Marian, I am having the same difficulty -- my Gaertner's, Kirschler's attended the Oak Grove Lutheran Church however, this was surely not their first church since the Gaertner's, Metz's (another line not at Oak Grove apparently) at least have been in Beaver Co, PA since at least the 1830's if not sooner. They had always been Lutheran according to one account, so I am glad you asked the question! Cindy > Thanks for the information, but I am wanting to find records earlier > than that for my Havice/Hebeisen family. There are some records at > Zelianople in the edge of Butler County PA for some of the Havice > children, but the older ones were born before this particular church was > organized.