Hello the List... Philip CARLE / CARREL and his wife Mary [unk] are said to be born in Germany, by several of their children in the 1880 census. These are Margaret born 20 August 1802 in Lancaster County, and Catherine born 29 August 1807 in Cumberland. Other children were John b. 1798, Mary b. 1801, Joseph b. 1804, Anthony b.1806, Henry, Jane and Philip Jr. Philip died in 1813 during the War of 1812, from Jefferson County, OH by then, and all his heirs are named in 1818 court documents in Steubenville, which are the 9 children and his widow Mary. Probate records of his estate are lost. He left no Will, and Mary declined to act as administrator. Apparently she could neither read nor write, and made her "X" when needed. The purpose of the 1818 court proceedings was to appoint a legal guardian for the minor children. The legal guardian James Tarrance made application under the Act of April 1816 for Bounty Land (granted - BL #715, which was in southern Illinois), and then relinquished it in return for 5-years military half-pay for the heirs. Unfortunately that application is lost or miss-filed at NARA. A mis-filed document at NARA might as well not exist at all. I do have his military records from NARA both from Pennsylvania Militia in 1812, and Regular Army in 1813. I am searching for ANY family information for Philip Carle / Carrel in pre-War of 1812 Pennsylvania. I have found a Jacob and John Carrel traveling together on the ship Patience, Rotterdam to Philadelphia in, 1748. Jacob is 40 and John is 17, probably father and son. Women were not listed. Jacob and John took their oaths in Philadelphia and those records spell with a "K" - Karle and Karrel. I can find no further trace of them. And lastly there is a Philip Carrel advertised as a run-away servant, a German, in Lancaster Co, placed by a John Eigener of Lancaster Co. in a 1761 Philadelphia newspaper. I can't tie him in. My ancestor Philip Carle / Carrel was probably born about 1775, and began raising a family in PA in 1798 when first child was born. Aside from the above, their is no census record, tax record, marriage or birth records, etc. that I have been able to find. Am I missing something? I am at a loss to know how to proceed. I would think there should at least be birth records for these nine children... Thank you, Eric Olson Eric Olson ericbear01@earthlink.net Eight nickels makes 2 paradigms.