Carla, I wonder if your Henry is related either to this Henry who died 1817 or a Wendel Kramer? There is a will for a Henry KREMER/KRAMER, who died in Robeson 9/30/1817, and had a son named Henry, a Jr.. Here is will abstract: Henry KREMER/KRAMER, Robeson written 9/21/1817, and probated 10/30/1817 Sons John, Wendel and Henry Jr. Execs: Sons John and Wendel Wiwt: Peter SCHWEITZER and Peter FRANKHAUER. Son John renounced on 10/30/1817. Witness: John ZIEMER. He is buried in Allegheny Churchyard: Kramer, Henry May 9, 1769 Sept 30, 1817 aged 48y,4m,22d see: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~paberks/cemetery/AlleghanyChurchGraveyardA-K.html In 1850 Census, Samuel is shown here in Brecknock, Berks Co. (His mother seems to be Elizabeth age 50, and a widow - not sure who Isaac Diemer is, unless a soninlaw?) Isaac Diemer age 27 farmer PA Elisabeth Kremer 50 PA Saml Kremer 23 PA (yours before he married Juliann Ziemer) Elias Kremer age 21 PA Sarah Kremer 6 PA school Adam Feetz? 11 PA school Elisabeth, Elias and Samuel are buried at Alleghenyville, Brecknock, but I don't see Henry listed there: Kramer, Elizabeth July 5, 1800 April 29, 1889 aged 88y,9m,24d, wife of Henry Kramer Kramer, Elias Feb 5, 1829 Sep 02, 1910 aged 81y,6m,27d, father Kramer, Samuel March 15, 1827 May 18, 1906 http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~paberks/cemetery/AlleghanyvilleCemeteryA-K.html However, there is a Kremer, Heinrich March 26, 1797 Nov 18, 1848 aged 51y,7m,13d who could be the right age to be father of your Samuel and he is buried at Allegheny Churchyard. I think his widow is Elisabeth with sons Elias, Samuel shown in the 1850 Census. This Henry seems to be the one you are looking for as father of Samuel, but now the problem is finding his parents. Nothing like reusing the same first name! There is also a will abstract file for a Wendel KRAMER who died in Caernarvon, Berks Co in 1817 also, and he too had a son Henry. This Wendel seems to be the father of the above Henry, since the son Wendel mentioned in the later's will was still alive when Henry wrote his will in 9/21/1817, and a ZIEMER was a witness. I think that the Henry who died 9/30/1817 is the son of this Wendel who died 6/19/1817 - a bad year for them! KREMER (KRAMER), WENDEL, Caernarvon. June 6, 1817 - July 14, 1817. Provides for wife Anna Maria and 2 children, but only Henry mentioned. Exrs: Anna Maria and son Henry. Wit: John WOMMER and John ZIEMER. (Notice that John ZIEMER also witnessed his will) He is also buried in Allegheny churchyard in Brecknock: Kramer, Wendel June 19, 1744 June 19, 1817 aged 73 years Another Henry KRAMER is buried there, but died in his 46th year, born in 1767 which would be 1813. However I do not see any will abstract or estate file for him in that year. I believe this is a mistake and he is the Henry who died in 1817. The only Henry KREMER on the Register of Wills is the one who died in 1817 in Brecknock: Kremer Henry 1817 Brecknock Township 19 pages. http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~paberks/cemetery/AlleghanyChurchGraveyardA-K.html Kramer, Henry 1767 died in 46th year of his age I would check Allegheny church records at both Luth and Ref there for more clues. Or if anyone can go to the cemetery for a photo of the one who died 1813 at Allegheny Churchyard and the one who died 1817....... to verify there are really 2 Henry's buried there. Diana in AL audianaq@msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: backtoeve@verizon.net Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 Subject: [PABERKS] Kramer Would like to find others searching the surname Kramer in Berks County. My great grandfather was Peter Kramer son of Samuel Kramer and Julian Ziemer. Samuel's father was Henry Kramer. From what little I have been able to learn they all lived in Berks County for many years. My grandmother, Martha Helen was one of eight or nine children. Thanks, Carla