Here is a Montgomery. Co will that may explain who Abraham Jones' daughter , Roseann, was named for....although it doesn't give a familial relationship. Sandra RHOADS, ROSANNA. Norriton.June 15, 1797. December 31, 1818. 5.102To Rosanna Jones, daughter of Abraham Jones, 10 pds. silver spoons etc. To nephew Issacher Rhoads, 10 pds. To nephew Abraham Rhoads, 5 s. Rem. to nephew Zebedee Rhoads.Exec: Zebedee Rhoads. Wit: Nathan Potts, Priscilla Potts. "........Marcy Unknown, the wife of Abraham Jones and the mother of Hannah Jones Richardson. She was born about 1760, married Abraham Jones about 1777, had seven children (Josiah, 1779; Hannah, 1781; Ann, 1784; Isreal (sic), Jan 1787; John, Nov 1787; Rosannah, 1789; and Margret, 1794), and died in 1794 in Upper Merion, Montgomery County PA. I cannot find her maiden name or birthplace. I thought Marcy might possibly have been her last name and googled for it under the Marcy family. It seems there were a lot of Marcys near Wilkes Barre and Scranton and that one of them was named Rosanna, not a very common name, but one also held by Hannah Jones Richardson's sister. So I have not abandoned this possibility, but do not know where to go next with it." -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.28/518 - Release Date: 11/4/2006

http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/pa/chester/cemeteries/rollinggreen.txt -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.28/518 - Release Date: 11/4/2006

I saw mention of: * Rev. Morgan Edwards's " Materials for the History of the Baptists," a very rare book printed in 1770. That book has been reprinted and must be available somewhere for sale and probably at many libraries. Morgan Edwards, Materials Toward a History of the American Baptists both British and German (1770), 2 vols, (reprinted by Mary B. Warren, Danielsville, GA: Heritage Papers, 1984) Gwen Boyer Bjorkman gwenbj@seanet.com -----Original Message----- From: pa-old-chester-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:pa-old-chester-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Diana Quinones Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 8:29 AM To: pa-old-chester@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PaOldC] Keithains and Thomas RUTTER Mal had written: ..."Pennepek, or Lower Dublin Church. -- This is now the oldest church in Pennsylvania, as the one gathered by Mr. Dungan was broken up in 1702. "Reverend Evan Morgan, who came to this country very early, and was a man of piety and parts. He broke off from the Quakers along with many others of Mr. Keith's party in 1691; was baptized in 1697, by one Thomas Butter, and the same year, renouncing the reliques of Quakerism, was received into the church. The Thomas Butter is RUTTER! He was a Keithian. Some of the following is from the 'Potts Memorial' book: He 'was' a member in early life of the Society of Friends, belonging to the Philadelphia meeting, also to the Abington meeting, on the records of which the births of his three eldest children are entered. Later he renounced his faith and became a Baptist, and for a time was pastor of a small congregation of that sect in Philadelphia. He died in Philadelphia, on Sunday before 13 March, 1730. He married, by Friends' ceremony, January 10, 1685, Rebecca Staples, who survived him. The newly married pair appear to have at once settled on their land in Bristol township, for they became members of Abington meeting the same year. Children: Anna; Rebecca; Thomas, born 1690 (q. v.): John, 1693; Mary, married Edward Rees: Martha, married - Doughty; Hester/Esther, married Henry Hockley; Joseph, died 1732. It is from his sons Thomas, John and Joseph that most of the names in Pennsylvania descend, in fact, all who claim Rutter descend from the colonial period. Rutter was a Public Friend, as the ministers in that society are called, and an active member there until the schism among the Quakers led by George Keith in 1697. At that date he subscribed his name, with sixty-nine others, to the paper issued at Burlington in defense of Keith. This document does not seem to be generally known. Proud makes no mention of it in his history, and yet he professes to give an impartial statement of this division among Friends, and for that purpose prints three papers against Keith which are mere repetitions of each other, and neglects to give this important one on the opposite side. Having found a loose copy of this Defense, printed on a quarto sheet at the time, I give it in the Appendix to rescue it from oblivion, and to show that there were Quakers of rank and influence who believed that the judgment of the "meetings" against Keith was harsh and erroneous. Rutter was baptized in 1697 by the Rev. Thomas Killingworth, and as he was already a preacher he now set forth Keith's doctrines, of Christ the external Word, and the visible sacraments. He commanded as of higher value than "the inward light." Soon after his conversion Rutter baptized Rev. Evan Morgan and Mr. John Hart, both of whom became eminent preachers among the Baptists. He also baptized Henry Bernard Koster, Thomas Peart, and seven others whose names are not recorded.* "These nine persons united in communion [in Philadelphia] June 12, 1698, having Thomas Rutter to their minister, they increased and continued together nine years, but some removing to the country and the unbaptized Keithians falling off the society in a manner broke up in 1707, and then the few that remained invited the regular Baptists to join them and were incorporated with them." Those who followed Keith still further formed Christ Church, Philadelphia, and the Thomas Peart above named was one of them; for having in 1734, shortly before his death, made a conveyance of the premises where the Baptist Church stood, in Second Street, near Arch, to the Church of England, the vestry of Christ Church demanded possession, and a lawsuit ensued which was finally compromised by the payment of L50. Thomas Rutter organized another society of Keithian Baptists, in 1697 in Lower Dublin, at the house of Abraham Pratt, but soon those who preferred the seventh day for the Sabbath separated," and in 1702 built a place of worship in Oxford township, on a lot given them by Thomas Graves; but they neglecting to take a conveyance in due time, the Episcopalians have got both the lot and the house; on the lot they have built Oxford Church and turned the Baptist meeting house into a stable while it stood, but now it is no more." Edwards says their ministers, William Davis and Thomas Rutter, quitted them; but it is probable that John Swift, whom Rutter had baptized, was carried over still farther to the old forms and ceremonies, and the majority becoming Episcopalians, they formed this church. About two miles from it are the gravestones of some of these early seventh-day Baptists, the curious inscriptions on which are given in Watson's Annals. They have been removed from their original position, and are now half standing near the spring-house, on the estate of the late James N. Dickson. They should be placed in the beautiful rural graveyard of Oxford Church, of which those whose memory they commemorate were the earliest projectors.* * Rev. Morgan Edwards's " Materials for the History of the Baptists," a very rare book printed in 1770. In the records of Germantown, Thomas Rutter's name occurs frequently, as his residence was near enough to the village to allow him to take an active interest in its affairs. When, in 1705 - 6, Pastorius resigned the office of head magistrate of his German community, Thomas Rutter succeeded him, and, according to the record, "on the 11 th day of 12 MO., 1706/7, the Court was opened before Thomas Rutter, Bailiff" Rutter settled on Manatawny Creek about 1715 and built Pine Forge and other forges and furnaces. In Early Penn Land Records, Minute Book H, Thomas Rutter, County of Philadelphia, bought 500 acres in back of his tract at Manatawny, 'it being ordinary land only fit to supply his forage with wood for coal, for 50 pds and one shilling sterling quitrent. Warrant issued 31, Xber, 1718. The main building on the Pine Forge estate is the Pine mansion on which construction was completed between 1725 and 1729 by Rutter, who also built America's first iron-making operation, Pool Forge, in the early 1700's. Thomas Rutter and Thomas Potts were cousins and upon Rutter's death in 1730, the home went to Potts. Thomas Potts' son, John, was not only the next to live in the Pine mansion but the founder of a nearby city, which is known as Pottstown to this day. Obituary in Pennsylvania Gazette, week of 13 March1729/30: Thomas Rutter, Sr.: On Sunday night last died here after a short illness. He was the first to erect an iron-work in Pennsylvania. Diana in AL

Hi All, I am new to this list and am need of some help. I am a F/A ISO bfamily DOB 11/21/59 I am looking for a family named Williams living in Chester/Lansdowne, PA in the late 1950's through 60's. This is a Black family I have been told there were 6 girls all who probably had college scholarships and went to college. I have no first names. Just approximate birthyears for all family members. If anyone has or has access to Lansdowne or Chester city directories and can look up or copy for me the listings for Williams for 58, 59, and/or 60 I would appreciate it. I will pay for copying/reasonable gas if you go there and mailing. I am not in the area and getting to the historical society would be difficult. Father b. about 1900 mother b. about 1911 1st child b. about 1927 2nd child b. about 1931 3rd child b. about 1932 4th child b. about 1934 5th child b. about 1938 6th child b. about 1939 Birthyears based on ages in 1959 according to adoption agency. Thanks for your help. Pamela ____________________________________________________________________________________ Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index

Mal had written: ..."Pennepek, or Lower Dublin Church. -- This is now the oldest church in Pennsylvania, as the one gathered by Mr. Dungan was broken up in 1702. "Reverend Evan Morgan, who came to this country very early, and was a man of piety and parts. He broke off from the Quakers along with many others of Mr. Keith's party in 1691; was baptized in 1697, by one Thomas Butter, and the same year, renouncing the reliques of Quakerism, was received into the church. The Thomas Butter is RUTTER! He was a Keithian. Some of the following is from the 'Potts Memorial' book: He 'was' a member in early life of the Society of Friends, belonging to the Philadelphia meeting, also to the Abington meeting, on the records of which the births of his three eldest children are entered. Later he renounced his faith and became a Baptist, and for a time was pastor of a small congregation of that sect in Philadelphia. He died in Philadelphia, on Sunday before 13 March, 1730. He married, by Friends' ceremony, January 10, 1685, Rebecca Staples, who survived him. The newly married pair appear to have at once settled on their land in Bristol township, for they became members of Abington meeting the same year. Children: Anna; Rebecca; Thomas, born 1690 (q. v.): John, 1693; Mary, married Edward Rees: Martha, married - Doughty; Hester/Esther, married Henry Hockley; Joseph, died 1732. It is from his sons Thomas, John and Joseph that most of the names in Pennsylvania descend, in fact, all who claim Rutter descend from the colonial period. Rutter was a Public Friend, as the ministers in that society are called, and an active member there until the schism among the Quakers led by George Keith in 1697. At that date he subscribed his name, with sixty-nine others, to the paper issued at Burlington in defense of Keith. This document does not seem to be generally known. Proud makes no mention of it in his history, and yet he professes to give an impartial statement of this division among Friends, and for that purpose prints three papers against Keith which are mere repetitions of each other, and neglects to give this important one on the opposite side. Having found a loose copy of this Defense, printed on a quarto sheet at the time, I give it in the Appendix to rescue it from oblivion, and to show that there were Quakers of rank and influence who believed that the judgment of the "meetings" against Keith was harsh and erroneous. Rutter was baptized in 1697 by the Rev. Thomas Killingworth, and as he was already a preacher he now set forth Keith's doctrines, of Christ the external Word, and the visible sacraments. He commanded as of higher value than "the inward light." Soon after his conversion Rutter baptized Rev. Evan Morgan and Mr. John Hart, both of whom became eminent preachers among the Baptists. He also baptized Henry Bernard Koster, Thomas Peart, and seven others whose names are not recorded.* "These nine persons united in communion [in Philadelphia] June 12, 1698, having Thomas Rutter to their minister, they increased and continued together nine years, but some removing to the country and the unbaptized Keithians falling off the society in a manner broke up in 1707, and then the few that remained invited the regular Baptists to join them and were incorporated with them." Those who followed Keith still further formed Christ Church, Philadelphia, and the Thomas Peart above named was one of them; for having in 1734, shortly before his death, made a conveyance of the premises where the Baptist Church stood, in Second Street, near Arch, to the Church of England, the vestry of Christ Church demanded possession, and a lawsuit ensued which was finally compromised by the payment of L50. Thomas Rutter organized another society of Keithian Baptists, in 1697 in Lower Dublin, at the house of Abraham Pratt, but soon those who preferred the seventh day for the Sabbath separated," and in 1702 built a place of worship in Oxford township, on a lot given them by Thomas Graves; but they neglecting to take a conveyance in due time, the Episcopalians have got both the lot and the house; on the lot they have built Oxford Church and turned the Baptist meeting house into a stable while it stood, but now it is no more." Edwards says their ministers, William Davis and Thomas Rutter, quitted them; but it is probable that John Swift, whom Rutter had baptized, was carried over still farther to the old forms and ceremonies, and the majority becoming Episcopalians, they formed this church. About two miles from it are the gravestones of some of these early seventh-day Baptists, the curious inscriptions on which are given in Watson's Annals. They have been removed from their original position, and are now half standing near the spring-house, on the estate of the late James N. Dickson. They should be placed in the beautiful rural graveyard of Oxford Church, of which those whose memory they commemorate were the earliest projectors.* * Rev. Morgan Edwards's " Materials for the History of the Baptists," a very rare book printed in 1770. In the records of Germantown, Thomas Rutter's name occurs frequently, as his residence was near enough to the village to allow him to take an active interest in its affairs. When, in 1705 - 6, Pastorius resigned the office of head magistrate of his German community, Thomas Rutter succeeded him, and, according to the record, "on the 11 th day of 12 MO., 1706/7, the Court was opened before Thomas Rutter, Bailiff" Rutter settled on Manatawny Creek about 1715 and built Pine Forge and other forges and furnaces. In Early Penn Land Records, Minute Book H, Thomas Rutter, County of Philadelphia, bought 500 acres in back of his tract at Manatawny, 'it being ordinary land only fit to supply his forage with wood for coal, for 50 pds and one shilling sterling quitrent. Warrant issued 31, Xber, 1718. The main building on the Pine Forge estate is the Pine mansion on which construction was completed between 1725 and 1729 by Rutter, who also built America's first iron-making operation, Pool Forge, in the early 1700's. Thomas Rutter and Thomas Potts were cousins and upon Rutter's death in 1730, the home went to Potts. Thomas Potts' son, John, was not only the next to live in the Pine mansion but the founder of a nearby city, which is known as Pottstown to this day. Obituary in Pennsylvania Gazette, week of 13 March1729/30: Thomas Rutter, Sr.: On Sunday night last died here after a short illness. He was the first to erect an iron-work in Pennsylvania. Diana in AL

Thank you so much, Mal and Sandra, for all the good information and references concerning Baptists and Quakers. My particular case is that members of two generations were disowned by their Meetings for marriages to Baptists. albeit they were mother and daughter. The first was David Stephens, a birthright Quaker, who married Elizabeth Evans and was read out of Radnor MM in about 1756, and the second was Jacob Richardson, who married their daughter, Eleanor, in 1770 and was read out of Gwynedd MM 28 Jul 1772. Eleanor Stephens Richardson's death is recorded by the Great Valley Baptist Church in Early Chester County Church Records Vol. 3. Jacob and Eleanor's son, William, married Hannah Jones (a daughter of Abraham Jones, a birthright member of Gwynedd MM, but as an adult mentioned in their Men's Minutes as being not in Unity, though I have no record of him being read out) in the First Baptist Church of Philadelphia 23 Apr 1801. Thanks to all the fascinating historical information that you have given me and pointed me to and to the apparent involvement of members of my family in it, it is difficult to resist getting lost in the setting instead of keeping a balance between it and the individuals I am trying to find in it. One such individual is Marcy Unknown, the wife of Abraham Jones and the mother of Hannah Jones Richardson. She was born about 1760, married Abraham Jones about 1777, had seven children (Josiah, 1779; Hannah, 1781; Ann, 1784; Isreal (sic), Jan 1787; John, Nov 1787; Rosannah, 1789; and Margret, 1794), and died in 1794 in Upper Merion, Montgomery County PA. I cannot find her maiden name or birthplace. I thought Marcy might possibly have been her last name and googled for it under the Marcy family. It seems there were a lot of Marcys near Wilkes Barre and Scranton and that one of them was named Rosanna, not a very common name, but one also held by Hannah Jones Richardson's sister. So I have not abandoned this possibility, but do not know where to go next with it. With great appreciation for your help, Mary Arnett >From: "Mal Humes" <mal3@mal.net> >To: <PA-Old-Chester-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 1:26 PM >Subject: [PaOldC] early PA Quaker & Baptists connections, Quaker >Baptists,and Keithians > > > > >Since I think it is virtually certain that Griffith Evan was not a > > >Quaker, > >>but a Baptist, I have been trying to read up on the early days of the > >>Baptist Church - and to the cooperation and development of Quakers and > >>Baptists in the Welsh Tract and throughout the 18th century. > > > > I would not assume that because one ancestor was known to have attended >a > > certain church at a certain time that this defines the person or family >as > > definitively of one faith or sect. > > > > I'd be especially careful making assumptions that certain Welsh settlers > > were not Quaker because they were Baptist and vice versa. Keep in mind > > that > > the area was founded in a time of religious conversions and that by 1700 > > few > > Quakers had been Quakers for more than even a generation or two. Later > > waves > > of religious conversion followed with Methodists, Rappists (Harmonists), > > the > > rise of the Presbyterian church in the US, the Swedenborg church >movement. > > In some cases multiple congregations of different persuasions used the > > same > > meeting houses. > > > > Search for more info on the Keithian split from the Quakers circa 1690's > > to > > early 1700's and you'll find a lot of info connecting the congregations >of > > Quaker and Baptist churches. The first Quaker schism resulted in >Keithian > > separatists falling out of the Quakers and many became Baptists. > > > > Great Valley Baptist is one of at least two churches in the area said to > > be > > founded in part by ex-Quakers who embraced the Baptist faith. > > > > Some links below to more info on the early Keithian Quaker schism and >the > > connections to the Baptists may offer some more insight on this topic of > > Baptists and Quakers. > > > > A short history of schism in the Friends in America > > http://www.strecorsoc.org/docs/fracture.html offers some insight on >Keith > > and the Keithians. > > > > I've also added quotes from some of the other links to illustrate some >of > > the relevance of the URLs below. > > > > <http://www.reformedreader.org/history/christian/ahob2/chapter05.htm> > > "Thus have we seen that the Keithian Quakers ended in a kind of > > transformation into Keithian Baptists; they were also called Quaker > > Baptists, because they still retained the language, dress and manners of > > Quakers. We have seen also, that the Keithian or Quaker Baptists ended >in > > another kind of transformation into seventh-day Baptists, though some >went > > among the first-day Baptists and other societies. However, these were >the > > beginning of the Sabbatarians in Pennsylvania. " > > > > http://www.strecorsoc.org/docs/keith1.html > > "The greatest trend was towards the Baptists, but a number, after being > > immersed, were keepers of Saturday as the day of rest and worship, and > > joined the Seventh Day Baptists. ... and most of the other Keithians of > > Southampton sooner or later joined Pennypack Baptist Church. ... From >the > > Welsh Tract Church, missions and perhaps emigrants founded several > > congregations, among them that of the Great Valley (in Tredyffrin > > Township, > > Chester Co.), instituted in 1711 with Rev. Hugh Davis, an ordained > > minister > > from Wales. The Pennypack Church died out, and the views and practices >of > > the Welsh Tract people spread through the Baptist denominations of >Penn's > > colony." > > > > http://www.strecorsoc.org/docs/keith1.html > > "This Upper Providence congregation split on the question of the >Sabbath, > > and dissolved. However, those who favored keeping Sunday were gathered > > together about 1715 by Rev. Abel Morgan, and, in 1718, built a > > meeting-house > > in Birmingham Township, bearing the name of Brandywine Baptist Church. >The > > Sabbatarians, on the other hand, united at Newtown. In 1717, a number >took > > up considerable land between Brandywine and French Creek, and, >reinforced > > by > > some seceders from the Great Valley Baptist Church, this congregation, > > called Nantmeal, became a strong one." > > > > ><http://www.reformedreader.org/history/benedict/baptistdenomination/pennsylv > > ania.htm> > > ..."Pennepek, or Lower Dublin Church. -- This is now the oldest church >in > > Pennsylvania, as the one gathered by Mr. Dungan was broken up in 1702. > > ... > > "Reverend Evan Morgan, who came to this country very early, and was a >man > > of > > piety and parts. He broke off from the Quakers along with many others of > > Mr. > > Keith's party in 1691; was baptized in 1697, by one Thomas Butter, and >the > > same year, renouncing the reliques of Quakerism, was received into the > > church. In 1702, he was called to the ministry, and ordained October 23, > > 1706, by Reverend Messrs. Thomas Griffith and Thomas Killingsworth. > > ... > > "The place where these people met, at first, was the corner of Second > > Street > > and Chesnut Street, known by the name of Barbadoes lot. The building was >a > > storehouse; but when the Barbadoes company left the place, the Baptists > > held > > their meetings there. So also did the Presbyterians, when either a >Baptist > > or Presbyterian minister happened to be in town; for as yet neither had > > any > > settled among them." > > > > http://www.yourbrotherkings.com/?m=200606 > > "Able Noble is claimed to have been the first Seventh-Day Baptist in > > Pennsylvania, and to have arrived in 1684. His name is among the > > forty-eight > > who signed the reasons for the Keithian separation. That he signed this > > paper is evidence that the had been a Friend, to which may be added his > > marriage at Darby Meeting, in 1692, to Mary Garrett, a member thereof." > > > > "John Hannum and eighteen others, on October 12th, 1697, incorporated >and > > proceeded to choose a minister by lot, which fell to Thomas Martin, who > > the > > same day administered to them the Lord's Supper for the first time. From > > that day forth other Keithian Quakers were baptized." > > > > "George Keith afterwards became an Episcopal minister, and many of his > > followers adopted the same faith; among them were John Hannum and his >wife > > Margery." > > > > "The building of St. Paul's Church at Chester, Pa., was completed in >July, > > 1702, and on Sunday, January 24th, 1703 (new style), St. Paul's day, the > > ediface was opened to public worship, Rev. John Talbot preaching the >first > > sermon. Rev. George Keith preached there on February 7th and August 3rd, > > 1703, and afterwards." > > > > > > In contrast to the Quaker -> Keithian -> Baptist movements most of the > > above > > discuss, here is an example offered of some of the Gwynedd Welsh > > (presumably > > Baptists) who were drawn in by the Quakers. > > > > >http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/pa/philadelphia/areahistory/watson0204. > > txt > > GWYNEDD --- in MONTGOMERY COUNTY > > > > "The late venerable Jesse Foulke stated, in substance, the following > > facts > > concerning what he knew of the settlement of Gwynedd, to wit : -- > > In the year 1698, the township was purchased of William Penn, by >William, > > John, and Thomas Evans, and distributed among original settlers, to wit >: > > William, John, Thomas, Robert, Owen and Cadwallader Evans, Hugh >Griffiths, > > Edward Foulke, Robert Jones, John Hughs, and John Humphreys. Only the >two > > eldest were then Friends -- all were Welshmen; and all, except the two > > Friends were churchmen. These held their meetings at Robert Evans'; and > > there Cadwallader Evans was in the practice to read from the Bible to >the > > people. > > But as Cadwallader Evans himself related, he was going as usual to his > > brother Robert's when, passing near to the road to Friends' meeting, >held > > at > > John Hughs' and John Humphreys', it seemed as if he was impressed "to go > > down and see how the Quakers do". This he mentioned to his friends at >the > > close of his own meeting, and they all agreed to go to the Friends the > > next > > time; and where they were all so well satisfied, that they never again >met > > in their own worship." > > > > > > > > As an aside, I found an article that details the history of the early PA > > Welsh land and how this territory was split into two counties against >the > > wishes of the Welsh. I recommend this article by Wayland F. Dunaway, > > "Early > > Welsh Settlers of Pennsylvania", to anyone interested the PA Welsh > > history. > > I've excerpted a quote below that seems particularly relevant to the > > Chester > > list. > > > > <http://cip.cornell.edu/Dienst/UI/1.0/Summarize/psu.ph/1129767104> > > "They were a peaceable folk, and what little civil authority was needed > > was exercised through their Quaker meetings. This system came to > > an end in 1690, not because the Welsh wished it but because out- > > side forces changed it. It had been the understanding of the Welsh > > that their barony would lie in one undivided tract, not subject to > > division into municipal districts; but in 1685 the provincial au- > > thorities ran a division line between Philadelphia and Chester > > Counties, thereby dividing the Welsh Tract. Furthermore, in 1690 > > the civil authority exercised by the Quaker meetings was abolished > > in the three townships of Haverford, Merion, and Radnor, and in > > its stead the regular township government was established; and, > > as the population increased, other townships were created within > > the barony with similar government. The Welsh contended that this > > was contrary to their understanding with Penn, and insisted that, > > if there were to be any townships at all, their barony should con- > > stitute only one municipal district, in which they should select their > > own officers from among themselves and should collect their own > > taxes. But this arrangement did not appear to the representatives > > of Penn to be feasible; hence the barony was divided into town- > > ships, as was customary elsewhere throughout the province. To > > the Welsh, however, who claimed that this was in violation of their > > agreement with the proprietary, the new arrangement was a real > > grievance against which they protested stoutly. They objected also > > to the placing of their tract partly in one county and partly in an- > > other, which was accomplished by the running of the division line > > between Philadelphia and Chester Counties, and the consequent > > transference of the townships of Haverford and Radnor from the > > former to the latter county. As other Welsh settlers came in, addi- > > tional townships were created in the barony, which was settled > > rapidly. The Welsh at first stood on what they conceived to be > > their rights, protesting against the division of their tract by county > > and township lines and refusing to recognize the validity of the > > municipal arrangements to which they were subjected. By 1690, > > however, they had discovered the hopelessness of their struggle > > against the provincial authorities, and submitted with as good a > > grace as possible to conditions which they were powerless to > > resist. " > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more…then map the best route! http://local.live.com?FORM=MGA001

It's been awhile since I've posted these, so I thought I would re-post, in case there have been new members join the List. Susan My areas of interest are: 1. David JAMES b. abt 1669, d. 1739 in Chester county, Pennsylvania. He came from SOMEWHERE in Wales, but where? The only reason I know he was from Wales, was because the inventory of his estate listed him as owning many books written in Welsh. There were many Welsh families living in Chester county, PA at the same time as David. I have been unable to connect him with anyone, so I think his parents did not come to America. Four men who descend from David have participated in the James DNA project ( www.jamesdna.net ) 2. Howell JAMES, also of Chester county, and later Delaware, where he died in 1717. He was a Quaker. He came from Monmouthshire, England/Wales. The James DNA project had one man from this line test, and he did not match the 4 men who tested who descend from #1 David James. So, Howell and David do not share a common male ancestor. 3. James JAMES, another Quaker who died in 1708 in Chester county, Pennsylvania. He probably came from Wales. He should not be confused with #2 Howell's son James James, who lived well past 1708. Two men who descend from JJ have participated in the James DNA project. They do not match #1 or #2, so yet a 3rd distinct James family in Chester county, PA during Colonial times. 4. Another David James, Quaker, came to Radnor, Chester county, Penn. from Radnorshire, Wales in 1682 with wife Margaret and daughter Mary in 1682. Erroneously said by some to be the same David as #1, however Quaker David died long before #1 David (a Baptist). Only known child is Mary. The other children who are said to be his, are the children of David #1. I descend from #1, but am still very interested in #2, #3, and #4, and would like to correspond with anyone who descends from any of these three lines, or has information on them. Willing to share what info I have on these families. Thanks!! Susan

In a message dated 11/3/2006 12:43:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, ferg@ntelos.net writes: Price.... Rice/Reece.... And all the variants of the above; Rhyse, Prhyse, Preece and things that to our eyes don't look like anything even remotely resembling Price <G> Much of the knowledge I have of Welsh names has come to me from this list and has proved invaluable. The first time I saw Thomas Lacy he was married to a Rhys and then to a Rice and suddenly my mind flashed to a discussion on this list <G> and all was sunny. Good luck with the Welsh folk <G> Eliz

http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/pa/delaware/cemeteries/montrose.txt -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: 11/3/2006

I can vouch for not trusting Bible records. I inherited a family Bible, dating back over 150 years. The early years are faded and the writing scratchy. The third generation, which included my grandfather's brothers and sisters, the writing neat, with all birthdates of twelve children. I shared this information with a number of descendants, it is to this day on a website. When I made a trip to the county in Ohio where these children were born and found most of the birth records, nine of the birthdates were wrong. Not just the day, but months. I found all the death dates correct, and according to various records, the birth dates and death dates for the parents was correct. The death dates were probably correct because my grandfather and later my mother, added them to the Bible as the deaths occurred.. I wish Sandra had been around those years ago to remind me to look and think about those dates! Mary Anne

http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/pa/delaware/cemeteries/mtlawn.txt http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/pa/delaware/cemeteries/stdenis.txt -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: 11/3/2006

Apparently, there are differences in the acceptability of bible records as fact....but, the essential one is if they were recorded as they happened, or did an individual, at a LATER date, enter the names and dates. In the first case, information recorded AS IT HAPPENED, is pretty good stuff, but anything recorded long after the fact is highly suspect...it's no different than family lore - often mis-remembered and then passed along as fact...and, we ALL have things like this in our families. So, in your case, it would seem important to know if the information recorded is in many different handwritings, or not? Many different hands is a good sign that things were written at the time they happened, not by great-great granddaughter, Effie, trying to 'full in the blanks" on a rainy afternoon. This approach was told me by a nationally respected genealogist, and it does make sense, doesn't it. Sandra ".....highly illustrated pages of family records, with the entries in the center of the page. The records pages in the two-column format appear to be the family bible of John Folkerth, first mayor of Dayton, and his wife, Peggy Huey. The other two pages appear to be from the bible of Albert Russell / Russel Huey Folkerth ( son of John and Peggy ) and his wife Ann Green." "One thing appears to be very wrong in the recorded information. John certainly did NOT come to Montgomery County in 1779, when he was 5 years old, as his father is found in Chester County, PA, from about 1770 to about 1787 as a witness to wills. It is possible that the last two digits of the date were transposed by the scribe, so that the date should have read 1797. More information is needed." -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: 11/3/2006

GREETINGS, AGAIN Here is the additional Huey info ... In 2005 Steve Koons sent me some information he had found on the web. This was Huey-related site, at the following URL; http://gedcom.surnames.com/linkswiler_jane/i0001315.htm The website contained the family structure indicated below and indicates that the information is taken from HUEY, John S., Genealogy Of The Huey Family; 1700-1908, Chicago, 8 Mar 1908; p. 17; book in possession of Jane Linkswiler, Phoenix, AZ. I note that some of this information conflicts with that presented in my earlier message about the family bible of John Folkerth and Peggy Huey. I have not tried to resolve these conflicts. Nor have I confirmed that the website is still active in 2006 … and besides that, I have not tried to contact the creator of the website. The material is presented simply for what it was in 2005. The information from the website follows … Robert 3Huey (Samuel 2,Robert 1) was born in N Churchtown, Lancaster Co, Pa 1757. Robert died 1839/1842 in Dayton, Montgomery Co, Oh. He married Agnes (Nancy) Elliott in Pa, before 1771. Agnes was born in Prob. Pa. Agnes died before 1842 in Prob. Dayton, Montgomery Co, Oh. Robert Huey and Agnes (Nancy) Elliott had the following children: i. Samuel 4Huey was born September 19, 1771. ii. Mary Huey was born in N Churchtown, Lancaster Co, Pa 1773. Mary died after 1812. She married John Riggs before 1811. iii. Margaret Huey was born in N Churchtown, Lancaster Co, Pa May 16, 1775. Margaret died March 21, 1865 in Dayton, Montgomery Co, Oh, at 89 years of age. She married John Christopher Fulkarth ( sic ) June 5, 1804. iv. Nancy (Agnes) Huey was born in N Churchtown, Lancaster Co, Pa February 24, 1778. Nancy died March 15, 1859 in Tipton, Ia, at 81 years of age. She married William Mason 1803. v. Thomas Elliott Huey was born February 22, 1780. vi. Albert Russell Huey was born in Waterbury, , Va 1782. Albert died 1864 in Dayton, Montgomery Co, Oh. He married Margaret Reed 1806. Margaret died February 2, 1859. This is the end of the material extracted from the website in 2005. DICK FOLKERTH Dallas, Texas

GREETINGS, ALL I have stumbled across a marriage between John Folkerth and Margaret Huey as part of my Folkerth researches. In October, 2000, Steve Koons of Kettering, OH, sent me six pages from old bibles that he had found in the Local History room of the Dayton, OH, main library. Four of the pages were in two-column format and the other two were highly illustrated pages of family records, with the entries in the center of the page. The records pages in the two-column format appear to be the family bible of John Folkerth, first mayor of Dayton, and his wife, Peggy Huey. The other two pages appear to be from the bible of Albert Russell / Russel Huey Folkerth ( son of John and Peggy ) and his wife Ann Green. I collaborated with other Folkerth researchers to transcribe these pages … verbatim … errors and all … using the punctuation as we found it, with periods often missing. The bible pages contain the name of John Folkerth’s mother. Her name appears to have been written originally as Pamelia but then the first letter was changed to read Camelia. So, John’s mother was Pamelia or Camelia Rafesnider. This is interesting and puzzling at the same time, since the will of John’s father, Christopher, names his wife as Margaret. Were Pamelia / Camelia and Margaret the same person ? Or, was Margaret a later wife of Christopher ? One thing appears to be very wrong in the recorded information. John certainly did NOT come to Montgomery County in 1779, when he was 5 years old, as his father is found in Chester County, PA, from about 1770 to about 1787 as a witness to wills. It is possible that the last two digits of the date were transposed by the scribe, so that the date should have read 1797. More information is needed. The information from the John Folkerth – Peggy Huey family bible follows, transcribed as faithfully as possible, errors and all; MARRIAGES; John Folkerth and Peggy Huey were married June the 6th1804 BIRTHS; John Folkerth Senior was born March the 11th 1774 Peggy Huey was born May the 16th 1775 Births of their children - Louisa Folkerth was born July the 6th 1805 - Albert Russell Huey Folkerth was born November the 17th 1806 - Rebecca Folkerth was born March the 5th 1809 - Christopher Folkerth was born January the 16th 1811 - John Folkerth was born June the 13th 1813 - Margaret Folkerth was born May 3, 1816 - Alexander Hamilton Folkerth was born May 18th 1820 DEATHS John Folkerth Jun died April 19th 1817. Christopher Folkerth died June 4th 1843 Alexander H. Folkerth Died April 24th 1849 John Folkerth senior Died January 5th, 1862 Peggy Folkerth died March 21st 1865 Then, recorded on an addition page of ‘Deaths’ we find the following bits of family history; - John Folkerth son of PCamelia Rafesnider & Christopher Folkerth ( of German Birth ) was born in Chester County Pennsyl March 11th1774. He came to Dayton, Montgomery Co Ohio March 21st 1779 where he lived untill his death 1862 he was a man of great physical strenght & rigorous intelect. He held the office of Magistrate in the town of his adoption during a period of 52 years. - Peggy Folkerth daughter of Agnes Elliot & Robert Huey was born May 16th 1775 on an entailed plantation owned by the family under the English Law near Church Town Pennsylvania. Her early years were spent near Martinsburg Virg. From there she imigrated to Kentucky and then again to Ohio in the year 1801. She was mar’d to John Folkerth in 1804 with whom she lived 58 years. - Robert Huey was born near Churchtown Pensyl 1750 & died near Chambersburg Montgomery Co Ohio Sept 1827, his wife Agnes Huey who was his senior five years died in Montgomery Co & was buried in Dayton October 1804. This is the end of the Folkerth – Huey bible transcription. I’ll put more Huey info in another message. DICK FOLKERTH Dallas, Texas

I looked at census and tax lists from the late 1600s, and there is no Price included among them....lots of Prices later, but nothing shows up in the early stuff. The early court records - pre 1710 - include the following Price names; Daniel and James were each involved in civil cases in 1700 David served on a jury in 1710. James bought 140 acres in NewTown in 1700-1703. So, perhaps these fellas could be looked upon as potential fathers for Edward I looked in area wills, hoping to find Edward in the will of a parent...the name appears in no Chester Co wills... I noted, while looking, a couple of Welsh given names with the surname Price.... Rice/Reece....but only 2.... the vast majority were good old English names - Roger, Samuel, William, etc. .... I doubt it was ever a Swedish name, with spelling somewhat changed....and, Radolphus is Latin in origin, so no help there................rats! Sandra " Does anyone know of a Price family that had an Edward Radolphus Price born about 1699 or earlier? He became a lawyer in Burlington, New Jersey, licensed 1722 and died 1753. Any Welsh or Swedish help most appreciated!" -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.25/515 - Release Date: 11/3/2006

Does anyone know of a Price family that had an Edward Radolphus Price born about 1699 or earlier? He became a lawyer in Burlington, New Jersey, licensed 1722 and died 1753. Any Welsh or Swedish help most appreciated! Nancy

John Crosby esq Thomas Tatnall Wm Shipley Joseph Harvey Wm Dell John Sharpless John Sharpless Jun Peter Dicks George Culin Andrew Mortonson Catharine Hendrickson Hance Torton Andrew Torton John Hendrickson John Orcher Margaret Morton Benjamin Taylor Israel Taylor Gabriel ffriend Andrew Morton Jun Joseph Tatlow Joshua Thompson Job Yarnal Thos Hale John Idon Thomas Woodward Mordecai Woodward John Worral John Tomkins Mathias Morton William Musgrove John Grant Joseph Carter John Taylor freemen Isaac Turnelity John Sperry Joseph Robenet -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.23/513 - Release Date: 11/2/2006

Andrew Moore Samuel Miller Amos Williams James Williams Samuel Jack Andrew Bowhing Erick Elerick Robert. Henry James Henry William Dirky James Swafford John Walber Mary Moore WM Grinson Jeremiah Wiliams William Mash John Robb Robert Boyd James Boyd Walter Steward Daniel Henderson John Minshale Richard Moore Adam Boyd Wm Mitchell Simeon Gregor Robert Sheels Mathew Woods James Kinkide ffrancis Woods William ffleming Hugh Cowing John Kinkide Elinor Jack Walter Gintty John Mongfomery Alexander Porter John Sheels John Henderson -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.23/513 - Release Date: 11/2/2006

Great Valley is near King of Prussia. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anna B" <elijahf1@earthlink.net> To: "sandra ferguson" <ferg@ntelos.net> Cc: <PA-Old-Chester-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 7:09 PM Subject: [PaOldC] David/Davis/Davies > Sandra, > I found this message quoted below very interesting as I have found very > similar info in my own Davies/Davis/David line. > > One question which arises for me is this: Where in Cardigan did Hugh Davis > come from? My Jenkin Davies in his 1747 Will left land in Cilcennin > Parish, Cardigan to a brother Evan who had returned to Wales. > A second question is simpler: where is the Great Valley? > Anna > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 11:16:01 -0500 > From: "Sandra Ferguson" <ferg@ntelos.net> > Subject: [PaOldC] David/Davis/Davies > To: "Mary Arnett" <mhfarnett@hotmail.com>, > <PA-Old-Chester-L@rootsweb.com> > > One thing to keep in mind, when researching these Welsh names.....in the > case of the surname David, you need also to extend your search to include > Davis and Davies. They are often used interchangeably... > In 1710, Hugh Davis , an ordained minister, arrived and settled in the > Great Valley.....Hugh was chosen, in 1711, as minister of the newly formed > Great Valley Baptist Church...they met in the home of Richard Miles, in > Radnor, till 1722 when they built a log structure in Tredyffrin. Hugh > Davis > was born in 1665, in Cardiganshire, baptized and ordained in Rydwilim. He > served the Great Valley Church till his death, Oct 13, 1753. > (This is an interesting tidbit I came across....St Peters Lutheran church > was erected in around 1770, and built on a couple of acres of land, on a > road called then Griffith Evans' Road.) > Sandra > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > PA-OLD-CHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Sandra, I found this message quoted below very interesting as I have found very similar info in my own Davies/Davis/David line. One question which arises for me is this: Where in Cardigan did Hugh Davis come from? My Jenkin Davies in his 1747 Will left land in Cilcennin Parish, Cardigan to a brother Evan who had returned to Wales. A second question is simpler: where is the Great Valley? Anna Message: 6 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 11:16:01 -0500 From: "Sandra Ferguson" <ferg@ntelos.net> Subject: [PaOldC] David/Davis/Davies To: "Mary Arnett" <mhfarnett@hotmail.com>, <PA-Old-Chester-L@rootsweb.com> One thing to keep in mind, when researching these Welsh names.....in the case of the surname David, you need also to extend your search to include Davis and Davies. They are often used interchangeably... In 1710, Hugh Davis , an ordained minister, arrived and settled in the Great Valley.....Hugh was chosen, in 1711, as minister of the newly formed Great Valley Baptist Church...they met in the home of Richard Miles, in Radnor, till 1722 when they built a log structure in Tredyffrin. Hugh Davis was born in 1665, in Cardiganshire, baptized and ordained in Rydwilim. He served the Great Valley Church till his death, Oct 13, 1753. (This is an interesting tidbit I came across....St Peters Lutheran church was erected in around 1770, and built on a couple of acres of land, on a road called then Griffith Evans' Road.) Sandra