I'm afraid the only records in that timeframe that would contain a birth would be church records, and without knowing the religious faith, it's goinna be hard to do. You might want to go through the 1790 census and see who you can find with this surname, any spelling you can come up with....Maria won't be enumerated by name, but by sex and age, in the household of her father...(as an infant it's possible that she wouldn't even be included, depending on the month of her birth and the month the census was taken), so I'd just look for any household with that surname....this would give you some possible male names to work on. The URL for the Chester Census are located on the Chester site, under Chester Census Records. I looked at the will CD and see several of that surname spelling, somewhat earlier...An Alex McKee in W. Nottingham in the late 1730s; a John McKee in Birmingham in the 1750s, and this actual wills(actually adm. papers rather than a wills); MC KEE, JAMES.. May 26, 1762. E. Nottingham.. Adm. to Jane McKee. MC KEE, JAMES. October 1, 1764. W. Nantmeal. Adm. to Joseph McKee. An Andrew McKee in Birmingham 1774 ; Jane Mckee in Tredyffrin 1781 ; 1784 David Mckee in Birmingham....and, others, but no mention of a Maria. What I find strange is the name Heinrich, a pretty obviously Germanic given name, with the surname McKee, which is definitely Scottish....I wonder if the McKee could have been the Americanization of a more Germanic name. Maria, too, is Germanic, rather than Scottish or English, when the name would more probably have been Mary. IThe Evangelical church also looks German, but all the McKee names in Chester wills are definitely English/Scottish sounding.....So, this is an interesting puzzle. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gwen" <qnp@airmail.net> To: <PA-OLD-CHESTER@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:20 AM Subject: [PaOldC] Fw: Search for Maria McKee or variations of name > > I am seeking information on Maria Mckee or any variation of these names. A > brief bio was written by a family member and published in a county history > stating that she was born 1789 in Chester Co. PA. What records are > available for that time period that might help determine her parents? I > have no clue as to what religion she might have practiced other than the > fact that she was married in an Evangelical church and records of some of > her children births are recorded in churches of this denomination. > > I have a record of her from the time she married March 27 1807 in Lebanon > Co., PA but have never been able to find her parents or siblings. > > A witness to her marriage in 1807 was Heinrich McKee and, on 10 Jun 1813 > at Salem Evangelical & Reformed Church of Harrisburg, we find the marriage > of a Heinrich McKee to Eva Rudy. Eva was the widow of John Jonas Rudy, > her maiden name being Koch. Eva was born in the 1765/83 time range and, > presuming Heinrich was of the same age, he could be a brother to Maria > > Any help appreciated. > > Gwen in far away Texas > To unsubscribe from this list, please send the one word message, > unsubscribe, to > pa-old-chester-request@rootsweb.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.11/460 - Release Date: 10/1/2006 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.11/460 - Release Date: 10/1/2006

In a message dated 10/2/2006 1:57:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, gwenbj@seanet.com writes: : I could not open any of the deeds that you have posted on Rootsweb. Do they open for you? They doubled, did you try only the http to txt part? Eliz http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/pa/chester/land/hayeslandus.txt Now for your news from Lancaster Pa, have you all heard that there was a shooting at an Amish School? Maybe three miles from the Chester Co border, 6 dead at least all females. The shooter either sent the boys away or allowed them to excape. Now back to list business Eliz

Heinrich might also be a Bohemian name (now western Czech Republic) and McKee may have been anglicized from Mache. Check out another Heinrich Mache, a scientist from Prague in the early 20th century. http://www.aeiou.at/aeiou.encyclop.m/m005095.htm; internal&action=_setlanguage.action?LANGUAGE=en Kim On Oct 2, 2006, at 12:32 PM, Sandra Ferguson wrote: > I'm afraid the only records in that timeframe that would contain a > birth > would be church records, and without knowing the religious faith, it's > goinna be hard to do. You might want to go through the 1790 census > and > see who you can find with this surname, any spelling you can come up > with....Maria won't be enumerated by name, but by sex and age, in the > household of her father...(as an infant it's possible that she > wouldn't even > be included, depending on the month of her birth and the month the > census > was taken), so I'd just look for any household with that > surname....this > would give you some possible male names to work on. The URL for the > Chester Census are located on the Chester site, under Chester Census > Records. > I looked at the will CD and see several of that surname spelling, > somewhat earlier...An Alex McKee in W. Nottingham in the late 1730s; > a > John McKee in Birmingham in the 1750s, and this actual wills(actually > adm. > papers rather than a wills); > > MC KEE, JAMES.. May 26, 1762. E. Nottingham.. Adm. to Jane McKee. > > MC KEE, JAMES. October 1, 1764. W. Nantmeal. Adm. to Joseph McKee. > > An Andrew McKee in Birmingham 1774 ; Jane Mckee in Tredyffrin 1781 ; > 1784 > David Mckee in Birmingham....and, others, but no mention of a Maria. > > What I find strange is the name Heinrich, a pretty obviously Germanic > given name, with the surname McKee, which is definitely Scottish....I > wonder > if the McKee could have been the Americanization of a more Germanic > name. > Maria, too, is Germanic, rather than Scottish or English, when the name > would more probably have been Mary. IThe Evangelical church also looks > German, but all the McKee names in Chester wills are definitely > English/Scottish sounding.....So, this is an interesting puzzle. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gwen" <qnp@airmail.net> > To: <PA-OLD-CHESTER@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:20 AM > Subject: [PaOldC] Fw: Search for Maria McKee or variations of name > > >> >> I am seeking information on Maria Mckee or any variation of these >> names. A >> brief bio was written by a family member and published in a county >> history >> stating that she was born 1789 in Chester Co. PA. What records are >> available for that time period that might help determine her parents? >> I >> have no clue as to what religion she might have practiced other than >> the >> fact that she was married in an Evangelical church and records of >> some of >> her children births are recorded in churches of this denomination. >> >> I have a record of her from the time she married March 27 1807 in >> Lebanon >> Co., PA but have never been able to find her parents or siblings. >> >> A witness to her marriage in 1807 was Heinrich McKee and, on 10 Jun >> 1813 >> at Salem Evangelical & Reformed Church of Harrisburg, we find the >> marriage >> of a Heinrich McKee to Eva Rudy. Eva was the widow of John Jonas >> Rudy, >> her maiden name being Koch. Eva was born in the 1765/83 time range >> and, >> presuming Heinrich was of the same age, he could be a brother to Maria >> >> Any help appreciated. >> >> Gwen in far away Texas >> To unsubscribe from this list, please send the one word message, >> unsubscribe, to >> pa-old-chester-request@rootsweb.com >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.11/460 - Release Date: >> 10/1/2006 >> >> > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.11/460 - Release Date: > 10/1/2006 > > To unsubscribe from this list, please send the one word message, > unsubscribe, to > pa-old-chester-request@rootsweb.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I am seeking information on Maria Mckee or any variation of these names. A brief bio was written by a family member and published in a county history stating that she was born 1789 in Chester Co. PA. What records are available for that time period that might help determine her parents? I have no clue as to what religion she might have practiced other than the fact that she was married in an Evangelical church and records of some of her children births are recorded in churches of this denomination. I have a record of her from the time she married March 27 1807 in Lebanon Co., PA but have never been able to find her parents or siblings. A witness to her marriage in 1807 was Heinrich McKee and, on 10 Jun 1813 at Salem Evangelical & Reformed Church of Harrisburg, we find the marriage of a Heinrich McKee to Eva Rudy. Eva was the widow of John Jonas Rudy, her maiden name being Koch. Eva was born in the 1765/83 time range and, presuming Heinrich was of the same age, he could be a brother to Maria Any help appreciated. Gwen in far away Texas

Try Susannah.

Hi Diana: I could not open any of the deeds that you have posted on Rootsweb. Do they open for you? Futhey and Cope's History of Chester County I have the article on the Cromwell Pearce family [p.676] that said that "He married Margaret, dau of John and Margaret Boggs, who owned a large tract of land in Willistown adjoining the Wayne estate. Her parents were members of the Presbyterian Church, and several of their sons served as soldiers in the war of the Revolution..." === Other records from Futhey and Cope are: [p.220] 1753 tax John BOGS Willistown 1774 land owners John BOGGS Willistown [p.250] Upper Octorara Presb. Church in Sadsbury Twp. surnames inc. in the congregation: BOGGS [p.252] Doe Run Presb. Church in East Fallowfield Twp. Francis Boggs 1740. === Gwen Boyer Bjorkman gwenbj@seanet.com -----Original Message----- From: pa-old-chester-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:pa-old-chester-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Diana Quinones Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 12:06 AM To: pa-old-chester Subject: Re: [PaOldC] 1729 East Town tax list Thank you Sandra for posting these tax lists..... The 1729 one of East Town is interesting because my gr4 ancestor, Frederick LANDIS (spelled LANDUS in the deed), bought the land of Francis WAYNE (WAIN on the tax list), dec'd, in a sheriff's sale of his siezed property in 1773, which had been ordered by the court. This purchase marked the first appearance in Chester Co of my LANDIS line. It seems a shame that property held in the Wayne family for over 40 years was ordered to be sold by the sheriff for an 80 pound debt to an Evan THOMAS! I had posted the deed in the land section of the board..... Frederick paid £99.6.11 for the 153+ acres of the WAYNE property in East Town bordering on Tredyffrin in the sheriff's sale. Inflation must have set in, because in 1802 Frederick paid £71.3 for 6+ acres to PENNINGTONs for an additional small piece of property next to his land! http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/pa/chester/land/hayeslandus.txt<http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usg enweb/pa/chester/land/hayeslandus.txt> http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/pa/chester/land/penningtonlandis.txt<http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pu b/usgenweb/pa/chester/land/penningtonlandis.txt> Diana in AL LANDIS, HIGH and SAVAGE descendent ----- Original Message ----- From: Sandra Ferguson<mailto:ferg@ntelos.net> To: pa-old-chester-l@rootsweb.com<mailto:pa-old-chester-l@rootsweb.com> Cc: cyndie eckman<mailto:cyndiee@tampabay.rr.com> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 3:06 PM Subject: [PaOldC] 1729 East Town tax rate Anthony Wain ffrancis Wain

Thank you Sandra for posting these tax lists..... The 1729 one of East Town is interesting because my gr4 ancestor, Frederick LANDIS (spelled LANDUS in the deed), bought the land of Francis WAYNE(WAIN on the tax list), dec'd, in a sheriff's sale of his siezed property in 1773, which had been ordered by the court. This purchase marked the first appearance in Chester Co of my LANDIS line. It seems a shame that property held in the Wayne family for over 40 years was ordered to be sold by the sheriff for an 80 pound debt to an Evan THOMAS! I had posted the deed in the land section of the board..... Frederick paid £99.6.11 for the 153+ acres of the WAYNE property in East Town bordering on Tredyffrin in the sheriff's sale. Inflation must have set in, because in 1802 Frederick paid £71.3 for 6+ acres to PENNINGTONs for an additional small piece of property next to his land! http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/pa/chester/land/hayeslandus.txt<http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/pa/chester/land/hayeslandus.txt> http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/pa/chester/land/penningtonlandis.txt<http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/pa/chester/land/penningtonlandis.txt> Diana in AL LANDIS, HIGH and SAVAGE descendent ----- Original Message ----- From: Sandra Ferguson<mailto:ferg@ntelos.net> To: pa-old-chester-l@rootsweb.com<mailto:pa-old-chester-l@rootsweb.com> Cc: cyndie eckman<mailto:cyndiee@tampabay.rr.com> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 3:06 PM Subject: [PaOldC] 1729 East Town tax rate Anthony Wain ffrancis Wain

Hello, does anyone know what the name "Zaney" or "Zana" is short for? I am researching John and Zaney Townsend. John Townsend's father or grandfather may have been from Chester, Pa. Kim

I am reposting my current research project and brickwall. James CLINTON b. 11 Aug 1761 New London Twnship, Chester Co., PA Removed with father (assume whole family) to SC in 1769. Fought in RW out of SC, have seen his RW Pension file. Married Anne ARMSTRONG, 15 Mar 1787 York Dist. SC Lived remainder of adult life in Caldwell (now Crittenden) Co., KY. ..d. 02 Mar 1847, bur. Piney Fork Cumberland Presby Church Cemetery, near Marion, KY. DAR placed new stone there. He was always a Presbyterian that we know of, so assume that his ancestral line was of that Scots-Irish migration that came over early 1750s. There is an Archibald CLINTON that we think could be his grandfather...this said Archibald had a son James (LWT records), who we "assume" is the line between Archibald and James. What would clinch this for all the CLINTON researchers who have worked on this for years, would be if we could find a birth record for our James 1761, which would show his birth parent's names. There is record of his father in his RW pension file, but his given name is not there. So, there it is, folks......any help is "greatly" appreciated! thanks, Janice

Anthony Wain William Miller Edward David Ann Thomas, widdow Benjamin Hugh Peter Elliot Evan Ellis Morgan Hugh Owen Hugh Richard George Humphry Ellis Adam Trahorn ffrancis Wain Richard Evan John David Walter Williams John Debera Charles Tasey David Pearce Watkin Thomas Evan Hugh -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/458 - Release Date: 9/27/2006

George Wood John Bartram Richard Parker Edmond Williams Enoch Ellot Joseph Hibbard Joseph Bonsall Job Harvey Samuel Bethel John Paschall Thomas Patterson Thomas Pulford Benjamin Davis Banjamin Clift Sarah Bradshaw David Thomas William Priest Isaac Lea Sam: Bunting Margaret Lightfoot Joseph Wood Thomas Hall Benjamin Pearson Benjamin Pearson Jun Freeman Thomas Spray John Wallace Samuel Pritchet Thomas Pearson Peter Deal -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/458 - Release Date: 9/27/2006

I am new to this group and fairly new to seriously researching my roots. But it seems as though there is a lot of bickering and complaining in this group. If I find someone's research on the web I copy it until I can verify it to make sure it is accurate. it gives me a good place to start. It seems like a waste of my time and theirs if I start from scratch! I would never "publish" a history without having the factual documentation. But why publish the family histories on the web if not to help other people, after all we are "family" Marty White in North carolina

We have, perhaps, exhausted the subject of plagiarism, but that certainly doesn't give anyone the right to be rude to other list members, regardless of the subject. In the future, if anyone believes that a subject should be changed, contact ME, the list adm, and do NOT compound the 'problem' with uncalled for and nasty personal comments...this is a good way to leave the list...permanently. Remember, I am the arbiter who decides what is acceptable discussion material, not you....if you don't like it, hit delete and email me. S. . "None of this repetitive complaining is helpful, except for some to try to convince others (or themselves) that they are "better genealogists" that everyone else. . "creating an environment of "holier than thou" -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/458 - Release Date: 9/27/2006

I think most of us researching this county, or any other for that matter, don't live there....I, personally have only visited once, several years ago, and almost ALL my research had been done with books and CDs I've bought, through info found through online lookups and genweb archival records, things I've ordered from Records and Archives, and all the other things available to us online (the upside of computer genealogy)..plus reading anything I could get my hands on about the area....this was done before my visit, which was more about seeing the local family sites and the whole area than doing any research (although I did spend a day at the CCHS). I'm a perfect example of what you can do with 'book larnin'! I've always thought that if one lived in the county where the family had always lived, they wouldn't 'need' these lists....they'd just trot down to the courthouse or wherever and get the records themselves.....so I always 'assume till told different, that list members are NOT from the area. However, you can't always tell..... I've had folks request lookups and then, later, discover that they live locally....I always feel like saying..."you live there and you're asking ME for help...geez, you should be doing the helping!" Getting a copy of what you want, long distance, is not always easy, but generally 'doable' with some 'creative' thinking....or, at least I've found it to be so. The trick for me has always been to know EXACTLY what it is I want (will # so and so on page so and so of will book so and so), and where to ask for it. For example, many state archival libraries have microfilmed newspaper records that are available through interlibrary loan, (the one in my state will send simple copies at 25 cents a page, if you tell them exactly what you want and where to find it), and several large libraries that I know of also participate in interlibrary loans....checking with your own library, or your state archival library, is the first step in the process - find out what info they need from you to obtain materials for you from other libraries. Large libraries generally have online card catalogs you can surf, to see what they have that might be helpful. Long distance research is harder,for sure, but still possible. Luckily for me, many in my family had money, and that generally provides a paper trail to follow - money means land and land means land and tax records, and, most importantly, wills. They were also Quakers, and the Friends were such wonderful record keepers, so this, too, made my work easier. It's the ancestor who rented his farm (name wouldn't appear in tax rates), belonged to a small, local church congregation (records long gone), and died with few possessions (didn't require a will)....THESE are the folks that are almost impossible to find, whether you're in Chester Co, with access to local records, or live in Kalamazoo.(and we all have them on our trees).... it's hard for us to accept, I know, but some folks will NEVER be found, unless through 'divine intervention'! (and, I'm not holding my breath). No one owns the information 'found' in public records, for sure, but by the same token no one has the 'right' to take information from someone else.....it's a fine line, but there.....it's not the same to harvest the data from an original record and to take it from the research of another person. The difference is not in the data but WHERE you find it. So, peruse all the actual records you want and take what you find...do NOT do the same with the research of others. Not without asking permission of the researcher, and noting where the data came from in your own records. S. "I would like to add this comment to this line of posting. It is very difficult for some of us who live on the opposite end of the continent to dear old Chester Co., PA. I have several lines that originate there and so have much to research. Not all info/data is available online. I am not able to travel for health reasons to be in PA to do research in person. So how am I to continue my research?...." '' I once paid money to one of the PA Historical Societies, only to receive tax records which were exactly "not" what I had requested and did not help me at all. So, for now, I have given up on my old Chester Co. lines. I know that there are documents available, and listers have copies of such.....here's an example......I was told once that I should "get it from the library archives, just that same way I did" from a lister who thought that I could just drive down the road like she did and go to the library/archives. ........but from a copyright standpoint, do we have "rights" to information that is available from public records?? I don't know the answer to that. " -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/458 - Release Date: 9/27/2006

Janice, I wholeheartedly agree, and I too am indebted to the generosity of others. Although I do agree with Sandra about people plagurizing her creative works of historical writing, and not giving credit for where the sources came from, I think it is taking it a little too far in terms of the decision of those (other than Sandra) not to share family info with other family members. I guess this subject can go on and on, but at least we live in a free society where we can share our views and opinions. I do respect the opinions of others here on this list. Kim Townsend Spangrude On Oct 1, 2006, at 6:35 AM, Jrcinsd2@aol.com wrote: > I would like to add this comment to this line of posting. It is very > difficult for some of us who live on the opposite end of the continent > to dear old > Chester Co., PA. I have several lines that originate there and so > have much > to research. Not all info/data is available online. I am not able > to travel > for health reasons to be in PA to do research in person. So how am I > to > continue my research when I have reached a point that requires > hands-on work? > Hiring a researcher is financially too expensive. > > I once paid money to one of the PA Historical Societies, only to > receive tax > records which were exactly "not" what I had requested and did not help > me at > all. So, for now, I have given up on my old Chester Co. lines. I > know that > there are documents available, and listers have copies of > such.....here's an > example......I was told once that I should "get it from the library > archives, just that same way I did" from a lister who thought that I > could just drive > down the road like she did and go to the library/archives. I have > never > once hesitated to share whatever info I have obtained, on any person, > on any > list. > > A near-professional researcher told me once that as each new > "generation" of > researchers comes along, it's their job to go over what was done > before them > and correct errors, and then move back to the next generation. If we > don't > share what we learn, how are we all to benefit? I guess if you think > you > might want to publish your work in a book at some time, then you would > not want > others to reprint it........but from a copyright standpoint, do we have > "rights" to information that is available from public records?? I > don't know the > answer to that. I just know that if it were not for the incredible > generosity of listers, on this and all the lists, I would not have > nearly half of what > I have now. > > So, anyway, just thought I'd put in a comment from someone from the > far-off > Pacific Northwest corner of the continent. > > Best regards, > Janice > To unsubscribe from this list, please send the one word message, > unsubscribe, to > pa-old-chester-request@rootsweb.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I have been writing a dissertation for the last year and have learned a lot about copyright. You have the right to the product you produce. If you use sources, they must be cited, otherwise it is plagerism. If, for example, you use a tax list, you must cite the original source of that list or the source in which you found it. And citing includes personal correspondence, interviews etc. Also, if you get information from Ancestry.com or Genealogy.com, you must cite them. If you are using the information privately, then it doesn't matter if you cite your souces, but it can never be published because you can't make a profit from someone else's work. On the other hand, you should be skeptical of work without sources. A research book is really nothing more than getting the sources that pertain to your subject and putting it together the way you want it to be. In other words, two people can take the same information and produce two different books. If someone is planning on writing a book about their family history, they may not want to share in order to force people to buy their work to find out what they have. And the fact is, that most people are not planning on publishing their findings. I agree that hiring a professional is expensive and often you don't get what you want. They can be very disappointing. I know someone on another list that paid dearly for some information from England that I have offered to her for free. She turned me down, maybe because she hoped to find more information than I had. But that didn't happen. Sometimes it is better to get you information from other listers because they at least have a personal investment in what they have found. I have been very lucky in my communications with other people in terms of sharing information. But I just had an email from someone on another list who said she had been refused information by someone for no reason at all. Luckily for all of us, there are generous people out there and more and more information is being published on the web. Kathryn ----- Original Message ----- From: <Jrcinsd2@aol.com> To: <PA-OLD-CHESTER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 8:35 AM Subject: [PaOldC] sharing info >I would like to add this comment to this line of posting. It is very > difficult for some of us who live on the opposite end of the continent to > dear old > Chester Co., PA. I have several lines that originate there and so have > much > to research. Not all info/data is available online. I am not able to > travel > for health reasons to be in PA to do research in person. So how am I to > continue my research when I have reached a point that requires hands-on > work? > Hiring a researcher is financially too expensive. > > I once paid money to one of the PA Historical Societies, only to receive > tax > records which were exactly "not" what I had requested and did not help me > at > all. So, for now, I have given up on my old Chester Co. lines. I know > that > there are documents available, and listers have copies of such.....here's > an > example......I was told once that I should "get it from the library > archives, just that same way I did" from a lister who thought that I > could just drive > down the road like she did and go to the library/archives. I have never > once hesitated to share whatever info I have obtained, on any person, on > any > list. > > A near-professional researcher told me once that as each new "generation" > of > researchers comes along, it's their job to go over what was done before > them > and correct errors, and then move back to the next generation. If we > don't > share what we learn, how are we all to benefit? I guess if you think you > might want to publish your work in a book at some time, then you would not > want > others to reprint it........but from a copyright standpoint, do we have > "rights" to information that is available from public records?? I don't > know the > answer to that. I just know that if it were not for the incredible > generosity of listers, on this and all the lists, I would not have nearly > half of what > I have now. > > So, anyway, just thought I'd put in a comment from someone from the > far-off > Pacific Northwest corner of the continent. > > Best regards, > Janice > To unsubscribe from this list, please send the one word message, > unsubscribe, to > pa-old-chester-request@rootsweb.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I would like to add this comment to this line of posting. It is very difficult for some of us who live on the opposite end of the continent to dear old Chester Co., PA. I have several lines that originate there and so have much to research. Not all info/data is available online. I am not able to travel for health reasons to be in PA to do research in person. So how am I to continue my research when I have reached a point that requires hands-on work? Hiring a researcher is financially too expensive. I once paid money to one of the PA Historical Societies, only to receive tax records which were exactly "not" what I had requested and did not help me at all. So, for now, I have given up on my old Chester Co. lines. I know that there are documents available, and listers have copies of such.....here's an example......I was told once that I should "get it from the library archives, just that same way I did" from a lister who thought that I could just drive down the road like she did and go to the library/archives. I have never once hesitated to share whatever info I have obtained, on any person, on any list. A near-professional researcher told me once that as each new "generation" of researchers comes along, it's their job to go over what was done before them and correct errors, and then move back to the next generation. If we don't share what we learn, how are we all to benefit? I guess if you think you might want to publish your work in a book at some time, then you would not want others to reprint it........but from a copyright standpoint, do we have "rights" to information that is available from public records?? I don't know the answer to that. I just know that if it were not for the incredible generosity of listers, on this and all the lists, I would not have nearly half of what I have now. So, anyway, just thought I'd put in a comment from someone from the far-off Pacific Northwest corner of the continent. Best regards, Janice

We have all had the unfortunate experience of getting information that wasn't quite right, but close enough to use to find the truth. I have found that very useful, myself. What someone else might find just plain "wrong," another researcher might have the imagination to follow up on and resolve. But that can't be done if we only share solidly proven facts. Information doesn't always come in neat little packages, but formulates as a conversion of data that can be used to derive the facts. This whole extended discussion about "plagiarism" and "willfull Misdirection" is getting old, if you ask me. None of this repetitive complaining is helpful, except for some to try to convince others (or themselves) that they are "better genealogists" that everyone else. In fact, it might seriously inhibit discussion and discourage-especially newer genealogists-from sharing what they have for fear of criticism. It could have all ended with a polite request to cite sources or to not post. If the group had started any other topic that accomplished no more than this one has, it would have been abruptly terminated. I suggest we abruptly terminate this one and try to help one another instead of creating an environment of "holier than thou" or competition on this list. Pat Saletore

> [Original Message] > From: Eric Olson <ericbear01@earthlink.net> > To: Wilma Fleming Haynes <wilmahaynes@hughes.net> > Cc: bookman <bookman@suite224.net> > Date: 10/1/2006 2:52:15 AM > Subject: RE: [PaOldC] off the subject......sort of > > What nonsense... > > The site is not there for genealogy at all, it is for keeping records of baptisms for the dead. > > I just checked again, and two new IGI records have appeared for my ancestor, but now being born in Olathe, KS in 1803 and 1805. They have his wife's data okay but certainly not his. The man DIED in Olathe, KS in 1882. The fact is that there WAS no Kansas in 1803 and 1805. Furthermore the first settlement in what is now Kansas was not until 1827. The State of Kansas was organized in 1861. Now how, I ask you, could any person with any awareness at all submit data that he was born in Kansas in 1803 and 1805. > > That ain't a CLUE, Wilma, it is stupidity and ignorance, and willfull misdirection if published as genealogy.. > > I happened to discover my ancestor's obituary and grave site in Kansas several years ago, with "proper research". I included that in my GEDCOM notes on the Internet, and now, person or persons unknown are misusing the data, actually falsifying it for their own purposes. I find that reprehensible. My GGG Grandfather, who exhorted in the Presbyterian Church, would probably be amused to discover he had been re-baptized after he was dead - and without his permission, and that his birthplace had been moved twice.. > > And as for dear old Ann, I found her through a query she had posted on the Internet, and together we finished our mutual task, and knocked down our brick wall of 200 years standing. She did her research properly... > > Today the Sorenson Molecular Genetic Foundation in Salt Lake City is at the forefront of genetic genealogy. They are being extremely careful and diligent with the required four generation lineages, submitted along with Y-DNA samples. That is the wave of the future... Mr. Sorenson is doing a great work... > > Best Wishes, > Eric Olson > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Wilma Fleming Haynes <wilmahaynes@hughes.net> > > To: <ericbear01@earthlink.net> > > Date: 9/30/2006 10:57:26 PM > > Subject: RE: [PaOldC] off the subject......sort of > > > > It isn't the LDS church, it is people that don't do their research properly! > > The site is there for CLUES ONLY - as Ancestry.com or any other site - > > > > So many people don't read the disclaimer -in essence - NEVER NEVER take the > > word of any one - you have to research - too bad your distant cousin didn't > > understand that what you find is not gospel truth - that is up to her to do > > the research - Use your find as a clue to your research! > > > > Wilma > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pa-old-chester-bounces@rootsweb.com > > [mailto:pa-old-chester-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Eric Olson > > Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 10:14 AM > > To: Mal Humes; PA-OLD-CHESTER-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [PaOldC] off the subject......sort of > > > > > > Mal, > > > > Ann, a very distant cousin-by-marriage (is there such a thing?), well, her > > daughter married a distant Carrel cousin, and spent her retirement years > > (she is nearly 100 years old now) in the libraries searching for the family > > of origin of my Carrel ancestor. She failed because the LDS data base she > > worked with had him born in Massachusetts in 1805 when in reality he was > > born in western Pennsylvania in 1806. The submitter of the false data to > > LDS had simply assumed he was born in the same place and at the same time > > as his wife. NOT! They actually met in Licking County, Ohio in 1826 and > > married there. Her family had moved from Massachusetts to Ohio when she was > > a little girl. Poor Ann had wasted thirty years of research in > > Massachusetts. That false data still indelibly exists in the LDS data base > > - the one that is submitted by individuals, not the microfilmed documents. > > > > Point is that when personally researched family trees are posted on the > > Internet, appropriated by Ancestry.com, etc., and burned into CDs for sale > > they become as if sacred writings, even if full of errors, without the > > possibility of correction as new data is discovered. Folks who willy-nilly > > merge undocumented family trees into their GEDCOM files are guilty not only > > of plagiarism but of unknowingly propagating errors. RootsWeb now has the > > post-em notes, but that's a feeble remedy. > > > > Now believe it or not, we have the opposite problem in the new world of > > Y-DNA testing for genealogy - genetic genealogy. There are surname > > projects such as for surname Carroll. Participation consists of submitting > > a DNA sample to a lab, and then posting the results in a data base along > > with your lineage. But what seems to be happening is that folks submit > > their DNA results but not their lineage. That subverts the whole concept > > of finding lost relatives through genetic genealogy. But that is a topic > > for another mailing list. > > > > I say input your family tree to the Internet, but don't download others > > with tenuous connections to yours, just to make your tree seem bigger than > > it actually is. Sure, I can prove I am a second cousin to Abraham Lincoln, > > five times removed, but I would not think of merging his tree into mine, > > except for our ancestor-in-common. > > > > Eric > > > > > [Original Message] > > > From: Mal Humes <mal3@mal.net> > > > To: <PA-OLD-CHESTER-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Date: 9/30/2006 7:33:18 AM > > > Subject: Re: [PaOldC] off the subject......sort of > > > > > > RE: > > > > we have PLENTY of folks who just > > > > want YOU / US to do all their searching for them, and then credit > > > > themselve's for putting it all together. ie - all those queries that > > > > say > > > > "tell me all you have on such and such" I have myself backed away > > > > from these questions, and ask for something specific instead. > > > > > > And > > > > > > >I will admit to having reservations about posting or publishing any of my > > > genealogical work to >the Internet. But you have to bring something to > > the > > > party. > > > > > > I know it's easy to be concerned enough about privacy and security of your > > > data, and I know the feeling that people are just asking others to do > > their > > > work and I don't like to encourage it. But I generally find that when I > > help > > > even if I can't see the relevant connections to me I find things that are > > > very interesting and useful. Often I don't see how it's useful until days > > or > > > months later. And some of the connections I've made offered payback to > > those > > > who did share enough so that I could who their ancestors were. > > > > > > I found a graveyard listing on a web site this month that has ancestors > > from > > > early 1800s by helping someone who asked me about some indirect > > connections > > > to an ancestor of mine that is cited as a witness to a will of their > > > ancestor in 1866. I almost ignored it because I felt too busy and they > > > already had a lot more info about the people that they were looking for > > than > > > I could find. But then I sent a tree and some info I had where my family > > had > > > come from a nearby county and before that. > > > > > > They replied with links to some bios of my ancestor and his brother and > > > father in some online books I hadn't seen yet and that led to a few more > > in > > > the Historic Pittsburgh PA collection of books online > > > <http://digital.library.pitt.edu/fulltext/>. There's clearly some > > marriages > > > between a surname in my line that marries into two generations of my > > family > > > and what looks like a sibling of a GILCHRIST from my tree line married > > into > > > his family. > > > > > > By sharing info and asking for more on what they had I was pointed to a > > > cemetery he said some of the folks on my tree were buried in. I checked > > and > > > found comments on that cemetery page from someone who was a clearly > > related > > > to the same ancestor as me about 6 generations back. I asked her what she > > > had on that person and she was able to share some info from a hard to > > find 6 > > > volume book on that CALHOUN line that added very well cited and documented > > > research to add another 5 or 6 generations of history to that branch. > > > Through the three way exchange this started we all came away with more > > than > > > we started with. > > > > > > This week I am returning a bible from the 1770's to the a descendant of > > the > > > owner, Frederick JORDAN b. 1740. My mother found this in an attic when > > was a > > > child in the 1940's, on old Jordan farm, Walnut Hill, in Highspire, PA > > > (Dauphin County). There is no connection to my Jordan line that we can > > find > > > but I was able to identify the family because of shared trees and info > > > online. It turns out it belonged to the great grandfather of famous > > > historian and genealogist John Wolf Jordan. Mr. Jordan worked for the > > > Historical Society of PA and wrote many books about PA. > > > > > > Through research shared online I was able to identify someone who is a > > great > > > granddaughter of John Wolf Jordan. The bible is going home to the family > > > after apparently parting with it after the death of someone around 1820. > > > Even though the last two generations were privatized I was able to tell > > that > > > a certain tree had to be from someone from that line and contacted her via > > > email and offered to return the bible to her family. She's thrilled. We > > > can't tell if or lines are related but if they are it predates 1740 by a > > > generation or more. > > > > > > I just wanted to share that to offer a good example of why publishing your > > > family info online can help connect more than just data. I've tracked down > > > other distant cousins to offer them photographs of mutual ancestors born > > in > > > the early 1800's. My grandfather tried to throw these photos away after > > his > > > wife died and my sister pulled them out of the trash. I've shared them > > with > > > descendants of 3 siblings of my grandmother's great grandmother so they > > > could see the parents of both sides of that family and the group and > > single > > > portraits in an old photo album. > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, please send the one word message, > > unsubscribe, to > > > pa-old-chester-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, please send the one word message, > > unsubscribe, to > > pa-old-chester-request@rootsweb.com > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There seems to be one type of 'genealogist' (and I use the term lightly), that measure success by the number of names they have in their files.... we've all met them....they act like there is a prize for the person with the largest # of names, and I imagine these are the folks who merge God only knows what , willy nilly, into their files, so they can 'brag' that they have 20, 000 names. Personally, I doubt if you'll EVER find an honest to goodness, researching genealogist who has counted the names they have....what would be the reason? None that I can think of...but, then, we're also the folks who document everyone we have, and many times even have a hard copy OF that documentation. For us, 'size' isn't important..... accuracy is! I decided, once upon a time, to try to correct the huge number of provable errors in my own family lines, in the Ancestral files of the LDS, and they made it REALLY hard to do so. Finally, I thought, my family errors aren't even a drop in the bucket of Ancestral file errors and gave it up for a bad job. (To my mind, it would be far better to be harder to submit data (how about documentation?) and easier to remove the errors!) But, that's never going to happen, after all these years. I was SO thrilled when I was new and green and visited the LDS, but quickly figured out that their real value was not to be found in the Ancestral files but in their filmed documents. Plus, the first advice my genealogical mentor gave me many years ago was to not believe ANYTHING unless I had the proof IN MY HAND. I've never had reason to doubt the wisdom of this advice and always tell gen. students the same thing. Sometimes I think if we could just start people out better, they wouldn't be so sloppy later! For me, I wanted to know who my own family were, and without documentation how could I possibly know? Thus, I knew careful documentation was a necessary part of the process.....and, while involved IN this process we all read a ton of material, adding to our general knowledge of an area, a religion, a time that allow us to 'see' our ancestors as people, rather than just names and dates. That, I think, to most of us, is what it's all about. Who cares about just names and dates or how many we have? DNA is going to be the wave of the future in genealogy, and it's pretty fascinating to think about. A couple years ago I took part in a study program started by BYU...I had to send at least 5 generations with the documentation (I sent 11), and a cheek swab. This won't, of course, be of any help to me, but future generations of folks may be able to find their ancestors with the help of my documentation and DNA! In a odd sort of way, it's a kind of immortality, and it pleases me to think about it. S. "......spent her retirement years (she is nearly 100 years old now) in the libraries searching for the family of origin of my Carrel ancestor. She failed because the LDS data base she worked with had him born in Massachusetts in 1805 when in reality he was born in western Pennsylvania in 1806. The submitter of the false data to LDS had simply assumed he was born in the same place and at the same time as his wife. NOT! Poor Ann had wasted thirty years of research in Massachusetts. That false data still indelibly exists in the LDS data base - the one that is submitted by individuals, not the microfilmed documents...." Point is that when personally researched family trees are posted on the Internet, appropriated by Ancestry.com, etc., and burned into CDs for sale they become as if sacred writings, even if full of errors, without the possibility of correction as new data is discovered. Folks who willy-nilly merge undocumented family trees into their GEDCOM files are guilty not only of plagiarism but of unknowingly propagating errors. Now believe it or not, we have the opposite problem in the new world of Y-DNA testing for genealogy - genetic genealogy. There are surname projects such as for surname Carroll. Participation consists of submitting a DNA sample to a lab, and then posting the results in a data base along with your lineage. But what seems to be happening is that folks submit their DNA results but not their lineage. That subverts the whole concept of finding lost relatives through genetic genealogy. I say input your family tree to the Internet, but don't download others with tenuous connections to yours, just to make your tree seem bigger than it actually is. ...." -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/458 - Release Date: 9/27/2006