My background on my dad's side is Scottish and he brought us up the same way - "Scotch" is a drink (or, living in Minnesota, a tape!). Vicky Munro Sandra Ferguson wrote: > I am currently corresponding with a gent who lives in Scotland....I said > that I am always careful to say someone is a Scot or is Scottish, and > NOT Scotch. Here is his answer; > "Quite right Sandra, > Scotch as a drink and a few others like 'Scotch Mist', but WE are > Scots or Scottish, NEVER Scotch! > > > > -- Vicky Munro University of Minnesota Undergraduate Research Opportunities Program (UROP) 325 Johnston Hall 101 Pleasant St. SE Minneapolis, MN 55455 612-625-3853 munro001@umn.edu

Thanks, Nadine. I asked because the Mendenhalls are one of my direct lines. I have 3 Elizabeths, one born 1611 (too early to be married to Caleb Kirk), one married to Samuel Coates, and one born 1778 (too late to be married to Caleb Kirk) and anyway I show her husband as Joseph Woodward. I have a Caleb Kirk, married 1756 - which was the marriage date Kim indicated in her posting - but I show him married to Elizabeth Coates.

Don't know who you were asking this of but Caleb and Elizabeth were married at Bradford Monthly Meeting and their children including Elisha are among the few of the family records still found in Bradford Monthly Meeting records. Nadine Holder ----- Original Message ----- From: "eeyore" <eeyoresan@comcast.net> To: <PA-OLD-CHESTER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 11:25 PM Subject: Re: [PaOldC] More on Priscilla Kirk and her parents and grandparents >I apologize if you already gave this info, but what are your sources for >Caleb Kirk marrying Elizabeth Mendenhall, and having son Elisha? > > thanks, > Margaret > > ==== PA-OLD-CHESTER Mailing List ==== > Unsubscribing.... To leave PA-old-chester-l, send mail to > PA-old-chester-l-request@rootsweb.com > with the single word unsubscribe in the message or subject slot. > > NO VIRUS WARNINGS - if you are concerned contact me PERSONALLY > ferg@ntelos.net > > If you have ANY problems, do not send them to the list > contact me personally....list manager ferg@ntelos.net > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > >

"Quite right Sandra, Scotch as a drink and a few others like 'Scotch Mist', but WE are Scots or Scottish, NEVER Scotch! I wouldn't call a Scot "Scotch". I recognize and am proud of my Scottish roots in four grandparents traced back to PA in the 1700's, and in almost every branch of my family tree despite many having living in Ireland for some generations before they emigrated. That said, Scotch-Irish is a commonly used term that I know to be generally applied to certain waves of immigrants in a context of genealogy and US history. I don't believe it's a slur or an insult in current usage or in the common usage for the last hundred years or more. Yet the term seems to be one that trips up conversational usage and distracts from the conversation at hand even though we all know what is meant by the usage, and many seem to suggest it's a uniquely American term used incorrectly only by ignorant Americans. That simply isn't so. It has quite a record of historical usage outside of the US also. I realize that in general the term Scotch is widely misused to apply to Scots and that it could be seemed as offensive to some, even though I doubt it is intended that way by most that use it. But when used as a modifier to identify those Scots who emigrated to Ireland but retained their Scottish heritage I don't think it's a slur or an incorrect usage, especially given that this has been used that way for over 500 years now. I don't think George Washington meant it harshly or as a slur when he said, at Valley Forge: "If all else fails, I will retreat up the valley of Virginia, plant my flag on the Blue Ridge, rally around the Scotch-Irish of that region, and make my last stand for liberty amongst a people who will never submit to British tyranny whilst there is a man left to draw a trigger." Then there's the society founded in 1889, The Scotch-Irish Society of the United States of America, which hasn't yet seen fit to change their name. See http://www.rootsweb.com/~sisusa/ This site suggests there's even a 16th century English historical context for the term Scotch-Irish: http://www.scotchirish.net/What%20about%20the%20name.php4 and it notes: "But the first to use the term, Scotch-Irish, was Queen Elizabeth as far back as 1573 when in a manifesto she said "....We are given to understand that a nobleman names "Sorely Boy," and others, who be of the Scotch-Irish race, and some of the wild Irish, at this time are content to acknowledge our true and mere right to the country of Ulster and the Crown of Ireland...." Its obvious from this that the Scotch Irish as a people have been recognized to have existed some 500 years ago." The link above goes into historical references in the 1600's, 1700's, and attempts in the 1800's to claim that this was a uniquely American term. It isn't, and I can't bring myself to believe that there's any great controversy over the usage. I just checked a 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica and find the term used in over 20 articles there. Consider the 288 books with Scotch-Irish in the title found at Amazon.com, some published as recently as the last decade. Scotch-Irish is also found in about 1,860,000 web pages. Obviously the term is not going to go away and remains in common usage despite any protests from Scots or others. Personally I don't think it matters much, especially if it gets in the way of getting past a word that may be mis-used to find anything that might help us with research. Labels serve a purpose, and even mis-used labels convey useful information. Quaker was a term originally used in scorn that has become accepted as a commonly used label even by the Society of Friends. So I'm not going to pretend that the term Scotch-Irish in reference to genealogy and a migration of specific peoples hasn't been an acknowledged, if not widely used term, for well over 5 centuries, especially when it comes to citing books that used the term long before I was born. And, back to Scotch, while Scots may protest it the use of the term to apply to Scottish has persisted and is found in dictionaries even as the primary definition of the word, in some cases above the use of the word to apply to a drink. For example, the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000. NOUN: 1. (used with a pl. verb) The people of Scotland. 2. Scots English. 3. Scotch whisky. ADJECTIVE: 1. Scottish. See Usage Note at Scottish. 2. Tight with one's money; frugal. ETYMOLOGY: Contraction of Scottish. I checked 4 or 5 dictionaries and all include the definition in some form and only two noted that the term may be considered offensive by Scots. One of those, Dictionary.com, even goes into the history and explains that at one time the term was even used in Scotland but then fell in disfavor: "Usage Note: Scottish is the full, original form of the adjective. Scots is an old Scottish variant. Scotch is an English contraction of Scottish that came into use in Scotland as well for a time (as in Burns's "O thou, my Muse! guid auld Scotch drink!") but subsequently fell into disfavor there. In the interest of civility, forms involving Scotch are best avoided in reference to people; designations formed with Scots are most common (Scot, Scotsman, or Scotswoman), but those involving the full form Scottish are sometimes found in more formal contexts. Scotch-Irish is the most commonly used term for the descendants of Scots who migrated to North America, but lately Scots-Irish has begun to gain currency among those who know that Scotch is considered offensive in Scotland. There is, however, no sure rule for referring to things, since the history of variation in the use of these words has left many expressions in which the choice is fixed, such as Scotch broth, Scotch whisky, Scottish rite, and Scots Guards." I honestly didn't even realize that there might be any offense taken in the use of the term, and I've heard the common comeback jokes about how Scots aren't drinks thousands of times and always assumed that was intended with a sense of humor more than a sense of outrage. I lived in San Francisco for a decade and there are similar responses to the use of the term Frisco such as Ogden Nash's "May I boil in oil: And fry in Crisco: If I ever call: San Francisco 'Frisco'." I suspect you could find many examples like this that may irk some people but aren't likely to incite a bar brawl if the words are met with jokes in response protesting them. But back to the Scotch-Irish, I can see no other simpler way to describe the ancestors, such as my own, who were of a strong Scottish heritage despite generations in Ireland before emigrating. So I think it's fairly silly to ignore the historical use of the word and to insist on use of the term Scots-Irish, especially in regard to an article from 1926 that uses Scotch-Irish. That said, I'd like to again cite the fine article on early Scotch-Irish settlers in PA, as many may have missed it buried in the lengthy response about Baileys. There's a wealth of info including names and dates of early settlers and historical divisions of some of the townships and counties many of us are focused on researching. Call it what you will, but please take a look: http://www.horseshoe.cc/pennadutch/people/scotirish/scotrish.htm Here's another good site I found that covers the migrations from Ulster circa 1718 and includes a petition list where I find a few familiar names on including some from my tree: http://1718migration.org.uk/s_background.asp

I apologize if you already gave this info, but what are your sources for Caleb Kirk marrying Elizabeth Mendenhall, and having son Elisha? thanks, Margaret

I HAPPEN TO BE SCOTCH IRISH AND AM PROUD OF THE ETHNIC SLUR GIVEN BY THE ENGLISH COLONISTS ....... FEEL FREE TO CALL ME SCOTCH UNLESS YOU ARE A REDCOAT ......... CRAZY JOE .................RESEARCHING MC LELLAN DESCENDANTS OF ROBERT MCLELLAN OF CHESTER COUNTY 1729

More on Priscilla Kirk: " Charles Townsend married Priscilla Kirk on Oct. 6, 1803 at Darby, Pa. Priscilla was born ca 1785. They were both prominant members of Green Street Friends Meeting. She was an accepted minister. Charles was a jewler [sic] at 10th and Chestnut Strs. in Philadelphia. Priscilla was a dau of Elisha Kirk, b. Dec 25, 1757 and d. April 11, 1790. He was the son of Caleb Kirk and Elizabeth Mendenhall. They were md. Sept. 30, 1756 and East Caln Meeting. Elisha Kirk md. Ruth Miller who d. June 16, 1798." More on some of the Children of Charles Townsend and Priscilla Kirk, John Kirk Townsned's siblings: " Elisha K. Townsend, b. July 16, 1804, md. Elizabeth Jaydock on Nov. 2, 1826. He was a dentist in Philadelphia. (b.) Edward Townsend, b. Jan 22, 1806 was also a dentist in Philadelphia was greatly interested in philanthropic work, especially in relation to prisons. He md. Ann Albertson Townsend. from the Townsend Society Newsletter, Fall 1990 page 3." Kim Townsend Spangrude On Jun 21, 2006, at 3:11 PM, Quaker1682@aol.com wrote: > > Thank you for correcting yourself. I had Charles, but you were so > knowledgeable that I changed Charles to John. I have now changed it > back to Charles. >   > Who did John Kirk Townsend marry and do you know his siblings? I can > help with the Kirk line, if you need it. >   > Barclay Richards > Lancaster Co. > Nottingham, Pa.

I am currently corresponding with a gent who lives in Scotland....I said that I am always careful to say someone is a Scot or is Scottish, and NOT Scotch. Here is his answer; "Quite right Sandra, Scotch as a drink and a few others like 'Scotch Mist', but WE are Scots or Scottish, NEVER Scotch! -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/370 - Release Date: 6/20/2006

Below is the response I received from DAR for my inquiry about 2nd Lt. William Anderson, part of McClure's Battalion in Chester Co., 1777. (Sandra Ferguson's idea) ANDERSON, William Birth: PA 21 Nov 1763 Service: PA Rank: Pvt Death: IN 22 Apr 1836 Patriot Pensioned: No Widow Pensioned: No Children Pensioned: No Heirs Pensioned: No Spouse: (1) Jane Bell This is the only Wm Anderson born and served in PA. Well, the spouse Jane BELL did not match either of the names of women married at Christ Church in Philadelphia who had married a William Anderson. So, I don't even know where in PA the DAR William Anderson is from. But the DAR request was worth it, just in case it would have given me a lead. My WIlliam Anderson would have been born about 30 or more years prior to this one. Maybe this one is the son of one of James Anderson's other sons. Hope the info from the look up will help someone else. I'll keep plugging away. Laura

I'm interested in the Quaker Baileys from Chester County, and also a Robert Bailey from Sadsbury, Lancaster County. I've looked fairly hard to connect Robert to the Quaker Bailey family and had no luck. Alternate name variations include Bayley, Baily, Baillie. The Quaker line is fairly well documented here along with at least two generations of Isaac Bailey families: http://www.quakersurnames.net/bailey.html I don't see a Kirk marriage there. I'll poke around some more. It would seem likely that there's some connection to this line and an Isaac missing from this tree that fits your query. I've found some other early Bayleys also around Lancaster though at the time they settled it was still Chester County. There are also some VA lines that date back to 1600s. I think some of the later VA lines may be connected to my Lancaster family because there are also marriages to Steeles in those lines. There's an excellent article on early Scoth-Irish settlements here that details western Chester and the evolution into Lancaster and migrations to Cumberland. This details a lot related to Scots at Pequea, Donegal and so on. I can't recommend it enough for anyone with Scotch-Irish* ancestors in PA in that early 1700's era: http://www.horseshoe.cc/pennadutch/people/scotirish/scotrish.htm I also highly recommend a book called by Hubertis M. Cummings, 'Scots Breed and Susquehanna', "A vivid and moving tale of the indomitable Scots-Irish, from their ancient battling against tyranny in the mountains and glens of Scotland, through their early 18th-century struggle to create home and school and church along the American Susquehanna in Pennsylvania. This is a detailed history, filled with the exploits and sufferings of these sturdy folk, both in Britain and in America. A classic." You can find used copies or a CD-ROM version for under $15 online. (*I know the use of Scotch-Irish is seen as politically incorrect by some, but having looked at this in detail I find that the term was used in England long before it's more common use in the USA and it is a term with much historical use to the point of being broadly accepted. It also sounds better than Scots-Irish and it's the title used in this chapter from 1926. I drink Scoth, I've worn a kilt to Scottish dances and am a member of the St. Andrews Society of PA, and I've heard the various arguments about this.) Here's a list of early settlers cited in that link above that mostly settled in what was then Chester County at the time they arrived: "The first permanent settlers in what may be termed the Donegal region located along the Chiques creek, beginning in 1716, and spreading eventually over most of the five town- ships now represented in the original Donegal. The list is not complete, but it at least establishes the time of settlement of some of the principal Scotch-Irish families of the "Upper. End" of the county. Robert Middleton is shown as settling in 1716; John and George Stewart in 1717; Peter Allen, Robert and William Buchanan, William Bryan, Thomas Bayley, Henry Bealey, Andrew, James and John Galbraith, John Gardner, James Mitchell, Samuel Smith, John Sterret, Robert, Thomas, William and John Wilkins in 1718; Patrick Campbell, James Cunningham, Joseph Cloud, James Couch, Daniel Clark, Widow Dunning, John and Thomas Mitchell, Ephraim Moore, James Smith, and Joseph Work in 1720; John Taylor in 1721; Robert, James and John Allison, Gordon Howard, Thomas Howard, Alexander Hutchison, William Maybee, Richard McFarland, Robert Monday, John Maris, James Kyle, and Hugh White, in 1722; John Miller in 1723; Thomas Black, William Beach, John Black, Robert Brown, John Davison, John Doaks, Christian Gardner, John Walker and Michael Wood, in 1724; Jeremiah Bringham, Matthias Blazer, James Brownlow, Abraham Inless, Hugh Scott, in 1725; Rev. James Anderson, Joseph Baston, James Harris, Alexander McKee, George Mayfort, in 1726; Lazarus, James, John, Daniel and Alexander Lowrey, in 1729; James Buey, James Cook, Peter Hairston, James Hutchison, John Kelley, William and Alexander Mitchell, Thomas and John Scott, in 1730." That only covers a few of the many names referenced in this deailed history of the early growth of areas such as Colerain, Drumore, East Drumore, Fulton, Little Britain, East Donegal, West Donegal, Conoy, Mount Joy and Rapho. In that article, with regard to Bayleys, it cites: "John Galbraith located along what was then called Spring creek, which had its source at the spring at Donegal church. He selected the land at a point where a new road had been laid out, branching from Peter's road, a short distance northeast from the present town of Mount joy, and which led through the new settlement. This road again branched at Galbraith's, one road going to the river and the other inclining northwest, and connecting with the Peters road near Conoy creek. John Galbraith in the same year (1720) erected the first grist and saw mill above the Conestoga. The travel over these roads became so great that Mr. Galbraith applied to the Chester county court to grant him a license to keep an ordinary and brew beer." John Galbraith was a member of the first grand jury of Lancaster county, and was sheriff in 1731- In 1748 he was a captain in his brother's (Col. James Galbraith's) battalion, which ranged along, the mountains to protect the frontier settlers from Indian raids. He died in 1753. After the death of John Galbraith, his lands Were divided and sold. That part on the east side of the creek was purchased by Mr. Hiestand, and the grist and saw mill, with the ordinary and several hundred acres of land, were purchased by John Bayly, who was the son of Thomas Bayly, and was born upon a farm near where Florin now is. John Bayly was a member of the Supreme Executive Council from this county during the Revolutionary War. The mills and ordinary were conducted by him until his death in 1794. He was one of the owners and founders of the town of Falmouth. A few years after his death, Henry Shearer purchased the farm and mills. In 1804 he tore the old mills down, and erected a large stone mill on the south side of the road, and a large stone dwelling on the hill on the north side. Either then or few years later a still house was erected near the mill. This was known as merchant mill. Large quantities of flour from this mill were shipped down the river to the Baltimore market." I left the Galbraith part in for context on the location.A later reference notes: "The Bayly family, the head of which was Thomas Bayly, settled about a mile west from Mount Joy borough, on the turnpike. He died in 1734. His son John has been already mentioned herein. His son James bought the farm later owned by the Cassel family, in 1761-62." I have looked at this family a bit in the Lancaster LCHS archives and have some wills and data I have not had a chance to process, but I still can't match it up to my Robert Bailey of Lancaster yet. Also curious is the close connection between a Robert Baillie, who was an inspiration to the Jacobites, and Patrick Hume when Hume was persecuted in Scotland in the late 1600's. That Robert Baillie had planned to migrate to the continent but was executed in the 1860s. His son married Lady Grizel Hume, daughter of Patrick, and I can't account for their children fully. I do find it curious that my Humes line in PA had multiple marriages to my Bailey line a few generations later. Some details on Baillie and Hume can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baillie_of_Jerviswood http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grizel_Baillie I've also tried to establish connections between my Thomas Jordan line and the Quaker Baileys. Jordan married Ann Steele and as such was brother in law of Jacob Bailey below. There are close relationships between Quaker Jordan lines of Isle of Wight VA and a Bailey family there that I believe is related to the Quaker Bailys of Chester, but as yet I can't place a connection between my Jordans and Braileys to the Quaker families by those names. My Robert Bailey line is outlined as follows: Descendants of Robert Bailey of Sadsbury, Lancaster County PA 1 Robert Bailey 1706 - 1798 .... +Margaret McDill 1714 - 1800 ........ 2 Lydia Bailey .............. +James Thompson ........ 2 Jennet Bailey 1750 - .............. +James Sterrett ........ 2 Abigail Ann Bailey - 1828 .............. +John Steele 1758 - 1827 ................... 3 Harriet Steele - 1839 ......................... +Robert Jr. Maxwell ............................. 4 Robert Steele Maxwell 1815 - 1890 ................................... +Elizabeth Sheldon Bull 1815 - 1888 ........................................ 5 Edward Sheldon Maxwell ................... *2nd Husband of Harriet Steele: ......................... +John Long 1788 - 1855 ............................. 4 H. Harvey Long ............................. 4 Elizabeth S, Long ............................. 4 William Steele Long 1817 - 1869 ................................... +Harriet R. Jordan 1829 - 1922 ................... 3 John Steele 1788 - 1853 ......................... +Jane Porter 1791 - 1867 ............................. 4 Mary Steele ................................... +Henry Edward Slaymaker - 1905 ........................................ 5 Mary Slaymaker ........................................ 5 Francis Slaymaker ........................................ 5 Susan Reigart Slaymaker ................... *2nd Wife of John Steele: ......................... +McClung ........ 2 Jacob Bailey 1741 - .............. +Rachel Steele 1746 - 1803 ................... 3 Margaret Bailey 1766 - ......................... +John Humes ................... 3 Rachel Bailey 1768 - 1857 ......................... +Edward Crouch 1764 - 1827 (my mother's line via 1st wife) ................... 3 Susannah Bailey 1772 - ................... 3 Harriette Bailey 1774 - ......................... +Joseph Burd ................... 3 Ann Elmira Bailey 1784 - 1862 ......................... +Hamilton Humes 1784 - 1859 (my father's line) ............................. 4 Elizabeth Humes ............................. 4 Rachel Bailey Humes 1816 - 1883 ................................... +Samuel Humes 1801 - 1859 ........................................ 5 Hamilton Bailey Humes 1844 - 1913 .............................................. +Floretta (Flora) S. Sebring .................................................. 6 Mary Humes 1861 - 1884 .................................................. 6 Samuel Humes 1870 - 1904 ........................................................ + Jessica Cole Prindle 1870 - 1948 ............................. 4 Catherine Humes 1828 - ........ 2 Francis Bailey 1744 - (printer for the Rev. Congress) .............. +Eleanor Miller 1756 - 1832 ................... 3 Abby Bailey 1800 - 1863 ......................... +John Hough James 1800 - 1881 ............................. 4 John Henry James 1834 - 1898 ................................... +Harriet Hall Lynch 1837 - 1911 ........................................ 5 Gertrude V. James ........................................ 5 Abbe Bailey James I'm missing some details there, such as Francis Bailey's son Robert and his wife Lydia. Francis was a close friend of Benjamin Franklin, probably dating back to his acquaintence through his father being appointed to a security position by Franklin in the 1750's. Francis became a printer and was running a newspaper in Lancaster and printing announcements related to the Revolutionary Congress as early as July 5, 1776 and later while Congress was in exile in York. He later printed currency, patented a type setting process and was an official printer for Congress after the war. A search of the LOC archives shows some of the scope of his work and his print shop has a historical marker in Lancaster today. Francis Bailey published some of the first Swedenborg tracts and was an early convert to that sect. His friendship with Franklin is supported by his being a witeness to Franklin's will. Robert Bailey, son of Francis, took over his father's printing business, which at some point moved to Philadelphia. Robert Bailey's wife Lydia continued the business after his death as one of the first women printers in the states, operating her own very successful press in the early 1800's. Amongst other things she published was poetry by Rev. War soldiers in the early 1800s.

Sorry, I made a mistake in my prev. email. Abigail Emrie/Embrie married Charles Townsend, not John. Charles was born 1705 in Bucklebury, Birkshire, England. Kim Townsend Spangrude On Jun 21, 2006, at 2:04 PM, Kim Spangrude wrote: > I found in my data base a Bailey from Berks County, and a Kirk from > Chester County. > Mary Bailey, b. abt 1685, married Moses Emrie (or Embree, b. abt > 1675), around 1710. They had Abigail Emrie/Embree. She married John > Townsend on May 18, 1730. They had John Townsend b. Nov 16 1747. John > Townsend married Hanna Cox (born May 10 1751). John and Hanna had a > Charles (born 1777), who married Priscilla Kirk (b. abt 1785) in or > about 1803. Charles and Priscilla Kirk Townsend had John Kirk > Townsend (and 10 other children) who was a famous ornithologist and > biologist. The Townsend's Warbler was named after him. > Kim Townsend Spangrude > On Jun 21, 2006, at 1:21 PM, Mal Humes wrote: > >> Kirk > > > ==== PA-OLD-CHESTER Mailing List ==== > Unsubscribing. To leave PA-old-chester-l, send mail to > PA-old-chester-l-request@rootsweb.com > with the single word unsubscribe in the message or subject slot." > > > NO VIRUS WARNINGS - if you are concerned contact me PERSONALLY > ferg@ntelos.net > > Visit the archives for this list to view old postings > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=PA-OLD- > CHESTER > If you have ANY problems, do not send them to the list > contact me personally....list manager ferg@ntelos.net > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

I found in my data base a Bailey from Berks County, and a Kirk from Chester County. Mary Bailey, b. abt 1685, married Moses Emrie (or Embree, b. abt 1675), around 1710. They had Abigail Emrie/Embree. She married John Townsend on May 18, 1730. They had John Townsend b. Nov 16 1747. John Townsend married Hanna Cox (born May 10 1751). John and Hanna had a Charles (born 1777), who married Priscilla Kirk (b. abt 1785) in or about 1803. Charles and Priscilla Kirk Townsend had John Kirk Townsend (and 10 other children) who was a famous ornithologist and biologist. The Townsend's Warbler was named after him. Kim Townsend Spangrude On Jun 21, 2006, at 1:21 PM, Mal Humes wrote: > Kirk

Have you done a patriot lookup to see if any woman has joined the DAR with William as their Vet? Have you checked the NARA to see if Wm has any military/pension papers on file? (as an aside, I can tell you that any and all Quakers who served in the military, in any way, were no longer Friends...they would have been disowned by their meeting.) Sandra "2nd Lt. William Anderson ?" -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.1/369 - Release Date: 6/19/2006

Sorry....I have the book JOEL BAILY AND ANN SHORT 1683+ ENGLAND AND PA, by Donna Beers. This family is the origin of most of our Baily folks in Chester, and there are many James, and Isaacs - but no Isaac married to a Susannah Kirk , and no Isaac at all with a son James. I had hopes for this book, but no such luck. Kirk is also a familiar name in Chester, many of the family descending through Alphonsus, who emigrated to Pa in the 1680s, via Virginia...but no mention of a Susannah.....nor does the History of Chester County contain these folks. I would suggest you visit the Chester Co. site and request some specific lookups.....maybe you'll have better luck. It may say that I'm unavailable, but disregard....I am. I looked for wills that mention the name Isaac BAily/Bailey, with little luck....here is one, but a bit early to be the father of someone born in 1802..however, as an Isaac Baily was also the adm, perhaps it was Isaac, father of Isaac, father of James. BAILY, ISAAC. East Marlborough.December 25, 1806.Isaac Baily, Administrator, pendente lite. Here's another will for another Isaac, with a couple other Isaacs mentioned, too...just to give you an indication of how common the name was; BAILY, ISAAC. East Marlborough.August (8 mo.), 1805: May 11, 1808.Provides for wife Sarah.To son Samuel tenement and about 45 acres of land called the Jackson tract; also tenement and about 23 acres called Eckhoff tract.To Joshua Wiley and Hannah, his wife, the tenement and tract now in their occupancy, containing 40 acres, during life, and at their decease to David Baily, a natural son of said Hannah; also to said David £100 at 21. To son Isaac £100. To son Joshua £5.To son Jabez the mansion house and plantation upon which I now live, subject to payment of £200 in legacies. Remainder equally divided.Executor: Son Isaac Baily.Wits.: William Wickersham, Robert Clendenon, Caleb Wickersham.Will contested by Joshua Baily and a verdict in its favor May 11, 1808. and another; BAILY, ISAAC. East Marlborough.July 18, 1822. August 26, 1822.To my two sons Isaac H. and Jesse Baily all estate, real and personal; also Executors.Wits: James Gawthrop, Benjamin Mason, Jr., James Smith. *(H=Howell) Keep the above wills, in case they 'fit' later.... Sandra "James Bailey born about 1802 in Chester Co. Pa. . I now have the names of his parents Isaac Bailey and Susannah Kirk of Chester co. Pa. " -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.1/369 - Release Date: 6/19/2006

ID: I317035 Name: Phila TOWNSEND Given Name: Phila Surname: Townsend Sex: F Birth: Abt 1732 in Highlands, Ulster, NY Death: 15 Jan 1820 in Newburgh, Orange Co., NY Burial: 1820 Old Town Burying Ground, Middle South Section Iii, Newburgh, NY Change Date: 4 Oct 2002 at 15:31 Marriage 1 Samuel MERRITT b: Abt 1728 in Highlands, Ulster, NY Married: Abt 1750 in Highlands, Ulster, NY Change Date: 4 Oct 2002 -----Original Message----- From: Mal Humes [mailto:mal3@mal.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 6:38 AM To: PA-OLD-CHESTER-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [PaOldC] Phila Townsend >Need help locating the specifics regarding a Phila Townsend, born 15 >May 1751 and died 15 Jan 1820. Husband was Samuel Merritt. May have >been of the Townsends in Chester, or Bucks County. Samuel Merritt seems to have been born and died in NY. Phila is buried in Old Town cemetary in New Burg, NY. I'm curious where the birth and death dates come from as there is a Phila Townsend who appears a possible fit but there are some things that don't match. Do you have specific reason to think there is a Chester County connection? The only clue I can find leading to PA other than the curious name is an entry for another NY family that looks like a good lead, sourced from a book found in Ancestry.com: 'A Hallock genealogy : an attempt to tabulate and set in order the numerous descendants of Peter Hallock who landed at Southold' "James Hallock, Preacher" married Elizabeth Townsend, born 1760 to Nicholas and Philadelphia Townsend of Cornwall NY. Per this reference Philadelphia Townsend was cited as having a maiden name of Doughty, who was "the granddaughter of Philadelphia Masters, the first white girl born in Philadelphia, PA." So it seems plausible that Phila Townsend was a sister of Elizabeth Townsend Hallock and that you're looking for Nicholas Townsend & Philadelphia Doughty of Cornwall, NY and more documentation on that family to prove the connection. Then again it seems very possible there is yet another Philadelphia Townsend in that era given some of the confusing and conflicting info I found. Before I get into this let me say that WorldConnect system I sourced links and info from below uses user submitted data that tends to be highly inaccurate and often doesn't cite sources. That said, it's a great place to look for leads and the powerful search engine lets you pair surnames to surnames, locations and dates to come up with good leads for siblings, parents and so on. But take any info found there as unconfirmed if sources aren't and if they are cited I'd suggest checking them anyway. These trees tend to spread mistakes like viruses and few have solid documentation. Here's a link that shows the line from Masters to Doughty: http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:2893127&id=I5367 Then to confuse things further there's a Merritt tree here that shows what appears to be your Samuel Merritt and lists a Phila Townsend married to his brother Humphrey: http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=DESC&db=:a17882&id=I352 That conflicts with this version of the tree that shows a different wife for Humphrey: http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=jch00&id=I09484 Here's a tree that shows Nicolas Townsend and the 2 generations of Townsends before him. That tree lists a daughter as Mary Philadelphia Townsend but shows her as married to a William Cock. http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=420angel&id=I3561 39 There's a few trees that show Phildelphia Townsend as married to William Cock and her sister Hannah married to Jacob Cock. Some list Phila's date of birth as 23 SEP 1770, others as 30 JUL 1763. The ones that show marriages of Phila Townsend to the Merritt brothers estimate DOB as closer to their 1737/39 birth dates. There's also an 1830 death date listed for the one married to William Cock on one tree. There's also some suggestions that the Doughty/Townsend marriage didn't happen until 1762 or 1763. Note that there also seems to be some variants between children of Phildelphia Doughty as named Mary Philadelphia or just Phildelphia. So perhaps there could have been two sisters that people have confused. Then there's the possibility that there could be yet another Doughty or Masters descendant that married a Townsend and that there could be yet another Phila Townsend in that era. Looking back at the Doughty trees there is another tree that shows a cousin of Philadelphia Doughty who also married a Townsend that could have had a child in the same era that would also be a grand-daughter of Phildelphia Masters. There are fairly detailed children listed though and no Philadelphia in that line. I lost that link somehow but one of the descendant views I looked at from Hannah Williams or Philadelphia Masters and showed what looked like a first cousin of Phila Doughty married to a Dr. Townsend with children born in 1750's, but no Phila in that particularly line. I wouldn't rule out that there could be yet another undocumented marriage connecting Townsends to the descendants of Masters. This researcher has one of the better documented Townsend lines but sources are not clear: http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=DESC&db=maitland-poole&i d=I5386 Navigate up a few generations and look at descendants and you see an overwhelming series of generations of Townsends with many more marriages to the Cock family also: http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=DESC&db=maitland-poole&i d=I0642 I suspect somewhere in that Townsend family is your Phila but maybe not documented here or in Woldconnect. I'd try working down from the grandmother as she seems to be the source of the Philadelphia name and the best lead to find any other descendants that may have married into the Townsends. I also wouldn't rule out Phildelphia Doughty as the mother, even if she did marry someone else, and I'd make sure the date info you have for your Phila Townsend are really accurate and try to verify the dates for the daughter of Doughty or any possibility there is a missing child in that tree. At least at some point this was a Quaker family early on and so Quaker records down from the Masters and Williams may be your best bet for good documents. Here's one of the only ones that cites sources on Philadelphia Masters: http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=tinzhaven&id=I196 54 # Name: Long Island Genealogies, COMPILED BY MARY POWELL BUNKER, Munsell's Historical Series no. 24., ALBANY, N. Y., JOEL MUNSELL'S SONS, PUBLISHERS. 1895. # Name: Early Friends Families of Upper Bucks Name: Clarence V. Roberts Name: Originally published Phila, PA 1925 Name: Reprinted Genealogical Publishing Co, Baltimore, MD 1975, 1995, 2000 Name: Library of Congress 75-4008 # Name: History of Bucks County, PA, Volume l & II, Bucks County Genealogies Name: originally prepared under the editorial supervision of Warren S. Ely and John W. Jordan and published as Volume III of "History of Bucks County Pennsylvania, second edition, New York & Chicago, 1905 Name: reprinted by Genealogical Publishing Co, Inc, Baltimore, MD, 1975, 1992, 1994, 1999 # Name: THE HISTORY OF BUCKS COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA. Name: from the discovery of the Delaware to the present time by W. W. H. Davis, A.M., 1876 and 1905 editions Note that another tree here shows discusses conflicting sources for the date of marriage of Hannah Williams and Benjamine Doughty, see: http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:1240467&id=I5664 2481 I cc'd Karen McIntyre because she is referenced as also seeking info on Phila Townsend in pages at http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=olney&id=I1275 that details more on the Samuel Merrit's family. Good Luck! One of the reasons I try to avoid citing the WorldConnect trees other than the poor documentation is that I get dizzy trying to compare the various trees. ==== PA-OLD-CHESTER Mailing List ==== Unsubscribing. To leave PA-old-chester-l, send mail to PA-old-chester-l-request@rootsweb.com with the single word unsubscribe in the message or subject slot." NO VIRUS WARNINGS - if you are concerned contact me PERSONALLY ferg@ntelos.net please visit the Chester Co rootsweb site...it is full of area photos, helpful URLs and lots of county information http://www.pa-roots.com/~chester/ Visit the archives for this list to view old postings http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=PA-OLD-CHESTER If you have ANY problems, do not send them to the list contact me personally....list manager ferg@ntelos.net ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx

> Another Andrew family to consider is that of Robert Andrew, b. abt 1724, d. > abt 1793 Orange Co, NC. He was in London Grove Twp, Chester Co, in 748 as a > "single man" attending a Quaker mwedding. He married (1) Jane --, and (2) > Sarah -- abt 1752. Robert, Jane and family moved to Orange Co, NC in 1765. No > parents found yet for Robert, but we might find a common ancestor a > generation or two back. > Eleanor Rayl

Hello All, I realize this will become a somewhat lengthy post and I apologize. But, I do hope someone can either help me or find something useful here for themselves. Below I have posted an excerpt from "Bev" who posted this to the "General" message board on Rootsweb in 2000. I wonder if anyone can tell me who the 2nd Lt. William Anderson is? I recognize several names of the other soldiers listed, such as William Griffith, Thomas Evans, Joseph Black, John Beaton and possibly Thomas Davis and John Llewellyn. I think I have read that Griffith, Evans, Black and Davis were Quaker, but I don't know for sure. Several were dismissed from their Quaker status after the war when they returned home. My Anderson family married into the Beaton, Davis and Evans families, and my Jerman/Jarman people married into the Evans' and possibly the Llewellyn's. James Anderson and wife Elizabeth Jerman had 8 children, of which only two (Capt. Patrick and Edward Anderson) have been researched and linked to them. They "did" have a son William, but no source I know of has linked a William to them. There are a total of eight children mentioned in Elizabeth Jerman's mother's will (Elizabeth Jerman, d. 1741) as being children of James and Elizabeth, but they are not named. (this is me, pulling out my hair :-0 ) If anyone can point me to some sources for this military group and how I might find out more about the 2nd Lt. William Anderson, I would be grateful. Thanks, Laura Pa. Archives, Fifth Series, Volume V. Starts on page 843...at the top it says County of Chester William Griffith, David Hays, William Carlile, Jr., John Williamson, (blank) Hollman, Ephraim Blackburn, Benjamin Brumback, (blank) Colby, Edwin Parker, John Ramsay, John Snyder, John McKee, Isaac Eyre, James Fulton, John Cummings, Thomas Evans, Samuel Junkens, Joseph Black, John Kincaid, James Ramage, John Crosby, Richard Strode EIGHTH Battalion Lt. Col Joseph Spear, Major John Boyd, Number of men: 570 CHESTER COUNTY BATTALION [most of htis battallion were taken prisoner at Ft. Wahsington, but as wil be seem, we have only a partial roll of one company] Col. William Montgomery, Lt. Col Thomas Bull, Captains: Joseph Gardner, John Shaw (resigned), Samuel Wallace, Mathew Boyd, Samuel Culbinson, John Beaton, James Boylan, William Price in place of Capt. Shaw, John McDowall, James McClure. Page 844 First Lt.: William Henry, John Smith, Andrew Dunwoody, Allen Cunningham, Thomas Henry, Joseph Strawbridge, Benjamn Culbertson, Joseph Bartholomew, Second Lt: Robert Filson, William Anderson, William Lockard, Joseph Wherry, Thomas Davis, David Curry, Samuel Hamill, Alexander McCarragher. Ensigns: William Cunningham, Thomas James, John Grardtrensher (??), Lazurus Finney, John Filson, Archibald Dysart, Andrew Curry, John Llewellyn Captain McClures Company Payroll of Prisioners of Capt. James McClures company, Col. William Montgomery's Regt of the Flying Camp, in the State of Pa., taken at Ft. Washington Captain James McClure,1st Lt. John Smith,2nd Lt. William Anderson, Sgts: John G Rencher, ex. January 3, 1777; William Kennedy, ex. January 3, 1777, Robert Campbell, ex. January 3, 1777

There is the URL for some marriages from St. Paul's included on the Chester site mentioned in your Welcome Email......under State Resources and Helpful URLs.... If you do a google search using "St Pauls" +church + philadelphia as your search subject, you'll find their site, where you could see what they have to offer, etc. Google.com searches will turn up almost anything you seek. I suggest you place it on your desktop....I use it daily for everything from book titles to soup recipes! It's a wonderful tool for us all. Sandra Does anyone know if there is any publication for this church's records; the status of the records, or if they have a genaolgist on site you can pay to do record searches? I am needing 1700-1775 records for my "bad" Quakers. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.1/369 - Release Date: 6/19/2006

MLCHIOR, JOHN. Vincent.January 21, 1782. May 29, 1787.Provides for wife Mary. To daughter Elizabeth, wife of Benjamin Thomas, 20 shillings. To son William 20 shillings. To children of daughter Rebecca Christman, deceased, 20 shillings. To sons John and David 20 shillings each. t daughter Sarah, wife of Thomas Steel, 5 shillings, etc. To daughter Mary, wife of Edward Bell, all remainder real and personal. Executors: Son-in-law Edward Bell and wife Mary.Letters to Edward Bell, wife renouncing.Wit: Robert Ralston, Thomas Willson, Jonathan Coates. THOMAS, AMOS. Charlestown.February 9, 1783. November 6, 1790.To daughter Susanna Miller £5 gold or silver. To 3 daughters Eleanor, Ann and Mary, furniture, etc. and 3/4 of sheep, and £20 each in 7 years. To son William Thomas all real and personal estate, also executor. Wit: Benjamin Thomas, Anthony Pritchard, David John. THOMAS, WILLIAM. Charlestown.August 13, 1792. November 5, 1792.Provides for wife Mary. Executors to sell all lands. All remainder of estate to son William at 21.Executors: Wife Mary, father Benjamin Thomas, friend Jonathan Wells.Wit: Joseph Showalter, Isaac (x) Williams, David John. THOMAS, BENJAMIN. Charlestown.July 23, 1793. September 17, 1793.Provides for wife Elizabeth. After her decease, estate to be divided as follows. To grandson William Thomas, son of William, deceased, £10. To grandson Benjamin Thomas, son of Sampson. To son Sampson Thomas £30. To daughters Mary Graham and Anna Davis and Rebecca McVeagh £22.10 each. To daughter Elizabeth Thomas. To son Benjamin all remainder of estate.Executors: Wife Elizabeth, son BenjaminWit: Joseph Sowalter, James Hodge, David John. THOMAS, ELIZABETH. Charlestown.February 10, 1809. December 24, 1816.To dau. Rebecca McVey household goods & £100 in trust; at her December to be paid to her son Major McVey.To dau. Elizabeth Richardson £100. To gr.son Major McVey £10.To gr.son William Thomas £10, &c.To gr.dau. Elizabeth, dau. of son Benjamin Thomas, £15 when of age.Real est. to be sold and rem. div. among son Benjamin and 3 daus. Anna Davis, Rebecca McVey & Elizabeth Richardson.Executor: Son Benjamin Thomas.Wits: John Ralston, William Lewelin. There are a few others in Chester, but later in the 1800s. Bucks Co....(looking for Richards) Page 348. Elizabeth Thomas of Hilltown, Widow. October 4, 1784. Proved January 10, 1785. Son Levi Thomas, exr. "Relict of Richard Thomas." Dau. Martha and her son Jonathan.Wit: Benjamin Griffith, Jonathan Walton, Cadwd. Morris. Chester co....there was a Richard Thomasmentioned in 1715 and 1724 Uwchlan wills, and in 1720, Caln...just as witness. RICHARD, THOMAS. Tredyffins.May 18, 1739. May 29, 1739. B. 40.Bequeths £5 for repairing the fence about the graveyardPresbyterian Church in Tredyffrin. To my kinsman Rees John ofCharlestown £10 household goods. To children of friend JamesDavid of Whiteland, viz Mary, Margaret, Ann, Lettice, Dinah andSampson £E1 each. To friend George James El. To Morgan David £1-10. To friend John Rowland Sr £1-10. To friend Joel Evans now atNew Haven in New England £3. To Lettice wife of Saml. Morris El.To Wm. Thomas now living with John Jerman in Radnor £1. To MorrisJohn of Tredyffrin £1. To Jenkin David Shoemaker £1. To DavidThomas, shoemaker £1. Remainder to friends David Evans and John Parry who are also executors.Llewelly Parry, James David, Thomas Lloyd. THOMAS, RICHARD. Whiteland, yeoman.December 12, 1743/4. April 25, 1744. B. 158.Provides for wife Grace. To daughter Hannah £30 besides what she has already received. To daughter Mary £100 at 27 unless she marry sooner. To daughter Grace £100 at 27. To daughter Elizabeth £100 at 27. To my sister Mary in Wales and her children 10 shillings each if she come to this county and demand it. Remainder to son Richard also executor.Witnessed by Hugh Pugh, William Beale. PHILLIPS, JOHN. Tredyffrin. Labourer.November 25, 1746. June 3, 1748. C. 27.To John Davis of Plymouth and James Davis £50 for support of Baptist Congregation in Tredyffrin. To John Davis minister at Tredyffrin £10. To Thomas Jones minister at Tulpehocken £10. To Owen Thomas minister at the Welsh Tract £10. To Thomas Davis minister at Long Island £3. To cousin Esther, wife of Robert William, £10 and to her 2 daughters £5 each. To John Lewis, tanner, all interest due me. To Thomas Reece now at French Creek the interest due me. To John, son of Richard Thomas £4 interest due me. To David Thomas of Charlestown the money due from him . To Mary Lloyd £1.16. To Elizabeth Parry £2.10. To James Davis £5. To my relations in Wales, brothers John and Thomas, sisters Joan and Jennett and John and Grace, children of Griffith Phillips £60. Remainder to brother Owen Phillip who with James Davis are executors. Mentions land of Thomas Davis in Charlestown.Wit: Edward Jones, Jr., Samson Davis, Margaret Davis. THOMAS, RICHARD. Whiteland. Yeoman.September 23, 1754. November 7, 1754. C. 511.To eldest son Richard 1/2 of the tract of land whereon I live as described, also the right which my father left me of the land and money in Flintshire, Wales, one lott in Philadelphia when 21, he paying to his sister Lydia £100 when 25 and to his sister Hannah £100 at 25. To youngest son George the western 1/2 of my land as described when 21, hepaying to his sister Grace £100 at 25. Provision made for wife Phebe.Executrix: Wife Phebe.Wit: Samuel James, Randal Malin, John Todhunter, Henry Atherton. other mentions of Richard are in the 1800s -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.1/369 - Release Date: 6/19/2006

Hi Natalie - There are Scads of Thomas lines in the Chester/Delaware county area! That is what makes it so aggravating. There are a couple of Davids in my tree, too. My Thomases did not take David or Davis as their last names, we are all still Thomases. And they are not in the Berks Thomas line, either. But I have seen a lot of info on them online. Also - did you ever consider that maybe Nancy remarried David Davis and adopted David Thomas' children? Providence Township was in Chester County back in the 1700s - Chester County and Delaware County were one county - now it is part of Delaware County, but back then it was eventually either Upper and Lower, or Upper and Nether. (Hence the list is "Old" Chester!) Where did you get your info? I have record of a David Thomas in Philadelphia who was an executor of a will in 1717. What kind of record did you find and where did you find it? BTW we can take this off list if y'all think it isn't helping anyone, lol. Lynn On 6/20/06, Natalie Burrows <ndburrows@verizon.net> wrote: > > Lynn -- I, too, am interested in Thomases. What dates are you looking > for? > I have two possible Thomas families: one would be relatives (brothers, > etc.) > of the David (ap) Thomas who died in Philadephia county in 1717/1718, > leaving sons Thomas (kept the Thomas surname but had no children), Samson > David, Richard David and John David as well as daughters. These children > changed the surname to David/Davis. They most likely lived in the > Providence > area and probably came from Chester County before that. > The other Thomas family is that connected to Nancy Thomas who married > David Davis in late 1700's in either Berks or Northumberland County. She > died between 1830 and 1840 in what was then Mercer county. > Thanks for any connection that you may find to your own family! > Natalie > ndburrows@verizon.net > >