Bruce- LOL! I've never figured out which came first--just know they did that in naming the children. I was once told that German Reformed did this and not Lutherans or the other way around (I forget) but all of mine seem to have done it regardless of religion (except for the Mennonites and COB families who didn't practice infant baptism). Joan ---------------------- Hi, I've always thought that it was the other way around, and the baptism sponsors were chosen because they had the same name as the parents wanted to name their child. **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
Hi, I've always thought that it was the other way around, and the baptism sponsors were chosen because they had the same name as the parents wanted to name their child. I think this could be discussed ad infinitum, just like the chicken and the egg. I think if you find one set of parents using one of the established patterns, then you could make use of that pattern as clues to go looking for grandparents' names, etc. I don't think it's ever a sure thing. But I'm all for finding original baptismal records. The sponsors' names could provide clues about grandparents, etc. as above. They often provide the name of a brother's wife, or provide the married name of a sister. They certainly provide surnames of families who were closely associated with that set of parents, whether they were close friends, neighbors, or simply other members of that church. That's useful, because friends, neighbors, and other church members often migrated together, providing clues that I refer to as 'cluster genealogy'. Several times, I have lost track of one of my families, but was able to find some neighbors who moved to some other location, and there was my family, moved along with them. Just a few thoughts from my own experience. Bruce Fosnocht ----- Original Message ----- From: <JYoung6180@aol.com> To: <paberks@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 11:35 AM Subject: Re: [PABERKS] Naming Children Pattern? > Mine also. Almost always named for the baptismal sponsor of the same sex. > Another one that took me some time to figure out is naming the first > daughter > with a second wife after the deceased first wife--even if there was a > child > (still living) from the first marriage who also had been named for this > wife. > > Joan > ---------------------- > > Not all families followed this naming pattern. In fact, almost all of > my family named their children after the child's baptism sponsor. You > might want to try to track down your family's baptisms and check out > the sponsor names. > > > > > **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. > > (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) > ==== PABERKS Mailing List ==== > PABERKS@rootsweb.com > > To contact the List Administrator: > Rick Berkheiser, PABERKS-admin@rootsweb.com > > To visit the Berks Message Board: > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=localities.northam.usa.states.pennsylvania.counties.berks > > To visit the Berks County, PA website: > http://www.pa-roots.com/~berks/ > Hosted by Nancy Freehafer > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PABERKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Excellent points, Bruce!! Thanks for the reminder General rules are good, but beware of those exceptions!! Jack Ruple, Sr Researching: Jacob Roppel and wife Margaret Tschudy, Swiss immigrants 1767 to PA. Bruce Fosnocht <bfosnocht@charter.net> wrote : > Hi, > > I've always thought that it was the other way around, and the baptism > sponsors were chosen because they had the same name as the parents wanted to > > name their child. > > I think this could be discussed ad infinitum, just like the chicken and the > egg. > > I think if you find one set of parents using one of the established > patterns, then you could make use of that pattern as clues to go looking for > > grandparents' names, etc. I don't think it's ever a sure thing. > > But I'm all for finding original baptismal records. The sponsors' names > could provide clues about grandparents, etc. as above. They often provide > the name of a brother's wife, or provide the married name of a sister. They > certainly provide surnames of families who were closely associated with that > > set of parents, whether they were close friends, neighbors, or simply other > members of that church. That's useful, because friends, neighbors, and other > > church members often migrated together, providing clues that I refer to as > 'cluster genealogy'. Several times, I have lost track of one of my families, > > but was able to find some neighbors who moved to some other location, and > there was my family, moved along with them. > > Just a few thoughts from my own experience. > > Bruce Fosnocht > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <JYoung6180@aol.com> > To: <paberks@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 11:35 AM > Subject: Re: [PABERKS] Naming Children Pattern? > > > > Mine also. Almost always named for the baptismal sponsor of the same > sex. > > Another one that took me some time to figure out is naming the first > > daughter > > with a second wife after the deceased first wife--even if there was a > > child > > (still living) from the first marriage who also had been named for this > > > wife. > > > > Joan > > ---------------------- > > > > Not all families followed this naming pattern. In fact, almost all of > > my family named their children after the child's baptism sponsor. You > > might want to try to track down your family's baptisms and check out > > the sponsor names. > > > > > > > > > > **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel > Guides. > > > > (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) > > ==== PABERKS Mailing List ==== > > PABERKS@rootsweb.com > > > > To contact the List Administrator: > > Rick Berkheiser, PABERKS-admin@rootsweb.com > > > > To visit the Berks Message Board: > > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=localities.northam.usa.states.pennsylvania.counties.berks > > > > To visit the Berks County, PA website: > > http://www.pa-roots.com/~berks/ > > Hosted by Nancy Freehafer > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > PABERKS-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ==== PABERKS Mailing List ==== > PABERKS@rootsweb.com > > To contact the List Administrator: > Rick Berkheiser, PABERKS-admin@rootsweb.com > > To visit the Berks Message Board: > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=localities.northam.usa.states.pennsylvania.counties.berks > > To visit the Berks County, PA website: > http://www.pa-roots.com/~berks/ > Hosted by Nancy Freehafer > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PABERKS-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of > the message
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: remlinr1 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.pennsylvania.counties.berks/9877.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I have Magdalena Faust born 12 Nov 1785, died 9 May 1838, daughter of Anthony and Magdalena (Lang) Faust. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.
Roseanna- You could always subscribe and post a query on either of our Philadelphia RootsWeb lists. Take your pick--both are good: PHILLY-ROOTS@rootsweb.com or PAPHILAD@rootsweb.com . Joan ------------------------------------------------------------- Thank You so much...Do you know how I would contact anyone for Philadelphia research...looking for an A. Dietrich Schell listed for 1752 from Germany to Philly, PA? Roseanna Cornett, RN, CCM, CDMS **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
Thank You so much...Do you know how I would contact anyone for Philadelphia research...looking for an A. Dietrich Schell listed for 1752 from Germany to Philly, PA? Roseanna Cornett, RN, CCM, CDMS roseanna-cornett@insightbb.com This email is being sent at the request of the addressee in order to provide information.This is privileged and confidential communication. It is intended to be read by the person to whom it is addressed. You are being notified that if you are not this person, you are not to read this information. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender and call 859-223-2228 as soon as possible and then discard it. Please deliver to the person to whom it addresses immediately if you know that person. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: paberks-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:paberks-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of geri brennan Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 2:53 PM To: paberks@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PABERKS] Arnold Schell or Shell or Shull rev. war shell christian or christian schell, n.y. line elisha, n.y. line elisabeth, former widow, n.y. line george, n.y. line john, wf. catharine miller, n.c. line, soldier married catharine fagler in 1770 or 72 at hagerstown, md. however it was stated they were married in pa. lewis, no state marks, n.y. line shull john, n.y. line john, pa. line, soldier lived in york co., pa. peter, pa. line, wf anna dorothea, soldier was born in frederick co., md. and lived in york co, pa. at enlistment, lived there for 3 or 4 years after the rev. then moved back to md., then moved to fayette co., pa. then moved to ky, then moved it il. soldier married anna dorothea 5 march 1782 in pa. schell christian, n.y. line johannes, n.y. line war of 1812 shull henry, wf america j. tn. mil jacob, margaret, va mil jesse w. wf calisa, va mil john, wf abigail, n.y mil michael or michael shall, md. mil philip wf mary, ohio mil. philip, tn. mil reuben c. wf mary carty, married 17 nov 1813 salem co., n.j., widow lived in phila. 1851 shell daniel, wf terresy, s.c. mil george, wf sarah lee, ga mil george, wf elisabeth, va mil george w. wf mary, va mil henry, old wars isham m. wf mary, u.s. arty john, wf margaret, va mil john jr., or john schell, wf nancy, n.y. mil john (sub) wf catharine, n.y mil john e., s.c. mil lewis, wf nancy, tn. mil peter, wf eve, no pension, pa. mil peter, n.y. schell jacob p. wf elisabeth, n.y. vols john jr or as john shell, n.y Best Wishes, Geri ==== PABERKS Mailing List ==== PABERKS@rootsweb.com To contact the List Administrator: Rick Berkheiser, PABERKS-admin@rootsweb.com To visit the Berks Message Board: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=localities.northam.usa.st ates.pennsylvania.counties.berks To visit the Berks County, PA website: http://www.pa-roots.com/~berks/ Hosted by Nancy Freehafer ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PABERKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message __________ NOD32 3007 (20080407) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com
rev. war-klein cuning, robert, or robert cunning, wf. catharine cline, former widow, pa. line. soldier applied 1819 in beaver co. soldier enlisted in cumberland co. soldier married catharine geho on 23 dec 1823, soldier died 8 nov 1834, widow married next to william cline. widow applied in ohio. smith, john, pa. line, married lettice cline at the home of her father in washington co., pa. they lived in washington co., that became green co., pa. in 1819 they moved to tyler co. va. soldier and widow had a large family. soldier had served with alexander cline and 1 peter cline and his wife who were killed by indians, but the relationship to soldier wf. was not given. steele, john, or john steel or stahl, wf. mary ann 'polly", navy service and pa. line service, widow applied 1844 york co., pa. and state that she and soldier were married sometime in 1792.. she had 12 children, 24 march, 1845 one catharine kline signed p.o.a. as one of the children, and she catharine was of liverpool, perry co., pa. Best Wishes, Geri
Mine also. Almost always named for the baptismal sponsor of the same sex. Another one that took me some time to figure out is naming the first daughter with a second wife after the deceased first wife--even if there was a child (still living) from the first marriage who also had been named for this wife. Joan ---------------------- Not all families followed this naming pattern. In fact, almost all of my family named their children after the child's baptism sponsor. You might want to try to track down your family's baptisms and check out the sponsor names. **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
It was customary in earlier times to give sons the initial of the mother's maiden name; e.g. my grandfather and his brothers were Morris P, Joseph P, and David P (no period after the P) Reed. Their mother's maidern name was Price. Richard Emlin Reed Wesley Chapel, FL
My experience has been they name the child after the first name of the sponsors of the baptismal depending on male or female. I have not found these sponsors names to be in my tree. Probably close friends and neighbors and church members. The 1750 baptismals I think are friends from Germany and they came over about the same time. The next generation (1800s) seemed to name their kids after brothers and sisters. I have 4 generations of Philips, Michaels, Johns, and Daniel repeated so often and birth dates are the only way to keep them apart. Or we refer to them as the Berks Daniel and Schuylkill Philip...???? lol lol Daniel was first generation to come here and named his sons Philip and Daniel but we think his dad was George ??? but he did have a brother Philip Adam so he might have named the kids after him. Just my experience on naming. Karen
Elaine, Children that die in childhood mess up the sequence, especially if they reuse the name. Good Luck, Todd ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elaine Sharp" <bellemarco@gmail.com> To: <paberks@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 10:38 AM Subject: [PABERKS] Naming Children Pattern? > Since our Philip Kline named his first son Alfred P. (I am assuming the P. > is for Philip) b. 1839 Hamburg, Berks Co. and, thus far, I cannot find an > Alfred in Philip's presumed line, (so far still trying to find concrete > proof), is it safe to assume that the child was named after someone in his > wife's family, whose family I have yet to find? They named their 2nd son > after Philip's father Benjamin. It looks like the first daughter was > named > after her paternal grandmother, 2nd-after no one I have found in the > Kline family yet, maybe his wife's mother?, and the 3rd daughter after his > wife. > > Generally, was there a naming pattern in these families? > > Elaine > ==== PABERKS Mailing List ==== > PABERKS@rootsweb.com > > To contact the List Administrator: > Rick Berkheiser, PABERKS-admin@rootsweb.com > > To visit the Berks Message Board: > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=localities.northam.usa.states.pennsylvania.counties.berks > > To visit the Berks County, PA website: > http://www.pa-roots.com/~berks/ > Hosted by Nancy Freehafer > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PABERKS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >
I've done that and still had no luck. I am unsure of the name of the father of my 4gr grandfather (my brother had this info but when he died my sis-in-law 'lost' it ... all I know for sure is that they came from County Cork, Ire), but I know the names of the ancestors of my 4gr grandmother. Here is a bit of my tree to show you what I have. My 4gr grandmother was German and my 4gr grandfather was Irish, so we already have 2 different nationalities to pull from. 4th gr grandparents: Cyrus Barrett and Susannah Zettelmeyer 1st son: Daniel 2nd son: Cyrus ... after himself 3rd son: Samuel 4th son: Benjamin I 5th son: Jacob ...after Susannah's grandfather, Johan Jacob 6th son: John H ...after Susannah's 3rd brother, Johannes 7th son: Elijah Henry 8th son: William H 1st daughter: Mary Magdalena ...after Susannah's eldest sister 2nd daughter: Christianna (called Anna) ...after Susannah's 3rd sister (and the one born right after her) and possibly her mother Christina 3rd daughter: Sally or Sarah Ann ...have seen both names and since Sally was commonly used for Sarah it makes sense. (2 of her sons are Cyrus and Wilson) 4th daughter: Mary Ann ...Cyrus has a niece also named Mary so there is a possibility that it comes from his family although Mary is a very common name. Here are the details of my Susannah's family: Father: George Adam Mother: Christina Brothers: George Michael, Henry (possibly Johan Henry), Johannes, Martin (possibly George Martin), George Adam (called Adam). Sisters: Maria Magdalena, Catharina, (Susannah is here), Christianna, Elizabeth. Many of Cyrus and Susannah's offspring used the names Daniel, Samuel, Cyrus, William and Benjamin. It seems that a lot of the firstborn sons are Daniel. Because of the predominance of Daniel and that it is the name of Cyrus' firstborn son and is not found in Susannah's family I wonder if it is not the name of his father. ?? About the 3rd generation Hiram/Airam becomes a predominant name in the Barretts. I have studied these names for a long time and still cannot "crack the code" so to speak. Now on Cyrus' side I only know of a brother Elias and some of his children's names: Elias and Elizabeth (Betsy nee Herbst) Barrett. Betsy's mother was Catharina and her father was Heinrich. 1st and only son: No name found but... there is a Wilson Barrett living next to Elias in the 1860 census, so I speculate that this is a possiblity. 1st daughter: Elizabeth ...after Betsy, but she lived to adulthood so I am confused as to why her name was re-used. 2nd daughter: Mary 3rd daughter: Susannah 4th daughter: Eliza ...re-used and after Betsy 5th daughter: Margaret 6th daughter: Harriet 7th daughter: Catherine ...after Betsy's mother. Catherine's second son is Samuel, a name found a lot in the Barrett line. They also pull names from her husband's side which is also Susannah's side, as Susannah's sister Christianna (nee Zettelmeyer) married Catherine's husband, Daniel's father, also named Daniel Huffman. The two families all moved to Ohio at the same time or a very short time later. Now that I have confused you I will see what anyone thinks of the naming patterns in my family tree. Sande ** Not all families followed this naming pattern. In fact, almost all of my family named their children after the child's baptism sponsor. You might want to try to track down your family's baptisms and check out the sponsor names. ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
Elaine- Try this one: St Michael's Church (Lutheran) I think it was founded around 1790 On Apr 7, 2008, at 9:32 AM, Elaine Sharp wrote: > Thank you all for naming information. A new question as a result of > this. > If Alfred Kline/Cline was b. September 18, 1839 in Hamburg, Berks > County, > what church would he have likely been baptized in (I think they were > Lutheran?). > > Elaine > ==== PABERKS Mailing List ==== > PABERKS@rootsweb.com > > To contact the List Administrator: > Rick Berkheiser, PABERKS-admin@rootsweb.com > > To visit the Berks Message Board: > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=localities.northam.usa.states.pennsylvania.counties.berks > > To visit the Berks County, PA website: > http://www.pa-roots.com/~berks/ > Hosted by Nancy Freehafer > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PABERKS-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message
Thank you all for naming information. A new question as a result of this. If Alfred Kline/Cline was b. September 18, 1839 in Hamburg, Berks County, what church would he have likely been baptized in (I think they were Lutheran?). Elaine
Not all families followed this naming pattern. In fact, almost all of my family named their children after the child's baptism sponsor. You might want to try to track down your family's baptisms and check out the sponsor names. On Apr 7, 2008, at 9:15 AM, Sande wrote: > Anytime... you are welcome. I hope that it helps you make sense of > it all. I have a family that is German in origin and the naming > pattern is so out of whack...I have not been able to figure it out. > > Sande > ** > Thank you, Sande, for the http://www.kerchner.com/germname.htm very > interesting and comprehensive naming pattern site address. I will > study it > carefully to see if it fits the naming process in this Kline family. > > Elaine > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of > Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com > ==== PABERKS Mailing List ==== > PABERKS@rootsweb.com > > To contact the List Administrator: > Rick Berkheiser, PABERKS-admin@rootsweb.com > > To visit the Berks Message Board: > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=localities.northam.usa.states.pennsylvania.counties.berks > > To visit the Berks County, PA website: > http://www.pa-roots.com/~berks/ > Hosted by Nancy Freehafer > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PABERKS-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message
Anytime... you are welcome. I hope that it helps you make sense of it all. I have a family that is German in origin and the naming pattern is so out of whack...I have not been able to figure it out. Sande ** Thank you, Sande, for the http://www.kerchner.com/germname.htm very interesting and comprehensive naming pattern site address. I will study it carefully to see if it fits the naming process in this Kline family. Elaine ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
Thank you, Sande, for the http://www.kerchner.com/germname.htm very interesting and comprehensive naming pattern site address. I will study it carefully to see if it fits the naming process in this Kline family. Elaine
Here is a site that goes indepth about the German naming patterns of those Germans who make Pennsylvania home: http://www.kerchner.com/germname.htm I hope this helps you. I also have found some Kline, as neighbors and witnesses of births, etc, of my family line. Sande (researching Zettelmeyer, Barrett, Lambert, Loebrich, Crary, Waltz....etc) Elaine asked: Generally, was there a naming pattern in these families? ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
Since our Philip Kline named his first son Alfred P. (I am assuming the P. is for Philip) b. 1839 Hamburg, Berks Co. and, thus far, I cannot find an Alfred in Philip's presumed line, (so far still trying to find concrete proof), is it safe to assume that the child was named after someone in his wife's family, whose family I have yet to find? They named their 2nd son after Philip's father Benjamin. It looks like the first daughter was named after her paternal grandmother, 2nd-after no one I have found in the Kline family yet, maybe his wife's mother?, and the 3rd daughter after his wife. Generally, was there a naming pattern in these families? Elaine
Nancy, Thank you for updating the Sebastian Zimmerman Estate record. Leon F. Borst ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nancy J. Freehafer" <freehafer@alltel.net> To: <PABERKS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 10:44 AM Subject: [PABERKS] Berks Co. PAGenWeb Site Update April 6, 2008 >I made the following updates to the Berks co. site this week > (http://www.pa-roots.com/~berks/). > All items are listed on the What's New page: > > * Added tombstone inscriptions for Hains Church Cemetery, Lower > Heidelberg Township > * Added two news clippings (about the explosion and fire at Carver's > Bakery in Boyertown) from the Boyertown Democrat (February 8, 1902 and > February 15, 1902) > * Corrected the Sebastian Zimmerman estate record > * Updated the Surname Register > * Added some obituaries > > Nancy J. Freehafer