I don't know about you all, but I like the Amish. When I saw that movie "Witness" with Harrison Ford, I wanted to go out and join a "barn raising"! Their simple way of life is appealing. Also, I'm sure there must be a branch of genealogy called "Amish genealogy" or something. >From: "Thomas E. Lassek" <[email protected]> >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [PITTSBURGH] Re: Ann and Thomas...RE surnames...... >Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 06:31:38 -0500 > >" . . . . . I am not sure of our origination , but believe it to be Pa >Deutche...or German...I found it in Lancaster, Pa in the 1800s.. >Jane" > >- - - - - - - - - - > >Well, diligence in research will eventually get to your roots. Maddening at >times isn't it ?? Interesting caption concerning Lancaster County >Pennsylvania. I remember driving through there in my younger years and >ending up in a plowed field one night when I swerved off the highway to >avoid a buggy and horse. The Amish gentleman had absolutely no compassion >for me at all when I told him what he could do with his horse and buggy. > >I know little about their heritage, however, it was my impression that >their ethnicity centered around the Dutch, or those from Holland, as >opposed to German. I may have to be corrected here. I thought the >"Pennsylvania Dutch" were actually from Holland. Can anyone else shed light >on this ?? > >Tom Lassek >Eufaula Alabama > > > >==== PA-PITTSBURGH Mailing List ==== >How to unsubscribe. Send a message to:[email protected] >that contains ONLY the word, 'unsubscribe' in the text area. > >============================== >Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration >Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

--=======7825899======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-E525775; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ethel, At this point, I'm not sure that Mona wants him. Murphy truly has made a name for himself albeit not the one he visioned. If you think that you'd be held for assault and battery, imagine the feelings of those of us who do live in Pgh. Al At 10:34 AM 8/19/2004, you wrote: >No Al! I don't want your mayor I would be held for assault and battery. I >live in Georgia but Pittsburgh is my home town; all the relatives are there. >I go back at least once a year for a month and catch up with the news >everyday on the Post. I can't believe what he has done to Pittsburgh. > >Ethel --=======7825899======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-E525775 Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 8/16/2004 --=======7825899=======--

--=======6A1912C3======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-E525775; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ginnie, You are one-up on me, gal. I once met Mac at the Greentree LDS. I don't know how old he is but I think that Greentree Hill just might be a tad younger than Mac! Mac and Coal Hill go waaaaaaay back! Al At 09:04 AM 8/19/2004, you wrote: >Hi Al, I knew there was something wrong when Mac quit correcting people. >I know how old he is and trust me, he was well qualified to get SS 20 years >ago.i-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 8/16/2004 --=======6A1912C3======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-E525775 Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 8/16/2004 --=======6A1912C3=======--

Susan: My ancestors - Scot Presbyterians, Surname LOW, emigrated to Pennsysylvania in the early 1700s; do you have any LINKS to more information? Thanks, in advance, Wally Lowe Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan McFeatters" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:40 PM Subject: Re: [PITTSBURGH] Re: Ann and Thomas...RE surnames...... > And to continue on with Pennsylvania history: > > In the early settling of the colony, the English, primarily Quakers, > established themselves in the eastern part of Pennsylvania, primarily > in Philadelphia. The Germans came in several waves and settled outside > of Philadelphia (Germantown) and to the west. The Scotch-Irish also > came in waves and settled further west, seen by the Quaker > powers-that-be as a convenient buffer between the colony and the > Indians, the Scotch-Irish having no compunction about fighting. The > Scotch-Irish were lowland Scots who had migrated to Ulster (now > Northern Ireland) in the 17th century. Due to one revolt or another, > there were not many Irish left in Ulster, thanks to the England's > policy of clearing out the lands and bringing in other settlers. When > the Scotch-Irish started migrating to Pennsylvania in the early 1700s, > they were really a breed apart -- neither Irish (they brought their > Presbyterian faith to Ireland with them which later caused problems > when England wanted them to pledge loyalty to the Anglican faith) but > neither fully Scots after their sojourn in Ireland. One of their most > fervent wishes in coming to America was to be left alone which helped > make them ideal frontiersmen and women. (Part of the attraction of > going to Ulster was to get away from the Highlanders who tore through > their lands to fight the English across the border and English troops > who did the same going north after the Highlanders.) As more and more > of western Pennsylvania was purchased from the Indians, they continued > moving west (as well as south down the Shenandoah Valley to North > Carolina and eastern Tennessee). The Amish and Mennonite Germans who > became known as the Pennsylvania Dutch largely stayed around York and > Lancaster, but other Germans moved west into the areas the Scotch-Irish > vacated, establishing great breweries such as Yuenglings all across the > state. (I have a theory that history has covered up the real reason Jeb > Stuart was late getting to Gettysburg -- the south was sorely lacking > in good beer and Stuart had heard about this fabulous brewery in > Pottsville and on the map it didn't look that far away ...) > > It's probably a stretch to say they shared a language with the English, > at least initially. The Philadelphians were horrified by their dress > and manners and glad to see them head out to the frontier. Since they > had no allegiances to the old country and no particular love for the > English, there was never any doubt where their loyalties lay during the > 1770s. They provided Washington's army with fierce fighters and skilled > marksmen. They did retain their Scottish respect for education and > Presbyterian faith and left a trail of schools and churches on their > way west. > > More than you wanted to know, eh? > > > ==== PA-PITTSBURGH Mailing List ==== > How to unsubscribe. Send a message to:[email protected] that contains ONLY the word, 'unsubscribe' in the text area. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

No Al! I don't want your mayor I would be held for assault and battery. I live in Georgia but Pittsburgh is my home town; all the relatives are there. I go back at least once a year for a month and catch up with the news everyday on the Post. I can't believe what he has done to Pittsburgh. Ethel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Lenkner" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 1:09 AM Subject: Re: [PITTSBURGH] letter > --=======649F1A1A======= > Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-45375450; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Ethel, > > Nah! First he wants to build a new hotel for the convention center and > then, thanks to his chubby buddy in Harrisburg, maybe, just maybe, take > care of the Penguins. After all, there are at least 10,000 people in this > metropolis who go to Penguin games.......... IF they are winning! > > I don't know whether anyone pays attention to what goes on. The URA is > helping the African American community to build an Heritage or Culteral > Center downtown which is a joke for a dozen reasons. They're still paying > for 3 Rivers Stadium which doesn't exist anymore. The URA and the > supposedly the Feds are building new houses all over the city for people > who can't afford to buy their own shacks. And there was something in the > paper this week of another goofy subsidy job by the URA. And then I got > that idiot who is supposed to be MY councilman but only thinks of > Brookline..... where he lives. There is going to be a re-make of Brookline > Blvd to the tune of $10 million. There is nothing wrong with Brookline > Blvd and the road is in excellent shape which is more than I can say for a > lot of roads in the city. > > And while I'm at it, how about the Port Authority of Allegheny County. I > thought that their mission, when they forced all of those transportation > companies out of business, was to provide a good transportation system at a > reasonable cost. My impression of PAT is that they are an employment > agency, trying to spend as much as possible for the least possible > gain. Whomever came up with the idea to tunnel under the Allegheny, and > whomever approved it in Washington, should be taken to the woods and shot! > > If there is a fire in the subway as it is now, there are several large > emergency vents throughout the downtown area. And I do mean large. I > haven't seen the plans for the extension but I pray that there is never a > fire in the section under the river. Without a good ventilation system, > somebody is going to die. > > By your sentence, it appears that you don't live in the city. Ethel, if > you think he's wonderful (and even if you don't), you can have him! He's > all yours! > > Al > > > > At 09:18 PM 8/18/2004, you wrote: > > >Your wonderful mayor probably wants to build another new stadium; after they > >are a couple years old now. > > > >Ethel > > --=======649F1A1A======= > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-45375450 > Content-Disposition: inline > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 8/16/2004 > > --=======649F1A1A=======-- > > > > ==== PA-PITTSBURGH Mailing List ==== > If you need to contact the listowner, send an email to Sue* at: > [email protected] > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Hi Al, I knew there was something wrong when Mac quit correcting people. I know how old he is and trust me, he was well qualified to get SS 20 years ago.

Bob, A friend of mine lives in Ft Myers and the things she's been telling me have been horrific. They just got their power back on a couple of hours ago but they were fortunate enough to have a generator to keep necessary appliances running and a light or two. Surprisingly, her internet service didn't go down and she was able to send me a couple quick emails to let me know that she was ok. My step-mother lives in Springhill and I had a heck of a time getting through to her on the phone because of the busy circuits. She said that the piles of debris along the roads was so high on both sides that it was like going through a tunnel. It was wise of you to go up to Tampa to weather out the hurricane and I'm happy to hear that your house didn't sustain any damages other than the fallen trees. I'm sure it's going to take a very long time with the clean up efforts and an ordeal that won't soon be forgotten. No, I'm not that Sue, I'm the 'other one,' LOL. Take care, Sue* -----Original Message----- Hi Sue: Thanks for asking. I like a little excitement in my life but the prospects of Hurricane Charley was a little too much excitement for me. I like living. I made arrangements to be in Tampa when the storm hit. So, I am fine. In regard to the aftermath: My nights of sitting in the dark without any lights, TV, radio, telephone, cell phone, are over. Power is back on - camne back on today. Now I can charge my cell phone. Home telephone also back on. But still no TV so I don't know what is happening in the world. No damage to my home here in GULF HARBOUR - thank GOD. We were supposed to get an 18 foot surge of water along with 145 mile an hour wind but got no water - only wind - but something less than 145 miles an hour. Fort Myers Beach (five miles South of here) and the Barrier Islands (Sanibel and Captiva on the other side of the river from Fort Myers) got it all. Captiva took a direct hit and Hurricane Charley then wiped out Pine Island and slammed into Port Charlotte, went inland and across the state to Orlando. Only lost one building on my numerous rental properties but the amount of trees that were knocked down is unbelievable. Will take me forever to cut them up. They let people living on Fort Myers Beach back on the island today. There is no beach anymore. It's all gone and I mean ALL. For example, the Gulf of Mexico now comes up to the Pier Restraurant. there is no beach. As for the bridge that connects Sanibel Island to Captiva, it now goes over sand. Hurricane Charley joined the two islands. It did just the opposite to Upper Captiva Island - it split it in two. I understand there are now two islands there instead of one. You probably have seen on national TV and already know about Port Charolette and Punta Gorda - more than I know sitting here without TV. Is this Sue from up around Perrysville Avenue? Bob Kircher, Fort Myers In a message dated 8/19/2004 2:50:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Bob, How are you doing down there, after the hurricane? Sue* --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.693 / Virus Database: 454 - Release Date: 5/31/2004

Hi Sue: Thanks for asking. I like a little excitement in my life but the prospects of Hurricane Charley was a little too much excitement for me. I like living. I made arrangements to be in Tampa when the storm hit. So, I am fine. In regard to the aftermath: My nights of sitting in the dark without any lights, TV, radio, telephone, cell phone, are over. Power is back on - camne back on today. Now I can charge my cell phone. Home telephone also back on. But still no TV so I don't know what is happening in the world. No damage to my home here in GULF HARBOUR - thank GOD. We were supposed to get an 18 foot surge of water along with 145 mile an hour wind but got no water - only wind - but something less than 145 miles an hour. Fort Myers Beach (five miles South of here) and the Barrier Islands (Sanibel and Captiva on the other side of the river from Fort Myers) got it all. Captiva took a direct hit and Hurricane Charley then wiped out Pine Island and slammed into Port Charlotte, went inland and across the state to Orlando. Only lost one building on my numerous rental properties but the amount of trees that were knocked down is unbelievable. Will take me forever to cut them up. They let people living on Fort Myers Beach back on the island today. There is no beach anymore. It's all gone and I mean ALL. For example, the Gulf of Mexico now comes up to the Pier Restraurant. there is no beach. As for the bridge that connects Sanibel Island to Captiva, it now goes over sand. Hurricane Charley joined the two islands. It did just the opposite to Upper Captiva Island - it split it in two. I understand there are now two islands there instead of one. You probably have seen on national TV and already know about Port Charolette and Punta Gorda - more than I know sitting here without TV. Is this Sue from up around Perrysville Avenue? Bob Kircher, Fort Myers In a message dated 8/19/2004 2:50:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Bob, How are you doing down there, after the hurricane? Sue* -----Original Message----- The Pennsylvaina Dutch are not Dutch. They are of German heritage. Click here to get the scoop: _http://www.kerchner.com/padutch.htm_ (http://www.kerchner.com/padutch.htm) Be sure to give the music time to load. Bob Kircher, Fort Myers, Florida (Formerly of Pittsburgh's North Side) [email protected] The KIRCHER Family Archives Adminstrator of the [email protected] website The KIRCHER DNA Project [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ---------------- In a message dated 8/19/2004 12:29:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: My great-great grandfather was a German immigrant who considered himself as, PA Dutch. The explanation that he passed down was that upon immigration when asked what his country of origin was, he replied, Deutschland. The records keepers typically wrote down, Dutch-land, not knowing that Deutschland was Germany. My German ancestors settled in Northumberland and Snyder Counties in eastern PA. Sue* -----Original Message----- There is a difference between the Amish and the Pennsylvania Dutch -- and even after I share with you, others will disagree with me. But here goes . . . I live in York County, PA which borders Lancaster County, PA on the west (the Susquehanna River divides the 2 counties). Lancaster County is in south-central PA. At one time it was part of Mongtomery County, PA. As settlers moved west, more and more counties were created out of the original counties where Philadelphia and other cities began in PA.. The Amish are different from the Pennsylvania Dutch. Since William Penn opened Penns Woods for settlement by _anyone,_ there has always been a mix of traditions/peoples. The Amish are just one group of people who settled here. They have tried to remain separate from the rest of us "English" and that is why they can still be picked out from the rest of us. Their clothing, schooling, work, and religious practices are unique to them. They do not attend public school. They do not have churches - worship in private homes. Their activities are dictated by the farm calendar and what the church bishops permit. Weddings are held in the late fall. Courtships are brief. Clothing is plain with no adornment (no buttons, no designs - all material used is plain). They do purchase some things in modern stores (Wal-Mart), such as diapers, cereal. There were large groups of people from Germany, Palatine, Scotland, Ireland, who settled in Pennsylvania. The Scots, Irish, and English shared a langauge so they "melted" together quicker and more easily. The Germans and Amish spoke German, and we "English" over the years, have combined them in our thinking as both groups as Pennsylvania Dutch. They may have come from the same general geographic area and used the same native tongue, but they have remained separate over the centuries. They shared a language but even now the Amish have their own "Dutch" they speak, changed and localized over the centuries. Want to know more? Bekah Mellnger Wrightsville, PA

Bob, How are you doing down there, after the hurricane? Sue* -----Original Message----- The Pennsylvaina Dutch are not Dutch. They are of German heritage. Click here to get the scoop: _http://www.kerchner.com/padutch.htm_ (http://www.kerchner.com/padutch.htm) Be sure to give the music time to load. Bob Kircher, Fort Myers, Florida (Formerly of Pittsburgh's North Side) [email protected] The KIRCHER Family Archives Adminstrator of the [email protected] website The KIRCHER DNA Project [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ---------------- In a message dated 8/19/2004 12:29:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: My great-great grandfather was a German immigrant who considered himself as, PA Dutch. The explanation that he passed down was that upon immigration when asked what his country of origin was, he replied, Deutschland. The records keepers typically wrote down, Dutch-land, not knowing that Deutschland was Germany. My German ancestors settled in Northumberland and Snyder Counties in eastern PA. Sue* -----Original Message----- There is a difference between the Amish and the Pennsylvania Dutch -- and even after I share with you, others will disagree with me. But here goes . . . I live in York County, PA which borders Lancaster County, PA on the west (the Susquehanna River divides the 2 counties). Lancaster County is in south-central PA. At one time it was part of Mongtomery County, PA. As settlers moved west, more and more counties were created out of the original counties where Philadelphia and other cities began in PA.. The Amish are different from the Pennsylvania Dutch. Since William Penn opened Penns Woods for settlement by _anyone,_ there has always been a mix of traditions/peoples. The Amish are just one group of people who settled here. They have tried to remain separate from the rest of us "English" and that is why they can still be picked out from the rest of us. Their clothing, schooling, work, and religious practices are unique to them. They do not attend public school. They do not have churches - worship in private homes. Their activities are dictated by the farm calendar and what the church bishops permit. Weddings are held in the late fall. Courtships are brief. Clothing is plain with no adornment (no buttons, no designs - all material used is plain). They do purchase some things in modern stores (Wal-Mart), such as diapers, cereal. There were large groups of people from Germany, Palatine, Scotland, Ireland, who settled in Pennsylvania. The Scots, Irish, and English shared a langauge so they "melted" together quicker and more easily. The Germans and Amish spoke German, and we "English" over the years, have combined them in our thinking as both groups as Pennsylvania Dutch. They may have come from the same general geographic area and used the same native tongue, but they have remained separate over the centuries. They shared a language but even now the Amish have their own "Dutch" they speak, changed and localized over the centuries. Want to know more? Bekah Mellnger Wrightsville, PA ==== PA-PITTSBURGH Mailing List ==== How to unsubscribe. Send a message to:[email protected] that contains ONLY the word, 'unsubscribe' in the text area. ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.693 / Virus Database: 454 - Release Date: 5/31/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.693 / Virus Database: 454 - Release Date: 5/31/2004

The Pennsylvaina Dutch are not Dutch. They are of German heritage. Click here to get the scoop: _http://www.kerchner.com/padutch.htm_ (http://www.kerchner.com/padutch.htm) Be sure to give the music time to load. Bob Kircher, Fort Myers, Florida (Formerly of Pittsburgh's North Side) [email protected] The KIRCHER Family Archives Adminstrator of the [email protected] website The KIRCHER DNA Project [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------- In a message dated 8/19/2004 12:29:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: My great-great grandfather was a German immigrant who considered himself as, PA Dutch. The explanation that he passed down was that upon immigration when asked what his country of origin was, he replied, Deutschland. The records keepers typically wrote down, Dutch-land, not knowing that Deutschland was Germany. My German ancestors settled in Northumberland and Snyder Counties in eastern PA. Sue* -----Original Message----- There is a difference between the Amish and the Pennsylvania Dutch -- and even after I share with you, others will disagree with me. But here goes . . . I live in York County, PA which borders Lancaster County, PA on the west (the Susquehanna River divides the 2 counties). Lancaster County is in south-central PA. At one time it was part of Mongtomery County, PA. As settlers moved west, more and more counties were created out of the original counties where Philadelphia and other cities began in PA.. The Amish are different from the Pennsylvania Dutch. Since William Penn opened Penns Woods for settlement by _anyone,_ there has always been a mix of traditions/peoples. The Amish are just one group of people who settled here. They have tried to remain separate from the rest of us "English" and that is why they can still be picked out from the rest of us. Their clothing, schooling, work, and religious practices are unique to them. They do not attend public school. They do not have churches - worship in private homes. Their activities are dictated by the farm calendar and what the church bishops permit. Weddings are held in the late fall. Courtships are brief. Clothing is plain with no adornment (no buttons, no designs - all material used is plain). They do purchase some things in modern stores (Wal-Mart), such as diapers, cereal. There were large groups of people from Germany, Palatine, Scotland, Ireland, who settled in Pennsylvania. The Scots, Irish, and English shared a langauge so they "melted" together quicker and more easily. The Germans and Amish spoke German, and we "English" over the years, have combined them in our thinking as both groups as Pennsylvania Dutch. They may have come from the same general geographic area and used the same native tongue, but they have remained separate over the centuries. They shared a language but even now the Amish have their own "Dutch" they speak, changed and localized over the centuries. Want to know more? Bekah Mellnger Wrightsville, PA

--=======6FD52C7======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-45375450; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mac was arrested for lying about his age 20 years ago, saying that he was eligible for Social Security! He should be getting free soon. He's been doing "community service" at the LDS Library in Greentree. Al At 09:56 PM 8/18/2004, you wrote: >Ginnie >I haven't been on Pa. list for a while. Resubed a while ago. Thanks for >the info about the lampshades. I got just what I wanted at Penny's. Mac >used to be off and on. He probably got busy. >Barb --=======6FD52C7======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-45375450 Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 8/16/2004 --=======6FD52C7=======--

--=======649F1A1A======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-45375450; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ethel, Nah! First he wants to build a new hotel for the convention center and then, thanks to his chubby buddy in Harrisburg, maybe, just maybe, take care of the Penguins. After all, there are at least 10,000 people in this metropolis who go to Penguin games.......... IF they are winning! I don't know whether anyone pays attention to what goes on. The URA is helping the African American community to build an Heritage or Culteral Center downtown which is a joke for a dozen reasons. They're still paying for 3 Rivers Stadium which doesn't exist anymore. The URA and the supposedly the Feds are building new houses all over the city for people who can't afford to buy their own shacks. And there was something in the paper this week of another goofy subsidy job by the URA. And then I got that idiot who is supposed to be MY councilman but only thinks of Brookline..... where he lives. There is going to be a re-make of Brookline Blvd to the tune of $10 million. There is nothing wrong with Brookline Blvd and the road is in excellent shape which is more than I can say for a lot of roads in the city. And while I'm at it, how about the Port Authority of Allegheny County. I thought that their mission, when they forced all of those transportation companies out of business, was to provide a good transportation system at a reasonable cost. My impression of PAT is that they are an employment agency, trying to spend as much as possible for the least possible gain. Whomever came up with the idea to tunnel under the Allegheny, and whomever approved it in Washington, should be taken to the woods and shot! If there is a fire in the subway as it is now, there are several large emergency vents throughout the downtown area. And I do mean large. I haven't seen the plans for the extension but I pray that there is never a fire in the section under the river. Without a good ventilation system, somebody is going to die. By your sentence, it appears that you don't live in the city. Ethel, if you think he's wonderful (and even if you don't), you can have him! He's all yours! Al At 09:18 PM 8/18/2004, you wrote: >Your wonderful mayor probably wants to build another new stadium; after they >are a couple years old now. > >Ethel --=======649F1A1A======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-45375450 Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 8/16/2004 --=======649F1A1A=======--

My great-great grandfather was a German immigrant who considered himself as, PA Dutch. The explanation that he passed down was that upon immigration when asked what his country of origin was, he replied, Deutschland. The records keepers typically wrote down, Dutch-land, not knowing that Deutschland was Germany. My German ancestors settled in Northumberland and Snyder Counties in eastern PA. Sue* -----Original Message----- There is a difference between the Amish and the Pennsylvania Dutch -- and even after I share with you, others will disagree with me. But here goes . . . I live in York County, PA which borders Lancaster County, PA on the west (the Susquehanna River divides the 2 counties). Lancaster County is in south-central PA. At one time it was part of Mongtomery County, PA. As settlers moved west, more and more counties were created out of the original counties where Philadelphia and other cities began in PA.. The Amish are different from the Pennsylvania Dutch. Since William Penn opened Penns Woods for settlement by _anyone,_ there has always been a mix of traditions/peoples. The Amish are just one group of people who settled here. They have tried to remain separate from the rest of us "English" and that is why they can still be picked out from the rest of us. Their clothing, schooling, work, and religious practices are unique to them. They do not attend public school. They do not have churches - worship in private homes. Their activities are dictated by the farm calendar and what the church bishops permit. Weddings are held in the late fall. Courtships are brief. Clothing is plain with no adornment (no buttons, no designs - all material used is plain). They do purchase some things in modern stores (Wal-Mart), such as diapers, cereal. There were large groups of people from Germany, Palatine, Scotland, Ireland, who settled in Pennsylvania. The Scots, Irish, and English shared a langauge so they "melted" together quicker and more easily. The Germans and Amish spoke German, and we "English" over the years, have combined them in our thinking as both groups as Pennsylvania Dutch. They may have come from the same general geographic area and used the same native tongue, but they have remained separate over the centuries. They shared a language but even now the Amish have their own "Dutch" they speak, changed and localized over the centuries. Want to know more? Bekah Mellnger Wrightsville, PA --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.693 / Virus Database: 454 - Release Date: 5/31/2004

Karen ... Thank you for the nice card you sent reference KLISAVAGE. I wish you success in your quest to find your roots. Tom Lassek Eufaula Alabama

"Tom, Would you know where the name of O'Kruta might fit into the Polish scene? Any background appreciated? Cathy" - - - - - - - - - - Hello Cathy ... In the Polish way, the surname should be spelled as "Okruta". OKRUT- Formed from a feature, from the Polish root word "okrutny" which means "cruel, savage". I see there were about 374 OKRUTA's residing in Poland as of about 1990. Other surname variants listed as being formed from this root word are Okrutnik and Okrutny. There is not suffix since the variant and the root are virtually the same - the letter "y" in the root "okrutny" was simply changed to the letter "a" to form and designate the surname. At the time of surname formation, your ancestor, Pan Okruta had a feature which others designated as "cruel, savage". Perhaps he had a scar on his face obtained during a battle where he was described as cruel and or savage during the fighting by the enemy. Perhaps Mr. Okruta caught someone stealing his vegetables at night and he "thrashed" the thief within an inch of his life and during the scuffle he incurred a large slash on his arm which may cause others to consider his resp! onse to the theft cruel and savage. Lot's of possible variables ... however, he did have a visible feature on his person which was obtained, in some respect, from an act or acts of which others considered "cruel and or savage". http://www.herby.com.pl/herby/ will take you to a site where it is possible to see, by province, where the 374 OKRUTA's resided within Poland as of about 1990. When you get to the site, click on "Slownika Nazwisk Wspólczesnie w Polsce Uzywanych", then type in the surname OKRUTA in the search box, click "szukaj" (enter). Click Tutaj znajduja sie objasnienia skrótów and a little box will come down on the upper left which will provide province abbreviation's. I see that the largest number of OKRUTA's (154 of them) were grouped in Bielskie province (abbreviation "BB"). Tom Lassek Eufaula Alabama

Tom, Would you know where the name of O'Kruta might fit into the Polish scene? Any background appreciated? Cathy > [Original Message] > From: Thomas E. Lassek <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Date: 8/17/2004 9:52:48 AM > Subject: Re: [PITTSBURGH] Re: WARMINSKI...or MURAWSKA > > "Thank you so much for the explaination on my Warminski and Murawska > surnames....do you do this on only Polish names, or could you give me an explaination on surnames from other origins as well ? > > I am thinking of my cousins name of : TYSARCZYK and my last name of REMLY....however, this has many spellings : > Remley Remayley, Rommele, Remely, Remale, to name a few that I have > found in my Geneaology searches. It is reportedly French, or German , > altho English is also mentioned. > > Regards, Jane " > > - - - - - - - - - - > > Hello again Jane ... > > I center my onomastic hobby, a facet of genealogy, on Polish surnames, since I am of Polish extraction, however, a portion of other Slavic surnames sometimes fall into the same general categories and declension patterns so I can disect some of these as well. Some German surnames too as a large section of Western Europe was under Prussian occupation at one time, so the influence is fairly strong. > > I don't recognize the surname REMLY as Slavic in origin, nor Germanic. If REMLY Family lore suggests a German or a French connection then I would follow up on such research in these areas. Usually most of Family lore is incorrect after so many years, but there's always a bit of truth left in there somewhere. As an opinion, I would consider a "French Connection", however, I think the suffix "LY" is probably "Americanized". You'll note that the root of the surname REMLY, which is REM, remains constant while the suffix changes constantly ?? That's generally because the original surnames' suffix is foreign to our Western tongue/ear and the variants you see are the product of some trying to pronounce and scribe it correctly and some hearing and writing it incorrectly. > > Someone here on this list probably speaks the French language, may have even been born in France. Perhaps they may educate us both concerning this surname along with possible variants. > > In the end, and after your research, the surname REMLY may indeed, by the original spelling, refer back into the Slavic or Germanic countries. There's not enough information at present to state, without doubt, that this is so. If you would state that yes, this is a German surname or a Polish surname, then perhaps I could help you since the root REM exists in some fashion in both Polish and German. > > TYSARCZYK - TYSAR - TYSZER - TESAR : Formed from the Czech, from an occupation or office, from the Czech root word "tesar>" which means "carpenter" in English. Some of the more prevalent surname variants formed from this root word are Tesar, Tesarczyk, Tesarski, Tes~lak, Tessar, Tysarczyk and Tyszer. There were around 153 TYSARCZYK's living in Poland as of about 1990. The suffix CZYK in the surname TYSARCZYK means "Son Of". TYSARCZYK means "Son of the Carpenter". > > An interesting "story" for your cousin - > > It came to pass that the three tribes of the Great Slavic Nation wandered, in hopes of finding a better place to live. Their leaders were Czech, Lech, and Rus. On the banks of the Dnieper river, Rus said "this is the place for my tribe" and there they settled. Czech and Lech continued the journey. Soon they came to a rich land overflowing with milk and honey. Czech climbed to the top of a hill in Bohemia, fell to his knees and opened his mind to the will of the Almighty - and here they stayed. Lech moved on alone and eventually came onto the fertile plains of Polonia. He looked up to receive a sign from his God and against the red sky of the setting sun, he saw a white eagle perched in a tree. Here his tribe stayed and prospered, the white eagle with red background has been the symbol of Poland since that day. > > What a rich heritage we have. > > Tom Lassek > Eufaula Alabama > > > > > > > > ==== PA-PITTSBURGH Mailing List ==== > How to unsubscribe. Send a message to:[email protected] that contains ONLY the word, 'unsubscribe' in the text area. > > ============================== > You can manage your RootsWeb-Review subscription from > http://newsletters.rootsweb.com/

And to continue on with Pennsylvania history: In the early settling of the colony, the English, primarily Quakers, established themselves in the eastern part of Pennsylvania, primarily in Philadelphia. The Germans came in several waves and settled outside of Philadelphia (Germantown) and to the west. The Scotch-Irish also came in waves and settled further west, seen by the Quaker powers-that-be as a convenient buffer between the colony and the Indians, the Scotch-Irish having no compunction about fighting. The Scotch-Irish were lowland Scots who had migrated to Ulster (now Northern Ireland) in the 17th century. Due to one revolt or another, there were not many Irish left in Ulster, thanks to the England's policy of clearing out the lands and bringing in other settlers. When the Scotch-Irish started migrating to Pennsylvania in the early 1700s, they were really a breed apart -- neither Irish (they brought their Presbyterian faith to Ireland with them which later caused problems when England wanted them to pledge loyalty to the Anglican faith) but neither fully Scots after their sojourn in Ireland. One of their most fervent wishes in coming to America was to be left alone which helped make them ideal frontiersmen and women. (Part of the attraction of going to Ulster was to get away from the Highlanders who tore through their lands to fight the English across the border and English troops who did the same going north after the Highlanders.) As more and more of western Pennsylvania was purchased from the Indians, they continued moving west (as well as south down the Shenandoah Valley to North Carolina and eastern Tennessee). The Amish and Mennonite Germans who became known as the Pennsylvania Dutch largely stayed around York and Lancaster, but other Germans moved west into the areas the Scotch-Irish vacated, establishing great breweries such as Yuenglings all across the state. (I have a theory that history has covered up the real reason Jeb Stuart was late getting to Gettysburg -- the south was sorely lacking in good beer and Stuart had heard about this fabulous brewery in Pottsville and on the map it didn't look that far away ...) It's probably a stretch to say they shared a language with the English, at least initially. The Philadelphians were horrified by their dress and manners and glad to see them head out to the frontier. Since they had no allegiances to the old country and no particular love for the English, there was never any doubt where their loyalties lay during the 1770s. They provided Washington's army with fierce fighters and skilled marksmen. They did retain their Scottish respect for education and Presbyterian faith and left a trail of schools and churches on their way west. More than you wanted to know, eh?

Ginnie I haven't been on Pa. list for a while. Resubed a while ago. Thanks for the info about the lampshades. I got just what I wanted at Penny's. Mac used to be off and on. He probably got busy. Barb

Hi Vickie Thanks for the info. I did find out that Penny's sells them and went there and got just what I wanted. Barb

Your wonderful mayor probably wants to build another new stadium; after they are a couple years old now. Ethel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Mangan" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:13 PM Subject: [PITTSBURGH] letter > > Al > Read your letter to the Post. I agree wholeheartedly with you. George doesn't though. Its only standard knowledge that if you have a fire house within two miles of your home, they will get there faster than if they were 4 miles from your home. > Al wrote a column about the Pittsburgh Firemen, who our wonderful Mayor and city council want to decrease again. Both of them spent more money than we had and got us in debt. We got more taxes galore. > Barb > > > ==== PA-PITTSBURGH Mailing List ==== > If you need to contact the listowner, send an email to Sue* at: > [email protected] > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >