for any help Dee Dolores Pratt Davidson Chautauqua Co NY

Hi All Friends and Guests of <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~srgp/jmtindex.htm">Tri-County Genealogy Site of Joyce M. Tice</A> Most of these Tri-County Mail List discussions seem to be applying our current laws and rules to cemeteries that were in existence long before such "lot purchases" had any existence and which no longer have new burials. Site Guest and helper, Dick McCracken has recently retired as Director of Veteran's Affairs of Bradford County and he is our "expert" on the issues of cemeteries in Pennsylvania. I will ask him to do a write-up of these issues for the site so that we can all know what the present rules are and what they apply to. Perhaps we can also locate someone with similar expertise in New York to provide the same information to the site so that we can all see it and understand it. This will also help us take action on other small cemeteries before we have a repeat of this catastrophe. If any of you have expert knowledge on these issues, please write to me Joyce M. Tice at JoyceTice@aol.com, so I can create a page on the site with this information. Thanks, Joyce M. Tice <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~srgp/jmtindex.htm">Tr i-County Genealogy Site of Joyce M. Tice</A>

On vcation till Mid-May..I love the site and will be back,... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

Wondering if there are any Dickinson, or Blatchley (Blakeslee) records also anything on Phelps/Dodge corporation in the lumbering section...my family was heavily involved in the timber industry and were sole agents for Phelps/Dodge...I have several letters from William Earl Dodge, 1839 to Daniel Dickinson who was in Buenos Aires, Argentina. Thanks ! Cynthia Dickinson Researching Dickinson, Stowell, Blakeslee, Jefferies, Jackson, Iddings, Whiting, Curtis, Green, Cobb, Dalrymple, Bixby, Phelps, Dodge....CT, MA, NY, PA, WI.

This one really is no hoax. The California State Board of Control Computer System was shut down most of the day today by this virus. Was not a productive work day.

Hi Listers, The response to my note is fantastic. The Daily Review is receiving many notes from all over the lower 48 and Alaska. Keep it up. Don't contact the U.S. Dept of Veterans Affairs about cemetery destruction that occurs in cemeteries that are not VA-owned. They can do nothing about it. In fact, they are prohibited from interfering in state matters, and this is a state, county and township issue. (I just retired as Director of Veterans Affairs, Bradford County and have worked with PA cemetery law for the past 11 years). The course of action in Pennsylvania is to contact police authorities and the media. The more he media becomes involved the more pressure will be put on law enforcement to do something. The District Attorney will only refer the matter to the police authorities for investigation and the police must present charges if they determine that vandalism occurred. If you have a local police force you must go to them. If you don't, then go to the State Police. Another consideration is for members of families who have family buried in a vandalized or damaged cemetery to bring a civil suit against those involved. I don't have a copy of the Township and Borough Codes at hand so will paraphrase this from memory. It is the law which covers Abandoned Cemetery; I believe it is in Section 13xxx and it does NOT cover cemeteries located within incorporated boroughs and cities: 1. A cemetery located on privately owned property: There are two options: a. The Township Supervisors notify the land owner that the cemetery must be cleaned and maintained. After the proper number of legal notices, if the owner fails to respond, the Supervisors may clean the cemetery and bill the landowner. b. A petition may be circulated within the Township and 25 signatures obtained. This is submitted to the Court of Common Pleas and the judge signs an order requiring the Township Supervisors to maintain the cemetery at township expense, spending no more than $500 of general revenue funds doing so, and keeping it open to the public. 2. An unkept cemetery within a Boro: A petition or referendum (I don't remember which) must be circulated within the unit. Three fourths of the land owners must request that the Boro take action to completely clear the cemetery of all headstones, erect a single marker containing all of the information inscribed on each stone. The remaining cleared area can then be mowed and kept. The land can not be used for any other purpose. These laws are not working or are not workable. I've never known a township supervisor to demand a resident do anything; it's unpopular. Stay tuned... as soon as I can get appointments with them I am going to talk to both my local Representative and Senator about possible changes in these laws. Several years ago I spoke to a Representative about responsibility for maintenance of cemeteries located in state owned land, e.g., state forests, state game lands. He researched the question and found that there is no requirement in law for state agencies to do anything to care for them. He said that he would introduce legislation and asked me to do some follow-up before he did so. It got put off and I never did as he asked. I know that he is personally interested in this and I will speak to him again. Once this has hit our local papers he will be prone to agree to pursue legislation. Now, PLEASE do not rush out and contact your legislators. Give me a chance to work with mine. I'm afraid that if too many become involved too early they will quibble over detail, be inclined to consider their special interests, and this will get nowhere. We've all seen this work when the farm and the urban interests collide. If legislation is drafted, I will advise all and ask that they contact their Reps asking that they co-sponsor the bill. If legislation is not forthcoming I will notify you and you can request it from your Rep. Implement my signature note! Thanks for the concern and support. We can do this! Dick McCracken Towanda, PA -- Plan Your Work... Work Your Plan...

there is a small cemetary on armenia mt my fiance and i visit every year we don't know anyone there but the last time a stone was decorated besides us to our knowledge was in 1974 if anyone knows what it is called or has an interest in it please let us know and we will see if any of the stones are still ledgible..you are probably thinking it strange we visit it but we do every year it just kind of draws us .... it is on the alba side of armenia mt no sign as to what the name of it was ray

When you purchase a grave space or lot you only purchase the right to be buried in the grounds and the right of memorialization within the rules of the governing organization. The Cemetery Association or Town owns the property. I don't know if Pennsylvania has a State Department that governs the cemeteries or not but New York State does. If a problem arises in New York you would contact the Division of Cemeteries at the New York State Department of State. It is also illegal in New York State to remove cemetery markers from the graves and cemeteries on farm lands are supposed to be fenced off and maintained by the township they are located in. At least this was what I was told by the Division of Cemeteries Representative. Take Care. Marlene

Just what are the laws regarding cemeteries? When visiting two small cemeteries in Bradford County this spring we were advised that both were on private property. At one, the property owner said that his deed included an easement to the cemetery, though it is cared for by descendants of some of those interred there. Access obviously requires walking across a lawn so we stopped an asked first. The second cemetery is located at the side of the road and has over 200 graves. The property owner came out to chat and was cordial but specifically said it is on their property so they are responsible for mowing it. Years ago it was part of a family owned farm but the current owners are not related. Could there be some sort of legislative remedy? Perhaps a bill requiring preservation of cemeteries on private ground as historical or hallowed sites? Among this list, can we inquire about laws elsewhere in the nation that might serve as a model? Lee Kinnan Fazzari

Hello All: Just wanted to throw this idea out and see what you think. When you buy a burial plot do you own that piece of ground? If we do, how can someone else give permission to log on our property? Class action law suit??? Thanks for reading. elizabeth

----- Original Message ----- From: "TLN" <tomnagy@nauticom.net> To: "Lewis Townsend" <lewtown@erols.com> Cc: <rjm001@epix.net> Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 3:24 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [PABRADFO] Old Frenchtown Cemetery - Update > Just read the "follow up" note. > > See you're getting action. > > Handling these sort of problems is easy once you get the > media involved. > > Timber is very valuable and those logging companies like > to cut a few "over the line". Happens often if you don't keep > a close eye on them. My guess is that a little $$ ended up in a > local politicans pocket if permission was granted to log this > cemetery. > > Tom Nagy > Sarver, PA. > > > > > On 3 May 00, at 21:11, Lewis Townsend wrote: > > > Follow up to problem at other end of state. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dick McCracken" <rjm001@epix.net> > > To: <PABRADFO-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 5:09 PM > > Subject: [PABRADFO] Old Frenchtown Cemetery - Update > > > > > > > This morning I received some legal advice from an attorney who monitors > > > this list. He advised that I go to both the District Attorney and to > > > the local news media. I did. I also contacted the BC Historical > > > Society. > > > > > > The DA's office immediately redirected me to the PA State Police who > > > have jurisdiction in Asylum Township. A PSP investigator said that he > > > would go to the cemetery this afternoon and look it over... I went to > > > the Daily Review. One of their reporters left immediately to go to the > > > site, take pictures and prepare a story for publication "in a couple, > > > three days." Things are progressing. > > > > > > Calvin Emery has suggested that you send a note to the Daily Review > > > expressing your thoughts. I think this is a real good idea. He > > > published their address: <review@epix.net>. Please include me as cc: > > > on any note you may submit <rjm001@epix.net> (that's zero zero one). > > > I'll keep a copy of everything and use it to illustrate what can be done > > > (assuming something IS done). Maybe it can be used as a model for > > > others; maybe we can all learn from it. > > > > > > I'm not a crusader and I don't have any known family buried in this > > > cemetery, although I'm related to almost everybody whose family has been > > > in this country for more than two generations. But I am a local history > > > buff and a sometimes genealogist. As a former member of the volunteer > > > archaeological staff of The Carnegie Museum of Natural History I have an > > > avid interest in historic and pre-historic preservation. Although the > > > cemetery is far from destroyed, it is, in my estimation, severely > > > damaged. Your expressions of concern for this and all other old, small > > > and obscure cemeteries may help raise awareness of both their historic > > > and sentimental value. Further, a person has an expectation that > > > his/her final resting place will be there forever, cared for by future > > > generations. Our involvement may also deter others from trying to > > > exploit these sites in the future. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Dick McCracken > > > Towanda, PA > > > -- > > > Plan Your Work... Work Your Plan... > > > > > > > > > ==== PAINDIAN Mailing List ==== > > INDIANA COUNTY HISTORICAL & GENEALOGICAL SOCIETY > > E-mail address <clarkhs@microserve.net> > > > > > >

----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Kreitman" <sarahkr@mindspring.com> To: "Lewis Townsend" <lewtown@erols.com> Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 9:56 AM Subject: Re: [PAWESTMO-L] Fw: [PABRADFO] Old Frenchtown Cemetery - Update > > > I am interested in stopping the vandalism in Livermore Cemetary located in > Derry/Blairsville, PA. > > This has been habitual over the years. > > I am interested in speaking to others who have an interest in combining ideas > and pursuing this. > > Any interest, pls. write. > > Sarah K. > > > >

Hi everyone, if you get this notice twice it was due to how my address book is set up. I just receive this warning from my Internet Server ISMI. (I had sent this out earlier but for some reason it didn't mail, as far as I know, so am sending it again. A couple of lists have been talking about it, already, but I am sending on again, as a cousin just reported her place of business had received this virus today). Since this is the first time they have notified me, a customer of theirs, of a virus problem in this manner, I must take it as being a serious one. So read PLEASE read the following letter they sent me... so you'll be informed too, since we have all been in contact with each other at some point in time. Bobbie. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 12:00 PM Subject: 5/4/2000 12:30p - ISMI Update - Virus Alert Hi, Please read this e-mail very thoroughly, this is very serious and can save you a lot of time and frustration. A new virus (actually an 'e-mail worm'), which travels through e-mail and is showing up under the subject "ILOVEYOU" with an attachment entitled "LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.TXT.vbs", is spreading very quickly around the Internet and taking down mail servers, business and home computers. This is *NOT* a hoax, please do not open the attachment. If you simply delete the message, you will be fine. According to a scan performed by our technicians only minutes ago, over 300 ISMI e-mail accounts have this attachment in their e-mail. This does NOT mean these people are infected, this simply means that they need to delete that message as soon as their computer receives it. Currently, our programmers are working on a way to automatically filter this attachment before it reaches your computer. We hope to have this up and implemented within the hour. For complete information on this worm, please visit the following Web Sites (if you are already infected, please visit the Symantec link for information on removing it): Yahoo! News - http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20000504/tc/computer_love_bug_3.html Infoworld - http://www.infoworld.com/articles/en/xml/00/05/04/000504enlovevirus.xml Symantec (makers of Norton Anti-Virus software) - http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/vbs.loveletter.a.html -- ISMI Support

----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Kreitman" <sarahkr@mindspring.com> To: <PAWESTMO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 10:12 AM Subject: [PAWESTMO-L] Vandalism to Cemetaries > To All Listers: > > Destruction to Livermore Cemetary, (Blairsville,PA) has been chronic. > > -Beautiful old headstones have been smashed and are obviously > irreplaceable. > > -Grave sites are run over by vehicles "for fun" on a regular basis. > > To stop this: > 1. Veterans' Admin. should be notified. 1-800-827-1000 > 2. Local newspapers should be made aware of this. > 3. District attorney should be notified. > 4. State Police must be notified and must take action. > 5. Internet must be used effectively. Copy this list. Give it to > other communities whose graveyards are being destroyed and desecrated. > > > Is there anyone out there interested in helping me to stop vandalism at > Livermore? > > Concerned responses appreciated. > > sarahkr@mindspring.com > > > > >

To All Concerned: The discussion of small family plots and the careless destruction of them over the years, reminds me of the one across from the house I grew up in just outside of West Franklin. It is on a little knoll, on the right side of the road coming from Canton. When I was very young you could still read the family stone set in the center (very distinctive like the Washington Monument in D.C.). I believe it was for the Samuel Weller or Webber family. He died sometime around the 1880s, wife was Martha (I think) and some children's names were on other smaller stones there too. All surrounded by a low iron fence and bordered on one side by a cow pasture and on the other side by a small gravel bank. As the years went by the plot became smaller and smaller. People taking gravel (I think my parents told me that they had heard that so much gravel was being removed that the edge of the caskets began to show, but that might have been just one of those stories) and finally the farmer who owns the land now has moved his fence to the very edge of the gravel bank to gain a little more space for his animals. Allowing them to freely roam over the graves. The last time I saw the plot the only thing left was the tall marble obelisk. Very sad. Shari Schrader Roush California

Hi All, I usually sit on the side lines and listen but this one riled me a little... What kind of laws are there to protect plot owners in PA? Are there any attorneys or law clerks on the list that can answer? I would think unless a community claimed immenent domain over the property for another use or the land affected is not "owned" by a prospective inhabitant (or current one)that the logging and destruction would be actionable. But the question would be by who? Most of the cemeteries this happens to are older and there is no one to stand up for the people this hurts. Kim

Hi All Friends and Guests of <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~srgp/jmtindex.htm">Tri-Counties Genealogy & History Sites of Joyce M. Tice</A> I have just uploaded the LaPorte Family Burials of Asylum. Youcan reach this from the Asylum Township Page. If you want to see photos of the Old Frenchtown Cemetery that was "Logged" you can also reach them from the Asylum Township pages. Joyce M. Tice <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~srgp/jmtindex.htm">Tri-Counti es Genealogy & History Sites of Joyce M. Tice</A>

Rolland: You are too funny, Keep it coming, the more you laugh the longer you live! Thanks......Lizzie greene