I have a large database of Abraham John Zeigler, one of 3 brothers who came from Northampton Co, PA about 1802 (father died, George Philip Zeigler). These Zeiglers owned large tracts of land (farms) in/around Middlesex/North Middleton Twp. They attended the First Lutheran Church in Carlisle. The church still has their old records of baptisms, marriages, etc. My Abraham married Elizabeth Hoerner; they are on the 1850 census in (I believe) Middlesex Twp., Cumberland Co, PA. Most of this family of Zeiglers stayed in Cumberland Co. And as they aged and sold off the farms, lived in/around Carlisle. Hope this helps, I don't have my FTM database here at work, but can email a ged-com, to anyone who needs it. Debbie Drake Hogue Sandston, VA At 12:15 PM 3/13/2003 +0100, E. J. Richards wrote: >The problems with my Zieglers are numerous: the descendants of Hans Georg >Ziegler in Cumberland Co. have been well documented by Allen Ziegler. But >there was also a Peter Ziegler who owned a mill somewhere in Cumberland Co. >who was not related to Hans Georg Ziegler. I don't know if this Peter >Ziegler is related to my Zieglers or not. > >My Zieglers may have only been interlopers in Cumberland County and have >come from a nearby county. I don't know. > >My Abram Ziegler married a woman named Elizabeth Ross. I checked the IGI >for an Elizabeth Ross, and there was a baptismal record from 4 June 1820, >from the Upper Bermudian Church, Manchester Twp., Adams Co. Hmm. Parents' >names: Joseph and Sarah. So I checked the 1840 and 1850 censuses for >Cumberland County to see if I could find Joseph and Sarah, and they (or >let's say, a Joesph and family) show up in South Middleton Twp., Cumberland >Co. in 1840 and then Joseph and Sarah in 1850 in Dickinson Twp., Cumberland >Co. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but... if the Joseph Ross >family was in Dickinson Twp., Cumberland Co., maybe Abram Ziegler was >somewhere in Dickinson Twp. in 1840 as well. So I checked the 1840 census >for Zieglers and found only one in Dickinson Twp.: one "Samuel Zigler" is >listed in the 1840 census. Of course the assumption that the two families >both inhabited the same township can be questioned, but as a working >assumption, it is helpful. > >If this Samuel Zigler is identical to the Samuel Zeigler in the 1880 census, >then all bets are off. His will names two sons and they have been >identified. > >I joke that my Zieglers were orthographically challenged, but anybody >researching the Ziegler family knows that the spelling "Zeigler" is more >common in the US. At least this spelling shows that the people were >pronuncing the name "zeegler" which is not so far from the German >"tseegler". My ancestors though seem to have become monolingual >English-speakers (influence of Scots spouses? or, to make another joke, >Scots spice?) earlier than most other Pennsylvania Dutch. I say this >because whenever they were asked their names in 1850, they seem to have >responded to the questioner by saying roughly "sigler" (Siglar is how the >name appears, thanks again Abby for finding it) rather than the German >pronunciation "tseegler". Not until the 1880 census does the correct >spelling for my ancestors show up. > >Next there is the problem of the relationship between Evangelical Lutheran >and German Reformed churches in the Pennsylvania Dutch area. I'm a beginner >here. I know that some church buildings were used by two separate >congregations. In Germany the Prussian government forced the two churches >to unite, but even today reformed congregations tend to keep to themselves. >Germans tell me in fact that until the 1950s the relationship between the >two groups of believers was actually quite strained. > >OK, here's the problem. I can't find or rather have not yet found the >baptismal records for my Zieglers, and the great researcher Zieglers in >Cumberland County, Allen Ziegler, can't connect my Zieglers to the other >Zieglers in Cumberland County, who were indeed all good Lutherans. In fact, >just to complicate the issue, there were two Thomas Jefferson Zieglers, and >the other one was born about a year after my great-grandfather, also named >Thomas Jefferson Ziegler, also in Cumberland Co. His father though appears >to have married a Mennonite, which was also an unusual situation, and the >family eventually moved on to Illinois. > >So, I have a problem -- finding baptismal and marriage records for Abram >Ziegler -- which I need help with. In Beers, vol. 2, p. 1894, my >great-great-grandfather is named as Abraham Zigler [sic], "a native of >Cumberland Co., Pennsylvania." Otherwise, I have no proof he was born in >Cumberland Co. on 2 Sept 1820. > >My Thomas Jefferson Ziegler enlisted in September 1863 in Carlisle, fought >and was badly wounded at the Battle of the Wilderness in May 1864. He was >in the hospital until December 1, 1864. When he was released, according to >his Pension file, he briefly visited a Joseph and David Ziegler in >Gettysburg, before returning home to Claysville, in Washington Co. I don't >know -- though I suspect -- that this was an uncle and cousin. > >So that is the cussed situation I find myself in. Knowing that the family >was devoutly Presbyterian complicates the issue of course. (I have a >similar problem with my Richards ancestors -- who came from Prince Edward >Island, Canada -- and were also Presbyterian, and this although the name >Richards is Cornish, and one would expect the family to be Methodist, >Anglican or Baptist, but not Presbyterian.) > >Anyway, having said all of this, I'd be grateful for any help anybody out >there can give me. I've made a lot of progress thanks to the help of some >very selfless and very generous kind souls out there, and I want to thank >them all. This is the one family line which most influenced my >upbringing -- so I apologize if my queries have, well, a slightly obsessive >character. > >Thanks in advance, >Jeff Richards >Muenster, Germany > >----- Original Message ----- >From: <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 11:31 PM >Subject: [PACUMBER] ZEIGLER Clan > > > > There surely are Zeigler marriages to Scot-Irish immigrants, but you will > > find that practically all ZEIGLERs are German and members of the Lutheran > > Church, especially those that lived in early Cumberland County. > > > > The Zeigler Church records can be found on the Internet by going to <A >HREF="www.google.com"> > > www.google.com</A> and then typing in: "zeigler church" +Cumberland >Co., > > PA > > > > You might also try contacting a local Zeigler genealogist: > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > ==== PACUMBER Mailing List ==== > > Visit the USGenWeb PA Archives page: > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/pa/pafiles.htm > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, >go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > >==== PAADAMS Mailing List ==== >Adams Co. PA GenWeb URL: http://www.rootsweb.com/~paadams/adams.htm > >============================== >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, >go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237