A suggestion of a way to handle this ethical question of "plagiarism", if you please? If you wish to be acknowledged for providing info, assistance, etc... Perhaps you could include, as a signature, just how you would like to have this acknowledgement appear. JFBailey www.baileywick.com -----Original Message----- From: pa-old-chester-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:pa-old-chester-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sandra Ferguson Sent: 28 September, 2006 07:26 To: Kim Spangrude; elijahf1@earthlink.net Cc: PA-OLD-CHESTER-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PaOldC] genealogical ethics Kim, those of us who have done lots of family research do not claim to 'own' dates and names found in extant records.....this isn't the issue. If folks would just 'lift' these from our work, we wouldn't have such a problem with it (although it sure would be nice to be recognized as the researcher whose work 'found' the data).... moreover, when we create a 'bio' on and ancestor as many of us do....it is MORE than simply a few names and dates - it is even more than a compilation OF those names and dates - we take those names and dates, plus a ton of background reading we've done, a lot of thought on the subject and we create a 'picture' in words...OUR words.... of that ancestor, or family, or county, or whathaveyou. THIS is what we most resent being lifted without our permission. When a person 'creates' something, be it a family bio, a painted picture, a photograph, etc, it is an extension of that person.......not the dates and names, not the tube of paint, not the camera, but what we 'create' using those tools. And, as the creator of the object, we have the right to say how our 'creation' is used, and where. This, perhaps may seem a fine line, but believe me, it's not to those of us who have experienced it...it's downright upsetting. So, I reckon we've said what there is to be said....I was hoping for a 'magic' trick someone had discovered to force others to remove our work from their files, but apparently no one has........and many of us are in the same boat ! It seems to be a pretty big boat to hold us all, and it's a comfort to know many others have experienced the same thing, and understand our feelings! S. >I totally agree with Sandra; I have a Master's Degree in Nursing, and >had to do a Thesis, so I thoroughly understand this issue and I totally >agree with Sandra. However, someone else on the subject said that it >was very important to them that they get the credit when providing factual info. >My date of birth is 08-28-1955. So if a newspaper or magazine used my >date of birth, shouldn't they give me as the source? Example "Kim >Spangrude had a beautiful crop of tomatoes this summer; she is 51 >years old, and has been gardening for 35 years. (source of age: Kim Spangrude)" I guess I am confused as to how far to take this. Again, I TOTALLY AGREE with Sandra and the situation she is in, and this is the 4th time I have said that. My question was a little different, so please, no scolding. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/457 - Release Date: 9/26/2006 To unsubscribe from this list, please send the one word message, unsubscribe, to pa-old-chester-request@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sandra, I wholeheartily (wholeheartedly?) agree with you. I've had things of mine lifted off the internet. There are 5 gedcoms (yes 5!) uploaded on the net with my personal information, too. And I didn't give the info to even one of those persons. One of my sisters is still fighting with a site that has her 2 previous marriages. And then people say they didn't put it up. Or it wasn't taken from anyone else. ha! When I was in academia, I had an article I was writing stolen from me (that took 2 years of a painful process before the student was reprimanded). To everyone else: To anyone who does this, it creates a lump in our throats to see things which are obviously stolen. It is frequently devastating. Don't wonder if you are giving correct quotes or think that since it was readily available you can just quote the original source. You can't. There is a LOT of time put into *analysis* and just basic research. And sometimes we get it wrong. We then have to spend endless and needless time tracking down people who've 1- taken it 2- quoted it inappropriately. I had a site several/many years ago with a huge gedcom on it. I credited Harrison Cassel for a good half of it and only had his research up because he asked me to do it for him in his failing health and he sadly passed away a few years later. The other things were mine, my analysis and my gas money, my belonging to various historical societies, the plane trips and frequent lonely nights at hotels. And the long process of putting it in, person by person, checking all the sources. If you put in a source, also put in the transcriber of the source and if you ever decide to put it on the internet, think again. It's your family, sure, but not your work. all the best, Michel PS, I also add a few choice errors in my things just to make sure, so I can track it down.

Kim, those of us who have done lots of family research do not claim to 'own' dates and names found in extant records.....this isn't the issue. If folks would just 'lift' these from our work, we wouldn't have such a problem with it (although it sure would be nice to be recognized as the researcher whose work 'found' the data).... moreover, when we create a 'bio' on and ancestor as many of us do....it is MORE than simply a few names and dates - it is even more than a compilation OF those names and dates - we take those names and dates, plus a ton of background reading we've done, a lot of thought on the subject and we create a 'picture' in words...OUR words.... of that ancestor, or family, or county, or whathaveyou. THIS is what we most resent being lifted without our permission. When a person 'creates' something, be it a family bio, a painted picture, a photograph, etc, it is an extension of that person.......not the dates and names, not the tube of paint, not the camera, but what we 'create' using those tools. And, as the creator of the object, we have the right to say how our 'creation' is used, and where. This, perhaps may seem a fine line, but believe me, it's not to those of us who have experienced it...it's downright upsetting. So, I reckon we've said what there is to be said....I was hoping for a 'magic' trick someone had discovered to force others to remove our work from their files, but apparently no one has........and many of us are in the same boat ! It seems to be a pretty big boat to hold us all, and it's a comfort to know many others have experienced the same thing, and understand our feelings! S. >I totally agree with Sandra; I have a Master's Degree in Nursing, and had >to do a Thesis, so I thoroughly understand this issue and I totally agree >with Sandra. However, someone else on the subject said that it was very >important to them that they get the credit when providing factual info. >My date of birth is 08-28-1955. So if a newspaper or magazine used my >date of birth, shouldn't they give me as the source? Example "Kim >Spangrude had a beautiful crop of tomatoes this summer; she is 51 years >old, and has been gardening for 35 years. (source of age: Kim Spangrude)" I guess I am confused as to how far to take this. Again, I TOTALLY AGREE with Sandra and the situation she is in, and this is the 4th time I have said that. My question was a little different, so please, no scolding. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/457 - Release Date: 9/26/2006

I totally agree with Sandra; I have a Master's Degree in Nursing, and had to do a Thesis, so I thoroughly understand this issue and I totally agree with Sandra. However, someone else on the subject said that it was very important to them that they get the credit when providing factual info. My date of birth is 08-28-1955. So if a newspaper or magazine used my date of birth, shouldn't they give me as the source? Example "Kim Spangrude had a beautiful crop of tomatoes this summer; she is 51 years old, and has been gardening for 35 years. (source of age: Kim Spangrude)" I guess I am confused as to how far to take this. Again, I TOTALLY AGREE with Sandra and the situation she is in, and this is the 4th time I have said that. My question was a little different, so please, no scolding. On Sep 27, 2006, at 10:55 PM, Anna B wrote: > Plagiarism is NOT flattery. It is stealing. > To unsubscribe from this list, please send the one word message, > unsubscribe, to > pa-old-chester-request@rootsweb.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

My comments were not concerning family data....names and dates...although, in my book ANYONE who does original research deserves credit for doing so!!!! I've sure done enough to know the tremendous amount of time, thought and work involved and those who do this have earned the right to say how and where their work is used......... I've 'been there and done that' and imagine anyone who has done much research will sure agree.....however, in this case, what I was complaining about was the wholesale 'lifting' of a history I'd written about the establishment of early settlements in an Ohio county, the importance of the river that creates it's boundary, it's place in westward expansion, etc. Believe me, ANYONE who has had their original writings (their "creative, personal work") sent to them as the work of another, will sure understand how ticked off this makes you Sandra " I guess I can understand Sandra's concerns about others using her writings and not giving her credit for it. I think the way to try to avoid that is to always add the note "this cannot be reproduced or used without express permission from the author", and then to contact the person and ask them why they did not get permission as Sandra did. But I don't understand why it is so important that credit goes to whoever did the research, although I will respect that feeling. When I find bits and pieces about my family, of course I put down the source, but the bits and pieces are fact - like dates of birth and dates of death - not some person's creative, personal work. I feel like if I find a piece of info on my family that other relatives could use, it belongs to them also because it is their ancestor also. I eagerly share it with whomever wants it." -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/457 - Release Date: 9/26/2006

Plagiarism is NOT flattery. It is stealing.

Sandra, All ethics, not only in genealogy, dictates (to ethical persons) that credit be given to the originator(s) of material simply copied word for word from one source/manuscript/article into another. I think what you wrote to that person was exactly correct -- though perhaps a bit too mild. Anna B

Sandra: Who is Rich Moore, listed with tax list? Is he the Richard Moore, s/o John & Sarah (Cuertin) Moore, -- i.e., Richard Moore of PA migrated to Wrightsborough, GA? I have done a lot of research from time-to-time (1998 -to date) on this family, PA & elsewhere. My 5G-Grandfather, James Joseph Mendenhall & 2nd wife, Hannah (Thomas) Mendenhall & their son Marmaduke as well as his son, Phineas with first wife, Martha Giffith, [she was b. in Wales to John & Martha (Morgan) Griffith], also migrated to Wrightsborough, GA, where James J. Mendenhall died & is buried [I have written about Hannah (Thomas) Mendenhall before, as she is the grand-daughter of Richard Ap Thomas, who came to America with son Richard, Jr. on the Morning Star. I have long believed that a descendent of John & Jane (Cuertin) Moore, might be a ancestor of my James Moore, Sr. b. NC??>E TN>Preble County, OH for many researchers believe that my Moores, were dosowned Quakers and migrated south, marrying Quaker daughters.. Descendants of James Moore, Sr. are now researching descendants that came to the Miami River Valley of OH & IN from the Wrightsborough group. My son & I have long been interested in some of these families for they seemed to settle in locations in both Wayne County & Henry County, IN in the 1800s; and now others, who follow Samuel & Alice (Mendenhall) Moore, s/o of James Moore, Sr. have noted such a relationship --Alice was d/o of Mordecia Mendenhall, Jr. My G-Grandmother was Elvira Mendenhall, b. Jamestown, NC>IN, where she married Hiram C. Moore, b, OH>IN>IA, grandson of James Moore, Sr (listed in this parragraph). Violet Moore Guy 09/27/2006. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra Ferguson" <ferg@ntelos.net> To: <pa-old-chester-l@rootsweb.com> Cc: "cyndie eckman" <cyndiee@tampabay.rr.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: [PaOldC] 1729 Bradford twp tax rate > Abia Taylor > Richard Woodward > Richard Woodward > Joseph Townsend > Geo Stroud > Abraham Marshall > Samuel Scot > Richard Buffington > Thomas Buffington > Stephen Harlan > George Harlan > John Cope > John Collier > Abraham Davis > Thomas Arnold > Edward Clayton > George Martin > John Buffington > Jeremiah Dean > Thomas Price > Jacob Taylor > Wm Bennet > Robert Jefferies > Robert Jefferies Jr > James Jefferies > Peter Collins > James McMath > Samuel Grubb > Mary Marshal > Jeffery Martin > Henry Heastings > Thomas Thornbury > John Davis > Daniel Davis > Wm Reece > George Jefferies > Joseph Sheen > George Baily > James Sheward > Thos Grubb > Tho Edmonds > Robt Thornton > Henry Willis > William McMath > freemen > George Mendenhall > Thomas Morrison > John Lumbard > Peter Lowdon XXXXX > Elias Ring > Walter Thornbury X XXXXX > Peter Grubb > John Mathews > Michael Maguire > > Robt Tackaberry > Rich Moore > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/457 - Release Date: 9/26/2006 > > To unsubscribe from this list, please send the one word message, unsubscribe, to > pa-old-chester-request@rootsweb.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

In a message dated 9/27/2006 9:08:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, richardhuey@comcast.net writes: Surely you have done some original research resulting in extending a family line which now is on the Internet in 10 or 10,000 sites with no indication of the source. Richard you are correct. But the most upsetting aspect of this is the frequent garbling of information so that it appears to be your work, but is now full of glaring errors. Millie Starr

> I guess I can understand Sandra's concerns about others using her > writings and not giving her credit for it. I think the way to try to > avoid that is to always add the note "this cannot be reproduced or > used without express permission from the author", and then to contact > the person and ask them why they did not get permission as Sandra did. > But I don't understand why it is so important that credit goes to > whoever did the research, although I will respect that feeling. When > I find bits and pieces about my family, of course I put down the > source, but the bits and pieces are fact - like dates of birth and > dates of death - not some person's creative, personal work. I feel > like if I find a piece of info on my family that other relatives could > use, it belongs to them also because it is their ancestor also. I > eagerly share it with whomever wants it. Kim Townsend Spangrude Tim Robinson wrote: > we have PLENTY of folks who just > want YOU / US to do all their searching for them, and then credit > themselve's for putting it all together. ie - all those queries that > say > "tell me all you have on such and such" I have myself backed away > from these questions, and ask for something specific instead.

Abia Taylor Richard Woodward Richard Woodward Joseph Townsend Geo Stroud Abraham Marshall Samuel Scot Richard Buffington Thomas Buffington Stephen Harlan George Harlan John Cope John Collier Abraham Davis Thomas Arnold Edward Clayton George Martin John Buffington Jeremiah Dean Thomas Price Jacob Taylor Wm Bennet Robert Jefferies Robert Jefferies Jr James Jefferies Peter Collins James McMath Samuel Grubb Mary Marshal Jeffery Martin Henry Heastings Thomas Thornbury John Davis Daniel Davis Wm Reece George Jefferies Joseph Sheen George Baily James Sheward Thos Grubb Tho Edmonds Robt Thornton Henry Willis William McMath freemen George Mendenhall Thomas Morrison John Lumbard Peter Lowdon XXXXX Elias Ring Walter Thornbury X XXXXX Peter Grubb John Mathews Michael Maguire Robt Tackaberry Rich Moore -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/457 - Release Date: 9/26/2006

In the academic world we are continually faced with plagerism. The Internet has made grabbing someone else's words so easy. Lazy people don't take the time to note where they found the information let alone cite the source when they pass it on. Surely you have done some original research resulting in extending a family line which now is on the Internet in 10 or 10,000 sites with no indication of the source. You produce so much information...I bet you have been quoted--without citation--a thousand times. I think you just have to accept the plagerism as flattery.... -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Sandra Ferguson" <ferg@ntelos.net> > This doesn't concern Chester County, per se, but is a question on > genealogical "ethics". I have been sent a bunch of data from another > researcher (and, I assume this is sent to others, too, and probably > 'published' on the web), and within the data is a section NOT on dates and > places, but about the geography and history of the area.....something I > wrote several years ago - word for word. There is, of course, no mention > of where she found this, and it's inclusion into her files certainly makes > it appear that it is her own 'work'. This is REALLY irksome, and I wrote > her, asking that if she uses MY work and MY words, she mention MY > name.....I've not heard from her, of course, but wonder how others of you > might have handled similar experiences you've had in the past. > > Sandra > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/457 - Release Date: 9/26/2006 > > To unsubscribe from this list, please send the one word message, unsubscribe, > to > pa-old-chester-request@rootsweb.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Unfortunately, the fact is that more and more people are searching out other peoples genealogy work, and [like you say] are using it to fill out their own family forms, and not giving a hint of where it came from, or who really did the leg work in the first place. And what seems to be the "in thing" these days, especially in our schools and college's, is the copying of others work, just to get a good grade. Its no wonder that a good percentage of young people graduating can't read or work numbers. So it just trickles down to what we are talking about, and we have PLENTY of folks who just want YOU / US to do all their searching for them, and then credit themselve's for putting it all together. ie - all those queries that say "tell me all you have on such and such" I have myself backed away from these questions, and ask for something specific instead. Hopefully one day it will all get better...!!!! ??? Tim R. ***************************** Subject: [PaOldC] off the subject......sort of This doesn't concern Chester County, per se, but is a question on genealogical "ethics". I have been sent a bunch of data from another researcher (and, I assume this is sent to others, too, and probably 'published' on the web), and within the data is a section NOT on dates and places, but about the geography and history of the area.....something I wrote several years ago - word for word. There is, of course, no mention of where she found this, and it's inclusion into her files certainly makes it appear that it is her own 'work'. This is REALLY irksome, and I wrote her, asking that if she uses MY work and MY words, she mention MY name.....I've not heard from her, of course, but wonder how others of you might have handled similar experiences you've had in the past. Sandra To unsubscribe from this list, please send the one word message, unsubscribe, to pa-old-chester-request@rootsweb.com

Hello - Who is JAMES MAURHEAD??, in 1721 he performed the marriage of the daughter of Randal Malin, Quaker. contrary to law, and a warrant was issued May 6, 1721 by Henry Pierce, Esq. directed to the Constable of Chester to arrest MAURHEAD....... acc. to Futhey & Cope pp. 648....... I have learned that KATHARINE MALIN married GEORGE TATE Mar. 29, 1721, and she was dis. by the Friends on April 26, 1721 for this, apparently TATE was not a Quaker..... it appears that MAURHEAD was the Minister who married KATHARINE and GEORGE, and I'd like to find out what denomination, and where, MAURHEAD was Minister of........ I appreciate any info re. MAURHEAD, and thank you for any assistance, sincerely, Sally

This doesn't concern Chester County, per se, but is a question on genealogical "ethics". I have been sent a bunch of data from another researcher (and, I assume this is sent to others, too, and probably 'published' on the web), and within the data is a section NOT on dates and places, but about the geography and history of the area.....something I wrote several years ago - word for word. There is, of course, no mention of where she found this, and it's inclusion into her files certainly makes it appear that it is her own 'work'. This is REALLY irksome, and I wrote her, asking that if she uses MY work and MY words, she mention MY name.....I've not heard from her, of course, but wonder how others of you might have handled similar experiences you've had in the past. Sandra -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/457 - Release Date: 9/26/2006

Sandra: Plagiarism is using others’ ideas and words without clearly acknowledging the source of that information. Copyright infringement is copying or publishing someone else's entire exact work. This seems to be what is happening here - your work is being infringed. Fair Use could apply here, which means publishing part of a copyright protected work for educational or research purposes, if they did not use all of the work or if publishing it does not 'degrade' the copyright. If you copyrighted the work that's been infringed with the US Copyright Office more than 90 days prior to the infringement then you can prove it's yours and file suit. However, for most of us when we publish on the web, we don't do the official copyrighting and it becomes difficult if not impossible to prove we are the original copyright holder. Bottom line: if you don't want people to infringe, either officially copyright or don't publish on the web. Just too many people out there with no manners and no understanding that they should not be publishing someone else's work without permission. Kathi Jones-Hudson MD Tombstone Transcription Project Manager http://www.rootsweb.com/~cemetery/maryland/maryland.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Sandra: Yes that really irks me too. I had someone write and want copies of some of my files for her Master's thesis. I sent many copies of public records (which I know ARE public and I don't own them)! But I also sent genealogy trees of this person she was writting about. Research that I had done. Never heard from her again. I wrote and wrote and politely asked for reimbursement of my cost of copies and postage which was about $18. Nothing. Later I happened to be talking to another family member and genealogist and college professor and found out she wrote the thesis and got her Masters and did not give any mention of my assistance. I then wrote again and said I knew she had written the paper. And I thought that wasn't the way someone with a Master's degree should act. Never heard boo, so I dropped the subject. I guess there isn't anything you can do when someone is so dumb even with a Master's degree!! Iris

Apparently there were 'relatives' elsewhere, too... Berks Co.... SOUDER, JOHN, Cumru.January 2, 1796.Adm. to Jacob SOUDER, a brother. Chester Co; SOUDER, HENRY. East Whiteland.May 8, 1794. November 16, 1811.To son-in-law Henry Ruth the plantation where I now dwell, containing 95 acres; also another tract containing 10 acres, he the said Ruth performing all things agreeable to a contract between the said Henry & myself, dated 24th of February 1794. Rem. of estate to be sold and divided as follows: To oldest son Jacob £50 over & above the rest; and £25 to Mathew Pennypacker for use of the poor of Mennonite Church in Charlestown. Rem. to sons & daus. Jacob, Henry, Magdelane, Elizabeth, Mary, Esther, Susanna & Barbara in equal shares. Executor: Son Jacob Souder. Codicil: December 13, 1805, states that son Jacob is December'd., and names son-in-law Christian Fisher, Exr. Wits: Joseph Kurtz, Joshua Evans.The inventory mentions charges against Jacob Souder, £126, Henry Souder £150, Magdalen Wiremun, Elizabeth Mim and Mary Ruth £52 each and Susan Fisher £54-9-5. Total inventory £791-13-10. Cumberland Co; SOUDER, JACOB, farmer, Frankford. March 5, 1812. July 13, 1812.Wife Catherine.Daus. Caty and Polly.Dau. Elizabeth and her children, viz., Joseph Jumper, Junr., Elizabeth Jumper and John Jumper.Exs.: Son in law John Leport and William Lehman.Wit.: Martin George, Junr., William Lindsay. H. 114. Lancaster Co May 2, 1777 May 20, 1777BEISTEL, ANDREASWife. Christiana Beistel. (Names and number of children not stated.) Ex. Christopher Wegman and Jacob Souder. Lebanon Twp. --- August 3, 1737SOUDER, JACOBN.B. This is a German will - has not been copied on the records and the original lost. March 12, 1803 May 7, 1803ROHRER, JACOBWife. Feronica Rohrer. Children: John, Elizabeth wife of Jacob Souder,Jacob, Mary wife of Christian Huber. Bro.: John Rohrer.Ex. Christian and (bro.) John Rohrer. Lampeter Twp. Mont. Co; . November 15, 1810. Jacob Keesler, adm. SOUDER, JACOB. Franconia. November 16, 1810. Benjamin Souder, Christian Souder. Phil. Co; FELTEN, THOMAS. N. Liberties. City of Phila. Bricklayer.March 31, 1782. February 13, 1794. X.25.Wife: Mary. Children: Sarah [Wife of Jacob Souder], George Washington, Mary, Thomas, James. Grandchildren: Thomas Mifflin Souder [Son of Daughter Sarah]. Exec: Wife Mary Felten, Son-in-Law Jacob Souder, William Masters. Wit: John Reed, Benjamin Allison. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date: 9/22/2006

Mabel.......Whoever wrote the estate file info for Jacob SOUDERS showed his 7 children. (That doesn't happen very often!). http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/pa/chester/wills/wills1804-5.txt<http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/pa/chester/wills/wills1804-5.txt> shows what is online for him. This is what is there: SOUDERS, JACOB. West Whiteland. November 13, 1805. Eve and Henry Souders, Administrators. Left widow Eve and seven children - Barbara m. Jacob ...; Jacob; Henry; Jacob; Philip; John; Mary and Samuel. 180? acres in W. Whiteland. (They have 8 children and 2 Jacobs!) I don't have any info on the son Philip. Have you checked the Chester County Archives to see if there is an estate or will for him? If not there, he must have moved to another area..... These SOUDERs are an elusive bunch! I still am not sure if Barbara SOUDERS is the one who married Jacob HIGH Jr.......they went to Lancaster Co and must have died there. Thank you for the information about the Mary Ann SOUDERs burial at Brownback. If she is the only one, that is a relief! Happy hunting........ Sounds like a possible for you. Diana in AL "Mabel Pyle" <mpyle@cybernet1.com<mailto:mpyle@cybernet1.com>> wrote: Subject: Re: [PaOldC] SOUDERS, Honeybrook, Whiteland, Uwchlan area On September 1st Diana from AL asked if anyone was researching SOUDER/SOUDERS/SAUTER of Honeybrook/Uwchlan/W Whiteland area. I did not reply because I had no information to add to what she had written. Diane was asking if anyone knew anything about Jacob SOUDERS of W. Whiteland who died in 1805 and his wife EVE who died in 1820. Their daughter Barbara is shown as the wife of Jacob HYE and she wondered if Barbara was the same as Barbara, wife of Jacob HIGH, Jr. of E. Nantmeal. Eve SOUDERS will mentions 6 children but Diana mentioned that when Jacob died he left his widow EVE and 7 children. The one named with Jacob and not with Eve is Samuel. I have been trying to connect my husband's gr gr grandfather Samuel SOUDERS (born about 1811) to Philip SOUDERS, one of the sons of Jacob and Eve. They are listed together in the 1840 W. Whiteland census but by 1850 Samuel is in Montgomery County and I can't find Philip. When I saw the name Samuel on the list of Jacob and Eve's children it gave me hope that I may be on the right track I had not seen that name connected with this family before. Diana, were the children listed in the intestate file for Jacob? I have a list of gravestone inscriptions from Brownback's Cemetery from the 1956 issues of the "National Genealogical Society Quarterly" but only one SOUDERS is listed on that - Mary Ann, w. of Jacob Souders, b. 17 Sept. 1839; d. 24 Feb. 1883. I'm sorry I can't be of help to you, Diana, but thank you for the clue about the name Samuel. Mabel in MT

Woops! That got away from me. http://www.mendenhall.org/ Mendenhall Family Association Be sure to go into the GedCom powered by TNG and find your ancestors! The Martin Family are in this Gedcom; and some of them migrated on to North Carolina. 1999 Reunion Presentations: a.. "Joane Stroud: Dispelling the Myth of our Matriarch's Roots" by Dan McEver b.. "Stories of the Mendenhalls From England" by Allen Singleton (in PDF format) c.. "Mendenhall Migration, 500 AD-2000 AD" by Dean Leonard My husband, son, a granddaughter and I were at the 1999 MFA Reunion in North Carolina. Violet Moore Guy 09/27/2006 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Violet Guy" <guyj@starpower.net> To: <Erayl@aol.com>; <pa-old-chester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 11:48 PM Subject: Re: [PaOldC] Margery Mindenhall et al. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sandra Ferguson" <ferg@ntelos.net> > To: <Erayl@aol.com>; <pa-old-chester@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 7:34 AM > Subject: [PaOldC] Margery Mindenhall et al. > > > > I reckon the answer is 'yes' .......although you've got Margery's > birth > > time about a generation off and a few other errors. > > Margery Mendenhall, b 1655, m 30 Jan 1675, Thomas Martin, at > Reading > > and Warboro Meeting. Margery was the child of Thomas and Joan Strode (or > > Stroad), both of whom were born in Marridge Hill, Parish > Ramsbury,Wistshire. > > Her parents are believed to be Wm Strode and Joanna Barnard Strode. > Thomas > > Mendenhall's father was Francis Mendenhall, but his mother is not known. > > Francis was buried 7 Nov 1673, in Little Bedwin, County Wiltshire, > England. > > (this is from THE MENDENHALL-NEWLIN ALLIANCE, by Able. > > Futhey and Cope list Lydia Buffington as having married George Martin, > > but not which wife was the mother. His first wife was Ann, living in > > 1695...a wife Francis, widow of John Grubb, living in 1712, and his widow, > > Alice Palmer, survived him. > > Thomas Woodward, m. 25th 10m 1704, at Concord Meeting, Rachel Martin, dau > of > > Thomas and Margery Mendenhall Martin. His father was Richard Woodward, b > > ca 1636, probably in Cheshire, England and died 7 oct 1706, > > Middletown...married to Jane NAYLE, not Petty,,,, it is believed that > > Richard was the son of Edward Woodward, of Acton Parish,Cheshire, who was > > the progenitor of the line of Woodwards in Chester....however, the > Register > > of Acton Parish is somewhat confusing, so Edward as father of our 'clan' > of > > Woodwards, is subject to verification. > > > Sandra > > > > > > "Was Margery Mendenhall a daughter or Thomas Mendenhall b. ab 1630 > > Wiltshire, England, and Joan Stround? They had a daughter named Margery, > of > > whom I have no other info. > > Was Lydia Buffington a daughter of Richard Buffington b. abt 1654 England > > and one of his three wives? If so, which of the three was her mother? I > only > > have the name of one -- Phoebe Grubb (dau. of John Grubb ad Frances Vane). > > Thomas Woodward, husband of Rachel Martin, was the son of Richard Woodward > > and Jane Petty. I have no other info on Thomas. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date: 9/22/2006 > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, please send the one word message, > unsubscribe, to > > pa-old-chester-request@rootsweb.com > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > To unsubscribe from this list, please send the one word message, unsubscribe, to > pa-old-chester-request@rootsweb.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >